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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
On July 27 2015 02:23 GlowingBear wrote: This would be true if the second wagon is Mafia. Do you believe scott or hopeless are Mafia? I don't understand how this works, exactly? | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On July 27 2015 02:26 ObiWanShinobi wrote: I don't understand how this works, exactly? Well, if both wagons are town, Mafia doesn't have to rush to decide their votes and advocate for a mislynch. In case a scum partner is up for the lynch, when a second wagon is proposed and the guy is town, if fills much faster. | ||
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
On July 27 2015 02:29 GlowingBear wrote: Well, if both wagons are town, Mafia doesn't have to rush to decide their votes and advocate for a mislynch. In case a scum partner is up for the lynch, when a second wagon is proposed and the guy is town, if fills much faster. The only time I've seen the speed of a wagon dictate anything is at EoD, when there's a wagon that's safe and easy to jump on. IE not in this circumstance. | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
On July 27 2015 02:32 ObiWanShinobi wrote: The only time I've seen the speed of a wagon dictate anything is at EoD, when there's a wagon that's safe and easy to jump on. IE not in this circumstance. I've seen it happening hours before deadline. Nonetheless, it's unimportant for us to discuss this, but it's important that tofu answers my question | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
Hopeless seems like just bad town to me. (Yes, I know I'm giving town read now, fuck you) On July 26 2015 12:35 Hopeless1der wrote: Snickers I disagree with you on onegu, but I think you're town. a. claimed named town (No CC) Null/ Townlean imo. Certainly not instant scumread like you wish to imply. b. Bussing + Sheeping How the everloving fuck could you know this unless you were scum with him? Are you admitting you are scum? I get your point about the whole CC being not indicative, but your estimates of 1/20 or 19/20 chances are ludicrous. I cant read rayn, and if I get into a pissing contest I will lose. Please have mercy, rayn. Re: Scott Notice how I have 3 whole voters and one of them is scott Also note the timestamps Okay, now read this shitty list post from scott, look at who's voting me and what his thoughts are on those players: Would lynch. ##Vote scott31337 As an aside, it annoys me when people bring up my first post and say its "forced" or "bad" with no further commentary on WHY its forced or bad. This post right here seems to have some genuine frustration/anger associated with it. He focuses on the the part of scott's post that refers specifically to himself and votes scott because scott has a scumlean on hopeless and didn't elaborate on why. This type of play usually only happens because a town player can't comprehend why any other player would accuse them of being scum because, after all, the town player is town and only scum would call a town player scum. It's terrible logic, but only logic that would come from someone who is town. I'm tentatively town on hopeless but I'll vote him for self-preservation if worse comes to worse. On to scott. On July 26 2015 07:13 scott31337 wrote: Scotty's shitty spreadsheet at the moment - 1 KelsierSC null - questioned me on the VT claim, but it felt weird how he did it. 2 FirmTofu null/scumlean - little posting, nothing sticks out. 3 Onegu named town no CC, going after rsolutin for being angry too early, but she doesn't seem that angry (scummy angry) YET. 4 Snickers others like him but I don't see why? (notably Clarity, rsoul) Calls me mafia - suspicious 5 raynpelikoneet Started off good but has faided, slight town lean 6 Clarity_nl null / slight scum? Wants to lynch me 7 boxerfred Nothing special, six posts of meh - scumlean 8 ObiWanShinobi Didn't see scum motivation from his post to me - little posting - null 9 rsoultin Slight townlean, not too angry - keep an eye to see if she does the magic trick if not just lynch D4. 10 GlowingBear second part d1 looking better, not too angry either - asking townie questions - townlean 11 Palmar townlean for a Palmar d1 day. 12 scott31337 town 13 Hopeless1der scumlean, first post was bad - but suspicious/scummy voters on him so need to watch for that. I absolutely despise this post. There are so many things wrong here. Scott just posted all of his reads. This is another instance of the semblance of contribution without the actual contribution. Let's evaluate whether this post actually helps town. More than half of the people are just "Null" to him, meaning his read on them is completely useless to us. Of the scumleans he has, I'm one of them and I know I'm town. He's wrong about at least one of his scumleans. His other scumleans are just low posters(easy targets). It doesn't take a genius to point out easy targets. This is exactly the type of post I would expect from mafia. Low contribution, lots of fancy list making, and completely useless. (I actually used to do this as mafia when I was in Titanic mini mafia 2 on this site if anyone wants to have a look, rayn was in that game) Totally down to lynch scott. ##vote: scott31337 | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/422720-titanic-mini-mafia Everyone should read my play in this game if you want to have some idea of how I play as mafia. Here is the post I was referring to. On July 31 2013 07:51 FirmTofu wrote: FT's Player Profiles Alright, I've gotta catch a bus. I'm not done with a few people but as soon as I'm back home, I'll finish up. This is what I have so far. This stuff is straight out of the notes I've been compiling all game so some of it might be outdated. These profiles are by no means done. I'm just posting it because everyone pretty much knows where I stand on everything thus far and the more detailed analysis we get in this game, the better. + Show Spoiler [Oats] + Oats has a lot of posts where he pokes and prods various people for information. On July 27 2013 10:01 Oatsmaster wrote: We should lynch the lurker with the least posts. Koshi is clearly not one of them. Clearly. So Paperscraps, why is Day 1 hard to get solid reads as opposed to other days? On July 27 2013 10:43 Oatsmaster wrote: fuck your rum. I assume you dont want to lynch lurkers then CJS. Why not? Do you think scum will not lurk at all? On July 27 2013 11:23 Oatsmaster wrote: What trap? Like what trap are you talking about? Do you like lurkers in town? CJS, I think that at least 1 or 2 scum will be labeled as a lurker and with only probably 3-4 town, its a much smaller pool to look at as opposed to all 14 people. On July 27 2013 11:28 Oatsmaster wrote: Lynching a lurker is awesome. Have you never seen lurkers flip scum? So are you definetely not going to lynch a lurker then, why is lynching a lurker bad? Makes a case on JAT. On July 28 2013 00:09 Oatsmaster wrote: yup justanothertownie dude is scum. Look at his first post. justanothertownie thinks its not a joke. But he doesnt explain why scum would do it, summerizes Paperscraps actions and just says its scummy. Scum take jokes seriously cause they play the game seriously. extreme nitpicking here, clearly paperscraps was using generalization and notice that justanothertownie just throws shit on him without explain how or why its scummy. Like pointing out supposed bad posts without explain why. scumtell. Ok look at his thoughts on CJS, I assume he is leaning null scummy. In his very next post commenting on CJS post, his view drastically changes. looks like he wants to sheep CJS, off this horrific accusations without anything to back them up with. contradictions and shit, way over generalization. And it makes justanormaltownie want to sheep him? I dont buy it, justanormaltownie wants to support this set of lynches/lynch and see if I could possibly be mislynched. ##vote: justanormaltownie Doesn't look particularly alignment indicative, but seems to be calling him out on newbie mistakes that town and scum could both make. On July 28 2013 01:04 Oatsmaster wrote: CJS is totally town. Town dont care how they look so they play around right. Scum care how they look so they dont. And therefore because they dont play around, they tend to pick out joking posts as scummy, one part because without context, its scummy so any easy reason, and another part is that they just dont see the joke. So why would scum vote so carelessly early game? He knows that exarezee is reletively active at that point and probably wont get lynched so why put yourself in the spotlight that way. Random votes like that are strong towntells and you not seeing it and insisting you are right is scummy. Papers is in no way contradicting himself, he says lynch lurkers sure, but if he has a strong scum read on a non lurker, lynch that dude first. HOW IN THE FUCKING WORLD IS THAT A CONTRADICTION? pulling shit out of your ass to make your point here. About your 180 on CJS. "i have to agree with you" Is that not sheeping? You havent provided any of your own reasons why me or Vayne are scum, but you have scumreads on us because of that one LOUSY FUCKING POST that CJS posted. What made you so convinced that CJS was not scum from that post justanothertownie? Another tunnel-ish post by Oats. Starting to feel town. + Show Spoiler [Clarity] + The case he made on me. On July 27 2013 19:34 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm not quite sure what that means. "looks a lot more town in his filter than he does in the thread"? Could you explain? Anyway, disagree completely with your conclusion which you reached a full 7 minutes after I asked (excluding when you actually read my post and made your own) _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ FirmTofu would like us all to actually discuss the game, instead of all this fluff that's going on, like everyone talking about the lurker lynch policy! Granted, this post might have been in context with Koshi's 1,2,3 posts, but that was Koshi trying to prove a point. Firmtofu before this point however, did not discuss anything other than lurker lynch policy: + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2013 09:25 FirmTofu wrote: Okay, I'm back on a computer. This comes up every game. How scummy does someone have to be for you to want to lynch them over a lurker? You have to consider that lynching lurkers provides very little information whereas lynching scummy people might tell us a lot about how people are related to one another. On July 27 2013 09:40 FirmTofu wrote: To all of you that are out there... Do you think policy lynching a lurker day 1 is a good idea? Why or why not? On July 27 2013 09:41 FirmTofu wrote: Personally, I think we should use it as a last resort. Lynch a lurker only if 1) Half the town is lurking or 2) All the active people look genuinely helpful/useful and none of them look like good lynches. Shitting on town, regardless of if you're being a hypocrite or not, is something scum love doing. Then there is the useless vote with an easy out, classic scum: "I am voting for you, and I will keep my vote on you until you do X!" This is not a vote to kill scum, this is a vote to have a vote on someone, and he backs off the moment his demands are met. Not only does he back off the moment he's able to, he's also wishy-washy about the case itself. But the most troubling things I found were his last two posts: Notice how he explains that he's having a hard time reading CJS because of his roleplay, and Paperscraps would be a good lynch too because he's hard to read. That's all well and good, pressure them to be more easier to read, but the mindset is revealed in the part I bolded. He first claims that if he had to lynch someone it would be CJS or Paper because they're currently hard to read, but now he's suddenly saying he's suspicious that they're scum? why? Then he throws a random unsolicited townread into his post, because scum love giving townreads. This post is the epitome of useless. Instead of focusing on the information we do have, Firm decides to point out that there's no point in scumhunting because for all we know all the people who haven't posted are scum. FirmTofu is pretty likely scum and our best lynch right now. I don't think scum would be the first to form a case on anyone. It draws too much attention and isn't necessary early in the game. On July 28 2013 02:40 Clarity_nl wrote: I mean, I find the thing FirmTofu just did kinda hard to fake. Like, I guess if you're superscum it's like a mindgame thing, but if that were the case why did he seem so scummy in the first 12 hours. ##Unvote Am actually gonna be gone for a couple of hours but shall return later, look forward to hearing from Malongo. Unvotes after reading my response to the case and the "townslip" that makes me look town. I don't think scum would drop a case this easily. If Clarity was scum, I'd expect him to tunnel me a little longer. + Show Spoiler [CJS] + Most of CJS' early posting was Pirates roleplay. I'm ignoring most of that. On July 27 2013 23:08 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: My vote still stands, and I believe that it is the correct one for this situation. Oatsmaster is acting like scum. He is refusing to give us any decent information whatsoever, just mucking up the thread with sarcastic one-liners and not giving us any insight on his opinions or anything. He is the perfect example of scum trying to blend in and be in the conversation, yet his words hold no meaning and are merely just filler. If you take them out, his filter is left with: And that, my friends, is not someone I want to give rum to. This post looks like something town would say. Calling someone out for trying to blend in. I disagree with the conclusion, but I think the move is townie. On July 27 2013 23:35 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Then why do you not vote for FirmTofu? You just said that you think they are both scum and that you want to vote for them, but you don't think paperscraps is as scummy as FirmTofu. So your vote should be clear. Why is it not clear to you then? Calls out hzflank on his misplaced intentions. I REALLY like this post. CJS is looking for scum motivation here. Looks like active scumhunting. On July 27 2013 23:42 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: You said that you think at least one of them as scum. So that would mean that you are trying to figure out who is scummier? I bolded two sentences in your post which contradict each other. You would rather vote paperscraps first, but you think FirmTofu is scummier. Am I missing something? Again, calls people our for their misplaced intentions. Very town move. On July 28 2013 01:11 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Right now, I'm leaning towards you being scum. I'm trying to figure out whether Vayne is stupid or scum, and I'm leaning towards stupid. I'd also like to point out that a lot of people have not posted to a satisfactory level, and any one of them could be scum lurking in the shadows. We have quite a ways to go before anyone dies, so a lot of things can change. Read on Vayne slightly changes based on a short exchange between them. This shows he is adapting based on new information. + Show Spoiler [rayn] + Still working on this. + Show Spoiler [Malongo] + On July 28 2013 14:29 Malongo wrote: Sparrow pfff another smurf. So far in the inactive players I see 5. raynpelikoneet 7. Malongo 9. Stutters695 In the hyper-activity side I see: 1. Oatsmaster 4. IMCaptainJackSparrow 10. hzflank 14. exarezee Everyone else is meh-activity wise. So far my best pick is hzflank I really didnt like this post from hzflank: The think about starting the day lynching a lurker ise c to force the players to post and force the mafia to make mistakes. I rather start the day forcing lurkers to post than "looking for 2/3 wagons" earlier. Earlier wagons are more likely to be town (in my experience) and the lurker lynching stays aside. Trying to get early wagons is also a good way to close the fence early wich help the mafia more than the town. His vote so far on Paperscraps is really weak and when I read his filter I found it really reactive (or defensive as he put it). ##Vote: hzflank Id be happy to lynch CJS for no reason too ( I just hate attention-smurfs ). I've played with town Malongo a few times and he NEVER does this type of stuff. Can't tell if his meta is changing or he is scum trying to look pro-town. The list by activity is utterly useless. The case on hzflank is meager, but it does establish his stance on the lynch. On July 29 2013 06:44 Malongo wrote: This is hzflank on Paper: How can that be mafia if the game had just started? You expect something like a paper on who is mafia based on 10 pages of posts? guy addressed one by one each player and you get angry because he doesnt respond directly to you This is a lie as proof you can actually find the exchange that he actually answers you directly: So actually you are telling that you dont understand Paper so he is not town. See the logic flaw? Well actually his one sentence makes more sense to me than these case. He calls Vivax directly lurker because there was no reason behind his vote. How is that in any ways indicative of mafia? if something he liked your own way to be abrasive. What? most people look at Paper as null towards townie, I dont see anyone calling him town. What I am sure is your post is really forced towards Paper This case is a lot better and appears near the lynch. The lie he caught hzflank in is especially interesting. More importantly, this establishes Malongo as someone who was AGAINST the Paper lynch but FOR the hzflank lynch. If Paper flips town, Malongo looks good. If Paper flips scum, this could be a possible teammate. On July 29 2013 22:39 Malongo wrote: hz is top of tops to me. Next to him active lurkers like JAT and VA should be put in line asap. I read a lot of inconsistency in Vivax and I found it odd that you are/were pushing so hard on Koshi who is town from my perspective. but neither of those things look alligment indicative to me. Post-lynch consistency On July 30 2013 09:41 Malongo wrote: If there is no miller there is no chance in hell you are telling the truth. Vigi on me asap, clear the vigi you and me, im green. This is an odd response. Why didn't he ask vigi to hit Vayne? After all, if he knows Vayne is lying, shouldn't he assume he is scum? On July 31 2013 00:20 Malongo wrote: Because i am green townie and in this position I have little to no chance to know what is happening behind the scenes. My real initial guess was "player x contacted VA and claimed a positive check". VA has no other chance but to call me out behind a lie. I think all the time VA is blue because of his posting... so if I ask a hit on VA and goes on is a lot worse than a hit on me. This is really weird. Malongo thinks pms are allowed? lol wtf? What a conspiracy theory. Probably town at this point, but has some really weird posts. + Show Spoiler [Vayne] + Starts off with a bunch of stupid joke posts trying to look scummy? Really weird play. On July 29 2013 06:16 VayneAuthority wrote: ##unvote ##vote:vivax playing like he does as scum. Long winded light on content posts, trying to get people mislynched for trivial things, and readjusting course when it doesn't work. If he's not scum I will need to re-assess my thoughts on his play. Meta argument by Vayne. Flimsy justification. Don't really like this post at all. On July 30 2013 09:21 VayneAuthority wrote: I have a guilty check on malongo. awaiting his response! Now that we know that this was a fakeclaim, I just don't see scum pulling this kind of move. On July 30 2013 09:49 VayneAuthority wrote: to get some concrete reads, I have been barely reading the thread since it was just a bunch of useless stuff. I added in my own useless reads. Time to start playing for real This feels exactly like something town Vayne would do/say. He was an asshole like this in Nuclear Winter and he was town in that game. Feels town here too. + Show Spoiler [Stutters] + Still working on this. + Show Spoiler [hzflank] + On July 27 2013 17:21 hzflank wrote: First impressions: I do not like how much discussion there has been about lurkers. The first post was palatable, but the fact that so many people decided to focus the conversation on it created an environment that benefits scum more than town. To talk about lurking policy properly would require a conversation about mafia-theory and philosophy, which is a conversation that allows scum to both hide easily and setup town-town wagons on day one. Paperscraps is the scummiest player to have posted so far. That does not mean that you should find a fence to sit on. There are many pro-town things that you could be doing on day 1 even if you have a hard time forming good scum reads. This post is so scummy, as it is just throwing mud for no good reason. I did not like this post by Tofu as I cannot tell whether he is actually prodding or looking for a soft target. The bolded part is what puts a scummy tone on the post. Exarzee is almost as town as anyone can be at this stage of the game. The only thing I did not like was: There are good town reasons for withholding a read for a few hours or until a particular person has posted, however the reason given above by Exarzee is not a good town reason. I am willing to let it slide due to some of his other posts being very town. This post by Rayn is not scummy, but I want to point it out because I do not think that anyone should be encouraged to sheep. Sheeping generally helps scum more than town. To finish, I liked the way that a lot of votes were thrown around early and I see benefit in continuing to do this, as it will provide extra information in the future. Since I think that Paperscraps is the scummiest player so far: ##vote: Paperscraps Makes a case on Paper pretty early in the game. It has some decent points. Feels like it's coming from town. On July 27 2013 17:57 hzflank wrote: That is not taking a stance. Taking a stance would be “I am going to vote for anyone who lurks”. Saying that you will vote for a lurker unless someone else is scummier and then going on to say that it is hard to get solid reads on day 1 is not taking a stance. I do not think that being afraid to say what to do with lurkers is a scum tell. I do think that attempting to mimic thread sentiment is a scum tell. This is a good post. It follows up on his scum read and clarifies his position on a few issues. On July 27 2013 19:44 hzflank wrote: I am not going to defend the points you have raised against Tofu as that is his job and not mine. I do not like the fact that you start your case on Tofu with an attack on me based on the timing of my post. If I happen to be at my computer then 7 minutes is more than enough time to read your post, read Tofu's filter, consider it and make my own short post. After my initial two reads of the thread I was aware of a post from Tofu that I thought was scummy. It was this post: I didn't like this at all. It looks like he is worried about being associated with me. Why? Only scum should be afraid of associations. Town just dismisses them as impossible because they know they are town. On July 27 2013 20:19 hzflank wrote: The association between Tofu and I. There is no good reason to clutter your case on Tofu with shit against me unless you think there may be an association. The only time I (as town) have ever talked shit about one person in a case against another person is when I thought that they were both scum. Again, he brings up this "association" by posting. Seems rather silly to be so worried about something so trivial. On July 27 2013 21:20 hzflank wrote: No. It would of changed everything if you had posted your reasons for thinking that Tofu is scum before you asked for other people's opinions. It is scummy to test the waters before you actually post a case. Me defending Tofu makes it harder for town to get a read on Tofu based on his own defence. Therefore, when writing a case the ideal scenario is for the person to defend the case themselves before other people comment too much on it. In this case that was not possible due to time zones, but by discounting my reasons for thinking Tofu is town as you gave the reasons as to why Tofu is scum you made it more likely that I would defend Tofu. That is scummy. On second thoughts, your case being less likely to attract votes is not a scum tell on you. Why did you suggest a wagon on Tofu before you actually posted the reasons for it? This post is interesting. He says he knows he shouldn't be defending me, so he's not going to. However, all of his last few posts have been soft-defenses of me mainly because Clarity soft-associated us with each other. I don't like hzflank's response to this situation at all. On July 27 2013 23:24 hzflank wrote: But which of them do you think is most likely scum? If I were scum I would love to see a town post that he would like the vote to be between a specific two people. So to me either your post was more useful to scum than to town, or you are scum. I am leaning towards the former, so please answer the question. These questions to exarezee are making me feel townish on hz again. He's asking what's important. "Why are you waffling on two people you find scummy. Why not choose one and stick with it?" Paraphrased, obviously. On July 27 2013 23:48 hzflank wrote: Because scum want two town wagons on day 1. Town only wants to find one scum as the chance of actually finding multiple scum on day 1 is very slim. If a scum member is under pressure and cannot deal with it alone then the simplest and easiest thing for the scum team to do is to ignore that person and secure two other lynch candidates. If town start saying that we want to lynch two specific people then it makes it too easy for scum to steer us into a mislynch without being noticed. If you think that they are both scum that is fine, but don't do anything resembling pushing for lynches on them both at the same time. I really liked this post. Looks like he's proactively stating his stance on the lynch situation and why he thinks pushing multiple wagons at the same time is scummy. + Show Spoiler [Koshi] + On July 29 2013 00:17 Koshi wrote: ##vote : hzflank I will put my vote on the person that is actively posting and I find the most scummy. Reasons: 1) Disagree on Paper 2) Posting habit is equal to a previous game with hzflank. Such a good scumplayer, got killed by SK that game because he looked the most town with a lot of people left. This is a respect vote if you like. I am checking in every so many minutes for questions. A very early vote on hzflank. Pretty flimsy case, but like Malongo, it establishes his motivation for his choice around lynchtime. On July 28 2013 23:33 Koshi wrote: My current lynchpool: raynpelikoneet Malongo VayneAuthority Stutters695 I have put ??? after these players but I can let them live another day: hzflank On July 29 2013 01:19 Koshi wrote: People Koshi wants to lynch 1. hzflank 2. Stutters 3. VA People Koshi can agree upon: 4.Malongo People Koshi won't lynch ever: 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 I am REALLY hating these lists by Koshi. They aren't helping town and it looks like he is just trying to come off as prot-own without actually contributing. On July 29 2013 08:07 Koshi wrote: ##unvote ##vote: Paperscraps Does this near lynchtime because not enough people want to lynch hzflank. He says he prefers lynch to no-lynch. On July 29 2013 09:26 Koshi wrote: We could have had that if we knew that Paper was 99% town. Enough people knew paper was town in the end, we could have ignored the tunnelers, but with majority lynch, their might have been too many people disliking the no lynch. Maybe even me. Nha, removing the vote was terrible Vivax. Truly terrible. But meh, you will prove you aren't scum. I don't like this in light of Vivax flipping town. It looks like Koshi might have had known Vivax's alignment pre-death? I don't know why a scum Koshi would kill Vivax though. On July 29 2013 20:28 Koshi wrote: So hz believes 2 complete different things at the same time. 1) Koshi and Paper are scum 2) Koshi is pushing paper lynch because Koshi thinks paper is town Which is impossible. And pretty close to impossible to think as a town player. Koshi brings up a good point here. Hzflank's reads of Paper and Koshi are incompatible when paired together. However, he may have thought they were scum independently of one another. On July 30 2013 02:01 Koshi wrote: HZFLANK If you have read the pages around 59-61 you will see that that hzflank is defending a lot of the flak he is getting by saying that he was only 50% sure about Paper being scum and that he didn't have any better reads on another player, and that he felt it was his duty as town to push the wagon he believed the most in. Anybody that followed the thread yesterday knows that hzflank was pretty stuck on Paper and that a small miracle had to happen for him to change his vote. I could have been that miracle but I am not even going to discuss how strange that is after all the nullreads I got from hz this game. I would like to put your focus on how other wagons or people that didn't believe Paper was scum were treated, in the spoilers below you have exchanges with XRZ and Oats. But a lot of you had interactions with hzflank on why he was thinking Paper was the best read. Did you back then believed it was a 50% read of him? Come on... + Show Spoiler + On July 28 2013 00:02 hzflank wrote: I think that Paper is scum. However, that read may possibly change (If I am given reason to change it), and if it does change then there is every possibility that they are both town. Their interactions with you in no way preclude them from both being town. + Show Spoiler + On July 28 2013 22:59 hzflank wrote: Lol Oats, so obvious. Oats and Paper both scum, FT and JAT both town. Vivax probably town. He thinks I am scum because I seemed to be soft defending JAT. Now these 2 quotes are a few of many attempts by hzflank (and XRZ is guilty of this as well) to control the thread with their scumreads. It's funny how they even say "we should only have 1 wagon because scum wants 2 town wagons on day 1" with XRZ countering that at least 1 of FT and Paper is scum so that these are perfect wagons... (little secret: FT looks town like hell for a FT Day 1 and especially his behavior during lynch) But Koshi you should not make associations like that, right? Ok ok. Let's keep this case focused on hzflank. (just remember while you read Vivax his case) I will repeat again that this behaviour of hzflank resembles a game I recently played with him. Please take into considering that I am telling the truth here without me been able to verify that. Some of the things that you can verify is that hz is a high volume poster, he has a lot of posts and scum that is able to post a shitton is very hard to lynch, extremely hard, unless they screw up. Which hz did: Remember that hzflank is a high volume poster. He posts a lot and that is why in general it is almost impossible to lynch these guys. But what is hzflask his defense on this misstep? He says that he isn't scum because if he was scum he would not have replied to me. THIS is bullshit. Believe me. This is bullshit and you should not believe it. hzflank replied to my post (that wasn't directed at him btw but more at rayn and Vivax trying to change votes to FT) in a way that you should see as a scared scum response. This is why, and there are a few replies of hzflank that he posted in defense that make what I type here true, go look them up: (I rewrote the points I make here to make it easier to understand than before) But as scum? THIS ONLY HAPPENS IN A SCUMBRAIN!!! + Show Spoiler + On July 29 2013 21:00 hzflank wrote: I believed that Koshi and/or Paper might be scum. Obviously I did not have a 100% read on either of you. I was trying to work out why town-Koshi would switch his vote to Paper so easily. My conclusion was that it was because you thought that Paper was town and that it would help your case against me. I was wrong though and unfortunately I was not thinking clearly enough. That is actually a better reason for scum-Koshi to vote for Paper than for town-Koshi to. It is easier to say that in hindsight though, now that I know that Paper was town. A scum player would not even need to try to work out why Koshi was voting for Paper. A scum player would just go with it and settle for lynching a townie. Conclusion: Lynch, shoot and kill this guy. Burn his body afterwards. Case on hz is okay, but is based on speculation. Not really convinced about hzflank. + Show Spoiler [JAT] + See: scumslip + Show Spoiler [XRZ] + Still working on this While I'm gone, let me know what you guys think about these players. Whether you agree/disagree and why. | ||
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scott31337
United States2979 Posts
On July 26 2015 18:37 Palmar wrote: Like if we're lynching people for doing dumb shit we would have to lynch half the town, so I don't know if we should use that as a parameter. I'm really struggling with some posts to try to determine if they're from mafia or just lazy/apathetic/bad townies. Also I'm tempted to lynch scott for this: He claims to be using a spreadsheet to help him determine people's alignments, but some of the stuff here is just complete fucking bullshit and 100% made up. Like I don't believe anyone who keeps a spreadsheet would do it in this way. Also check this out, detective Palmar is on the case: Things that bother me about the format of this thing:
However on the other hand this is clearly copy pasted from a spreadsheet so if he is lying about using a spreadsheet he at least opened up google docs or something and pasted this in. meeeeeeeehhhhhh~~~~ Maybe I should give him a pass based on that? Don't know, it actually feels like I should. It's so bad though... I'll remove the numbers for next time - I actually use Excel - and what has happened so far? the Onegu/Snickers exchange shitting up the thread and rayn's comment on Tofu. Hopeless posted a decent thought that makes him look better. Let me finish reading before I add my thoughts - I also backed up my spreadsheet and wiped my machine for Windows 10 last night (which is why I wasn't on much) so let me retreive that and re-post where I am at. Just so we are clear - I've read quite a few of your games - and although you claim you really don't have a meta - I believe you do - you actually care a little more as town at winning - and usually you'll get shot like n1 or n2 anyway as town when showing a glimmer that you will catch the mafia team - so why really worry about you now? That's what I meant by my post. On July 26 2015 18:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why does he say his spreadsheet is shitty? Why would anyone keep a shitty spreadsheet? Also why does he say there are scummy voters on Hopeless? Who is scummy on Hopeless? i am apparently not, so it has to be Clarity. I don't know how he ends up in Clarity being mafia when he is voting for the same person (Hopeless) and Clarity thinks Hopeless is mafia. It doesn't make any sense. It also doesn't make any sense he uses a plural on "voters", because it is impossible he thinks more than one person on Hopeless is mafia. Unless he is lying about his read on me or his read on himself. The reason why I called it shitty as when I posted it in the last two games - lots of people called it bad/shitty. I guess I should'nt have added that line, now that I see your point of view. I personally use it to keep track of ideas and thoughts in my head that I like to share with town at times, and keep track of people for the first couple of days so I do not forget anybody or let them slip in the cracks. I see Tofu's back and voting for me - let me get breakfast and break down his post next. | ||
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
On July 27 2015 02:20 FirmTofu wrote: I have played many games since then(not on this site) and I have since changed my view on this matter. When we give town reads, we are vocally informing mafia of most town-read people in the game. These helps them choose their targets and doesn't do an effective job of eliminating mafia candidates for town. It is far better as town, statistically speaking, to talk about mafia candidates because talking about who you think is scummy helps us figure out who to lynch without compromising our town reads. Most importantly, even if I fundamentally disagree with you on this view that townreads are bad town play, that doesn't make me mafia. I just disagree with you on how to play the game. Lynching someone for a disagreement is bad play. You should be lynching me for scummy behavior. I am voting for you because i do not believe you believe what you are saying. Like it's literally harder to find mafia amongst 10 people than it is to find mafia amongst 6 people. Arbitary numbers, but it is a fact. If someone is town and someone else does not get it, it helps them to come to the same (correct) conclusion, and therefore helps the whole town to find mafia. Giving out townreads helps you prove you are town. Because it shows your thought process and people can then evaluate if the thought process is legitmate and coming from the town or not. Simple fact. Many people do not have scumreads early on, because finding town is generally a fuckton easier than to find mafia. Alot of this game is about process of elimination. Here is the real kicker; If you believe in what you say aren't you voting for Palmar for "disagreeing with you on how to play the game", which, by your definition, is not scummy? | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On July 27 2015 03:01 ObiWanShinobi wrote: FT, what did you think of Bf's list post? He was one of your top lynches but you haven't said anything about him yet. I don't see a list post in boxer's filter. He also wasn't my top lynches. I just said I'd be down to lynch him. His last few posts have been redeeming though and he does have a vote down for scott. I don't really want to lynch him anymore. | ||
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
On July 27 2015 03:07 FirmTofu wrote: I don't see a list post in boxer's filter. He also wasn't my top lynches. I just said I'd be down to lynch him. His last few posts have been redeeming though and he does have a vote down for scott. I don't really want to lynch him anymore. Redeeming how? | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On July 27 2015 03:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am voting for you because i do not believe you believe what you are saying. Like it's literally harder to find mafia amongst 10 people than it is to find mafia amongst 6 people. Arbitary numbers, but it is a fact. If someone is town and someone else does not get it, it helps them to come to the same (correct) conclusion, and therefore helps the whole town to find mafia. Giving out townreads helps you prove you are town. Because it shows your thought process and people can then evaluate if the thought process is legitmate and coming from the town or not. Simple fact. Many people do not have scumreads early on, because finding town is generally a fuckton easier than to find mafia. Alot of this game is about process of elimination. Here is the real kicker; If you believe in what you say aren't you voting for Palmar for "disagreeing with you on how to play the game", which, by your definition, is not scummy? I voted for Palmar for multiple reasons. I didn't just vote him because he was giving town reads. I voted him because he wasn't asking people questions. Because he wasn't actively looking for town, he was just standing by the sidelines. It was the fact that he was posting townreads without investigating or trying to prod people for more information that was the kicker to me. That's behavior, not simply a disagreement on how to play the game. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
On July 27 2015 03:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Scott who are the scummy people you were talking about who were voting for Hopeless at that time? Also: Scott why did you give posts to Kelsier? | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On July 27 2015 03:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: so you do not even go through his reads to figure out if they are good or bad you just point out the act as scummy? I will admit, I agree with some of his recent reads. However, when I was online, all of his posts were trash and he had no redeeming posts. See for yourself. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43188 Posts
On July 27 2015 03:20 FirmTofu wrote: I will admit, I agree with some of his recent reads. However, when I was online, all of his posts were trash and he had no redeeming posts. See for yourself. What reads of his have changed since then? And what posts exactly are redeeming from him? | ||
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Half the Sky
Germany9029 Posts
Day 1 Vote Count FirmTofu (5): raynpelikoneet, Onegu, KelsierSC, rsoultin, ObiWanShinobi scott31337 (3): boxerfred, Hopeless1der, FirmTofu Hopeless1der (1): KelsierSC (1): raynpelikoneet (1): Palmar boxerfred (1): Snickers rsoultin (0): palmar (0): clarity_nl (0): Not Voting (1): scott31337 As the wind blows, FirmTofu is staring death in the face. Day 1 ends in at 22:00 GMT (+00:00). The voting thread is here. Only votes in the voting thread will be counted. The live voting tracker is located here. Please FORMAT YOUR VOTES CORRECTLY in the voting thread or the script will not pick your vote up! | ||
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ObiWanShinobi
United States8089 Posts
Consolidate. | ||
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scott31337
United States2979 Posts
On July 27 2015 02:49 FirmTofu wrote: Just looked into scott and hopeless because they're the top candidates. It seems that they are at odds with each other which leads me to believe that they are probably not on the same mafia team together. Mafia bussing each other this early seems like a risky play to me. Could be wrong on that one though. Hopeless seems like just bad town to me. (Yes, I know I'm giving town read now, fuck you) This post right here seems to have some genuine frustration/anger associated with it. He focuses on the the part of scott's post that refers specifically to himself and votes scott because scott has a scumlean on hopeless and didn't elaborate on why. This type of play usually only happens because a town player can't comprehend why any other player would accuse them of being scum because, after all, the town player is town and only scum would call a town player scum. It's terrible logic, but only logic that would come from someone who is town. I'm tentatively town on hopeless but I'll vote him for self-preservation if worse comes to worse. On to scott. I absolutely despise this post. There are so many things wrong here. Scott just posted all of his reads. This is another instance of the semblance of contribution without the actual contribution. Let's evaluate whether this post actually helps town. More than half of the people are just "Null" to him, meaning his read on them is completely useless to us. Of the scumleans he has, I'm one of them and I know I'm town. He's wrong about at least one of his scumleans. His other scumleans are just low posters(easy targets). It doesn't take a genius to point out easy targets. This is exactly the type of post I would expect from mafia. Low contribution, lots of fancy list making, and completely useless. (I actually used to do this as mafia when I was in Titanic mini mafia 2 on this site if anyone wants to have a look, rayn was in that game) Totally down to lynch scott. ##vote: scott31337 Okay. So your vote is based on me having four scumleans, and one of them is wrong because it's you, correct? Others have thought that my list was somewhat useful - and it is useful to me. I obs'ed Titanic (that was during my 20 mafia game obs's run to try to understand a bit more before I got my feet wet) but I do not like your reasoning for going after me - it seems weak. The votes on you look much better than the ones on me as well. On July 27 2015 03:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: Scott who are the scummy people you were talking about who were voting for Hopeless at that time? Clarity was the suspicious voter I was referring to - Hopeless looks better now. On July 27 2015 03:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also: Scott why did you give posts to Kelsier? I posted about this already - Kelsier seemed angry about having to waste a post on replying to me about his VT claim - so I gave him five of my own, since I knew there's very little chance I'm going to use the whole 80 in a cycle. | ||
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