NASA and the Private Sector - Page 165
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Manit0u
Poland17031 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States40988 Posts
SpaceX’s Starhopper is ramping up test operations at Boca Chica, Texas, ahead of what’s anticipated to be the first, a few feet off the ground hop tests in the coming days. In the past several days, observers at the east Texas test and launch facility have documented numerous cryogenic tests of Starhopper’s propellant tanks that hold Liquid Oxygen (LOX) and Liquid Methane to fuel the vehicle’s Raptor engines. These tests involved fueling Starhopper with LOX and liquid methane and testing the pressurization systems, observed via icing of propellant lines leading to the vehicle and the venting of cryogenic boil off at the launch/test site. These tanking and pressurization tests occurred after Starhopper was transported from its build location to its launch/test stand down the road and proceeded without any of the vehicle’s Raptor engines installed, something Elon Musk noted would happen in short order. This was followed by visual confirmation last week of the first Raptor engine’s arrival at the Texas site and subsequent installation to Starhopper. In quick order, residents of Boca Chica Village were notified via mail of imminent tests and road closures that would occur as early as this week, the week of 18 March. The notice to residents revealed that a security checkpoint would be set up on the road leading to Boca Chica Village and that residents would have to show proof of residence in order to gain access to their homes; any passengers in those vehicles would also have to show proof of residence. This indicates that no guests will be allowed past the security checkpoint during the coming flight test operations of Starhopper. A hard checkpoint beyond which no access to Boca Chica Beach will be granted will be further down the road. With the recent arrival and installation of the first Raptor engine into Starhopper, there was speculation as to whether the test Boca Chica residents were told of would be a hold down static fire or the first hop of Starhopper. Elon Musk confirmed via Twitter at the weekend that it would “hopefully” be a hop – but only a barely getting off the ground hop and not a low-altitude suborbital hop. Those suborbital hops require all three of Starhopper’s Raptor engines be installed. This is quite a departure from how SpaceX has previously proceeded with vehicle testing – forgoing a hold down static fire and instead allowing the single Raptor to lift Starhopper off the ground – albeit only slightly – on its very first integrated firing. In January, Mr. Musk indicated that Starhopper flight tests could begin as soon as February-March 2019 – which might come true – if no unforeseen circumstances occurred. Source | ||
opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2346 Posts
On March 19 2019 18:26 opisska wrote: How the fuck can SpaceX determine who is allowed to go to a village? Asking the local authority nicely and providing good reasons I would assume. That is generally how it is done. | ||
opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On March 20 2019 01:38 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Asking the local authority nicely and providing good reasons I would assume. That is generally how it is done. Yeah I read something about it and I must tell you, this would not fly in 2019 Europe (to be fair, they would never have gotten away by building a potential local doomsday device so close to inhabited buildings). I guess my lack of US perspective has me confused quite too often. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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ZerOCoolSC2
8693 Posts
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On March 20 2019 02:46 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: If it is at their facility and they're conducting tests, I'm assuming it is more from a safety standpoint than a privacy thing. By restricting nonessential people from access, they minimize collateral. They are restricting access to a nearby village, not owned by them, to only residents of that village - and according to available news articles, not because of the residents' request.. Again, I am not sure if that view is applicable worldwide, but if this was happening in my vicinity, I would consider taking it to the streets. It could maybe be acceptable in case of nationwide strategical interest, but no way in hell because of a wish of a private company. | ||
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2346 Posts
On March 20 2019 01:40 opisska wrote: Yeah I read something about it and I must tell you, this would not fly in 2019 Europe (to be fair, they would never have gotten away by building a potential local doomsday device so close to inhabited buildings). I guess my lack of US perspective has me confused quite too often. To my knowledge local authorities in Europe also have a long and proud history of helping out (some would say bending over for) big companies in a variety of ways. It can be everything from fairly benign things (allowing the construction of a small local railway that will stop traffic at some points) to much larger scale stuff. If the local town is small enough and the economic project important enough it's even possible to relocate an entire city in order to keep the company going which has recently happened (or is ongoing) in Sweden. It seems to be the local sheriffs office that is handling the perimiter issue and it seems to be a safety zone. So probably everyone involved agrees that it's a good idea. "NOTICE TO BOCA CHICA VILLAGE RESIDENTS" "SpaceX is planning to conduct testing as soon as the week of March 18, 2019 at the company's site located near Boca Chica Beach, Cameron County, Texas. During those tests, SpaceX will establish a safety zone perimeter in coordination with local law enforcement. Signage will be in place prior to testing to alert the community of any temporary closures of Highway 4 and Boca Chica Beach. "Boca Chica Village residents will have access to their homes during testing." The alleged notice also included a labeled Google Map, reproduced below, and the following text to accompany it: "[T]wo temporary checkpoints will be established on Highway 4. Individuals who provide proof of residence between the two checkpoints will be allowed to proceed through the soft checkpoint. Access beyond the hard checkpoint will not be permitted during temporary closures." | ||
opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On March 20 2019 02:54 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: To my knowledge local authorities in Europe also have a long and proud history of helping out (some would say bending over for) big companies in a variety of ways. It can be everything from fairly benign things (allowing the construction of a small local railway that will stop traffic at some points) to much larger scale stuff. If the local town is small enough and the economic project important enough it's even possible to relocate an entire city in order to keep the company going which has recently happened (or is ongoing) in Sweden. It seems to be the local sheriffs office that is handling the perimiter issue and it seems to be a safety zone. So probably everyone involved agrees that it's a good idea. "NOTICE TO BOCA CHICA VILLAGE RESIDENTS" "SpaceX is planning to conduct testing as soon as the week of March 18, 2019 at the company's site located near Boca Chica Beach, Cameron County, Texas. During those tests, SpaceX will establish a safety zone perimeter in coordination with local law enforcement. Signage will be in place prior to testing to alert the community of any temporary closures of Highway 4 and Boca Chica Beach. "Boca Chica Village residents will have access to their homes during testing." The alleged notice also included a labeled Google Map, reproduced below, and the following text to accompany it: "[T]wo temporary checkpoints will be established on Highway 4. Individuals who provide proof of residence between the two checkpoints will be allowed to proceed through the soft checkpoint. Access beyond the hard checkpoint will not be permitted during temporary closures." And how exactly does holding a resident's ID help you being safe within the zone, whereas someone without such an ID is not? Are the local residents somehow immunized against exploding rockets? And no, not everyone involved agrees: “I’m like, ‘Are you out of your mind?’” said Cheryl Stevens, 55, who settled in Boca Chica Village a decade ago in search of quiet, rustic beauty. “It’s like Nazi Germany.” http://www.parabolicarc.com/2015/09/09/spacex-wears-boca-chica-village/ But mainly, Heaton said, he is frustrated because the company hasn’t talked to residents directly in two years. https://www.marketplace.org/2018/05/11/business/neighbors-concerned-spacex-could-transform-south-texas Residents aren't amused. Cheryl Stevens says she's consulted with attorneys about the legality of closing down the public beach, which she argues is protected by the Texas Open Beaches Act enshrined in the state constitution. https://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150913/business/150919727/ Just first page of Google with no knowledge of what some more relevant local papers could be. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 20 2019 03:13 opisska wrote: And how exactly does holding a resident's ID help you being safe within the zone, whereas someone without such an ID is not? Are the local residents somehow immunized against exploding rockets? And no, not everyone involved agrees: “I’m like, ‘Are you out of your mind?’” said Cheryl Stevens, 55, who settled in Boca Chica Village a decade ago in search of quiet, rustic beauty. “It’s like Nazi Germany.” http://www.parabolicarc.com/2015/09/09/spacex-wears-boca-chica-village/ But mainly, Heaton said, he is frustrated because the company hasn’t talked to residents directly in two years. https://www.marketplace.org/2018/05/11/business/neighbors-concerned-spacex-could-transform-south-texas Residents aren't amused. Cheryl Stevens says she's consulted with attorneys about the legality of closing down the public beach, which she argues is protected by the Texas Open Beaches Act enshrined in the state constitution. https://www.dailyherald.com/article/20150913/business/150919727/ Just first page of Google with no knowledge of what some more relevant local papers could be. You see, these are the details I said were important. The only reason I cited safety is because the town and local law enforcement have limits. If a huge crowd of people showed up to see the launch for whatever reason, they might have wanted to make them watch from a specific locations or whatever. But that was pure speculation. This is just a large company empowering shitting local government to abuse their local government powers. The best result is the local government and Space X getting hit with a nice lawsuit to amuse us all. | ||
opisska
Poland8852 Posts
- which probably won't ever happen, but it is still amusing. I mean, the choice here is relatively clear, the place must be the closest point to the equator in the US, but for how "cool" SpaceX is trying to act, this is surely some bad PR happening for them here. It's not like the US doesn't have scores of completely uninhabited land in it ... | ||
ZerOCoolSC2
8693 Posts
It isn't about having the land. It's about weather. Launching in the south is better because weather is more consistent and provides better flight windows for rockets. Try launch in in north dakota or montana. | ||
opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On March 20 2019 03:26 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Either get onboard wit progress or be ran over by it. This is a minor inconvenience while they conduct tests. They're not kicking them out forever. Fucking hell hillbillies. It isn't about having the land. It's about weather. Launching in the south is better because weather is more consistent and provides better flight windows for rockets. Try launch in in north dakota or montana. Well you can also try to launch in the large swathes of southern US that are not right on the coast and are not densely populated, but the funny interplay between the centrifugal force of Earth's rotation and the exponential fuel consumption makes the difference of launch costs as a function of distance to the equator significant. Why do you think the NASA launch complex is in Florida despite the risk of hurricane damage (and even rampant Florida men)? As for the first paragraph I would again put that to cultural differences where I am conditioned to expect people having civic rights independent of them being "hillbillies" or not. | ||
CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2346 Posts
On March 20 2019 03:25 opisska wrote: Btw. the most fun thing I found while looking this up is that the spaceport location is in a danger to be cut in half by The Wall - which probably won't ever happen, but it is still amusing. I mean, the choice here is relatively clear, the place must be the closest point to the equator in the US, but for how "cool" SpaceX is trying to act, this is surely some bad PR happening for them here. It's not like the US doesn't have scores of completely uninhabited land in it ... I think it's already protected in a separate bill (as is the butterfly sanctuary). There is always going to be a few loud people protesting (seriously, nazi germany reference?). It's pretty clear that what they are trying to achieve is to not have hundreds of fans standing as close as they can possibly be to the place where they are testing their new vehicle. At the same time they don't think it's enough of a danger that they have to evacuate the entire town. Easiest way to do this is to allow residents to go in and out as they please, restrict everyone else. Also if you allow a rocket company to build next to you and have a deal with this is not entirely unexpected. If you don't like the way your elected officials made the deal then you can elect someone else who cancels it or changes how it works. Amazon HQ in New York is one example on how it's easily possible to change the mind of a company on where to build. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 20 2019 03:26 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: Either get onboard wit progress or be ran over by it. This is a minor inconvenience while they conduct tests. They're not kicking them out forever. Fucking hell hillbillies. It isn't about having the land. It's about weather. Launching in the south is better because weather is more consistent and provides better flight windows for rockets. Try launch in in north dakota or montana. Yeah, to hell with this crap. The rich ass billionaires can pay me directly to put up with their stupid rocket vanity project, rather than making local government act check IDs at the town border and not working with the local community. Just because they are launching rockets into space doesn’t mean we need to lick their boots or be grateful. At least NASA enriched the community around it by having a dedicated launch site. Space X avoids that by setting up shop for a short period of time, not talking to anyone and somehow convincing the local government to do their dirty work for them. On March 20 2019 03:36 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Amazon HQ in New York is one example on how it's easily possible to change the mind of a company on where to build. There is a huge difference between the political power of NYC and some rural town on the southern border. Also NYC has a robust culture of civil protest and opposing their local government’s bullshit. Even then, what they did was not easy. | ||
ZerOCoolSC2
8693 Posts
On March 20 2019 03:34 opisska wrote: Well you can also try to launch in the large swathes of southern US that are not right on the coast and are not densely populated, but the funny interplay between the centrifugal force of Earth's rotation and the exponential fuel consumption makes the difference of launch costs as a function of distance to the equator significant. Why do you think the NASA launch complex is in Florida despite the risk of hurricane damage (and even rampant Florida men)? As for the first paragraph I would again put that to cultural differences where I am conditioned to expect people having civic rights independent of them being "hillbillies" or not. They rarely launch during hurricane season. And the hillbilly isnjn reference to the myriad ways companies have tried to kickstart a local economy with a new project, but the locals don't want it. Look at the coal miners. Now, to the point of having civic rights, they do. As is stated above, file a petition to have it on the ballot that SpaceX has to go. Vote them away. HQ Amazon is a perfect example. P6, I havent read anything that says this is a temporary deal. In fact, if the test goes to plan, then I expect the surrounding areas to start getting business to facilitate the staff there. How do you see this as not a good thing? | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 20 2019 03:40 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: They rarely launch during hurricane season. And the hillbilly isnjn reference to the myriad ways companies have tried to kickstart a local economy with a new project, but the locals don't want it. Look at the coal miners. Now, to the point of having civic rights, they do. As is stated above, file a petition to have it on the ballot that SpaceX has to go. Vote them away. HQ Amazon is a perfect example. P6, I havent read anything that says this is a temporary deal. In fact, if the test goes to plan, then I expect the surrounding areas to start getting business to facilitate the staff there. How do you see this as not a good thing? I don’t trust the people involved at Space X or the power dynamic between the small town government and a bunch of media savvy billionaires. Especially given that the community is complaining and the town decided that checking IDs at the border of the town was acceptable or even legal. Seriously, if Space X is going build a new school for the town, I would love to know. But if it is this “The launch site will improve the local area through the natural process of the free market” Space X can fuck right off. | ||
ZerOCoolSC2
8693 Posts
On March 20 2019 04:14 Plansix wrote: I don’t trust the people involved at Space X or the power dynamic between the small town government and a bunch of media savvy billionaires. Especially given that the community is complaining and the town decided that checking IDs at the border of the town was acceptable or even legal. Seriously, if Space X is going build a new school for the town, I would love to know. But if it is this “The launch site will improve the local area through the natural process of the free market” Space X can fuck right off. For a progressive, you seem really backwards on this. This launch happens, then believe that the surrounding area will take off. NASA didn't improve all of their locations immediately. Give it time and allow some policies to be written to fix things. Shooting off the hip without knowing all the details (I'm just as guilty) isn't helpful. | ||
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On March 20 2019 04:44 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote: For a progressive, you seem really backwards on this. This launch happens, then believe that the surrounding area will take off. NASA didn't improve all of their locations immediately. Give it time and allow some policies to be written to fix things. Shooting off the hip without knowing all the details (I'm just as guilty) isn't helpful. As a progressive, I do not give in to astonishment. Space X is a very nice thing that a bunch of billionaires are doing for any number of reasons. It’s not building new schools or fixing roads in America. Or championing high speed rail across America. But it’s cool we are exploring space. Not as cool as trains, but still pretty cool. But the people involved are still folks from the garbage tech industry that is allergic to taxes and civil responsibility. Including Musk, the union busting, GOP donating, anti-labor asshole who can’t even comply with the SEC order he agreed to of his own free will. So call me a Luddite if it means I don’t trust filthy rich people to treat a small town’s concerns with respect or contribute directly to that town. | ||
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