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On July 20 2020 04:24 Waxangel wrote:Fuck it, time to unban Rodya
Lol. Did he get permabanned? I never really saw the guy after Serral won the world championship, just figured he disappeared in shame. He had a lot of interesting things to say about foreigners and dictionaries.
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If i'm not wrong this tournament win makes Serral the hightest earning sc2 player of all time, surpassing Maru who's 2nd.
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On July 20 2020 05:56 SharkStarcraft wrote: If i'm not wrong this tournament win makes Serral the hightest earning sc2 player of all time, surpassing Maru who's 2nd.
Yes.
The GOAT is back on track again. Maru wanted to avoid the humiliation once again and let Cure to face the Master.
Its kinda funny when Serral has a good day, there is maybe 1-2 players in the world that can stop him. And that has been the case for now 2-3 years. Of course he has bad days too, but even then he seems to be almost always top-4 in every tournament still. People are having all the excuses why this or that player "is not playing seriously" when they dunk against Serral. Now I finally think they are actually right; When one has no or very slim chance to win, they dont take it seriously anymore.
Funniest thing has been that now casters are accused to "get paid to praise foreingers". Guess what, Koreans dominated SC2 for like 8 years. They have had their share of praise. Now there are actually foreingers that do better than them, and we should just be silent and bow to the statue of "insert Maru here" all the time, even when they dont perform well ? Arent there Korean casts in almost every tournament nowadays too ? Maybe peeps should go watch their stream to get more "neutral bias" casting.
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Do these ESL Points and weekly cups add up to anything? Is there like a blizzcon event at the end of the year?
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On July 20 2020 08:20 HelpMeGetBetter wrote: Do these ESL Points and weekly cups add up to anything? Is there like a blizzcon event at the end of the year? https://pro.eslgaming.com/tour/sc2/ranking IEM Katowice 2021 is "blizzcon" now.
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Haven't been following SC2 for years, only got back into because of covid.
My thoughts:
Protoss vs Zerg seems impossible. Unless Protoss wins with an all-in or strategy that catches the Zerg off guard, they cannot win at all. Ling/Roach/Ravager will destroy anything Protoss throws at Zergs, even if Protoss goes for high tech builds. It's very hard to harass the Zerg economy as well, outside early adepts or oracle, which means Zerg can just mass expand and build up an economy very very quickly.
Terran vs Zerg. I don't know why the top Korean Terrans were getting smashed by the EU Zergs. Was it because it was online? Terran needs way more micro than Zerg, constantly dropping, stutter step, splitting, protecting medivacs etc... Whereas Zerg can annihilate a Terran army with attack move units such as ling/bane. Which means when there is lag/delay, it cripples the Terran way more than Zerg.
I am assuming the struggles were due to lag, or are the EU Zergs that good?
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Northern Ireland20676 Posts
On July 20 2020 09:13 Highways wrote: Haven't been following SC2 for years, only got back into because of covid.
My thoughts:
Protoss vs Zerg seems impossible. Unless Protoss wins with an all-in or strategy that catches the Zerg off guard, they cannot win at all. Ling/Roach/Ravager will destroy anything Protoss throws at Zergs, even if Protoss goes for high tech builds. It's very hard to harass the Zerg economy as well, outside early adepts or oracle, which means Zerg can just mass expand and build up an economy very very quickly.
Terran vs Zerg. I don't know why the top Korean Terrans were getting smashed by the EU Zergs. Was it because it was online? Terran needs way more micro than Zerg, constantly dropping, stutter step, splitting, protecting medivacs etc... Whereas Zerg can annihilate a Terran army with attack move units such as ling/bane. Which means when there is lag/delay, it cripples the Terran way more than Zerg.
I am assuming the struggles were due to lag, or are the EU Zergs that good? Welcome back!
Didn’t take you long to get up to speed with how PvZ works largely. On the plus side, I think across all matchups we’re at a pretty good time in SC2 history. At least as a viewer I think all the other matchups go from passable to good.
Latency wasn’t ideal, but Serral and Reynor are generally top tier Zergs, the former won Blizzcon year before last and the latter was runner up last time.
Those two are pretty exceptional players (check out Serral’s record especially on liquipedia), they can generally go toe to toe in offline conditions with anyone if they’re playing well.
Returning after breaks is strange. I came back and Gumiho had won a GSL, ByuN returned from exile to win a GSL and a Blizzcon and a foreigner had won Blizzcon :O
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@Highways -- are you basing this solely off the games you saw from Trap today, cuz if so, that isn't the best sample size for approaching PvZ.. =p
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This tournament feels a bit like GSL Season 1, where TY's potentially 'stronger' opponents got knocked out by people he ended up beating pretty easily, leading to a rather underwhelming final.
Trap really showed up against Reynor after looking somewhat shaky in the group stage.
It's a pity that Cure didn't after playing the best series of the tournament against Maru.
Not sure if someone posted this already, but I also just realised Trap somehow went through the entire tournament without facing a single Korean opponent: Clem, Has, Clem rematch, Heromarine, Reynor and Serral
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On July 20 2020 10:56 FuRong wrote: This tournament feels a bit like GSL Season 1, where TY's potentially 'stronger' opponents got knocked out by people he ended up beating pretty easily, leading to a rather underwhelming final.
Trap really showed up against Reynor though after looking somewhat shaky in the group stage.
Not sure if someone posted this already, but I also just realised Trap somehow went through the entire tournament without facing a single Korean opponent: Clem, Has, Clem rematch, Heromarine, Reynor and Serral Fair. Although dismantling Reynor is a feat by itself right now. And he was able to surprise and outplay Serral in the first game.
Great tournament overall considering the circumstances. Serral had a well deserved win beating out Inno / TY / Cure and Trap in decisive fashion.
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On July 20 2020 11:21 Husyelt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 10:56 FuRong wrote: This tournament feels a bit like GSL Season 1, where TY's potentially 'stronger' opponents got knocked out by people he ended up beating pretty easily, leading to a rather underwhelming final.
Trap really showed up against Reynor though after looking somewhat shaky in the group stage.
Not sure if someone posted this already, but I also just realised Trap somehow went through the entire tournament without facing a single Korean opponent: Clem, Has, Clem rematch, Heromarine, Reynor and Serral Fair. Although dismantling Reynor is a feat by itself right now. And he was able to surprise and outplay Serral in the first game. Great tournament overall considering the circumstances. Serral had a well deserved win beating out Inno / TY / Cure and Trap in decisive fashion.
Yeah going through last season's GSL champion, finalist, semi-finalist as well as one of the best Protoss players in the world is no mean feat.
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A bit late - but yay Serral! <3 Good to see him prove the doubters wrong.
How come neither the regional nor the global DH Masters are featured on TL's frontpage? No prediction article or results.
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Czech Republic12115 Posts
On July 20 2020 07:25 Starcloud wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 05:56 SharkStarcraft wrote: If i'm not wrong this tournament win makes Serral the hightest earning sc2 player of all time, surpassing Maru who's 2nd. + Show Spoiler + Yes.
The GOAT is back on track again. Maru wanted to avoid the humiliation once again and let Cure to face the Master.
Its kinda funny when Serral has a good day, there is maybe 1-2 players in the world that can stop him. And that has been the case for now 2-3 years. Of course he has bad days too, but even then he seems to be almost always top-4 in every tournament still. People are having all the excuses why this or that player "is not playing seriously" when they dunk against Serral. Now I finally think they are actually right; When one has no or very slim chance to win, they dont take it seriously anymore.
Funniest thing has been that now casters are accused to "get paid to praise foreingers". Guess what, Koreans dominated SC2 for like 8 years. They have had their share of praise. Now there are actually foreingers that do better than them, and we should just be silent and bow to the statue of "insert Maru here" all the time, even when they dont perform well ? Arent there Korean casts in almost every tournament nowadays too ? Maybe peeps should go watch their stream to get more "neutral bias" casting. NO, people like me expect a professional casting from the official source where they handle both sides equally. That's called professional casting. People don't like if casters put too much their bias towards something that should be neutral. e.g. if you're watching a football match (say Arsenal vs Real Madrid) and you hear the person rambling on and on and on about Arsenal while Real Madrid is leading. And the same shit happens when RM won. If I wanted biased casting I would have opened a community casting stream, not the official one
And yes, with the amount of praise people start spreading rumors. Maybe the casters who imply they're professional should start working as professionals and leave their own bias for other time.
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On July 20 2020 19:29 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 07:25 Starcloud wrote:On July 20 2020 05:56 SharkStarcraft wrote: If i'm not wrong this tournament win makes Serral the hightest earning sc2 player of all time, surpassing Maru who's 2nd. + Show Spoiler + Yes.
The GOAT is back on track again. Maru wanted to avoid the humiliation once again and let Cure to face the Master.
Its kinda funny when Serral has a good day, there is maybe 1-2 players in the world that can stop him. And that has been the case for now 2-3 years. Of course he has bad days too, but even then he seems to be almost always top-4 in every tournament still. People are having all the excuses why this or that player "is not playing seriously" when they dunk against Serral. Now I finally think they are actually right; When one has no or very slim chance to win, they dont take it seriously anymore.
Funniest thing has been that now casters are accused to "get paid to praise foreingers". Guess what, Koreans dominated SC2 for like 8 years. They have had their share of praise. Now there are actually foreingers that do better than them, and we should just be silent and bow to the statue of "insert Maru here" all the time, even when they dont perform well ? Arent there Korean casts in almost every tournament nowadays too ? Maybe peeps should go watch their stream to get more "neutral bias" casting. NO, people like me expect a professional casting from the official source where they handle both sides equally. That's called professional casting. People don't like if casters put too much their bias towards something that should be neutral. e.g. if you're watching a football match (say Arsenal vs Real Madrid) and you hear the person rambling on and on and on about Arsenal while Real Madrid is leading. And the same shit happens when RM won. If I wanted biased casting I would have opened a community casting stream, not the official one And yes, with the amount of praise people start spreading rumors. Maybe the casters who imply they're professional should start working as professionals and leave their own bias for other time. Have you ever *watched* football?!
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Czech Republic12115 Posts
On July 20 2020 19:35 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 19:29 deacon.frost wrote:On July 20 2020 07:25 Starcloud wrote:On July 20 2020 05:56 SharkStarcraft wrote: If i'm not wrong this tournament win makes Serral the hightest earning sc2 player of all time, surpassing Maru who's 2nd. + Show Spoiler + Yes.
The GOAT is back on track again. Maru wanted to avoid the humiliation once again and let Cure to face the Master.
Its kinda funny when Serral has a good day, there is maybe 1-2 players in the world that can stop him. And that has been the case for now 2-3 years. Of course he has bad days too, but even then he seems to be almost always top-4 in every tournament still. People are having all the excuses why this or that player "is not playing seriously" when they dunk against Serral. Now I finally think they are actually right; When one has no or very slim chance to win, they dont take it seriously anymore.
Funniest thing has been that now casters are accused to "get paid to praise foreingers". Guess what, Koreans dominated SC2 for like 8 years. They have had their share of praise. Now there are actually foreingers that do better than them, and we should just be silent and bow to the statue of "insert Maru here" all the time, even when they dont perform well ? Arent there Korean casts in almost every tournament nowadays too ? Maybe peeps should go watch their stream to get more "neutral bias" casting. NO, people like me expect a professional casting from the official source where they handle both sides equally. That's called professional casting. People don't like if casters put too much their bias towards something that should be neutral. e.g. if you're watching a football match (say Arsenal vs Real Madrid) and you hear the person rambling on and on and on about Arsenal while Real Madrid is leading. And the same shit happens when RM won. If I wanted biased casting I would have opened a community casting stream, not the official one And yes, with the amount of praise people start spreading rumors. Maybe the casters who imply they're professional should start working as professionals and leave their own bias for other time. Have you ever *watched* football?! Like, for over 20 years and counting?
Edit> and besides the international games(meaning Cze team vs whoever, be it ChL or international matches) the casting in our country was quite neutral. Sure, some had their favorite boys/teams to talk about, but it wasn't as much concentrated as in SC2.
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Northern Ireland20676 Posts
Any time a British club was in Europe, especially going back 10-15 years the commentary was always at least slightly skewed towards the British team. From listening to podcast interviews with Martin Tyler and Clive Tyldesley they’d admit to a bit of that, and they’re two of the bigger hitters over here.
Especially when we watched less European football in general people were more familiar by far with the teams they watched that week, the supporters of that team + those neutrals who wanted to see a British team advance would all root for that team and the commentary would reflect why the audience were tuning in in the first place.
Never got obnoxious, especially if the British team happened to be the underdog but it was there and does add some flavour.
They’re in the entertainment business, not fulfilling some sacred civic duty. The stream peaked at what, 50k? With a cursory glance at Twitch chat it’s pretty obvious a lot of them aren’t exactly hardcore consumers of all SC2 content/knowledgable players, some are fans of particular streamers etc etc.
There’s a pretty broad church to please there, don’t think it gives a pass on bias if it’s over the top. Equally I think it’s grossly unfair to accuse casters of being paid to only hype up foreign players.
Doesn’t mean they can’t do a better job either. I did watch a lot of the event and perhaps missed some stuff but honestly if I was a new fan, or a returning one after a lay-off (as I was once in life) I don’t think I’d have known that Trap made 2 of the last 3 GSL finals and really I think that’s a problem for framing his matches. One of if not the best all-round Protoss currently and you wouldn’t actually know he was of that calibre, which is one example of exceeding catering to a foreign audience and leaving too much potential hype out.
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Don't know why you are so mad at casters. Watch the interviews from basically any Korean pro. The answer to the questions "who is strongest" is pretty much always the same. I think Trap said something like "I hope I face Cure, cause I don't want to play Serral"
Footi: Every sports commentator goes instant hype when Messi does Messi stuff .... Why would it be different when Serral does Serral stuff?
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Dominican Republic587 Posts
On July 20 2020 09:13 Highways wrote: Haven't been following SC2 for years, only got back into because of covid.
My thoughts:
Protoss vs Zerg seems impossible. Unless Protoss wins with an all-in or strategy that catches the Zerg off guard, they cannot win at all. Ling/Roach/Ravager will destroy anything Protoss throws at Zergs, even if Protoss goes for high tech builds. It's very hard to harass the Zerg economy as well, outside early adepts or oracle, which means Zerg can just mass expand and build up an economy very very quickly.
Terran vs Zerg. I don't know why the top Korean Terrans were getting smashed by the EU Zergs. Was it because it was online? Terran needs way more micro than Zerg, constantly dropping, stutter step, splitting, protecting medivacs etc... Whereas Zerg can annihilate a Terran army with attack move units such as ling/bane. Which means when there is lag/delay, it cripples the Terran way more than Zerg.
I am assuming the struggles were due to lag, or are the EU Zergs that good?
agree
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On July 20 2020 19:29 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2020 07:25 Starcloud wrote:On July 20 2020 05:56 SharkStarcraft wrote: If i'm not wrong this tournament win makes Serral the hightest earning sc2 player of all time, surpassing Maru who's 2nd. + Show Spoiler + Yes.
The GOAT is back on track again. Maru wanted to avoid the humiliation once again and let Cure to face the Master.
Its kinda funny when Serral has a good day, there is maybe 1-2 players in the world that can stop him. And that has been the case for now 2-3 years. Of course he has bad days too, but even then he seems to be almost always top-4 in every tournament still. People are having all the excuses why this or that player "is not playing seriously" when they dunk against Serral. Now I finally think they are actually right; When one has no or very slim chance to win, they dont take it seriously anymore.
Funniest thing has been that now casters are accused to "get paid to praise foreingers". Guess what, Koreans dominated SC2 for like 8 years. They have had their share of praise. Now there are actually foreingers that do better than them, and we should just be silent and bow to the statue of "insert Maru here" all the time, even when they dont perform well ? Arent there Korean casts in almost every tournament nowadays too ? Maybe peeps should go watch their stream to get more "neutral bias" casting. NO, people like me expect a professional casting from the official source where they handle both sides equally. That's called professional casting. People don't like if casters put too much their bias towards something that should be neutral. e.g. if you're watching a football match (say Arsenal vs Real Madrid) and you hear the person rambling on and on and on about Arsenal while Real Madrid is leading. And the same shit happens when RM won. If I wanted biased casting I would have opened a community casting stream, not the official one And yes, with the amount of praise people start spreading rumors. Maybe the casters who imply they're professional should start working as professionals and leave their own bias for other time.
Lmao dude, you really live in your own beatiful version of reality. As others have pointed out, football casting is actually really biased most of the time and for many fans that's part of the appeal.
You're so far into denial about the current state of the Foreigner / Korean power balance that you stopped bashing the players and switched to 'rumors' about the casters. There was tons of praise for Inno / Maru / Trap this weekend. DeMuslim is a huge Terran fanboy and is in awe about their play all the time. If anything this cast was a bit Terran biased with ZombieGrub, Demu and Nathanias. Nathanias also whines about Zerg all the time (in a lighthearted way) and as all Zergs in this tourney were foreigners, that also could not have been the 'tons of praise' you were talking about.
And yes people praise Reynor and Serral a lot, but that is well deserved. What should they do if Serral smashes Cure so badly that it looks like a ladder game against a 6.4k EU Terran? Go on about how he is the GSL Finalist?? Of course they praise Serral for his ultra dominant play.
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On July 20 2020 21:11 Wombat_NI wrote: Any time a British club was in Europe, especially going back 10-15 years the commentary was always at least slightly skewed towards the British team. From listening to podcast interviews with Martin Tyler and Clive Tyldesley they’d admit to a bit of that, and they’re two of the bigger hitters over here.
Especially when we watched less European football in general people were more familiar by far with the teams they watched that week, the supporters of that team + those neutrals who wanted to see a British team advance would all root for that team and the commentary would reflect why the audience were tuning in in the first place.
Never got obnoxious, especially if the British team happened to be the underdog but it was there and does add some flavour.
They’re in the entertainment business, not fulfilling some sacred civic duty. The stream peaked at what, 50k? With a cursory glance at Twitch chat it’s pretty obvious a lot of them aren’t exactly hardcore consumers of all SC2 content/knowledgable players, some are fans of particular streamers etc etc.
There’s a pretty broad church to please there, don’t think it gives a pass on bias if it’s over the top. Equally I think it’s grossly unfair to accuse casters of being paid to only hype up foreign players.
Doesn’t mean they can’t do a better job either. I did watch a lot of the event and perhaps missed some stuff but honestly if I was a new fan, or a returning one after a lay-off (as I was once in life) I don’t think I’d have known that Trap made 2 of the last 3 GSL finals and really I think that’s a problem for framing his matches. One of if not the best all-round Protoss currently and you wouldn’t actually know he was of that calibre, which is one example of exceeding catering to a foreign audience and leaving too much potential hype out. Is it tho? Nobody in the live thread gave him a snowball's chance in hell vs. Serral, even after beating Reynor soundly. And absolutely nobody was happy with the games as they happened. It was either a successful timing attack or a failed timing attack from both sides and the games were utterly forgettable, probably even if there is a die-hard ZvP fan out there, he wasn't impressed by that series. I mean, I don't think there is much doubt that Trap is currently the best or second-best (maybe Parting is sharper) protoss in the world, but the race is currently in the dumpster and reaching the finals was already an amazing feat.
Everybody was expecting Reynor to thrash him with no difficulty, but Trap had some very clever builds and Reynor didn't do his homework and got solidly schooled that he shouldn't underestimate top Koreans, even if their race is currently awful.
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