EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2
| Forum Index > General Forum |
Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
|
farvacola
United States18813 Posts
| ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
| ||
|
iamthedave
England2814 Posts
This shouldn't be as funny as it is. On March 20 2018 19:39 Plansix wrote: It is troubling that the bomber keeps switching styles. First the package bombs, then the trip wire and now we are back to the package bomb. I asked in the old thread when the big T word gets used, but surely at this point it's warranted? I mean, what other explanation could there be? He was really unhappy with his McDonalds coffee, like, SO MAD, and he just had to explode things? It seems like a less efficient/effective version of the DC Sniper. Come to think of it, were that duo ever deemed to be terrorists? | ||
|
Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On March 20 2018 19:57 iamthedave wrote: This shouldn't be as funny as it is. I asked in the old thread when the big T word gets used, but surely at this point it's warranted? I mean, what other explanation could there be? He was really unhappy with his McDonalds coffee, like, SO MAD, and he just had to explode things? It seems like a less efficient/effective version of the DC Sniper. Come to think of it, were that duo ever deemed to be terrorists? While some political / societal motive is generally something you'd want evidence of before dropping the T, I do tend to agree. This has reached a point where the actions themselves are more than evidence enough. Although many outlets like WaPo are probably very on edge in the current climate, and Fox wouldn't use the word terrorist because the bomber is, statistically, not someone they'd call a terrorist. So between playing it safe for some and extreme ideological bent for others, I don't think we'll see the word, appropriate as it may be. Also in other news: Holy **** this Cambridge Analytica story is wild. You couldn't conspiracy up this stuff if you wanted to sound crazy. | ||
|
Plansix
United States60190 Posts
| ||
|
Acrofales
Spain17704 Posts
On March 20 2018 20:16 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: While some political / societal motive is generally something you'd want evidence of before dropping the T, I do tend to agree. This has reached a point where the actions themselves are more than evidence enough. Although many outlets like WaPo are probably very on edge in the current climate, and Fox wouldn't use the word terrorist because the bomber is, statistically, not someone they'd call a terrorist. So between playing it safe for some and extreme ideological bent for others, I don't think we'll see the word, appropriate as it may be. Also in other news: Holy **** this Cambridge Analytica story is wild. You couldn't conspiracy up this stuff if you wanted to sound crazy. What makes the perpetrator of these bombings a terrorist and not an "ornery" serial killer? Is there some political motive that underlies him inspiring terror? Or does he just like murdering people? Pretty sure that's the main difference. And nobody seems to have any idea what his motive is, so there doesn't seem to be any reason to call him a terrorist. | ||
|
farvacola
United States18813 Posts
| ||
|
Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
On March 20 2018 20:18 Acrofales wrote: What makes the perpetrator of these bombings a terrorist and not an "ornery" serial killer? Is there some political motive that underlies him inspiring terror? Or does he just like murdering people? Pretty sure that's the main difference. And nobody seems to have any idea what his motive is, so there doesn't seem to be any reason to call him a terrorist. There are much, much more effective and less public ways of killing people than explosives. The type of weapon you use and how you do it sends a strong message. This person has gone to immense effort to ensure that their attacks are noticed. Bombs, especially ones delivered via multiple different means in different areas, send a message that no-one is safe, and you know exactly why. It is not conclusive proof that the person has terror (as opposed to just murder) as a motive, but it is damn strong evidence. EDIT: Basically what farvacola said  | ||
|
a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
On March 20 2018 19:57 iamthedave wrote: This shouldn't be as funny as it is. I asked in the old thread when the big T word gets used, but surely at this point it's warranted? I mean, what other explanation could there be? He was really unhappy with his McDonalds coffee, like, SO MAD, and he just had to explode things? It seems like a less efficient/effective version of the DC Sniper. Come to think of it, were that duo ever deemed to be terrorists? What do you mean? We don't know his skin color or religion yet. Don't be silly. | ||
|
Excludos
Norway7882 Posts
On March 20 2018 19:57 iamthedave wrote: This shouldn't be as funny as it is. I asked in the old thread when the big T word gets used, but surely at this point it's warranted? I mean, what other explanation could there be? He was really unhappy with his McDonalds coffee, like, SO MAD, and he just had to explode things? It seems like a less efficient/effective version of the DC Sniper. Come to think of it, were that duo ever deemed to be terrorists? Terrorism has to be politically motivated (contempt with the current religious climate is a political motivation, which is the stereotype terrorist most people think of). Killing people randomly through mail or other means is just murder until we can find out what the motivation is. I am for one happy that people/media don't immediately jump to the T conclusion. I just wish they'd do the same thing when the person isn't a male Caucasian | ||
|
GreenHorizons
United States22349 Posts
On March 20 2018 20:29 Excludos wrote: Terrorism has to be politically motivated (contempt with the current religious climate is a political motivation, which is the stereotype terrorist most people think of). Killing people randomly through mail or other means is just murder until we can find out what the motivation is. I am for one happy that people/media don't immediately jump to the T conclusion. I just wish they'd do the same thing when the person isn't a male Caucasian It's tough when a person's intent is clearly to cause terror by bombing people that we then don't call them a terrorist if their reasoning doesn't line up close enough to some ideology. If his reason for this is political but doesn't make any sense would he be a terrorist? Say he says this is because teachers are underpaid and overworked so he started blowing up random people to make people see the value of teachers Doesn't make much sense, but a clear political motivation, does that make them a terrorist more than someone who just get's pleasure inflicting terror on people? That to me is part of the problem with the usage of the word. Goes back the other way as well. If you're one of the thousands of people the US refers to as "collateral damage" those feel like terrorist bombs too, and they have a clear political motivation, so it becomes a matter of target, but then 9 out 10 people we killed with drones weren't the target, so it gets murkier and murkier what separates some of US international actions from terrorism. | ||
|
TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On March 20 2018 19:39 Plansix wrote: It is troubling that the bomber keeps switching styles. First the package bombs, then the trip wire and now we are back to the package bomb. It isn't even the same kind of package bomb, the past ones were just left on doorsteps, this one was mailed. | ||
|
MoonfireSpam
United Kingdom1153 Posts
I've just about been done reading this article "https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/17/data-war-whistleblower-christopher-wylie-faceook-nix-bannon-trump" I really don't find anything about this surprising or abhorrent beyond the fact that people are so surprised that when the click all these permissions on apps and such that suddenly their social data goes poof. Nothing here strikes me as anything more shady that I have a feeling happens in other industries (e.g. FDA). It's saddening that people can be manipulated (more by having their underlying views exaggerated or reinforced turning them more zealot about xyz) but I doubt there isn't a period in history where there hasn't been propaganda (off the top of my head; Brexit, Anti-vacine people, Religious extremism, NRA, Russia, Tabloid news). Curious how this stuff has been digested in the States. | ||
|
{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
The San Antonio Texas Fire Department says a package bomb has exploded at a FedEx distribution center in Schertz, Texas, hurting one person, a FedEx employee who apparently suffered a non-life-threatening “percussion-type” injury from the blast. The FBI and ATF are at the scene. Federal agents say this package is likely linked to attacks by what they believe is a serial bomber. Federal agents tell The Washington Post that a package bomb exploded shortly after midnight Tuesday inside a FedEx distribution center in Schertz, Texas. Spokeswomen for the FBI and the ATF say both agencies are at the scene. The explosion happened at the facility just northeast of San Antonio sometime around 1 a.m., said FBI Special Agent Michelle Lee. ATF spokeswoman Nicole Strong said that early indications are that no one was injured. Source | ||
|
Excludos
Norway7882 Posts
On March 20 2018 21:05 GreenHorizons wrote: It's tough when a person's intent is clearly to cause terror by bombing people that we then don't call them a terrorist if their reasoning doesn't line up close enough to some ideology. If his reason for this is political but doesn't make any sense would he be a terrorist? Yes Say he says this is because teachers are underpaid and overworked so he started blowing up random people to make people see the value of teachers Doesn't make much sense, but a clear political motivation, does that make them a terrorist more than someone who just get's pleasure inflicting terror on people? Yes. You don't have to be wrong in your ideologies to be a terrorist, only in your methods. That to me is part of the problem with the usage of the word. Goes back the other way as well. If you're one of the thousands of people the US refers to as "collateral damage" those feel like terrorist bombs too, and they have a clear political motivation, so it becomes a matter of target, but then 9 out 10 people we killed with drones weren't the target, so it gets murkier and murkier what separates some of US international actions from terrorism. Sure the word might be misleading if you consider terrorism as "causing terror" (Which, to be fair, is the main purpose of a terrorist). But you can cause terror without being a terrorist if your motivation is just to kill as many people as possible and not politically motivated. For instance: Most school shooters are not terrorists, because their motivation is usually only "I am fed up with all this bullying and I want to end my own and as many people's life as I can" (Or something along those lines) | ||
|
GreenHorizons
United States22349 Posts
On March 20 2018 21:15 Excludos wrote: Yes Yes. You don't have to be wrong in your ideologies to be a terrorist, only in your methods. Sure the word might be misleading if you consider terrorism as "causing terror" (Which, to be fair, is the main purpose of a terrorist). But you can cause terror without being a terrorist if your motivation is just to kill as many people as possible and not politically motivated. For instance: Most school shooters are not terrorists, because their motivation is usually only "I am fed up with all this bullying and I want to end my own and as many people's life as I can" (Or something along those lines) There's probably room for some a few different words for different situations. I'm actually less inclined to call people terrorists, especially US citizens, with consideration of how the government can/will/has treated suspected terrorists. Hope they catch the person alive. | ||
|
Acrofales
Spain17704 Posts
I also disagree with farvacola on bombs as a method being a terrorist method. What is more terrorizing: package bombs, or leaving an elaborately disemboweled body on the sidewalk? Serial killers often have a type of "showmanship". They don't ONLY want to kill. They want to one-up the police in a way that says "I can kill publicly and get away with it". The DC sniper wasn't a terrorist. He was a serial killer. If he, en passant, managed to terrorize all of DC that was a side effect: the end goal was murdering people. The Unabomber very clearly was a terrorist: blowing people up was his way of "terrorizing" people into doing his political bidding. The end goal wasn't murdering people, it was affecting change. | ||
|
farvacola
United States18813 Posts
| ||
|
ShoCkeyy
7815 Posts
I've also read that the package had nails and other things to spread out and do more damage as it exploded. This isn't some type of nobody, this is a person who has military experience especially building bombs from house hold items. | ||
|
Excludos
Norway7882 Posts
On March 20 2018 21:48 ShoCkeyy wrote: I've also read that the package had nails and other things to spread out and do more damage as it exploded. This isn't some type of nobody, this is a person who has military experience especially building bombs from house hold items. Or found this wonderful thing called internet. I have no doubts I would be able to make an effective bomb with shrapnel with household items from researching a bit on the web. Hell, I bet there's even an instructional Youtube video out there somewhere | ||
| ||
