On December 08 2016 08:29 Bakuryu wrote:
i dont see a problem with this build. effort was in the best position and made so many mistakes that he deserved to lose.

I wasn't saying that he deserved to win here or that he played well.

TheSpectruM

New Zealand33 Posts

December 08 2016 04:11 GMT

#263

On December 08 2016 07:14 L1ghtning wrote:

Show nested quote +

It was basically a fast CC into mech goliath only build. just keep making factories and goliaths and make sure to match the ebay timing with the Muta timing and you should be ok. Against faster Muta timings, cutting scv's might be necessary to get enough defense up to deal with the early harass. You wall the nat to protect against ling attacks. He didn't get a complete wall, but ideally you would want one. Flash did something like this in early 2010. I know he used it when he destroyed Jaedong in one of the starleague finals. He also did a version in the same series where he built mnm as well and went on a mnm + goliath mid game rampage. I actually prefer that build. Basically you let the goliaths tank while the mnm do the damage. Goliath + mnm is a strong composition against anything that zerg can send at you until hive, and it's especially effective against hydras and mutas, Which is the typical response to mech builds. It's also a very effective and more importantly Swift sunken bust composition.

I believed this was the first usage of the build by Flash back in his series vs Jaedong in the Bigfile MSL finals in 2010. The build was 14cc + natural wall into fast 4 factory with 1 machine shop and immediate +1 armour upgrade, whilst skipping turrets and academy entirely. Jaedong expected standard mech and so skipped mutas and went for quick double expand but was overwhelmed by the timing attack.

Light's build incorporated an ebay before the 4th factory which turned out to be the correct choice as Effort did not skip mutas and opted for a slower expand and so was able to put up a fight against the initial goliath push.

Greg_J

China4408 Posts

December 08 2016 09:21 GMT

#264

This Rain guy is a lot better than I expected. It's an interesting dynamic we have. I don't know anything about the Starcraft 2 scene but I assume they had propper houses and intense training reigmes. He really looks sharp and in great condition. However he's playing a game he's less familiar with. Where as the old Broodwar Pro's are playing the game they have loved and played most of their life. But I am not sure streaming gives them quite the match fitness they used to have when they lived under the old intense reigmes.

Another thing to consider is what Bisu said himself that the big names of old Broodwar are starting to get a little bit older and struggling to keep up. So many interesting factors in the scene right now. Rain isn't that much younger himself in this particular match up.

I watched the games with Korean commentary first (I don't understand it. But if I miss the game live it's sometimes fun to see if your understanding is the same as the commentary) and then listened to Artosis and Rapid. I was amazed how different their commentary on the WInners match was from what I thought when I watched it. I assume I am probably wrong. But after the intial cannon rush it felt to me that Rain was ahead of Effort and Rain for most of the game was on the same number of bases as Effort. Which in my understanding is a very bad position for the Zerg. When I watched the game on my own it felt like Effort was just hanging on in the game and Rain nearly had the game, at least till near the end on low resources where it really was frantic. But then when I watched the commentary they made it sound like the game was very evenly balanced and it could go either way at any point. Not sure if tha't's just the purgative of the casters to make it sound closer than it is, my complete misinterpretation of the situation or maybe the match up has really changed a bit. I'll listen to BisuDagger & FlaShFTW and see what they thought at some point.

Anyway great to have some Starcraft back. It's not the healthiest scene right now for the pro's but it's great for us the fans to have exciting games back again.

ImbaTosS

United Kingdom1666 Posts

December 08 2016 10:58 GMT

#265

On December 08 2016 18:21 Greg_J wrote:
I watched the games with Korean commentary first (I don't understand it. But if I miss the game live it's sometimes fun to see if your understanding is the same as the commentary) and then listened to Artosis and Rapid. I was amazed how different their commentary on the WInners match was from what I thought when I watched it. I assume I am probably wrong. But after the intial cannon rush it felt to me that Rain was ahead of Effort and Rain for most of the game was on the same number of bases as Effort. Which in my understanding is a very bad position for the Zerg. When I watched the game on my own it felt like Effort was just hanging on in the game and Rain nearly had the game, at least till near the end on low resources where it really was frantic. But then when I watched the commentary they made it sound like the game was very evenly balanced and it could go either way at any point. Not sure if tha't's just the purgative of the casters to make it sound closer than it is, my complete misinterpretation of the situation or maybe the match up has really changed a bit. I'll listen to BisuDagger & FlaShFTW and see what they thought at some point.

Anyway great to have some Starcraft back. It's not the healthiest scene right now for the pro's but it's great for us the fans to have exciting games back again.

There was definitely significant misinterpretation at work on the official stream.

ggrrg

Bulgaria2715 Posts

December 08 2016 18:10 GMT

#266

Well, Rain... color me impressed.

Barneyk

Sweden304 Posts

December 09 2016 03:18 GMT

#267

On December 08 2016 03:20 ImbaTosS wrote:
I really felt like the casting and analysis on the official stream, particularly in the Rain vs Effort game, was often way sub-par. There were a lot of important things missed, a lot of important things which happened right on screen which were hardly mentioned and seemed to generate no excitement, and some straight up bizarre situation assessments amongst other things.

I'm surprised at this from Artosis. Regarding Rapid, he seems like a nice fellow but I am just not sure his game knowledge is deep enough at all.

Surely I'm not the only one who feels this way?

They seem to busy hyping the game and the players to actually pay serious attention to whats going on in the games.