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**TeamLiquid now has a group on what I consider to be the best GPS/logging site out there: Strava. You can join the group here: http://www.strava.com/clubs/Teamliquid**
A thread for all my fellow TL'ers who run. A place to discuss goals, training, racing, motivation; anything related to running. Should be a little easier now that everything won't get lost in all the traffic of one mega-thread.
Useful/Good Articles/Training Concepts
- Beginner/Starting Running
+ Show Spoiler +For those new to running their are a few common mistakes that many people make. The first is just plain doing too much, too soon. A general guideline reference is to increase mileage about 10% per week, with every 3/4 week being a cutback week of maybe 50-75% of the distance you just achieved. Obviously some people can increase much faster than this, and others will get an injury even following these guidelines. For people new to running its safe to add a day per week until your running 6/7 days a week, stay at the previous weeks number of days if that week felt particularly demanding. The other common mistake is running too hard. Perhaps because of PE/sports/etc. their is this mentality of "no pain, no gain" when running. This is wrong. Especially for beginner the key is adjusting to running and finding some enjoyment out of it. This probably won't happen if your hammering every run at 5K pace - 10 seconds. If you EVER have to take a break to walk (and its just not immense fatigue from long distance) your running WAY to hard. To give some basic guidelines if you can RACE a mile in: 5:00 - Normal running @ 7:00-7:45 pace/mile 5:30 - Normal running @ 7:30-8:45 pace/mile 6:00 - Normal running @ 8:15-9:00 pace/mile 6:30 - Normal running @ 9:00-9:45 pace/mile 7:00 - Normal running @ 9:30-10:15 pace/mile 7:30 - Normal running @ 10:15-11:00 pace/mile 8:00 - Normal running @ 11:00-11:45 pace/mile 8:30 - Normal running @ 11:30-12:15 pace/mile 9:00 - Normal running @ 12:15-13:00 pace/mile 10:00 - Normal running @ 13:30-14:15 pace/mile 12:00 - Normal running @ 16:00-17:00 pace/mile For those totally new to running that have been sedentary/non-athletic most their life here is one of the best introductions to running out there: Couch to 5K For those that have maintained a minimal level of activity beyond being sedentary its reasonable to jump in at 3-4 days a week of 3-4 miles. Progressing by adding a day per week until you reach 6 or 7 days per week. Mileage can be increased from there.
- Injuries:
+ Show Spoiler +General recommendation for most injuries is if the pain lessens, and perhaps if its mild and doesn't intensify you can continue to run on it. If the pain increases as you run, definitely stop. Nothing like turning a mild case of achilles tendinitis into a long term case of prolonged achilles tendinosis. You really have to listen to your body on these though. For the non-competitive runner running for fitness, its probably wise to just play it safe and take a a day or two off at any hints of injury. If your training competitively or for an important event then you really just need to try to listen to and judge the injury. Obvious training with anything other than routine soreness runs the risk of turning something minor into something serious, however, if you break training for every possible suggestion of injury you probably won't put together very good blocks of training. Great general listing of possible running injuries, descriptions, and treatments: The Fix: Primer for Running Injuries Not gospel obviously, but can help give you an idea of what may be going on the necessary PT to prevent recurrences.
- Glossary of Running Terms:
+ Show Spoiler +Racing Flat/Flat - Very lightweight shoes designed for long distance racing Trainer - Standard, heavier, and generally more supportive shoe used primarily for training due to wearing out less frequently than thinner racing flats
Easy Run - light run for general aerobic development; usually can converse easily with a partner, breathing rhythm usually around 2/2-3/3. Typically 60-75% of max heart rate. Marathon Pace/M-Pace/Aerobic Threshold Pace - usually fastest aerobic pace, obviously pace at which you could run for a marathon. Approx 40-60 second slower than 5K race pace Tempo/T-Pace Run - A common term that refers to several different run types. Tempo's typically have three popular durations, 20-30 min, 40-60 min, and extended tempos of 60-80 min. Correct pacing is around 5K+20-25 seconds per mile for short ones, 5K+35-40 seconds per mile for the medium, and 5K+50-60 seconds per mile for the longer ones. Reps - Fast track intervals @ around mile race pace w/recovery time twice that of repeat (400m in 75 seconds = 150 second slow jog recovery). Used to build economy at speed and make fast paces seem easier Intervals/V02 Max Interval - Longer repeats at slower pace with less recovery. Usually 1:1 recovery/repeat at around 3K-5K race pace (1200m in 3:30 w/3:30 jog recovery). Long Run - run longer than typical for YOUR mileage. Usually around 20% of weekly mileage (aka runner running 60mpw might run around 11-13 miles for a long run) Fartlek - Swedish for "speed play". A run that can be pretty much whatever a runner wants. Can involve just picking random targets and running as hard as desired toward them and then recovery for however long you want, or can be structured as in 2 min "ON", 2 min "OFF". Strides - Short pickups of about 50-100m done anywhere from 400m-1600m race pace. Serve to "stay in touch" with speed and maintain neuromuscular coordination for fast paces. NOT meant to be hard.
Kick - runners strong finish to the end of a race; crucial to winning championship races which are generally slower and more tactical in nature Tactial Race - typically slower pace, refers to a race in which different runners try to force the race to their strengths. Ex: a super fast runner might want to wait till 100m to go before kicking hard for home, while the slower, but stronger runner might really pick up the pace with 400m+ to go and try to "run the kick out of" the faster runner. Move - An increase in speed to either pass runners, obtain position, or make a move for the win. It's said you get one move in the 800m, 2 in the 1500m, and 3 in the 5000m/10000m Surge - Increase in pace of the race by a runner Stagger - difference in starting places to account for varying radius of the curves in races that are fixed lane or partially fixed lane. Turnover - basically a runners stride, turnover essentially referring to the length and rate of stride Cadence - Steps per minute Mileage - miles run, usually given as a weekly value MPW, mpw - miles per week Raw Speed - Most common measure is an athletes 200m time Speed - Generally refers to top end gear, but for distance runners is often cited as 400m speed. Ex: A world class 800m runner likely has 45-47 second speed V02 Max - measure of maximum oxygen uptake vV02 max - Velocity at V02 Max, lowest speed at which an athlete is at maximum oxygen consumption. Usually occurs between 3K and 5K pace Anaerobic Threshold - inflection point on the lactic acid accumulation curve, at which point blood levels of lacate increase significantly faster. Usually around high end tempo pace, a little slower than 10K pace. Bonk - usually applies to marathon, occurs when a runner goes out to hard and deplets glycogen too soon resulting in a massive increase in speed and major pace drop off Elite - top level runner LSD - long, slow distance Negative Split - last half of race faster than first Overpronate - Higher than normal amount of inward roll of the foot Heelstrike - generally undesirable stride in which the foot lands forward of center of gravity resulting in a braking effect and extra stress Splits - Times at specific distances. Ex: in a 5K might have splits read every K, in a mile splits might be read every 400m World Best - best time for an event without official world records, or a non-ratified world record. Ex: marathon world record is 2:03:59, world best is 2:03:02 World Lead - best time run for an event in that calendar year NR - National Record
- Running Form:
+ Show Spoiler + **All credit for this goes to Airblade Orange. **
Head
Your head and neck should look as if you were standing still as someone was measuring your height and you want to squeeze in every extra millimeter possible. Your head should be up tall and your eyes should be looking straight ahead. It helps to focus on an object in the near distance that you are aiming for. If you are racing stare at the back of a runner a little ahead of you. Do not stare at the ground because it will likely mess up the form of your midsection.
Arms
While you are swinging your arms visualize there is a vertical line in the middle of your chest. Do not cross any part of either arm over to the other side. Also make sure your arms are not swinging too far to the outside on the other side of your body. Keep your arms swinging between your imaginary vertical chest line and your shoulder. Your right arm should be between your right shoulder and the vertical chest line and your left arm should be between your left shoulder and the chest line.
Keep your elbows bent at about 45 degrees. Your elbows should not be doing much bending or straightening as you are running; keep them at close to 45 degrees the whole time.
Maintain stable wrists throughout your movements. Do not bend them in any way.
Keep your hands in a loose fist. If they are too tight you will be using unnecessary energy and if they are too lose you will look like a not as cool T-1000. Maybe if you're a sprinter you can do the T-1000 with your hands completely straight, but not as a distance runner. I like to keep my thumbs on the top and outside of my pointer finger rather than wrapping around a fist. Your thumb will be straight and pointing away from you if you do it this way. Doing it like this helps me focus on keeping a loose hand and straight wrist.
Chest/Back
Your chest should be just as it would be if you were standing still, straight, and tall. Your back will be straight as well. If you find that you are leaning forward, make sure you are looking ahead of you rather than below you. Also, you may have weak abdominal muscles that prevent you from running up straight and tall. I ran like this for the first couple of years when I started because I had no abs.
Hips
Keep your hips underneath you and forward you as if you're banging a hot girl and you're about to ejaculate. Practice this in front of a mirror without a shirt when nobody else is around or someone you are trying to impress IS around. Keeping your hips forward will help your body drive forward.
Legs
This is where most runners tend to need the most work. You should be hitting about 3 strides per second when you are running at a moderately fast to fast pace. This means that your feet are striking the ground at a rate of 3 steps per second. This is the most efficient way to run for distance runners but is difficult and probably not worth doing if you're not running fast (relative to your own ability). But the next time you are running faster, whether it's a tempo run, strides, or whatever, try this out. Count how many steps you take in 10 seconds. How close is it to 30? You probably need to be taking more and shorter steps.
Pick up your feet as soon as they hit the ground. It sounds obvious but really make an effort to think about this as you are running. The longer your feet stay on the ground the more momentum you are losing. Keep them legs moving fast and forward. Try running in place with this principle in mind.
Pick up your feet higher than where you perceive your knee to be. While some people (usually old people) prefer the marathon shuffle, keeping your legs moving in a more circular manner, you can increase your efficiency as long as you use all of these leg tips together. Just go watch some videos of elite distance runners to get a visual or this or anything else being described. Most elites have excellent form, specifically in the beginning of races before they get too tired. This is another technique that is difficult to do unless you are running fast. But when you are running fast this will make you fast AND smooth.
This last tip can be debated but I'll lay it down anyway. Strike the ground with your mid foot. Heel striking is very common and the normal way most people run when they slip on running shoes. This is interesting because if you run barefoot you will be mid foot striking. Try it out. I am a believer in the benefits of barefoot and minimalist shoe training, but that is a topic for another time. I still think a mid foot strike to be the best bet here. Not only is it the most natural way for humans to run but it also keeps your feet on the ground for less time. Remember that you are fighting inertia and need to keep your feet off the ground and your legs driving forward.
American<->SI Pace Conversion Tool (credit: Malinor) + Show Spoiler +
List of TLer Training Logs: + Show Spoiler +
TL Members 2016 Goals/Progress: Feel free to post up your goals for upcoming year, season, target race, etc. I will keep them updated.
+ Show Spoiler +
*Added a section to the OP for training logs. If you log your running online in an accessible form feel free to post your log up and I will add them to the OP.*
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Let's hear what people are planning for 2017!
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I dream of a sub-2:30 marathon in the fall, but right now I can't get my stupid Achilles tendon to stop swelling. So mostly I'm planning to give a bunch of money to the physiotherapy industry. If my injury persists into the spring, I might try a few longer bike rides.
What's on deck for you, L_Master?
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This has been a goal of mine for what feels like two years now, but I am fully committed to running a 19:xx 5k in the spring. I easily have the speed (ran a 5:47 mile last year but never actually signed up to really go for broke in a 5k, instead ended up focusing on mileage/marathon) I just need to actually get the result hammered out.
this Spring I'm going to actually put in the speed work (start doing some 400's at least once a week) and spend time actually doing some strength training. Then pick a goal race sometime in the March/April timeframe. With probably a tune up race here or there as well.
Beyond that I also will probably look at doing another fall Marathon, would love to run NYC but it's difficult to get in through the lottery.
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8713 Posts
I spent several months in 2016 not exercising at all due to a back injury. 2017 now has all my hopes. I'm still focusing on half marathons. This is my current plan (PR attempts in bold):
January 7 - Half Marathon. Orlando, FL January 15 - Half Marathon. Anaheim, CA May 21 - 12k. San Francisco, CA May 27 - Half Marathon. Concord, CA July 16 - Half Marathon. Napa/Sonoma, CA November 12 - Half Marathon. Monterey, CA November 23 - 10k (local turkey trot)
Dream big goals: 1:13:xx, 1:09:xx, 1:07:xx, 29:xx (at that turkey trot)
Actual goals: 1:14:xx, 1:12:xx, 1:09:xx, 31:xx
Basic goal: Don't get injured. Finally do some real training consistently for a while and see how fast I actually am. If I'm not as fast as all these goals, ok. Reevaluate for 2018.
Last year I ran 1:25:04 on August 28 and 1:18:19 on November 13. Based on my training, I think I'll be able to reach my first goal on January 15 but after that I'll be headed into unknown territory (current PR 1:16:32 from April 2016)
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2016 Recap
Training: B-
First part of the year was in many ways quite solid, but I really battled illness. I was sick 4 or 5 times in the first 4 months of the year, and while my training was good, that definitely did some damage to it. From May-Aug my training was mediocre. I did alot of Pikes Peak specific workouts, but didn't really establish progress and build into the program, nor did I have sufficient variety. After that, I tried to do some running but ended up with an injury (largey due to a VERY aggressive build) and then just kinda dicked around on the bike till November.
Weight Loss: C
I went from 69kg down to almost 64kg in the first 6 weeks. I was killing it. Ate great, no soda, super limited junk. Just drilling it. Then I started the illness train, and between feeling sorry for myself and also making sure to eat enough when sick that I could fight infection I began to gain it back, and was back to 69kg before my first race in March. Then on that trip I ate like a dumbass and went up a little higher, towards 71kg. After that, I guess I lost the motivation flame and ate mediocre with no real changes in weight over most of the summer. Raced basically everything at about 70kg until Aug, when I did manage to drop about 2.5kg or so for Pikes Peak. Intended to take some time off around late October to early November from both training and diet focus, but ate too much again there, working up to about 73kg, which is getting into borderline heavy territory (18-20% BF), since then I've backed down towards about 70-71kg.
So the first 6 weeks of the season were absolutely A+, followed by D the rest of the season, borderline F. This is ALWAYS the challenge for me, and 2016 was weak here.
Nutrition: C-
Ate better quality food overall than 2015, with less binging; but still too much food from junk (maybe 20% daily cals?).
Overall Score: C
I did get a win, and some okay results along the way, but was comically far away from what I'm actually capable off.
PRs/Results
Race Results
- Tuscon Bicycle Classic SM5, 9th Stage 1, 1st Stage 2, 7th Stage 3; 3rd Overall/GC
- Air Force Road Race - 9th SM4/5
- Lafayette Crit - 5th SM5
- Superior Morgul Omnium SM5 - 14th Stage 1 TT, 6th Stage 2 Circuit Race, 4th Stage 3 RR; 4th Overall
- Pikes Peak Hill Climb Open Men 18-39 - 22nd, 1:28:31
So yea, all in all 2016 was pretty mediocre. I wouldn't say I'm bummed about it, but I didn't really set out to accomplish anything I wanted to, and certainly didn't have the season I would have liked.
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Early Thoughts:
With that in mind when it comes to 2017 I've been taking a deep, hard look really trying to figure out what I need to accomplish, and what's realistic to accomplish. I'm probably as motivated as I was in 2016, maybe even more so in some respects, but 2017 is also going to be a pretty different year. 2016 I was working part time around 30 hours a week, with a job that basically all I needed to do was show up to be successful at. 2017 is back to school for me for Electrical Engineering, and I'll likely need to work part time as well. With that in mind, cycling can't be a #1 type priority like it was in 2016. I plan to train as dillegently or moreso to what I did last year, but school/work/possibly internships may not allow for huge gains in 2017, which is fine but for now I'm optimistic
The biggest thing I've done is to try and really asses what went wrong last year. The biggest things I found were: losing focus on diet/weight loss, not racing/group riding enough, losing structure and failing to progress training at various points, not racing/group riding enough, not recovering enough (too much walking/feet time), oh and uhh not racing/group riding enough.
The bottom line is even at current weight I have the fitness to be a very competetive Cat3 rider, or pack filler P-1-2 guy. Instead I was a moderately competitive Cat 4/5 rider. Having gone back and looked at aspects of my fitness, there is just no way that's an issue as I'm clearly as strong in all areas as some of my much more successful P12 elite team teammates. The bottom line is I just suck at riding my bike. I don't make good racing decisions, I get nervy when cornering, and generally don't really ride relaxed and smooth in a pack. All of which sums to inefficient racing, with lots of wasted energy and burning of matches that leaves me unable to respond to, or be strong enough to execute, when a winning move was made. I was never dropped in an extended race section, I only lost or got gapped in strong 500+w moves (for you runners, I'd say that's like sub 4:20 or faster type efforts), where I'd burned too many anaerobic matches to be able to respond.
With that in mind, I let that be my guide for 2017 goals in order of focus:
Bike Handling/Race Tactics/Efficiency
- Group ride, group ride, group ride, at least 3-4 times a month, even if that slightly compromises training/fitness goals
- Skills practice - At least 5-10 hours a month getting out doing skills work: think bumping, pushing, cornering practice, reaching down for pencils, trackstands, bunny hop, etc. Get GOOD at riding a bike.
- Descending - make the technical skills good, and then just ride and descend as much as I can to continue to improve comfort and confidence. The nerviness of cornering fast will never go 100% away for me, but you can make yourself vastly more confident
- Money permitting race 20-30+ times, besides group riding it's really the only way you learn how to race well
Weight Loss
- 61kg by March 24 Self explanatory, weight loss is needed to ride remotely near potential. I'd have a VO2 of 77 instead of 68 if I was 61kg race lean
Nutrition
- Don't binge
- Don't drink soda
- Always get in food 30-45 mins after workout
- 1.5 g/kg protein per day
- Keep junk food calories between 5-10% on a daily basis
Performance Goals
- 1' Power - 650w, 10.5 w/kg
- 5' Power - 410w, 6.6 w/kg
- 20' Power - 340w, 5.5w/kg
- 60' Power - 320w, 5.2 w/kg
- Sub 16:30 5k
- Sub 2:50 marathon
- Not die running R2R2R of Grand Canyon in November
Race Goals
- Win Superior Morgul RR, CR, and Overall
- Win Koppenberg CR
- Win USAFA Road Race
- Win a crit race
- Top 10 all time Manitou Incline, sub 21:00
- Sub 19:00 Lookout Mtn
- Sub 40:00 Rist Canyon
- Sub 27:00 Flagstaff Climb
- Cat 3 upgrade by end of the season, Cat 2 upgrade is I get to race 20-30 times
So the plan is basically bike training in full seriousness through Mid May. From there, it depends on if my friend is still 100% interested in running R2R2R of the Grand Canyon. If so, I plan to switch to a running focus, basically doing marathon training, with a switch to heavy vert stuff a little out. I;d have 5 months to work with, which should give me enough time to build up a level of mileage before throwing in workouts, I'd be a little underprepared, but hopefully enough to give sub 2:50 a crack and certainly to qualify for Boston (which I would likely run April 18' if I did).
If he doesn't, then I'll probably continue to focus on training and race through summer on the bike, but then come back with a serious run build in September with the goal of chasing sub 2:00/4:40/16:30.
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8713 Posts
My January 7 race got canceled due to lightning. Sub-75 coming up on Sunday.
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On January 10 2017 00:53 NonY wrote: My January 7 race got canceled due to lightning. Sub-75 coming up on Sunday.
Go crush it!
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8713 Posts
1:12:25. I'm ahead of schedule :D
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On January 16 2017 00:34 NonY wrote: 1:12:25. I'm ahead of schedule :D
Whoa! Sweet moves man; that's movin'. I'm excited to see how fast you can go.
How did it go? Did you win the race? Was it a tough course? In short: tell us more!
On the Achilles front: my tendon is coming along. My physiotherapist was very positive when I saw him on Thursday. Now doing runs with no walk breaks every other day and adding one kilometre each time. I'll be up to 13k on Friday, when I see him next. I'm starting to dream a bit about doing the Sun Run, a big 10k road race in Vancouver in the spring. Probably won't have time to really get dialed in and run 32:XX, but a rust-buster goal of sub-35 would be fun.
But I'm probably getting ahead of myself. Baby steps, baby steps!
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8713 Posts
I got 5th place. Really fast course imo. It did have a lot of turns in the first 4 miles but then you run long stretches on straight roads. Very flat. Weather was pretty nice (started at low 50's, no wind, finished before the sun came out). Course Map
It's pretty weird not knowing what I'll be capable of at each race. A lot different than high school doing a race a week for 10 weeks in a row. Training gets me in the right ballpark but of course you really don't want to start off running on pace for a 1:12 if you can only run a 1:15+.
Last year at this race, the winner ran a 1:05 and then there were a few guys coming in at 1:12. The winner was back and I thought some 1:12 guys were back too so I planned on letting the pack go at the start and try to hang a little back from what I thought would be the ~1:12 pack. But there were like 8 or 9 guys in front of me at the start and I still split 16:46 for the first 5k. There are so many turns at the start, but because you're running through the theme park and there are people cheering, it's natural to run fast. So I paced myself somewhat based on the other runners (really unreliable honestly, but mentally you don't feel like you're working too hard if you let a bunch of guys go) and also on feel.
After I had done 3-4 miles at this really great pace, I tried to take mental note of how my body felt and what pace I should be settling in at for the next portion of the run. There was no pack anymore, just guys strung all along the course. I surprisingly felt great, like I hadn't worked that hard yet, so I continued to run by feel and was knocking down low 5:30 miles.
About mile 8 or 9 was when the race started for me, and definitely by mile 10 I was feeling it. Unfortunately I got a bit scared and tricked myself into taking a conservative approach -- after all, I was way ahead of my goals. If I ease up to 5:40 pace now, I'll still get an amazing PR. But what if I run some more at 5:30 and then hit a wall?
While these thoughts are running through my head and I'm working really hard and struggling, I totally lost focus and slowed down way more than I consciously decided to. The final 4 miles was the difference between 1:11 and 1:12. I did speed back up before the end, but looking at my watch splits (which were offset because I forgot to start my watch at the start), there was a 3 mile stretch where I averaged 5:39 and then the last 0.8 mile I brought it back to 5:30 pace. Next race I'm going to be ready for this phase, focus on my breathing and work through it and maintain pace. I didn't finish as exhausted as I should have been, and I blame it totally on this loss of focus and rationalizing a "conservative" approach. With better execution, I'm in the neighborhood of sub-1:12 as I come down the stretch, and then I kick to make it, properly exhausted.
Most of all I'm happy that I didn't seem to get injured at all. I do still get back pain after the race (thankfully not during) that made me limp around. It's not so bad today, but now my legs are feeling really tired and sore. Anyway, I've got some great training ahead of me. I'll be doing a lot more work at faster than race pace than I have been. The 12k I'm doing in May is an extremely competitive race that has a pack of pros and all of the regional talent so there'll be a deep field to compete against.
I'm still going to keep my goals the same. Going 1:09 in July would still be huge, and 1:07 in November absolutely awesome, so those are great for big goals. And just getting a 1:09 this year would make it a really successful year, so that's still a good goal. I know I'll hit a wall at some point but I also know that my training can reach another level so I should still expect big improvements.
Mileage since Nov 13 (ran a 1:18 half): 26.7 -- 27.6 -- 43.5 -- 42.3 -- 43.1 -- 45.6 -- 53.5 -- 40.8 -- 24 -- 31 -> Race 1:12.
Most of that was easy running (race heart rate is 175 for me, and easy running I consider 135-150). I think I count 7 workouts that were 150+ heart rate efforts. I did 2 workouts at race pace or faster. During that 53.5 mile week I had some pains in my shins/knees that were scaring me so I backed off a lot. The 24 mile week was because my other race got canceled and I was put in an awkward spot with my schedule because I couldn't just run on my own. So I just didn't run 13 miles when I was planning to, and then it was the week of my PR attempt and I like to drop mileage the week of the race.
I think I really like the 55-65 mpw zone so I'm going to safely build to that and then try to do the classic 1 long run and 2 faster workouts per week. I'm gonna be really cautious about introducing the extra volume and intensity, making sure I'm feeling like I'm on top of everything rather than struggling to keep up. So I'm expecting it to take me a while to get my routine down. Regardless, I'm staying really positive and confident that I'm going to have a great shot at shattering 70 mins in July.
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That's awesome, man. It's crazy to me that you can run this fast on that mileage.
It looks to me like you ran a pretty smart race. It's pretty rare to have perfect concentration for an entire race, or at least a race longer than a 5k. You avoided the timeless mistake of going out too hard and turning most of the race into a sufferfest.
Where do you get your workouts from? Are you running in a group? Do you have a coach?
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8713 Posts
I run alone, no coach, not following any plan. In high school my coach didn't have a running background and didn't really know what she was doing so me and some guys on the team tried to educate ourselves. I got Peter Coe's Better Training for Distance Runners (which is really technical as well) and Jack Daniels Running Formula. So I learned from those a bit about how people train. And my wife just got Pfitzinger's Faster Road Racing so I might read that too.
In the next several months I want to get closer to doing what a training plan out of those books would look like. But I kinda like doing my own thing and doing workouts I enjoy and being flexible so I'm apprehensive of having structured outside influence. I enjoy the responsibility and control and I think I'd feel less satisfaction if I copied too much or just followed a coach's plan. I'm really big on trying stuff with an open mind and judging if it clicks with me or not and then sticking to the stuff that feels natural to me. If I ran with a group, I feel like I'd end up doing workouts that I'm not really into.
Oh also my friend is coached by Antonio Vega, who won a national championship half marathon in 1:01:54. I've met him and can float questions his way. I learned from him to eat 400-600 calories 4 hours before the race. I tried it and really liked it (woke up at 1:30am to eat, went back to sleep and woke up at 4:30 for 5:30 race start). But it's nice that I can get an opinion from someone who reached that level.
If I ever start to feel lost I'll reach out for more help but I've got a pretty good idea of what I'm going to do this year at least. I think being in touch with yourself is by far the most important thing, as long as you're roughly doing normal legit training, so I'm not that concerned about missing out on optimizations atm.
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Ah, 2017. It's here already??
2016 recap: My wife and I had a daughter! 'Lowest mileage year since 2012, just barely enough pre-infant miles under my belt to qualify for Boston (3:00:30 downhill at-altitude, gut-it-out marathon). Pretty sure my goals were met, just with a little less running at the end of 2016 than I would have liked. There were reasons, but happily not because of injuries or any health problems with little gal.
2017 goals: 1) Find, in a reasonable amount of time, a decent local job with a shower/locker room on-site and a health-conscious culture. I've been getting really regular runs in since the beginning of the year, but mostly because I'm not working currently. I'm hoping to get started on a more stable career in food science (not so terrible chemicals, good goals of feeding people tasty stuff).
2) Hugely contingent on where my next job is located: I want to complete RMR's Hell Week 2017.
3) Run Boston!!! I have no idea what my goal time will be (too early to discount injury or new job taking up too much time) but I'm going to Boston and I'm going to run it!
4) Try to get in sprint/hill shape to absolutely crush the local silly 4 mile trail run (Rattlesnake Ramble). This one is near and dear to my heart, want to get back into age-group contention this year!
5) Host a good trail run or something with a local running shop to go with DreamHack Denver computer gaming activities!
Absolutely gobsmacked at the times that NonY is shooting for: good luck and wow! Bonham will make a triumphant return to marathoning and start blowing us off the Strava boards again. L_Master and I will perhaps see each other in person once again and go for a good run, maybe possibly?
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Yea that's a sweet run Nony. 1:12 is no joke, especially since you're not doing crazy training or coming in with a massive base of running 100+ mpw. Sure looks like you'll be seeing sub 70 in the not too distant future.
@Mtmentat - When is DH Denver again? I could see myself making an appearance or even helping out with a race if you want to organize something. Also when does the Rattlesnake ramble take place?
As for meeting up...yea absolutely. I'm in Fort Collins now going to school, so Boulder is like a 40 minute drive for me, significantly more accessible than before. I'll be 98% bike stuff till May/June, but after that I'll be running. Grand Canyon is still in discussion as well too.
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As for myself, I popped a damn good one yesterday, doing just shy of 380w for 6'. Best part was I had a ton left as I was able to do over 450w for the last 1'. I'd say that's sorta analogous to running something like 3:45 to the bell and being able to close with a 60 or something...there was alot there.
It's better than I did at this time last year, and I'm in a much more "basier" period than last year, so I feel like it bodes well. Now just to keep eating right and getting in as much as I can in the way of group rides/experience.
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On January 18 2017 07:23 mtmentat wrote: Bonham will make a triumphant return to marathoning and start blowing us off the Strava boards again.
Ha, we will see. The tendon is coming around and my hip/knee feel good, but I'm really trying to keep focus on getting healthy before I let my imagination run wild with race plans. When I do eventually start getting ready for a marathon, I think I'll run slightly fewer miles and use cross-training in place of some recovery runs. An hour on the bike instead of a second 10k run, type thing.
On January 18 2017 07:23 mtmentat wrote: 2016 recap: My wife and I had a daughter! 'Lowest mileage year since 2012, just barely enough pre-infant miles under my belt to qualify for Boston (3:00:30 downhill at-altitude, gut-it-out marathon). Pretty sure my goals were met, just with a little less running at the end of 2016 than I would have liked. There were reasons, but happily not because of injuries or any health problems with little gal.
Congrats! That's awesome. My brother became a dad for the first time last year, and I've been enjoying uncledom very much. (I must say it's nice to be able to hand her back to her parents when she poops/pukes/starts to cry.) I hope your little girl is doing great and sleeping through the night like a champ.
On January 18 2017 12:28 L_Master wrote: Now just to keep eating right and getting in as much as I can in the way of group rides/experience.
Man, I feel you on that. One of the many things I dislike about being injured or unable to run for whatever reason is the way weightgain creeps up on you. Plus I'm turning 30 this year, which makes me suspect my metabolism will slow down in the next few years. I foresee the need for more dietary discipline in my future. Hooray.
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8713 Posts
Yeah, diet is something I still need to work on. Like my ribs are hardly defined, mostly just a smooth surface on my torso and a bit of a belly... I think I ought to lose like 10 pounds. It's just kinda lack of focus, not some great struggle with addiction/craving/hunger. If I had someone following me around all day reminding me what to eat and not eat, I'd just say "ok" and be fine. I've shed pounds before without much anguish. So I should really get those calories counted and restricted asap so I can start to steadily drop.
Oh and I'm trying to get a better grasp on my training overall, do a better job of keeping records and knowing what I've done. I like handling things day-to-day to an extent but knowing my own training history in more detail will be useful. Thankfully I've been uploading my runs to strava so I've got some records at least since early 2016. I jotted this down for a better overview of my 2016.
jan 17 -- 1:21:58 PR (previous training unrecorded. 9 weeks of 35 mpw?) feb 22 - may 8 (11 weeks - 51 mpw) -- first significant training (1:16:32 PR) may 9 - july 24 (11 weeks - 31 mpw) -- back pain, toe pain (injured foot at bay to breakers, back from moving furniture) july 25 - sept 25 (9 weeks - 9 mpw) -- time off to recover from injuries sept 26 - nov 13 (7 weeks - 30 mpw) -- started training again for monterey (1:18:19) nov 14 - jan 15 (9 weeks - 40 mpw) -- continuing to build mileage. ~6 HQ workouts. (1:12:25 PR)
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On January 19 2017 06:51 NonY wrote: Yeah, diet is something I still need to work on. Like my ribs are hardly defined, mostly just a smooth surface on my torso and a bit of a belly... I think I ought to lose like 10 pounds. It's just kinda lack of focus, not some great struggle with addiction/craving/hunger. If I had someone following me around all day reminding me what to eat and not eat, I'd just say "ok" and be fine. I've shed pounds before without much anguish. So I should really get those calories counted and restricted asap so I can start to steadily drop.
Oh and I'm trying to get a better grasp on my training overall, do a better job of keeping records and knowing what I've done. I like handling things day-to-day to an extent but knowing my own training history in more detail will be useful. Thankfully I've been uploading my runs to strava so I've got some records at least since early 2016. I jotted this down for a better overview of my 2016.
jan 17 -- 1:21:58 PR (previous training unrecorded. 9 weeks of 35 mpw?) feb 22 - may 8 (11 weeks - 51 mpw) -- first significant training (1:16:32 PR) may 9 - july 24 (11 weeks - 31 mpw) -- back pain, toe pain (injured foot at bay to breakers, back from moving furniture) july 25 - sept 25 (9 weeks - 9 mpw) -- time off to recover from injuries sept 26 - nov 13 (7 weeks - 30 mpw) -- started training again for monterey (1:18:19) nov 14 - jan 15 (9 weeks - 40 mpw) -- continuing to build mileage. ~6 HQ workouts. (1:12:25 PR)
Yea, that's serious talent to be running like that off medium mileage and not a ton of workouts.
Not to mention 10 lbs is worth a significant amount too if you have that to lose. At a minimum it's worth 2-3 minutes, but for myself and most people I know they find closer to 2 s/mile/lb, so that's more like 5-7 minutes.
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