pvz turtle help
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raplacay
9 Posts
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
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EsX_Raptor
United States2801 Posts
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art_of_turtle
United States1148 Posts
On July 16 2019 00:12 raplacay wrote: I have ran into this zerg player (jinhadsoldier) on the latter 3 or 4 times now, and he does this really cheesy style where he goes 3 hatch lurker on two bases and turtles so well i cant break him. he gets spores and scourge so he keeps killing my observers and he gets dark swarm so i cant just go corsair/carrier. i don't know if i should wait for him to run out of dark swarm or storm everything or go corsair carrier just so he can't snipe my observers and then come in and storm. point is this is the only zerg i have this problem with and it is driving me crazy. Any and all help will be very much appreciated - Raplacay Don't worry I am here to help you understand the deeper knowledge known as the "Art Of Turtle". Only few possess the sacred abilities known as "Turtling". They stem from studying the ancient texts from another race whose sole purpose in play is truly to be passive. Of course I speak of the "Terran" Race with their infinitely fast vultures who lay mines with massive damage potential, and the walking turret's who stumble about on the battlefield called Goliaths, and the true "piece de resistance" that is known as the "Siege Tank" who's Large range and splash damage are surpassed by none. As with all those who turtle, they find themselves under a very auspicious position in the later portions of the game, only bound by 1 finite issue. That is the supply cap of "200" and when reached unable to outstretch their neck and gobble up all the land. The true weakness of "Turtle style" stems from the inability to move well. I hope this insight has inspired you to take more bases and have more units then the immobile turtle instead of mindlessly throwing away your army in a modest attempt to flex your protoss prowess. | ||
fearthequeen
United States780 Posts
On July 16 2019 08:26 art_of_turtle wrote: Don't worry I am here to help you understand the deeper knowledge known as the "Art Of Turtle". Only few possess the sacred abilities known as "Turtling". They stem from studying the ancient texts from another race whose sole purpose in play is truly to be passive. Of course I speak of the "Terran" Race with their infinitely fast vultures who lay mines with massive damage potential, and the walking turret's who stumble about on the battlefield called Goliaths, and the true "piece de resistance" that is known as the "Siege Tank" who's Large range and splash damage are surpassed by none. As with all those who turtle, they find themselves under a very auspicious position in the later portions of the game, only bound by 1 finite issue. That is the supply cap of "200" and when reached unable to outstretch their neck and gobble up all the land. The true weakness of "Turtle style" stems from the inability to move well. I hope this insight has inspired you to take more bases and have more units then the immobile turtle instead of mindlessly throwing away your army in a modest attempt to flex your protoss prowess. You been taking writing classes from Nina? Haha. Really though there is good advice in there. But yeah op, post a couple replays so people can help pinpoint where you are going wrong. A lot of lower/mid level players just lack decent macro mechanics and macro timing. There may be a bottleneck you have to fix first before worrying about strategy, unit compositions, and the like. | ||
ninazerg
United States7290 Posts
On July 16 2019 11:52 fearthequeen wrote: You been taking writing classes from Nina? Haha. Really though there is good advice in there. But yeah op, post a couple replays so people can help pinpoint where you are going wrong. A lot of lower/mid level players just lack decent macro mechanics and macro timing. There may be a bottleneck you have to fix first before worrying about strategy, unit compositions, and the like. I actually pulled a Jelly and ghosted Brood War. I went into cloak, but sometimes I come out to shoot lockdown at stuff. On July 16 2019 00:12 raplacay wrote: I have ran into this zerg player (jinhadsoldier) on the latter 3 or 4 times now, and he does this really cheesy style where he goes 3 hatch lurker on two bases and turtles so well i cant break him. he gets spores and scourge so he keeps killing my observers and he gets dark swarm so i cant just go corsair/carrier. i don't know if i should wait for him to run out of dark swarm or storm everything or go corsair carrier just so he can't snipe my observers and then come in and storm. point is this is the only zerg i have this problem with and it is driving me crazy. Any and all help will be very much appreciated - Raplacay If I am to assume you're fast-expanding, and you're on two bases, and he's on two bases, then technically speaking, you should have an advantage. Unfortunately, you need a lot of cash money to build carriers, so you're best off building a lot of corsairs (I mean like 8 or so) and just massacre his overlords, so dark templar can deny him taking bases while you take more bases. You can defend your bases with cannons, but since he gets dark swarm, put a robotics facility at each base and make two or three reavers at each. Scarab shots aren't affected by dark swarm, and neither is psionic storm. I generally would recommend not going carriers against Zerg, because it can be very difficult to stop a big hydra/dark swarm push across the map. I'm not saying not to do it, because on some maps, carriers are great, but that's generally more true for maps with island bases, and after doing some kind of reaver harass. If you have some replays to show of your games with him, it'd be interesting to see how he's playing, because I can think of a ton of weaknesses that you can exploit against a 2-base turtle zerg. | ||
art_of_turtle
United States1148 Posts
On July 16 2019 11:52 fearthequeen wrote: You been taking writing classes from Nina? Haha. Really though there is good advice in there. But yeah op, post a couple replays so people can help pinpoint where you are going wrong. A lot of lower/mid level players just lack decent macro mechanics and macro timing. There may be a bottleneck you have to fix first before worrying about strategy, unit compositions, and the like. I just truly believed for once someone called out for help directly to me, and as an outstanding member of the community I felt obliged to answer their call. | ||
TheBrochette
67 Posts
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raplacay
9 Posts
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chozen86
United States60 Posts
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linestein
United States210 Posts
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Psyonic_Reaver
United States4318 Posts
Reavers for defense mixed with a few HTs aren't bad. Another alternative is to keep a few DT instead. Great blockers and can 1 shot lings and bring down Ultras quite fast as well since most Zergs that do this style RARELY bring an Overlord along the first few attacks against expos. Shoot if the map is Fighting Spirit and your 3rd expo is up on one of the ramp expos. Use 2 DT to block the ramp but leave JUST enough of a gap for lings to funnel through. Blocks Ultras but lets the little bastards get shredded going in 1 by 1. Some Zergs never even notice the DT and just keep suiciding over and over. Air power is key as well, get that +1 wep and get 8-9 sairs and periodically go in and shred his supply and then force an engagement. He will have panicked using larva to make overlords and won't have many to spare for units. A fun thing to do is Step 1: Attack Overlords, you can even just A-Move and forget if you can spare losing 8 Corsairs. Step 2: Attack Zerg Army but don't fully commit, just draw his attention away. Step 3: Storm Drop and kill his Drones. Step 4: Now engage his Army. Poor Zerg won't know what to spend his larva on. Granted this takes foresight and a passive Zerg that will let you set up the plan but it's worked great for me in the past vs those true Turtle Zergs. If he goes the whole Sunk/Spore/Lurk turtle bullshit. All you can do is take as much map control as you can and prevent 4th base gas if possible. If not. You have to AT ALL COSTS prevent a 5th base and just bleed the Zerg dry by playing JUST as passively and maxing out your upgrades and army. Try to meet him as close to his base as possible and rolling retreat back away from the dark swarms, use storm as much as possible. Heck, if he won't engage you, run up a HT and randomly storm things and then fall back. You've got energy to spare if he's being that passive. I've had hour long games because of that SSL strat though... Good luck. | ||
ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
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raplacay
9 Posts
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RealZork
31 Posts
It’s important that this Zerg is a 2 base camper and not a 3 base camper. Zerg desperately need the 3rd gas. There’s just no way they will be able to afford lurker/scourge/defiler/ultra off 2 base. Sometimes it’s better to just sit back and let him do the struggle. Focus on keeping him contained to the natural but never fully engage and keeping your bases secure with a Templar or 2. Put them outside their comfort zone and let them starve it out. Sometimes I also send one DT to patrol their 3rd / 4th so you can make sure they don’t sneak another base. Make lots of gateways on 3 base you should have 10-12. If your army somehow loses engagements you have advantage with more money but you need to be able to replenish your army quick. Keep an inspiring near the entrance to your base where they are likely to try drops. All in all if you are patient you should win. | ||
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