On September 12 2017 01:39 Philozovic wrote:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_GSL_vs._the_World
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_GSL_vs._the_World
sOs at Blizzcon is usually someone totally different $O$ =)
Forum Index > SC2 General |
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12123 Posts
On September 12 2017 01:39 Philozovic wrote: Show nested quote + On September 12 2017 00:56 deacon.frost wrote: On September 12 2017 00:40 Raineeb wrote: On September 11 2017 16:45 Mun_Su wrote: Wcs welfare are bringing so much money to Neeb. You should become a progamer and do what Neeb did if you think it's that simple. It's actually not that much money if you consider what he has to do. Constant traveling, not much free time(unless something changed in the past 2 years) etc. I wouldn't do it, but I don't like LotV, if you like LotV it's a great career choice. If you can make it :o) I stay with programming :o) Edit> I may consider watching Blizzcon actually. Would love to see Neeb vs. sOs there. That means if that happens, I love sOs crushing foreign prodigies :D http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2017_GSL_vs._the_World sOs at Blizzcon is usually someone totally different $O$ =) | ||
Vindicare605
United States15883 Posts
On September 12 2017 00:04 Myrddrael wrote: Show nested quote + On September 11 2017 18:00 Vindicare605 wrote: So how long before we region lock Neeb? His dominance this year has been Stephano like, it almost doesn't seem fair anymore to keep putting him in the WCS tournaments when he's such an obvious favorite all of the time. Wahhhhh. How about everyone else gets better and actually challenges him? LOL you totally missed my sarcasm. Nice try though. My point is that Neeb's dominance has every bit of the same feeling to it as Polt's, Taeja's, Life's or MC's. The tournaments simply don't seem fair because Neeb is so far and ahead from EVERY other player in it and has been all year long and stretching back into 2016. Yet no one is ACTUALLY calling for him to be banned from the tournament because he's an American player instead of Korean. Where's the difference? He's dominating these tournaments barely looking challenged while doing it and it's making the experience of watching these tournaments every bit as dull as the foreign scene was looking when it was being dominated by whichever choice Korean players got invited as was the case a few years ago. The whole case for region locking was to bring up the ENTIRETY of the foreign scene not just for one standout player to emerge. Who is to say a player of Neeb's caliber wouldn't have emerged regardless of region locking? I guess we'll see at Blizzcon whether Neeb is the actual real thing or if he's just making a mockery of a super weak foreign scene. Right now the entire aspect of region locking just leaves a sour taste in people's mouth when they talk about Neeb since he is so dominant yet hasn't been able to play against the ACTUAL best in the world all year long, unlike other notable foreigners like Major, Scarlett and Elazer, who while are top tier players in the foreign scene could barely scratch wins in the GSL's Ro32. Neeb might be the one quality player in the foreign scene that could actually stand up in that tournament and yet he hasn't competed in it. Like I said, it leaves a sour taste. | ||
Poopi
France12738 Posts
On September 12 2017 08:11 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Show nested quote + On September 12 2017 08:07 PuddleZerg wrote: On September 11 2017 18:34 Shuffleblade wrote: On September 11 2017 18:02 Vindicare605 wrote: On September 11 2017 17:28 Clevername02 wrote: On September 11 2017 16:45 Mun_Su wrote: Wcs welfare are bringing so much money to Neeb. Do you consider the GSL to be Korean Welfare? Why do Koreans have to have their own tournament that has an offline qualifier and that spans several months making it absurdly difficult for non Koreans to participate in it? If the GSL were modified to make it easier for non-Koreans to participate then they could allow Koreans into the WCS Circuit. I'm sure you have some justification though for why its okay for Koreans to get 9 tournaments this year with either offline qualifiers in Korea or online qualifiers on the Korean server. But clearly the problem is that non-Koreans got to have 4 measly tournaments just for them. Clearly that is just terrible that that happened. Oh please, the GSL tournaments have global qualifiers that anyone can enter. Literally anyone, any time. WCS is specifically designed to limit the participation of players not living in the countries they are playing from. Don't act like they are the same thing. They are not the same thing, but they are identical in the fact that none of them are welfare ^_^ No one should be surprised that hyperbole get answered with hyperbole. Both are half right and half wrong so lets stop beating the dead mule. You know, I remember when Koreans were allowed in WCS and why they locked it in the first place. You'll be reminded at Blizzcon. Also was anyone else bothered when Neeb said he had "natural talent"? I REMEMBER YOUR TERRAN NEEB, WHERE WAS THE TALENT THEN?! His Terran was decent for a 14 year old kid, if I recall. That's quite a bs excuse lol. Raynor and Clem are very good young players for their age, but they most probably won't ever dominate the game. However, they might be able to do very well on another similar game! (example: Stephano was decent in warcraft 3 as a young player but he only reached his full potential on another game) Neeb wouldn't have been as successful with terran because no foreign terran can, and Neeb is a foreigner. It just won't happen on sc2 unless Blizzard changes a lot of stuff. On September 12 2017 12:11 AxiomBlurr wrote: Show nested quote + On September 12 2017 11:05 Bayaz90 wrote: Neeb has a 46% winrate vs Koreans in Offline events (Stephano's was 49% btw). Innovation's is 64%... that alone shows that Neeb doesn't even deserve a second thought. The fact that so many players think he is so good shows that the region lock did what Blizzard wanted-- create artificial hype for the hometown heroes, kind of like how people love TSM even though they are not even good enough to scrim Korean teams, but at Blizzcon he will get embarrassed. 1) This stands if it was the same game, LotV in its current state is twice as hard as WoL or HotS ever was...and that goes for all races... 2) Neeb won a serious comp in Korea (this counts for 5 major wins at least!) Therefore Neeb is the best foreigner ever... Is this a troll? :D I know it is but it's still impressive how that doesn't make any sense. | ||
nimdil
Poland3746 Posts
On September 11 2017 18:23 Meeii wrote: Show nested quote + On September 11 2017 18:00 Vindicare605 wrote: So how long before we region lock Neeb? His dominance this year has been Stephano like, it almost doesn't seem fair anymore to keep putting him in the WCS tournaments when he's such an obvious favorite all of the time. Just wait, it will happen. Neeb has everything that is required for a region lock - better than everyone else and no "fun" personality. TBH I think he dominates foreign scene more than Stephano did. What is different is that Stephano prevailed even though koreans traveled happily around the world and the korean scene was more thriving (I mean - no korean teams or s.t.) I think. Hard to compare the two - Stephano dominated when SC2 was growing, Neeb is dominating when scene is (I feel) declining. | ||
Vindicare605
United States15883 Posts
On September 12 2017 18:54 nimdil wrote: Show nested quote + On September 11 2017 18:23 Meeii wrote: On September 11 2017 18:00 Vindicare605 wrote: So how long before we region lock Neeb? His dominance this year has been Stephano like, it almost doesn't seem fair anymore to keep putting him in the WCS tournaments when he's such an obvious favorite all of the time. Just wait, it will happen. Neeb has everything that is required for a region lock - better than everyone else and no "fun" personality. TBH I think he dominates foreign scene more than Stephano did. What is different is that Stephano prevailed even though koreans traveled happily around the world and the korean scene was more thriving (I mean - no korean teams or s.t.) I think. Hard to compare the two - Stephano dominated when SC2 was growing, Neeb is dominating when scene is (I feel) declining. Exactly my point. It's very hard to give Neeb fair praise for his dominance because he's doing it with the gigantic asterisk of "REGION LOCKING" stamped all over all of his accomplishments. Stephano remains the hands down best foreigner because his dominance was done in the face of otherwise Korean dominance in the foreign scene at the height of the game's popularity. Neeb hasn't accomplished anything like that. | ||
Poopi
France12738 Posts
On September 12 2017 18:54 nimdil wrote: Show nested quote + On September 11 2017 18:23 Meeii wrote: On September 11 2017 18:00 Vindicare605 wrote: So how long before we region lock Neeb? His dominance this year has been Stephano like, it almost doesn't seem fair anymore to keep putting him in the WCS tournaments when he's such an obvious favorite all of the time. Just wait, it will happen. Neeb has everything that is required for a region lock - better than everyone else and no "fun" personality. TBH I think he dominates foreign scene more than Stephano did. What is different is that Stephano prevailed even though koreans traveled happily around the world and the korean scene was more thriving (I mean - no korean teams or s.t.) I think. Hard to compare the two - Stephano dominated when SC2 was growing, Neeb is dominating when scene is (I feel) declining. Foreigner scene right now is easier to dominate than before. If Nerchio is right and protoss is really that strong in PvZ if played well, Neeb has it easy because there are a bazillion zergs, one protoss and no terran. If you think about it, it's quite a joke. | ||
Corvuuss
Austria354 Posts
On September 12 2017 19:14 Poopi wrote: Show nested quote + On September 12 2017 18:54 nimdil wrote: On September 11 2017 18:23 Meeii wrote: On September 11 2017 18:00 Vindicare605 wrote: So how long before we region lock Neeb? His dominance this year has been Stephano like, it almost doesn't seem fair anymore to keep putting him in the WCS tournaments when he's such an obvious favorite all of the time. Just wait, it will happen. Neeb has everything that is required for a region lock - better than everyone else and no "fun" personality. TBH I think he dominates foreign scene more than Stephano did. What is different is that Stephano prevailed even though koreans traveled happily around the world and the korean scene was more thriving (I mean - no korean teams or s.t.) I think. Hard to compare the two - Stephano dominated when SC2 was growing, Neeb is dominating when scene is (I feel) declining. Foreigner scene right now is easier to dominate than before. If Nerchio is right and protoss is really that strong in PvZ if played well, Neeb has it easy because there are a bazillion zergs, one protoss and no terran. If you think about it, it's quite a joke. If you count a bazillion zergs you have to count two Terrans not none | ||
Poopi
France12738 Posts
On September 12 2017 19:16 Corvuuss wrote: Show nested quote + On September 12 2017 19:14 Poopi wrote: On September 12 2017 18:54 nimdil wrote: On September 11 2017 18:23 Meeii wrote: On September 11 2017 18:00 Vindicare605 wrote: So how long before we region lock Neeb? His dominance this year has been Stephano like, it almost doesn't seem fair anymore to keep putting him in the WCS tournaments when he's such an obvious favorite all of the time. Just wait, it will happen. Neeb has everything that is required for a region lock - better than everyone else and no "fun" personality. TBH I think he dominates foreign scene more than Stephano did. What is different is that Stephano prevailed even though koreans traveled happily around the world and the korean scene was more thriving (I mean - no korean teams or s.t.) I think. Hard to compare the two - Stephano dominated when SC2 was growing, Neeb is dominating when scene is (I feel) declining. Foreigner scene right now is easier to dominate than before. If Nerchio is right and protoss is really that strong in PvZ if played well, Neeb has it easy because there are a bazillion zergs, one protoss and no terran. If you think about it, it's quite a joke. If you count a bazillion zergs you have to count two Terrans not none What? No foreigner has a shot at winning a premier foreign tournament with terran. Special almost did it iirc but he went to Korea to train hard but still couldn't beat Snute of all people. So no, there are a lot of zergs that can win tourneys in the foreign scene, and they did, and one protoss other than Neeb: ShoWTimE. | ||
LDaVinci
France130 Posts
This would probably have never happened without regionlock. I really feel his run in WCS (repeatedly) is top korean level. All foreigners are getting better, cause more money for them means more reason to practice. And losing only 2 maps, is not something easy. All top eight players can take maps of top koreans. So maybe he isn't top 3, but I would put this performance at top ten level. And aligulac seems to agree on that by putting him top 1. On my opinion, region locking did its job pretty well by making the scene better. Yes, sure, one of the foreigners is way ahead, but nobody is considering locking Innovation, right ? Plus, top eight still get a good amount of money, making them wanna fight for places and even why not first place, as Elazer managed to do. Let's see what happens in Blizzcon. Last year was a nice surprise with some foreigners making good run. I'm sure this can happen again this year. I mean Scarlett made it to GSL and isn't even qualified for Blizzcon. This must give some credit to the other players, no ? | ||
DudeMan260
United States17 Posts
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nimdil
Poland3746 Posts
On September 12 2017 19:08 Vindicare605 wrote: Show nested quote + On September 12 2017 18:54 nimdil wrote: On September 11 2017 18:23 Meeii wrote: On September 11 2017 18:00 Vindicare605 wrote: So how long before we region lock Neeb? His dominance this year has been Stephano like, it almost doesn't seem fair anymore to keep putting him in the WCS tournaments when he's such an obvious favorite all of the time. Just wait, it will happen. Neeb has everything that is required for a region lock - better than everyone else and no "fun" personality. TBH I think he dominates foreign scene more than Stephano did. What is different is that Stephano prevailed even though koreans traveled happily around the world and the korean scene was more thriving (I mean - no korean teams or s.t.) I think. Hard to compare the two - Stephano dominated when SC2 was growing, Neeb is dominating when scene is (I feel) declining. Exactly my point. It's very hard to give Neeb fair praise for his dominance because he's doing it with the gigantic asterisk of "REGION LOCKING" stamped all over all of his accomplishments. Stephano remains the hands down best foreigner because his dominance was done in the face of otherwise Korean dominance in the foreign scene at the height of the game's popularity. Neeb hasn't accomplished anything like that. Well Both NaNi and HuK have claim IMO and unlike Stephano they did fairly well in preparation format (GSL). Especially NaNi was impressive at the time even if his career ended with only 2 premier wins. | ||
Poopi
France12738 Posts
On September 12 2017 20:39 nimdil wrote: Show nested quote + On September 12 2017 19:08 Vindicare605 wrote: On September 12 2017 18:54 nimdil wrote: On September 11 2017 18:23 Meeii wrote: On September 11 2017 18:00 Vindicare605 wrote: So how long before we region lock Neeb? His dominance this year has been Stephano like, it almost doesn't seem fair anymore to keep putting him in the WCS tournaments when he's such an obvious favorite all of the time. Just wait, it will happen. Neeb has everything that is required for a region lock - better than everyone else and no "fun" personality. TBH I think he dominates foreign scene more than Stephano did. What is different is that Stephano prevailed even though koreans traveled happily around the world and the korean scene was more thriving (I mean - no korean teams or s.t.) I think. Hard to compare the two - Stephano dominated when SC2 was growing, Neeb is dominating when scene is (I feel) declining. Exactly my point. It's very hard to give Neeb fair praise for his dominance because he's doing it with the gigantic asterisk of "REGION LOCKING" stamped all over all of his accomplishments. Stephano remains the hands down best foreigner because his dominance was done in the face of otherwise Korean dominance in the foreign scene at the height of the game's popularity. Neeb hasn't accomplished anything like that. Well Both NaNi and HuK have claim IMO and unlike Stephano they did fairly well in preparation format (GSL). Especially NaNi was impressive at the time even if his career ended with only 2 premier wins. It's not that Stephano wasn't that good in preparation format iirc, he just didn't give much of a shit about GSL because it wasn't a good investment monetary wise, and he didn't care much about the prestige of a "Korean starleague" because well, he doesn't come from BW. He was decently good in proleague among the foreigners afaik, so he is decent in it. tl;dr: you can't say that HuK and NaNi were doing better than Stephano in preparation format, because he never really played such tournaments (at least not enough times to be able to compare) so we can't really know. Since he was a better player overall I'd say he trumps them even in this format, but he liked partying and winning easy $$$ too much. edit: the tl;dr is longer than the original post :D not enough sleep sorry. | ||
Phredxor
New Zealand15075 Posts
On September 12 2017 17:59 Vindicare605 wrote: Show nested quote + On September 12 2017 00:04 Myrddrael wrote: On September 11 2017 18:00 Vindicare605 wrote: So how long before we region lock Neeb? His dominance this year has been Stephano like, it almost doesn't seem fair anymore to keep putting him in the WCS tournaments when he's such an obvious favorite all of the time. Wahhhhh. How about everyone else gets better and actually challenges him? LOL you totally missed my sarcasm. Nice try though. My point is that Neeb's dominance has every bit of the same feeling to it as Polt's, Taeja's, Life's or MC's. The tournaments simply don't seem fair because Neeb is so far and ahead from EVERY other player in it and has been all year long and stretching back into 2016. Yet no one is ACTUALLY calling for him to be banned from the tournament because he's an American player instead of Korean. Where's the difference? He's dominating these tournaments barely looking challenged while doing it and it's making the experience of watching these tournaments every bit as dull as the foreign scene was looking when it was being dominated by whichever choice Korean players got invited as was the case a few years ago. The whole case for region locking was to bring up the ENTIRETY of the foreign scene not just for one standout player to emerge. Who is to say a player of Neeb's caliber wouldn't have emerged regardless of region locking? I guess we'll see at Blizzcon whether Neeb is the actual real thing or if he's just making a mockery of a super weak foreign scene. Right now the entire aspect of region locking just leaves a sour taste in people's mouth when they talk about Neeb since he is so dominant yet hasn't been able to play against the ACTUAL best in the world all year long, unlike other notable foreigners like Major, Scarlett and Elazer, who while are top tier players in the foreign scene could barely scratch wins in the GSL's Ro32. Neeb might be the one quality player in the foreign scene that could actually stand up in that tournament and yet he hasn't competed in it. Like I said, it leaves a sour taste. That's because he failed in the qualifiers. So obviously he wasn't gonna do any better. | ||
Bagration
United States18282 Posts
On September 12 2017 19:08 Vindicare605 wrote: Show nested quote + On September 12 2017 18:54 nimdil wrote: On September 11 2017 18:23 Meeii wrote: On September 11 2017 18:00 Vindicare605 wrote: So how long before we region lock Neeb? His dominance this year has been Stephano like, it almost doesn't seem fair anymore to keep putting him in the WCS tournaments when he's such an obvious favorite all of the time. Just wait, it will happen. Neeb has everything that is required for a region lock - better than everyone else and no "fun" personality. TBH I think he dominates foreign scene more than Stephano did. What is different is that Stephano prevailed even though koreans traveled happily around the world and the korean scene was more thriving (I mean - no korean teams or s.t.) I think. Hard to compare the two - Stephano dominated when SC2 was growing, Neeb is dominating when scene is (I feel) declining. Exactly my point. It's very hard to give Neeb fair praise for his dominance because he's doing it with the gigantic asterisk of "REGION LOCKING" stamped all over all of his accomplishments. Stephano remains the hands down best foreigner because his dominance was done in the face of otherwise Korean dominance in the foreign scene at the height of the game's popularity. Neeb hasn't accomplished anything like that. For me, Neeb is greater than Stephano due to the Kespa Cup win. Dude won a premier in Korea against Koreans. Stephano was great but didn't really accomplish anything in Korea. | ||
hiroshOne
Poland424 Posts
Neeb is doing incredible well especially in PvZ because Protoss is broken in that matchup. It's not only my opinion, as it would matter anyway (I'm just diamond player) but many pros as well- Nerchio for example. And u won't say that he doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm not saying that Neeb isn't good player. He is, but lots of his dominance is coming from number of Zerg pros in foreign scene and how Protoss is in favor in fighting them. He just abuses that favorable elements more and better than any other foreign protoss. User was warned for this post | ||
FrkFrJss
Canada1205 Posts
On September 13 2017 00:14 hiroshOne wrote: Shocker: Neeb is doing incredible well especially in PvZ because Protoss is broken in that matchup. It's not only my opinion, as it would matter anyway (I'm just diamond player) but many pros as well- Nerchio for example. And u won't say that he doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm not saying that Neeb isn't good player. He is, but lots of his dominance is coming from number of Zerg pros in foreign scene and how Protoss is in favor in fighting them. He just abuses that favorable elements more and better than any other foreign protoss. I mean....you did look at the Protoss winrate without Neeb, right? Plus, if it were really that imbalanced, I feel like the Korean region, with stronger Protoss, would be even more dominant in PvZ. But as it is, I don't really think the Zerg are doing that much worse than Protoss. | ||
brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On September 13 2017 00:38 FrkFrJss wrote: Show nested quote + On September 13 2017 00:14 hiroshOne wrote: Shocker: Neeb is doing incredible well especially in PvZ because Protoss is broken in that matchup. It's not only my opinion, as it would matter anyway (I'm just diamond player) but many pros as well- Nerchio for example. And u won't say that he doesn't know what he's talking about. I'm not saying that Neeb isn't good player. He is, but lots of his dominance is coming from number of Zerg pros in foreign scene and how Protoss is in favor in fighting them. He just abuses that favorable elements more and better than any other foreign protoss. I mean....you did look at the Protoss winrate without Neeb, right? Plus, if it were really that imbalanced, I feel like the Korean region, with stronger Protoss, would be even more dominant in PvZ. But as it is, I don't really think the Zerg are doing that much worse than Protoss. honestly the way zerg is designed zerg always tends to get bad a long time after major expansions/patches and as the meta settles. as toss and terran get better and better at doing the safest most efficient harass it becomes very difficult for zerg to efficiently defend and win games without taking risks and using gimmicks. it's just the drone/larva mechanic. zerg needs to conserve economy and naturally bleeds units, so as matchups get closer and more technical zerg struggles. this isn't even a balance thing, it's just design. as a zerg player i don't think zerg is underpowered at all, it's just hard to succeed with zerg in a calm metagame this is also why zerg stays strong at casual ladder levels, because the game isn't as technical and precise | ||
Hadronsbecrazy
United Kingdom551 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8946 Posts
On September 12 2017 19:21 Poopi wrote: Show nested quote + On September 12 2017 19:16 Corvuuss wrote: On September 12 2017 19:14 Poopi wrote: On September 12 2017 18:54 nimdil wrote: On September 11 2017 18:23 Meeii wrote: On September 11 2017 18:00 Vindicare605 wrote: So how long before we region lock Neeb? His dominance this year has been Stephano like, it almost doesn't seem fair anymore to keep putting him in the WCS tournaments when he's such an obvious favorite all of the time. Just wait, it will happen. Neeb has everything that is required for a region lock - better than everyone else and no "fun" personality. TBH I think he dominates foreign scene more than Stephano did. What is different is that Stephano prevailed even though koreans traveled happily around the world and the korean scene was more thriving (I mean - no korean teams or s.t.) I think. Hard to compare the two - Stephano dominated when SC2 was growing, Neeb is dominating when scene is (I feel) declining. Foreigner scene right now is easier to dominate than before. If Nerchio is right and protoss is really that strong in PvZ if played well, Neeb has it easy because there are a bazillion zergs, one protoss and no terran. If you think about it, it's quite a joke. If you count a bazillion zergs you have to count two Terrans not none What? No foreigner has a shot at winning a premier foreign tournament with terran. Special almost did it iirc but he went to Korea to train hard but still couldn't beat Snute of all people. So no, there are a lot of zergs that can win tourneys in the foreign scene, and they did, and one protoss other than Neeb: ShoWTimE. Special is the only guy to beat Neeb in playoffs, he also made Serral look like a noob in their series. To say he doesn't have a shot at winning a WCS event is stupid. He's the reason Neeb didn't win all four | ||
Fango
United Kingdom8946 Posts
On September 12 2017 23:17 Bagration wrote: Show nested quote + On September 12 2017 19:08 Vindicare605 wrote: On September 12 2017 18:54 nimdil wrote: On September 11 2017 18:23 Meeii wrote: On September 11 2017 18:00 Vindicare605 wrote: So how long before we region lock Neeb? His dominance this year has been Stephano like, it almost doesn't seem fair anymore to keep putting him in the WCS tournaments when he's such an obvious favorite all of the time. Just wait, it will happen. Neeb has everything that is required for a region lock - better than everyone else and no "fun" personality. TBH I think he dominates foreign scene more than Stephano did. What is different is that Stephano prevailed even though koreans traveled happily around the world and the korean scene was more thriving (I mean - no korean teams or s.t.) I think. Hard to compare the two - Stephano dominated when SC2 was growing, Neeb is dominating when scene is (I feel) declining. Exactly my point. It's very hard to give Neeb fair praise for his dominance because he's doing it with the gigantic asterisk of "REGION LOCKING" stamped all over all of his accomplishments. Stephano remains the hands down best foreigner because his dominance was done in the face of otherwise Korean dominance in the foreign scene at the height of the game's popularity. Neeb hasn't accomplished anything like that. For me, Neeb is greater than Stephano due to the Kespa Cup win. Dude won a premier in Korea against Koreans. Stephano was great but didn't really accomplish anything in Korea. Stephano had consistancy against koreans. Neeb won kespa cup of the back of PvP, and has failed to live up to that hype ever since (as far as winning against koreans goes) | ||
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