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On October 20 2020 06:19 Liquid`Drone wrote: Hm is that a recent development? I remember as a tourist we got fleeced through virtue of having to pay dollars instead of pesos, but the actual corruption was non-existent. We tipped after one meal - and then I remember my dad was very conscious to hand over the money in an invisible manner. We even used a private cab and were caught by the police - but their treatment of us was fantastic - they asked to see our passports and ordered us a new official cab. (now, the cab drivers looked to be some of the more massively worried people I've ever seen, no doubt the punishment they were due for was in no way proportional to their crime - I'm just wondering about the corruption and bribes part because that was something I genuinely didn't see, at all. (But - been 15 years since I was there, so I'm not disputing that it happens now.)
I remember some airline executives got caught taking bribes from foreign investors a while back ~2011?
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On October 20 2020 06:19 Liquid`Drone wrote: Hm is that a recent development? I remember as a tourist we got fleeced through virtue of having to pay dollars instead of pesos, but the actual corruption was non-existent. We tipped after one meal - and then I remember my dad was very conscious to hand over the money in an invisible manner. We even used a private cab and were caught by the police - but their treatment of us was fantastic - they asked to see our passports and ordered us a new official cab. (now, the cab drivers looked to be some of the more massively worried people I've ever seen, no doubt the punishment they were due for was in no way proportional to their crime - I'm just wondering about the corruption and bribes part because that was something I genuinely didn't see, at all. (But - been 15 years since I was there, so I'm not disputing that it happens now.)
If you don't understand spanish, or remotely look hispanic, they don't bother. But if they assume you do, it's pretty bad. I went three times last year, 2/3 I was bribed, and I'm mainly talking about government officials. The people themselves are amazing, and love tourists.
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Gratz!!! Huge victory that was incredibly hard fought. Amazing work!
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Wow awesome, here is hoping they do a amazing job rewriting it!
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Good luck. Sounds like you're headed down from where you are currently GDP/PPP wise if those interviews (from the BBC article) are anything to go by. People would rather drag everyone into the poor house to be equal than improve the economy as a whole so the poor are now less poor (objectively speaking). Let's see what you guys choose.
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On October 27 2020 20:45 Wegandi wrote:Good luck. Sounds like you're headed down from where you are currently GDP/PPP wise if those interviews (from the BBC article) are anything to go by. People would rather drag everyone into the poor house to be equal than improve the economy as a whole so the poor are now less poor (objectively speaking). Let's see what you guys choose.
It's the path of Argentina 2.0, I hope to be wrong. Such as the arrogant Venezuelans said "we are not gonna be Cuba", and Argentina said "we are not gonna be Venezuela", Chile is following the downward past of latin american socialism.
That said, people still have a chance to reject the new constitution. I'm optimistic the constitution will end up being somewhat the same and approved, being just a worthless process in the end that helped some people feel they achieved something. I do find sad so many people have been sold that a new constitution will solve their problems. That is simply not true.
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Interestingly now that Maduro has solidified his power as a dictator, he has stopped even pretending to be socialist. Makes the who "capitalist conspiracy" BS propaganda he was promoting even more laughable.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/dollars-flood-venezuela-maduro-abandons-093630456.html
Sanctions clearly have not worked because he is fine if his people starve and he can stay ultra wealthy off all the drug and illegal gold mining. I'm not sure how the people ever remove him at this point.
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lol get a grip
he is a socialist, just like Chavez, and they both got and stayed in power with the support of every left leaning organization and politican in latin america for the last 20 years (Michelle Bachelet, Mr and Ms. Kirscher, Correa, Evo Morales, FARC, etc etc etc) Last minute changes on anything do not alter this fact, specially the people who supported his predecessor now saying "it wasn't real socialism" just to try to clear away from the disastrous and inevitable consequences of the policies they advocate for
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On March 01 2021 22:55 GoTuNk! wrote: lol get a grip
he is a socialist, just like Chavez, and they both got and stayed in power with the support of every left leaning organization and politican in latin america for the last 20 years (Michelle Bachelet, Mr and Ms. Kirscher, Correa, Evo Morales, FARC, etc etc etc) Last minute changes on anything do not alter this fact, specially the people who supported his predecessor now saying "it wasn't real socialism" just to try to clear away from the disastrous and inevitable consequences of the policies they advocate for I dont think you understand what a socialist is sadly if you think Maduro is one. It kind of makes sense with you since you are far right and basically just think socialism means bad or authoritarian but it does not.
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On March 01 2021 23:15 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2021 22:55 GoTuNk! wrote: lol get a grip
he is a socialist, just like Chavez, and they both got and stayed in power with the support of every left leaning organization and politican in latin america for the last 20 years (Michelle Bachelet, Mr and Ms. Kirscher, Correa, Evo Morales, FARC, etc etc etc) Last minute changes on anything do not alter this fact, specially the people who supported his predecessor now saying "it wasn't real socialism" just to try to clear away from the disastrous and inevitable consequences of the policies they advocate for I dont think you understand what a socialist is sadly if you think Maduro is one. It kind of makes sense with you since you are far right and basically just think socialism means bad or authoritarian but it does not.
Socialism is giving control of large sectors of the economy to the government. When that happens, without political opposition, the government ends up taking control on all aspects of economy and therefore life. Maduro is the inevitable consequence of un opposed socialism. Pretending the first without the 2nd is like saying you are in favor of smoking, just not in favor of lung cancer.
I have the long standing list of Chavez and Maduro allies, belonging to every socialist movement and political leader in south america to back my arguments. Jumping ship the last 5 years doesn't count.
I saw this coming 15-20 years ago, just like it is happening in Argentina right now and I predicted would happen at least 5 years ago in multiple threads on this forum, this one included. Of course, the naysayers will at some point say "Argentina has never tried real socialism", it's just "corruption" or something; the same people that supported giving politians unlimited power and then wonder why there is "corruption", the same way they wonder why the economy gets ruined when they give control to large parts of the economy to politicians.
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On March 01 2021 23:48 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2021 23:15 JimmiC wrote:On March 01 2021 22:55 GoTuNk! wrote: lol get a grip
he is a socialist, just like Chavez, and they both got and stayed in power with the support of every left leaning organization and politican in latin america for the last 20 years (Michelle Bachelet, Mr and Ms. Kirscher, Correa, Evo Morales, FARC, etc etc etc) Last minute changes on anything do not alter this fact, specially the people who supported his predecessor now saying "it wasn't real socialism" just to try to clear away from the disastrous and inevitable consequences of the policies they advocate for I dont think you understand what a socialist is sadly if you think Maduro is one. It kind of makes sense with you since you are far right and basically just think socialism means bad or authoritarian but it does not. Socialism is giving control of large sectors of the economy to the government. When that happens, without political opposition, the government ends up taking control on all aspects of economy and therefore life. Maduro is the inevitable consequence of un opposed socialism. Pretending the first without the 2nd is like saying you are in favor of smoking, just not in favor of lung cancer. I have the long standing list of Chavez and Maduro allies, belonging to every socialist movement and political leader in south america to back my arguments. Jumping ship the last 5 years doesn't count. I saw this coming 15-20 years ago, just like it is happening in Argentina right now and I predicted would happen at least 5 years ago in multiple threads on this forum, this one included. Of course, the naysayers will at some point say "Argentina has never tried real socialism", it's just "corruption" or something; the same people that supported giving politians unlimited power and then wonder why there is "corruption", the same way they wonder why the economy gets ruined when they give control to large parts of the economy to politicians. Again you are wrong, there is socialism in Europe, to some degree up here in Canada, and as long as democracy is intact it works exceptionally well.
In SA you do have some historical context, but the same can be said for the right. It is authoritarianism you should be worried about not socialism. Chavez is a bit interesting because he was a populist more than a socialist (in the same way Trump was a populist and not conservative) both also didn't like democracy if it did not agree with them. The US was lucky enough to get him out after one term, Venezuela was not, but they had people worse than Chavez right before who were "conservatives" so it is not surprising.
SA in general has so much corruption in government, left and right, I'm not sure how that gets fixed because swaps of government switch who is benefiting but do not make a dent into the overall corruption levels.
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Norway28239 Posts
Ya, Bolsonaro is worse than Trump. Not just Covid handling, he's a worse person, too.
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I'm not sure if he is a worse person or just has more power and corruption being more acceptable. But ya, he's doing worse things. Brazil thought they were voting to get out of the corruption of their previous government and instead that stayed at least the same and everything else was worse!
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So does this mean he can run again, or is there a limit?
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Yes, currently he can run again. There is a limit, but the constitution reads (my translation) "The president ... may be reelected for a single subsequent period", which is interpreted to mean a third mandate is fine so long and it's not consecutive. I personally find it extremely ambiguous .
Of course, the headline is slightly misleading. Essentially, the supreme court judge declared a mistrial because the court that ruled the case was not the correct one. Lula wasn't declared innocent, he will have to go to trial again, but with how slow the judicial system is here, I doubt it will happen before the 2022 election, so yeah, he will be able to run.
I don't quite understand if it's possible for the declaration of mistrial to be annuled, but if there's something to prevent Lula from running that would be it. Sadly, assuming Lula runs, this is the single best thing that could have happened for Bolsonaro's chances of getting reelected.
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Here is an article on what Biden is doing in regards to Maduro in Venezuela. The opinion of the writer is that Biden is doing the right thing, and it is from the Miami herald who is very anti Maduro. American Venezuelans who many live in Florida voted Trump much like Cubans out of fear that Biden would support dictators in their home country's.
I'm not sure I agree that he is doing the "right" thing because I'm really not sure what that is. I think clung Maduro a dictator is right because he clearly is. I think giving the 300k+ Venezuelans displaced work visas was the right thing.
After that I don't know. Economic pressure sounds right, but it is not working. Maduro can make make more.than enough money from the illicit drug trade and the illegal gold mining (whichnis horrible for the environment and the people are treated like slaves by the gangs who run them and pay the generals and maduro). I don't see the US changing their drug policy so I don't see a realistic way to stem that flow of cash. Therefor I feel like the economic sanctions end up disproportionately hurting the people and do not do anything to shake Maduro power, in a way they help him since people are just trying to survive and Maduro has tied food support to only people who "support" him. It has also caused the gangs, collectivos to have way more power. He can kills thousands of "capitalists" in the streets every year with his "police" no trial, 10-20 (George Floyds a day and!!!)and millions of "capitalists" can be forced to leave with nothing or starve to death every year. But some how it just keeps getting worse and there is more and more "capitalists" to kill and drive out.
Invading would be even worse for the people.
So what is left? Is there any effective way to remove a dictator? As long as China and the US are willing to prop up dictators who choose them over the other guy I don't think so.
Ending the "drug war" and revolutionaryly thinking about attacking addiction instead of the drugs, making the drug trade not a trillion dollar unregulated industry would help enormously. But societally we seem stuck on thinking that making things illegal will make them go away and focusing on the symptom (drugs) and not the cause (addiction).
The global community working together might work, but the two super powers won't ever do that. One is a dictatorship who supports any dictatorship regardless of political leaning as long as they oppose the US. And the other supports dictators as long as it is economicaly beneficial for them to do so and they don't support the other guys.
So basically my conclusion is there is nothing realistic to be done to help the people. It is not a left right issue, because none of the people in power actually care or belive in that (speaking about Venezuela, China, US and others). The people at the top all care what is best for them and the rest is just distraction to get the rest of us mad about the wrong things. There is no good guys here, just people who want more power and wealth for themselves.
I've been accused of being naive and overly optimistic, I see no way this gets better other then an "act of.god", but when Chavez died, it got worse (or continued on the path depending on your perspective), NK having one die did nothing for the people. Coups lead to a different dictator and a different very small group of elite and a new scapegoat that are the reasons why the leader "needs to keep absolute power and is stopping the people from good lives" of course that group never gets defeated, and always is powerful enough to keep the people down but never powerful enough to keep the leader and his inner circle from living extravagantly amazing lives. This is true of every dictator regardless of "politics" and it is time to stop pretending that left or right matters when it comes to dictators. It is just bullshit they use to distract from the fact that they only care about their own wealth and are willing to step on millions to keep and increase it.
Maduro, Xi, putin, rouhani, MBS, al-assad, Kim, and so on and so on. All claim to be fighting for their people against various scapegoats but it all the exact same, that enemy only hurts the masses but somehow allows them fantastic power and wealth. It is sad how that list is so long and so far from complete.
https://ca.yahoo.com/news/biden-makes-moves-venezuela-lead-231608466.html
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One of the few things i can think about which have some small effect would be personal sanctions on top officials and their families. No longer being able to send your children to western universities is something that actually touches them. Not being able to invest their ill-gotten gains in a lot of countries is also something which annoys them. Not a huge thing, but if you want any effects, you need to do something that hurts or inconveniences the people making the decisions, not the people who have no choice anyways.
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