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Starcraft 2 Interface Ideas to Develop The Community
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Outline:
Background
In Game Rewards
Clan Play
Sponsorship and Tournaments
Possible Implementation Examples
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2kOK6CF.png)
I'm reminded of a song by Crown the Empire called Machines. The lyrics say "If all we are is just machines, then we must be the cogs,Inside the wheels of change." In other words if you want something different do somthing. I feel that I should make a post about the biggest current weaknesses in LOTV which is the rewards system, commmunity development, and connection to tournaments. I've spent almost 40 hours writing this post, making images, and videos. I spent a lot of my effort particularly on the tech diversity model as an in game reward. Please feel free to comment on any specifics that grab your attention.
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Background:
Starcraft has come a long way since its beginning. A lot of it stemming from the needs of the community. We have seen resume from replay support, decreased game duration, decreased dead time, increased balance, and skill cap. More versatile and interesting units. Archon modes to help casual players learn the game. That being said, I still feel there some major items yet to be addressed. Despite all the balance changes and accessibilty options, there are still aspects missing.
Most of the threads about LOTV are about balance concerns, individual units, or small insights, but do not address the general player experience. Other games have excelled building a more user friendly environment offering in-game rewards, building a stronger community, and having a strong tournament support backbone. These are the three issues that I want to address here. More specifically, how to reward the player better for playing starcraft 2, increasing user interaction, and allowing users to contribute to the tournament backbone (take for example dota having a 15 million dollar prize pool from microtransactions). Surprisingly enough, i think a lot of these items could be addressed simply by very small changes to the interface.
How do I accomplish these items? Well I decided to step back and get several ideas, and try to assess which ones were most feasible, highest return, and have the highest chance of making it into LOTV. Whether this actually happens i have no control over, but hopefully even if I fail on these aspects this thread will help lead to better ideas.
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In Game Rewards:
The first item I feel that is hard with Starcraft 2 is the rewards system. Getting 105 means almost nothing and literally the only real reward for playing is ladder rank. A lot of casual players will never spend the time needed to have a high rank. I feel that they should still be rewarded for playing. The way things current are, the game is very elitest only focused on ladder rank.
How else can you reward a player if not by rank. There are plenty of options. Look at other games. They offer skins, heroes, runes, weapons, and new tech options. I also think custom missions could help significantly for rewarding players. So in game paraphernalia is one option.
A second option, would be more for rewarding a certain aspect of a players style. This idea comes from NeuroStarcraft, where a player has a smaller objective to try and complete, such as not getting supply blocked, or keeping money below a certain number. Day 9 had a similar idea with offering a different tech style play, monobattles, or funday monday. Someone else in the post mentioned that this is also done in a town brawl by hearthstone.
A third option, being my person favorite is having specific tech options opened either through leveling or purchasable. These would be part of a casual ladder. Not designed necessarily to be the best but to enjoy the game. In addition to a tech casual ladder a ladder rank for major arcade items could be helpful so maybe you are the best at nexus wars. These auxillary ladder ranks do help to show you are improving at something.
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Clan Play:
Another aspect that could use work is clans. The game does not have a community hub. Its lacking severely. I think it should be the biggest focus in all of LOTV. It should be easier to interact with people and have more options to do so.
Also, currently, even if you join a group, Clans themselves have little meaning. There is no real way to know much about your clan or really see how stacks against other clans. This is the biggest change i propose. I personally think there need to be much fewer clans with much more clan vs clan interaction. This way playing as a community is a much more rewarding experience.
This was abundantly better in other RTS as according to several pro gamers. Most often the example of warcraft 3 comes up, such as the monologue by Vibe about this. The main page you see is mostly focused on clan play. Why doesn't starcraft throw you into the mix quickly for clan pages. The main page every player should see every day is their clan page. The community. Not some empty screen.
As far as clans interacting, there definitely needs to be a clan ladder. Your clan vs their clan in a similar class. You play to help your friends. You improve for you clan and help each other. This is almost non-existent in starcraft. Why?
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Sponsorship and Tournaments:
Aside from clans, there are plenty of streams and most people seem to form communities around streamers. Winter, Livibee, Avilo, Desrow. They have their groupies. Their people. But the community still is not connected truly to the tournaments and organizers.
I would love to hear that root is competing in TSC and i could join a lobby with friends to watch and chat in game. Why not be able to watch a tournament game as a group? The group interaction while rooting for your team is so harsh in twitch. Why not join the game and support a player. A virtual game ticket to tournaments would be dank.
Lastly, I would love to see ways to get tournament packages with in game rewards. Why not have a tournament pass that gives rewards. I want an eg icon. I want a premium package that gives me a prime t-shirt. I want a gsl icon. I want to hear total biscuit telling me "smackdown!!" These little things could really be big for supporting the backbone of tournaments and bringing in revenue.
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Possible Implementation Examples: (high resolution versions on my Imgur)
In Game Rewards-
+ Show Spoiler +One possible idea is a tech diversity model to make the game more fun  Tech Diversity as a robust microtransaction system+ Show Spoiler +The base of this idea comes from counterstrike where the casual ladder has more maps/guns/other options. Other RTS have more tech ladder store options as well such as Company of Heroes, or civilization. Expanded units in casual games-![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ewDkOLA.jpg) Hunter-Killer Doge- Has cleave damage. Kamikaze Doge- Has explosive damage Ruse Doge- Has half health, but cannot be damaged unless targeted individually. Also each one of these actually deals with a playstyle in the game. (I'll give you 3 hints. David slayed who? Going with Grills- What is a female support unit? Jackson's revenge was in the nova mission.) Casual Ladders Play Detailed Physical implementation ideas: (I'll keep adding images as i make them over the next few days, also on my Imgur) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qY9S2Qf.png) I know voting play is a bit vague but i picture it more like observer mode/archon mode style to the games. I could imagine there being a variety of possible mods as well. Most notably, the starcrafts mod. Veto Play in the expanded casual model![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7soJBXS.png) Vetoe'd play. Notice that the custom map is not in the current map pool. Also, there are many more tech options due to the different tech trees that open. I also like the idea of displaying your personal notes about a player or clan notes about a player so you have a better idea what to think when doing vetoes. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CeOYcJv.png) I would really like to see a mission that you do that has a custom aspect to it. The examples I'll use are god mode, and the 30 second or less supply block challenge. These come from Redbull Seattle where day 9 and husky could alter the game as a third person observer or the Snute vs. Bunny best of 69 Series games where Bunny tried to end it with mass viking. This could be as simple as merely highlighting some mod, arcade element, or custom melee map and giving a small clan reward for completing it. It could be as complex as playing games on a new map pool to see which ones should be included into the next season. Portraits,skins, custom missions, seem pretty obvious and have been mentioned in detail so I won't elucidate much, but it is important to have these options also in competitive games the ability to make custom units not show.
Clan Interface
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/IwyJ7yf.png) The strengths of my interface is the ease of finding open games. Its a little harder to find chat channels than the other interfaces i feel but not enough that i think its a big issue. The Quick info box is the best asset of my interface. you can quickly click on profiles of players but do not have to re-navigate back or go through multiple tabs for the most relevant information. Also, for the same reason, I think mine is better to find out match or tournament info with a quick info box. I imagine the play interface would be in the next screen after choosing to enter through the quick info box. Comparison of interfaces- + Show Spoiler +My interface- The strengths of my interface is the ease of finding open games. Its a little harder to find chat channels than the other interfaces i feel but not enough that i think its a big issue. The Quick info box is the best asset of my interface. you can quickly click on profiles of players but do not have to re-navigate back or go through multiple tabs for the most relevant information. Also, for the same reason, I think mine is better to find out match or tournament info with a quick info box. I imagine the play interface would be in the next screen after choosing to enter through the quick info box. Warcraft 3 ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/FrozenArbiter/SC2/wc3_resized.png) The best part of this interface is it has buttons to see the ladder and quick play as well as a play button which opens a standard window. The interface does not have a listing of other chats. The character profiles are great in terms of their organization. Starcraft 2 refined. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rx7A5ta.jpg) I like the ability to search the chat channels easily on this interface. The open games tab is abou the arcade, which gets away from the competitive clan idea, but is better for casual play for sure. This does not give any idea about the standing of the clan and the information about the players requires leaving and coming back. Since it takes the full screen its a little cleaner. I really like having the play box as they have in this interface with drop down menus for race and match type really saves a lot of space. ICCUP Clan Still working on getting screenshots for this.
Sponsorship and tournaments
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/V64QRt7.png) The Professional Tab. I think i'd need to add a search options button, but its fine for the concept. I like the idea of having an in game chat as well while watching an event, or even twitch embedding with clan chat.
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this is brilliant. I don´t mind the clan ideas or your godmode stuff, but the "either" "or" idea on the upgrades instead of just adding them in is quite slick. Off the top of my head i only see a couple of things that need to be adressed to give your idea some viability. A problem is that the techpaths you propose are quite drastic, which I like, and change the flow of the game quite a bit. So imagine you are a 2 base Terran against a 3 base Zerg in your average early game. You know that you are going to be attacked soon, what do you prepare for? Banelings, or Reaperlings? if you prepare for both you are behind, if you prepare for the wrong one you lose which is why you need to be able to scout your opponents precise tech path. It needs a unique animation on the Tech building.
Secondly, there shouldn´t be too many of these choices per race, maybe 2-3. Imagine if you had to make a choice for every unit in the game, you would go from the wished for diversity straight into godless randomness.
Overall I really like the idea, its fresh (atleast in starcraft) and a great way to introduce gamechanging (and game breaking) upgrades since they always come at an opportunity cost. I wish the concept would be officially tested in the beta.
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On June 26 2015 04:58 alpenrahm wrote:
this is brilliant. I don´t mind the clan ideas or your godmode stuff, but the "either" "or" idea on the upgrades instead of just adding them in is quite slick. Off the top of my head i only see a couple of things that need to be adressed to give your idea some viability. A problem is that the techpaths you propose are quite drastic, which I like, and change the flow of the game quite a bit. So imagine you are a 2 base Terran against a 3 base Zerg in your average early game. You know that you are going to be attacked soon, what do you prepare for? Banelings, or Reaperlings? if you prepare for both you are behind, if you prepare for the wrong one you lose which is why you need to be able to scout your opponents precise tech path. It needs a unique animation on the Tech building.
Secondly, there shouldn´t be too many of these choices per race, maybe 2-3. Imagine if you had to make a choice for every unit in the game, you would go from the wished for diversity straight into godless randomness.
Overall I really like the idea, its fresh (atleast in starcraft) and a great way to introduce gamechanging (and game breaking) upgrades since they always come at an opportunity cost. I wish the concept would be officially tested in the beta.
Yeah, I was going for a fresh idea. It seems like most of my friends who have stopped playing, say it gets boring. There isn't that much diversity. I was hoping that its a clan customization ladder to play with friends and just mess around with a lot of things. Something like a clan vs clan match with the game starting with each player picking race, then players vetoing tech options. Then players choose tech options, so there are no surprises. Tech trees are chosen before the game so only very small differences happen in the game.
Mostly its just for fun games with more diversity. I was not thinking it would be a big balanced thing, but rather something to just mess around with. The competitive stuff still would not feature all of these options. It appears from the 5 votes people are more interested in playing the same units and styles over and over, no pregame vetoes, or clan ladders towards having the highest levels of balance. These responses seem to be in contrast to what i hear, which is Blizzard should try more drastic changes . I tried to dream of having more options and a fun clan ladder mode designed less for competitive play and more for diversity that would bring my friends back. Like i love how counterstrike has a casual ladder with more options and competitive ladder. I wish starcraft had the same thing.
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On June 26 2015 04:22 tokinho wrote:
From the hints it seems Blizzard is bringing an observer mode to watch tournament games live in game. (very similar to what is done in dota) and a clan chat system.
This alone would be huge!
EDIT: but what is your source?
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On June 26 2015 06:36 wUndertUnge wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2015 04:22 tokinho wrote:
From the hints it seems Blizzard is bringing an observer mode to watch tournament games live in game. (very similar to what is done in dota) and a clan chat system.
This alone would be huge! EDIT: but what is your source?
Yeah sorry, Being hinted at, is
Observer mode, is being developed primarily for heroes of the storm. The games run off of similar game engines.
http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/16218929/coming-soon-custom-games-observer-mode-and-replays-10-7-2014
The capability is capable of being added to both games due to the nature of the system. Also in the patch notes for
They said huge improvements are being made to the chat system and observer systems..
On June 21 2015 22:43 BisuDagger wrote:
These list post are common for people wanting a reward system. No one puts in effort to really detail the system in an effective way. If you want something from blizzard, actually think it out and write your idea in full detail. Describe why people would like a feature and how it can be implemented. I'm not going to jump and say "omg Color Changes yes!" cause stuff like that has grown old.
As far as being much more specific, i definitely agree. I'll work on this next. I'll add more pictures oh how feasibly this all would be implemented in practice. I'll work on the descriptions of the features as well. Its true the video is not specific enough about the details.
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Yeah, I'm not convinced that it's coming then. We already have an observer mode in SC2 similiar to what they're proposing in the HOTS (not even SC2) patch notes. Not to mention, those (again, not SC2) patch notes are from October
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Holy shit I would LOVE a clan ladder!
HALO 2. The clan function basically made the experience of that game complete for me, and I made a bunch of really good friends I still talk to today from playing it. It's an amazing function that I can't understand why people don't make in newer games.
I think balance wouldn't be that hard. Make an mmr for the entire clan, match that first then match against individual mmr within the match. It would make this more of a community game as well, idk, even if its tough to do I think it's an awesome idea.
Nice post.
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Agreed - Clan Ladder would actually give people a reason to have clans
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On June 26 2015 04:22 tokinho wrote:
Recently, a Blizzard says big changes are coming.
Citation needed.
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So iCCup style?
edit: I've been meaning to sponsor something like this but I need to find the person to organize it.
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I like the idea of a "clan ladder"... I also like the idea of more in-depth/specialized upgrade paths. However, I don't like the idea of combining the two (if I understood correctly?).
Also, since T and Z already have different forms of units (Z can morph units from A > B and T can change unit modes) this is probably something that would just make the races more similar...
The clan ladder idea has a lot of potential though (anything that adds more social interaction is needed).
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On June 27 2015 19:26 paralleluniverse wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2015 04:22 tokinho wrote:
Recently, a Blizzard says big changes are coming. Citation needed.
I asked for the same thing, and OP cited a Heroes of the Storm update from last October
#confused
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On June 27 2015 23:01 wUndertUnge wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2015 19:26 paralleluniverse wrote:On June 26 2015 04:22 tokinho wrote:
Recently, a Blizzard says big changes are coming. Citation needed. I asked for the same thing, and OP cited a Heroes of the Storm update from last October #confused
No, that's a different reference.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/487612-lotv-beta-balance-update-preview-june-9
This is the one that hints at big changes coming.
I do want to reemphasize. The point of this post is to talk about reworking clan ladders and ways to introduce elements worth paying money for that would make the game more fun. Not about hints dropped in forums or general posts. I do apologize if I read the hints wrong, or if I'm presenting my ideas unclearly. I do appreciate your continued discussion on these topics though.
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On June 27 2015 20:43 y0su wrote:
I like the idea of a "clan ladder"... I also like the idea of more in-depth/specialized upgrade paths. However, I don't like the idea of combining the two (if I understood correctly?).
Also, since T and Z already have different forms of units (Z can morph units from A > B and T can change unit modes) this is probably something that would just make the races more similar...
The clan ladder idea has a lot of potential though (anything that adds more social interaction is needed).
Um.. so yeah. I kind of feel that what i'm more going for is a casual ladder. Something just to offer more ways to interact. Moreover, you have the standard ladders still. They still give ladder points and help to give your clan rank.
To improve the general public interaction, I feel that a lot of the community are not pros. I wanted to have a more casual system that helps clan rank, is fun, and brings in revenue. Ideally it would be as low work on blizzards end as possible while giving the highest return. I'll be updating some more of the tech tree diversity types when i do the vetoes, shop items, etc.
The more detailed i get, I think the more clearer the discussions about the diversity ideas will be.
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On June 27 2015 20:09 sYz-Adrenaline wrote:
So iCCup style?
edit: I've been meaning to sponsor something like this but I need to find the person to organize it.
Syz-Adrenaline, Could you be more explicit what you mean? Could you clarify what specific aspects of iccup you are referring too? Additionally, I've heard there are warcraft 3 clan options as well that were not included into sc2. If someone could explain i would be very interested in learning more.
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On June 28 2015 08:25 tokinho wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2015 20:09 sYz-Adrenaline wrote:
So iCCup style?
edit: I've been meaning to sponsor something like this but I need to find the person to organize it. Syz-Adrenaline, Could you be more explicit what you mean? Could you clarify what specific aspects of iccup you are referring too? Additionally, I've heard there are warcraft 3 clan options as well that were not included into sc2. If someone could explain i would be very interested in learning more.
iCCup used to have (and still kind of do) a fantastic clan league system. Division A where the top 10 clans battled it out against each other over 9 weeks (playing each other all once) and the top 4 would play a playoffs and win cash prizes. Then you have Divison B1/B2. Same system except the top 4 of both B1/B2 divisions would battle it out to advance to Division A over cash prizes. The bottom 4 of Division A would have to fight to stay in division A against the top Division B teams.Then you also had C Divisions where they battled to get into Division B due to the immense popularity of the clan league system. It was really nice and highly popular. But that was the gist.
edit: words.
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On June 28 2015 18:24 sYz-Adrenaline wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2015 08:25 tokinho wrote:On June 27 2015 20:09 sYz-Adrenaline wrote:
So iCCup style?
edit: I've been meaning to sponsor something like this but I need to find the person to organize it. Syz-Adrenaline, Could you be more explicit what you mean? Could you clarify what specific aspects of iccup you are referring too? Additionally, I've heard there are warcraft 3 clan options as well that were not included into sc2. If someone could explain i would be very interested in learning more. iCCup used to have (and still kind of do) a fantastic clan league system. Division A where the top 10 clans battled it out against each other over 9 weeks (playing each other all once) and the top 4 would play a playoffs and win cash prizes. Then you have Divison B1/B2. Same system except the top 4 of both B1/B2 divisions would battle it out to advance to Division A over cash prizes. The bottom 4 of Division A would have to fight to stay in division A against the top Division B teams.Then you also had C Divisions where they battled to get into Division B due to the immense popularity of the clan league system. It was really nice and highly popular. But that was the gist. edit: words.
This all sounds great...except any kind of clan war would have to be easier to set up on B.net. We have to remember that even though SCII is a hardcore game, many of the players we'd want to participate are casuals with jobs, kids, other games.
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On June 28 2015 18:24 sYz-Adrenaline wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2015 08:25 tokinho wrote:On June 27 2015 20:09 sYz-Adrenaline wrote:
So iCCup style?
edit: I've been meaning to sponsor something like this but I need to find the person to organize it. Syz-Adrenaline, Could you be more explicit what you mean? Could you clarify what specific aspects of iccup you are referring too? Additionally, I've heard there are warcraft 3 clan options as well that were not included into sc2. If someone could explain i would be very interested in learning more. iCCup used to have (and still kind of do) a fantastic clan league system. Division A where the top 10 clans battled it out against each other over 9 weeks (playing each other all once) and the top 4 would play a playoffs and win cash prizes. Then you have Divison B1/B2. Same system except the top 4 of both B1/B2 divisions would battle it out to advance to Division A over cash prizes. The bottom 4 of Division A would have to fight to stay in division A against the top Division B teams.Then you also had C Divisions where they battled to get into Division B due to the immense popularity of the clan league system. It was really nice and highly popular. But that was the gist. edit: words.
I agree. I would really like to have a more developed version of the clan league play. I especially like having a tiered system. So imagine there are 24 clans on all of starcraft. Than rank 1-8 all play each other, then 7 and 8 drop to tier 2 while 9 and 10 jump to tier 1. Also, I really like the idea of having sponsorship which is promoted through the Interface. I need to think a bit more on how that is easily integrated. This is in general what i'm thinking so far for format. I think it helps on how to develop weekly tournaments and have the matches available.
+ Show Spoiler +
Any comments about how to include better clan develoment are appreciated on this.
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On June 28 2015 20:38 wUndertUnge wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2015 18:24 sYz-Adrenaline wrote:On June 28 2015 08:25 tokinho wrote:On June 27 2015 20:09 sYz-Adrenaline wrote:
So iCCup style?
edit: I've been meaning to sponsor something like this but I need to find the person to organize it. Syz-Adrenaline, Could you be more explicit what you mean? Could you clarify what specific aspects of iccup you are referring too? Additionally, I've heard there are warcraft 3 clan options as well that were not included into sc2. If someone could explain i would be very interested in learning more. iCCup used to have (and still kind of do) a fantastic clan league system. Division A where the top 10 clans battled it out against each other over 9 weeks (playing each other all once) and the top 4 would play a playoffs and win cash prizes. Then you have Divison B1/B2. Same system except the top 4 of both B1/B2 divisions would battle it out to advance to Division A over cash prizes. The bottom 4 of Division A would have to fight to stay in division A against the top Division B teams.Then you also had C Divisions where they battled to get into Division B due to the immense popularity of the clan league system. It was really nice and highly popular. But that was the gist. edit: words. This all sounds great...except any kind of clan war would have to be easier to set up on B.net. We have to remember that even though SCII is a hardcore game, many of the players we'd want to participate are casuals with jobs, kids, other games.
That's why you conduct the league over a Saturday/Sunday when most people students/workers/parents have the time to play. You would just go to a preassigned channel for all to meet up in. You can't accommodate for everyone but you can accommodate for the masses. I believe most players are still between the ages of >16 - 28. While of course you still have your broodwar veterans that have been around for the 15 years+ in the 30 age range.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/e5J2NyP.png)
