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On August 12 2019 20:40 sneirac wrote: Huh replacing the guy that failed with one full season of experience with someone with zero full seasons of experience, did not expect that
yeah but thats very "Red Bull'esque". This unfortunately can ruin career for Albon too.
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On August 12 2019 20:58 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 12 2019 20:40 sneirac wrote: Huh replacing the guy that failed with one full season of experience with someone with zero full seasons of experience, did not expect that yeah but thats very "Red Bull'esque". This unfortunately can ruin career for Albon too.
Yepp, he's thrown to the sharks now. Simultaneously, if Gasly suddenly starts producing results at Toro Rosso, then they'll be forced to find out exactly why the Red Bull car is so much more difficult to drive.
Personally I think it looks like an extremely twitchy car that only rewards the handful of people whos able to drive it, but rewards them well when they can. Gasly seemed almost scared to push it in any capacity, sitting behind other drivers lap after lap that Max passed in seconds.
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Oh man.... I was expecting kvyat but I guess Albon makes sense for evaluating the best choice for 2020. There wasn't any real chance that Gasly was making it to the end of the season though, not with Ferrari within reach in the constructors.
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As a fan of Albon, I'm both excited but also pretty concerned. He's clearly quite talented just like a lot of these younger guys (Norris, Russell, Verstappen, Leclerc, etc.) but I just don't want the Red Bull meat grinder to get him like it has with so many others. With that team it either goes really well like it has with Verstappen, Vettel, and Ricciardo, or it goes horribly.
Albon has had some pretty good performances given he'd never even driven an F1 car before testing and got 6th place in a race that also happened to be the first time he ever drove an F1 car in the rain. Pretty crazy. This Red Bull promotion is even crazier considering his previous career trajectory. He was supposed to be in Formula E, and last year almost didn't have a F2 seat, which would have killed his career, but was given a seat by the DAMS team principal despite Albon having limited backing.
But yeah, something had to be done about Gasly. He's literally costing Red Bull millions in prize money right now since they are third in the standings when they have the car to be second easily with two consistent drivers. Ferrari isn't quite in the mix with Red Bull and Mercedes but Verstappen can't outscore both Vettel and Leclerc by himself.
Curious to see what will happen with Bottas. He was Bottas 2.0 for a bit but has now regressed back to Bottas 1.0. He's costing Mercedes quite a few points and is collecting a smaller proportion of points versus Hamilton. There was a comparison article between Bottas and Rosberg, and Rosberg used to get between 45-50% of the team's points compared to Hamilton whereas Bottas gets only around 40%, and last year was even worse. He does seem to get along with Hamilton and not cause trouble though so I imagine that will be a factor in their decision. Bottas tends to have strong starts to seasons and weaker second halves so it could get worse for him.
I want to see Ocon racing again next year. He's too good to be on the sidelines. Either give him Bottas' seat or let him sign with a different team. Put him in Grosjean's Haas seat then let him and Magnussen piss everyone off. That'd be fun.
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I think it is a mistake to promote Albon this early but I very much hope I'm proved wrong. I don't think the RB is the second best car at all, only that Max has been in ridiculously good form this year. Red Bull could really do with taking a look outside of the programme they currently use. They've been quite fortunate in the drivers that have been developed but after Verstappen they have nothing really now. I really want to see Russell get a decent car, although it's hard to shine at Williams he has looked great.
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On August 13 2019 11:52 Ben... wrote: As a fan of Albon, I'm both excited but also pretty concerned. He's clearly quite talented just like a lot of these younger guys (Norris, Russell, Verstappen, Leclerc, etc.) but I just don't want the Red Bull meat grinder to get him like it has with so many others. With that team it either goes really well like it has with Verstappen, Vettel, and Ricciardo, or it goes horribly.
Albon has had some pretty good performances given he'd never even driven an F1 car before testing and got 6th place in a race that also happened to be the first time he ever drove an F1 car in the rain. Pretty crazy. This Red Bull promotion is even crazier considering his previous career trajectory. He was supposed to be in Formula E, and last year almost didn't have a F2 seat, which would have killed his career, but was given a seat by the DAMS team principal despite Albon having limited backing.
But yeah, something had to be done about Gasly. He's literally costing Red Bull millions in prize money right now since they are third in the standings when they have the car to be second easily with two consistent drivers. Ferrari isn't quite in the mix with Red Bull and Mercedes but Verstappen can't outscore both Vettel and Leclerc by himself.
Curious to see what will happen with Bottas. He was Bottas 2.0 for a bit but has now regressed back to Bottas 1.0. He's costing Mercedes quite a few points and is collecting a smaller proportion of points versus Hamilton. There was a comparison article between Bottas and Rosberg, and Rosberg used to get between 45-50% of the team's points compared to Hamilton whereas Bottas gets only around 40%, and last year was even worse. He does seem to get along with Hamilton and not cause trouble though so I imagine that will be a factor in their decision. Bottas tends to have strong starts to seasons and weaker second halves so it could get worse for him.
I want to see Ocon racing again next year. He's too good to be on the sidelines. Either give him Bottas' seat or let him sign with a different team. Put him in Grosjean's Haas seat then let him and Magnussen piss everyone off. That'd be fun.
This is a completely honest question that I have yet to see anyone reply to me. Why is Ocon "too good to be on the sidelines"?
From the question you may get that I completely oppose that notion xD but I would really like to understand why have I seen this written a couple of times accross internet F1 forums.
As a side note, Ocon will probably not get a Mercedes seat (unless it is a very very short term). Russel should be the next in line to be nurtured as no2 gaining exp and follow as no1 when Hamilton retires (or moves to Ferrari - half kidding).
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On August 14 2019 03:08 KobraKay wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2019 11:52 Ben... wrote: As a fan of Albon, I'm both excited but also pretty concerned. He's clearly quite talented just like a lot of these younger guys (Norris, Russell, Verstappen, Leclerc, etc.) but I just don't want the Red Bull meat grinder to get him like it has with so many others. With that team it either goes really well like it has with Verstappen, Vettel, and Ricciardo, or it goes horribly.
Albon has had some pretty good performances given he'd never even driven an F1 car before testing and got 6th place in a race that also happened to be the first time he ever drove an F1 car in the rain. Pretty crazy. This Red Bull promotion is even crazier considering his previous career trajectory. He was supposed to be in Formula E, and last year almost didn't have a F2 seat, which would have killed his career, but was given a seat by the DAMS team principal despite Albon having limited backing.
But yeah, something had to be done about Gasly. He's literally costing Red Bull millions in prize money right now since they are third in the standings when they have the car to be second easily with two consistent drivers. Ferrari isn't quite in the mix with Red Bull and Mercedes but Verstappen can't outscore both Vettel and Leclerc by himself.
Curious to see what will happen with Bottas. He was Bottas 2.0 for a bit but has now regressed back to Bottas 1.0. He's costing Mercedes quite a few points and is collecting a smaller proportion of points versus Hamilton. There was a comparison article between Bottas and Rosberg, and Rosberg used to get between 45-50% of the team's points compared to Hamilton whereas Bottas gets only around 40%, and last year was even worse. He does seem to get along with Hamilton and not cause trouble though so I imagine that will be a factor in their decision. Bottas tends to have strong starts to seasons and weaker second halves so it could get worse for him.
I want to see Ocon racing again next year. He's too good to be on the sidelines. Either give him Bottas' seat or let him sign with a different team. Put him in Grosjean's Haas seat then let him and Magnussen piss everyone off. That'd be fun. This is a completely honest question that I have yet to see anyone reply to me. Why is Ocon "too good to be on the sidelines"? From the question you may get that I completely oppose that notion xD but I would really like to understand why have I seen this written a couple of times accross internet F1 forums. As a side note, Ocon will probably not get a Mercedes seat (unless it is a very very short term). Russel should be the next in line to be nurtured as no2 gaining exp and follow as no1 when Hamilton retires (or moves to Ferrari - half kidding).
I agree, I think Bottas makes more sense than Ocon all things considered, his Force India season he lost to Perez, and Perez is getting ranked around 10th in power rankings. Honestly I think we won't see any big shifts next year with the regulations not changing and current drivers understanding their own cars well.
I think 2021, Hamilton in Ferrari and Vettel retiring is a real possibility, and Verstappen moving from Red Bull is a real possibility. Next year, at least one of Grosjean/Magnusson being out of F1 is almost guaranteed, so either a rookie or maybe they'd take Hulkenberg to fill a Haas seat, Ocon/Bottas to Renault (other one to Mercedes, I think the Schumi/Massa type system that Mercedes has now works), Gasly and Kubica probably won't have a seat next year. Ferrari unchanged, Mclaren unchanged, Torro Rosso could take Russel or a rookie.
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And what, exactly, would Hamilton's motivation be for changing from the fastest and best paying team to the second/third fastest and much less paying team be?
For that matter, it doesn't even make full sense for Ferrari to hire Hamilton right now. Paying the fastest man on the grid the wages he want for a car that has a very good chance of not making him champion is going to be a hellofa waste of money for them.
There's a much bigger chance they'll have Leclerc as the nr1 driver and find some other 2nd driver to back him up. He's already proven he's as fast as Vettel.
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Ferrari is like the Real Madrid of F1. They pay a lot of money to their drivers and they are a team with a huge following.
That has some pull on drivers i think.
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And once he has the record for more wins, there's no better way to solidify his legacy than bring the crown back to Ferrari imo. I think at both Ferrari and at Mercedes he'd get $50-$60mil a year.
I expect Vettel to retire after 2020, and if I had the choice between Vettel and Hamilton, I'd take Hamilton. Ferrari also has a tendency of going after experienced drivers, for example bringing in Kimi or Alonso after they were both already successful.
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On August 14 2019 21:32 KobraKay wrote: Ferrari is like the Real Madrid of F1. They pay a lot of money to their drivers and they are a team with a huge following.
That has some pull on drivers i think. It's more like Chelsea vs ManU. If you're at one and is already paid higher than the other team is willing to pay, there is little to no reason to switch. Especially if the team you're on is winning consistently over the other. The Ferrari "history", "reputation" and "soul" has much more sway with the casual fan that it has on the drivers themselves. They don't care much besides getting a championship winning car.
On August 14 2019 22:26 FiWiFaKi wrote: And once he has the record for more wins, there's no better way to solidify his legacy than bring the crown back to Ferrari imo. I think at both Ferrari and at Mercedes he'd get $50-$60mil a year.
I expect Vettel to retire after 2020, and if I had the choice between Vettel and Hamilton, I'd take Hamilton. Ferrari also has a tendency of going after experienced drivers, for example bringing in Kimi or Alonso after they were both already successful.
He's already at $57 mill at Mercedes. Vettel, for comparison, is paid $45 mill this year.
I agree Vettel is probably going to retire either this year or next year at the latest. He just doesn't have it in him any more. But there is no indication that Hamilton is willing to make the downgrade switch.
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I feel pretty damn sure myself Hamilton would have won the title last year if he swapped seats with Vettel. Ferrari are there or thereabouts, even this year which has been bad they have had the quickest car at quite a few races. Money won't be Lewis' motivation either. I could see it happening personally.
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On August 14 2019 23:12 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2019 21:32 KobraKay wrote: Ferrari is like the Real Madrid of F1. They pay a lot of money to their drivers and they are a team with a huge following.
That has some pull on drivers i think. It's more like Chelsea vs ManU. If you're at one and is already paid higher than the other team is willing to pay, there is little to no reason to switch. Especially if the team you're on is winning consistently over the other. The Ferrari "history", "reputation" and "soul" has much more sway with the casual fan that it has on the drivers themselves. They don't care much besides getting a championship winning car. Show nested quote +On August 14 2019 22:26 FiWiFaKi wrote: And once he has the record for more wins, there's no better way to solidify his legacy than bring the crown back to Ferrari imo. I think at both Ferrari and at Mercedes he'd get $50-$60mil a year.
I expect Vettel to retire after 2020, and if I had the choice between Vettel and Hamilton, I'd take Hamilton. Ferrari also has a tendency of going after experienced drivers, for example bringing in Kimi or Alonso after they were both already successful. He's already at $57 mill at Mercedes. Vettel, for comparison, is paid $45 mill this year. I agree Vettel is probably going to retire either this year or next year at the latest. He just doesn't have it in him any more. But there is no indication that Hamilton is willing to make the downgrade switch.
Vettel is getting 45M winning zero. Hamilton gets that on his latest contract (recently signed after using a record breaking car), Vettel's has a few years already.
Regarding the "casual fan part", well that is your opinion which I respect but I have to disagree with.
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On August 14 2019 03:08 KobraKay wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2019 11:52 Ben... wrote: As a fan of Albon, I'm both excited but also pretty concerned. He's clearly quite talented just like a lot of these younger guys (Norris, Russell, Verstappen, Leclerc, etc.) but I just don't want the Red Bull meat grinder to get him like it has with so many others. With that team it either goes really well like it has with Verstappen, Vettel, and Ricciardo, or it goes horribly.
Albon has had some pretty good performances given he'd never even driven an F1 car before testing and got 6th place in a race that also happened to be the first time he ever drove an F1 car in the rain. Pretty crazy. This Red Bull promotion is even crazier considering his previous career trajectory. He was supposed to be in Formula E, and last year almost didn't have a F2 seat, which would have killed his career, but was given a seat by the DAMS team principal despite Albon having limited backing.
But yeah, something had to be done about Gasly. He's literally costing Red Bull millions in prize money right now since they are third in the standings when they have the car to be second easily with two consistent drivers. Ferrari isn't quite in the mix with Red Bull and Mercedes but Verstappen can't outscore both Vettel and Leclerc by himself.
Curious to see what will happen with Bottas. He was Bottas 2.0 for a bit but has now regressed back to Bottas 1.0. He's costing Mercedes quite a few points and is collecting a smaller proportion of points versus Hamilton. There was a comparison article between Bottas and Rosberg, and Rosberg used to get between 45-50% of the team's points compared to Hamilton whereas Bottas gets only around 40%, and last year was even worse. He does seem to get along with Hamilton and not cause trouble though so I imagine that will be a factor in their decision. Bottas tends to have strong starts to seasons and weaker second halves so it could get worse for him.
I want to see Ocon racing again next year. He's too good to be on the sidelines. Either give him Bottas' seat or let him sign with a different team. Put him in Grosjean's Haas seat then let him and Magnussen piss everyone off. That'd be fun. This is a completely honest question that I have yet to see anyone reply to me. Why is Ocon "too good to be on the sidelines"? From the question you may get that I completely oppose that notion xD but I would really like to understand why have I seen this written a couple of times accross internet F1 forums. As a side note, Ocon will probably not get a Mercedes seat (unless it is a very very short term). Russel should be the next in line to be nurtured as no2 gaining exp and follow as no1 when Hamilton retires (or moves to Ferrari - half kidding). Ocon was quite consistent and was getting faster as time went on. While he didn't outscore Perez in his rookie season, he was in the points every race barring two races and more or less matched Perez the entire season. The one race he did retire from was because somebody (I think Stroll?) hit him, otherwise he would not have retired once the entire season and would have likely been in the points in all but one race. In 2018 Perez did outscore Ocon but in the races Ocon finished he beat Perez 9 out of 15 times, often by at least a couple places. Also keep in mind Ocon had multiple DNFs due to power unit problems which account for his points difference to Perez. That's also not factoring in that he had several races ruined that season by being hit by his teammate (this was a big story back then) or others. What is also worth noting is that a good chunk of Perez's points lead on Ocon that season came from him lucking into 3rd place in Azerbaijan after both Red Bulls crashed and Bottas had a puncture while leading while in the same race Ocon got hit into a wall by Kimi causing him to DNF. Remove the Azerbaijan result and Ocon beat Perez in the season. Perez beat Ocon by 13 points despite Ocon having 4 more DNFs than him (1 DNF was directly caused by Perez hitting if I remember right. I think it was Singapore).
Ocon outperformed Perez frequently and ended up losing his seat because of Perez bringing more sponsors and Stroll's dad buying the team Ocon was at. He was easily better than both of them.
Mercedes is a team that values consistency. 2014-2017 Bottas was an incredibly consistent driver but the last couple seasons he has been anything but. Most of his 2017 season was quite shaky and a fair number of his races this season have been a mess. He crashed out of a podium position without being under pressure from other drivers and had trouble overtaking people in vastly inferior cars. The only person in the top 3 teams not heavily outperforming him just got demoted so I guess that says something about where Bottas is at right now.
While Ocon may not be out and out faster than Bottas, he certainly looked more consistent and was improving a great deal and I wouldn't be surprised if he did better than Bottas in the same seat. Mercedes hung onto Ocon and was hesitant to let other teams sign him for a reason.
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Thank you for the detailed summary.
I understand where you are coming from but when I read what people say about him i was expecting something truly great and not that he is a consistent driver that is improving and beating Perez.
So Gasly "has problems in traffic and can't overtake". Outch, that gotta hurt his expectations of coming back up.
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Well that looks….strange. To me the wagon wheels are just too much T_T
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On August 23 2019 07:50 KobraKay wrote: Well that looks….strange. To me the wagon wheels are just too much T_T
Think it looks awesome tbh. The new sidepods and wheel rims really sells a futuristic look that I dig
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On August 23 2019 15:42 Excludos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2019 07:50 KobraKay wrote: Well that looks….strange. To me the wagon wheels are just too much T_T Think it looks awesome tbh. The new sidepods and wheel rims really sells a futuristic look that I dig
im with you. Thats one beautiful car. Hope for less aerodynamics elements to provide more mechanical grip for better racing!
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Inaugural month of no overtaking included
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