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Durant is supposed to be the most consistent one. Klay is boom or bust. Curry is somewhere in the middle. That's how I see it too.
I think the teams that have no chance to defend the Warriors' offense are the ones: 1) without a couple of decent (edit: very good) wing defenders (for Durant) 2) where there is that one guy that will refuse to switch, lose track of his guy or take plays off in defense. That's when GSW will move until Curry is even slightly open and they'll find him.
There are actually a number of teams that I don't see defending that. Westbrook, Harden and Lebron give you this effort deficit in defense :D. Lebron these days is the King of pointing fingers to where guys should be while staying completely still in defense. He knows exactly how he should defend, obviously, but he doesn't think it's worth wasting his energy switching, closing out and chasing guys around screens.
Thankfully the Raptors are not in this situation. Their players all seem willing to switch and actively defend, even JV even if he's not really able to :D. And they have a couple of guys to throw at Durant.
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I think with the turmoil in GSW and some of the up and coming teams it is more exciting than it has been. I also agree that the chances of everyone having an off night at the same time like the GSW had is pretty slim, especially over a 7 game series. It is a fun year, I hope all the stars stay healthy.
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On December 14 2018 00:59 ZenithM wrote: I've seen literally nothing about how Curry sometimes disappears. Not just this game, it regularly happens (sometimes in the playoffs as well). To me he always seems like one of these superstars who can do no wrong, gets praised insanely when he has a great game in a blowout, doesn't get any criticism in losses (other than the "he was hurt" kind of deal).
I attribute that to the volume of 3s he relies on. People look at them and see as inevitable that there will be games where they just won't go in, compared to Durant who will take less valuable shots (but with less variance) and you will say more easily that he fucked up on lower-risk lower-reward shots. It's a kind of "3 point fallacy" the basketball world is building upon right now and can be the demise of teams in key moments (like the Rockets and their 27 misses last year). The fallacy is that you can somehow feel more okay with missing more valuable shots. But the truth is they're only more valuable if you make them. You should never feel okay about missing a lot of shots, wherever they come from and however many points they could be worth. So yeah 3pt shooters should be blamed for having bad performances.
I'm still not convinced Curry would be in the consideration for second best player in the world if he was not playing for GSW (especially the current version with Durant). I know he has the best on-off numbers but he also has the best supporting cast possible. If you look at rotations last year, Curry is by far the one of the big 4 that plays the least without one of the 3 other guys. The other 3 have played like 4-5 times more minutes alone by themselves with the bench (I'm especially amazed when I watch GSW games at how much they're using Klay + bench, it just doesn't seem that good). You can interpret it by saying it means that Curry raises GSW's ceiling more than the others do and the coaching staff realizes that, but it also makes Curry's own time on the floor easier, let's face it.
Yes, its just an example of old guys like Charles being half right. Curry notably has these streaks at increased rates in the playoffs against good teams because they target him more defensively, thuse making his shot less consistent on the floor.
On December 14 2018 01:15 ZenithM wrote: Also if I were the Warriors I would be very worried about Green being completely useless in offense outside of his passing. He has been regressing heavily from 3 for a while to the point where he shouldn't actually be allowed to shoot anymore. Sometimes he takes one just to show the defense he cannot be disrespected but it often bricks miserably. I would honestly forget actions that make him a passer up top behind the 3pt line, the defense is way too free to completely disregard what he does and focus on the other players. He's more dangerous passing from the post.
This plus what I said above is why the pre-Durant Warriors were never a juggernaut. They were a transitional team like the 2006 Mavs, except with a title, also somewhat like the Eagles with Nick Foles. They got 73 wins by being ahead of the curve at adapting to changes and being "first", but their title season was one of the most notable injury seasons with both Kyrie and Love out for the finals, OKC not even making the playoffs due to injuries, the Clippers dying after beating the Spurs, and the Rockets just not being all that good for a 2 seed having Dwight Howard as their #2 player.
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Eh, I've compared them to the SB Champion Seahawks in that their main strength is that they have an above average player at every position. All of their players are good, but they are put in a position to be great. Steph Curry is not Allen Iverson. Green could not go to the Hawks and be a Duncan-like black hole. This makes them seem very mortal (much like the Seahawks) once their advantage is blunted, unlike a lot of teams whose talent resides in a couple of superstars. Obviously the addition of Durant changed this a little bit.
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I think curry is also great to me he is the evolution of Steve Nash. But I do agree with your overall sentiment that the sum is greater than the value of each individual part.
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Jonas Valancuinas underwent surgery to repair his dislocated right thumb. He will be out at least 4 weeks.
On December 14 2018 03:45 cLutZ wrote: This plus what I said above is why the pre-Durant Warriors were never a juggernaut. i agree. if Chris Paul stays healthy do the Warriors repeat as champs? the Durant era Warriors still have something to prove to be classed as "juggernauts".
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Din widdie just signed a 3 year 36 mil extension. Good for him making the most of his with the nets and locking up top nack up money
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On December 14 2018 04:04 Jerubaal wrote: Eh, I've compared them to the SB Champion Seahawks in that their main strength is that they have an above average player at every position. All of their players are good, but they are put in a position to be great. Steph Curry is not Allen Iverson. Green could not go to the Hawks and be a Duncan-like black hole. This makes them seem very mortal (much like the Seahawks) once their advantage is blunted, unlike a lot of teams whose talent resides in a couple of superstars. Obviously the addition of Durant changed this a little bit.
That was the pre-Durant Warriors. The current incarnation is very top heavy with a huge drop off after their stars. It makes them weaker in the regular season but stronger in the playoffs, when their top players can play more minutes.
This discussion is why I roll my eyes when people claim Kerr does nothing because he has 4 All-Stars. With the numbers they put up, Draymond and Klay wouldn't be all-stars on any other team without the team success that Golden State has. It's for the same reason the Hawks had 4 all-stars with the team success they had 4 years ago. When a team plays well together, fans have a tendency to overrate the individual talents of the team members. The opposite occurs on a team with a Lebron or a Westbrook. They always seem to have a "bad" supporting cast. The front office and coaching staff deserve credit for assembling a team of players that complement each other, even if partly by accident.
On December 14 2018 03:45 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2018 01:15 ZenithM wrote: Also if I were the Warriors I would be very worried about Green being completely useless in offense outside of his passing. He has been regressing heavily from 3 for a while to the point where he shouldn't actually be allowed to shoot anymore. Sometimes he takes one just to show the defense he cannot be disrespected but it often bricks miserably. I would honestly forget actions that make him a passer up top behind the 3pt line, the defense is way too free to completely disregard what he does and focus on the other players. He's more dangerous passing from the post. This plus what I said above is why the pre-Durant Warriors were never a juggernaut. They were a transitional team like the 2006 Mavs, except with a title, also somewhat like the Eagles with Nick Foles. They got 73 wins by being ahead of the curve at adapting to changes and being "first", but their title season was one of the most notable injury seasons with both Kyrie and Love out for the finals, OKC not even making the playoffs due to injuries, the Clippers dying after beating the Spurs, and the Rockets just not being all that good for a 2 seed having Dwight Howard as their #2 player.
Funny enough, they are falling a bit compared to the curve now. They are attempting more mid-range shots and less 3-pointers versus other teams compared to earlier years. It's not so bad when it is Durant attempting 10-15 footers late in the shot clock whenever they are unable to find a better shot. It's another thing when Klay (or even Steph) takes 20-footers early in the shot clock. Those are just bad shots.
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Brandon Knight is making his debut tonight. Be interesting to see what he's got. At one point before all his injuries he was seen as a decent prospect.
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@andrewlt They aren't as deep, sure, and Iguadola and Livingston are a bit over the hill, but still. Name all of the teams whose second best player is as good Thompson. I'm almost tempted to say name all the teams whose second best player is as good as Green, but I think he's too weird to directly compare.
Question: If you had a clone of Rip Hamilton today, does he become a moneyball pick?
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the Lakers//Rockets colour commentator called it right : " we don't want athletes playing like robots ... the officials need to check their egos at the door". These techs are too nit-picky. NBA refs are becoming like MLB umpires.
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On December 14 2018 12:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote: the Lakers//Rockets colour commentator called it right : " we don't want athletes playing like robots ... the officials need to check their egos at the door". These techs are too nit-picky. NBA refs are becoming like MLB umpires.
I actually feel like technicals on Nene were okay. Obviously first call against him was absolute garbage but his reaction was more than simple frustration so I feel that was fine. Second technical was fine as well. Overall I agree with him. Technical should be given for insulting or too much argueing calls with refs or of course physical stuff (see Gobert) but not for signs of frustration.
Technical after that obviously was garbage as well. Games should be decided by players, not refs.
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On December 14 2018 12:07 JimmyJRaynor wrote: the Lakers//Rockets colour commentator called it right : " we don't want athletes playing like robots ... the officials need to check their egos at the door". These techs are too nit-picky. NBA refs are becoming like MLB umpires.
That player showed a lot of restraint, really. If you were in his position, you probably would have pulled a shiv and shanked that ref.
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Damn that 3 from Harden was disgusting
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which one? the 1 after the stephenson screen.. or the 1 that bounced 5 times and rolled around the rim and went in?
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On December 14 2018 12:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote:which one? the 1 after the stephenson screen.. or the 1 that bounced 5 times and rolled around the rim and went in?
The second one. Skill plus luck is a deadly combination:D
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On December 14 2018 12:36 TaKeTV wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2018 12:31 JimmyJRaynor wrote:which one? the 1 after the stephenson screen.. or the 1 that bounced 5 times and rolled around the rim and went in? The second one. Skill plus luck is a deadly combination:D Lebron James was 12 for 18 shooting tonight. not bad. not as good as Dennis "TaKe" Gehlen though. He is 18 for 18 in putting together good HomeStory Cup events
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On December 14 2018 01:45 andrewlt wrote: Durant is supposed to be the most consistent one. Klay is boom or bust. Curry is somewhere in the middle. I think they just laid an egg.
Coach Nick covered the game on BBallBreakdown and yeah, they whiffed about 12 completely wide open 3's.
Warriors problem this year is going to be their D. Usually they're pretty solid but last I checked they were floating around 15th in Dfensive rating. Probably still going to win it all, but something to keep an eye on.
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Might be Lebron syndrome where they only play defense in the playoffs. They got so much talent it's hard to think they won't but it is exciting that others have hope.
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On December 14 2018 11:08 Jerubaal wrote: @andrewlt They aren't as deep, sure, and Iguadola and Livingston are a bit over the hill, but still. Name all of the teams whose second best player is as good Thompson. I'm almost tempted to say name all the teams whose second best player is as good as Green, but I think he's too weird to directly compare.
Question: If you had a clone of Rip Hamilton today, does he become a moneyball pick?
I'll concede that point. They are in this weird spot where you can consider them both top heavy and still kinda deep. Playoff rotations are normally 8-deep and the Warriors don't have much outside their top 6 (maybe 7 if Cousins fits in). Their 7th-12th guys used to be good enough that they be plugged in and contribute depending on matchups. Last year, they were hobbling when Iguodala went down and they were left with 5 playable players during the Rockets series and even game 1 against the Cavs.
There really aren't any teams whose second best player is as good as Curry. The Warriors have the best 5-player lineup in the league. They used to be able to make runs when they stagger resting their starters, but the 2 All-Stars + 3 scrubs lineups seem to be having all sorts of issues now. The scrubs are really bad. Teams like the Raptors are deeper than them now.
On December 14 2018 22:55 JimmiC wrote: Might be Lebron syndrome where they only play defense in the playoffs. They got so much talent it's hard to think they won't but it is exciting that others have hope.
Sounds like it. They couldn't defend the Bucks at Oracle and gave up 134 points. They held them to 95 at Milwaukee because they were motivated to avenge a 20-pt loss. Still don't think they are as ahead of the league as they were two years ago.
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