H1Z1 - Sony's New MMO survival zombie game - Page 6
Forum Index > General Games |
randombum
United States2378 Posts
| ||
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22203 Posts
On January 22 2015 20:29 ItsFunToLose wrote: If you're level 27 and still don't have flat armor yellows and flat MR blues, you have ADHD. especially now that it takes forever to hit 30, and they reduced to cost of lower tier runes. play champions on free week until you find something you'd enjoy sticking with for more than 2 games and you won't have IP problems. unless you're smurfing, you're playing against others who also don't have optimal runes/masteries. its not like LOL offers a 10th rune slot (red blue yellow)for 99 cents, and a 4th quint for 1.99, or for 3.99 unlock all 4 new slots. aren;t you directly contradicting yourself now? On January 22 2015 20:09 ItsFunToLose wrote: any time you pay money to the developer of a game and in return receive anything at all that affects the outcome of the game in any way, you have entered pay to win territory. you can argue about where in the spectrum your game currently is, and how tolerable that is to some people, but you're absolutely now playing a pay to win game. it doesn't matter if you can do it legit for free, if you paid money to skip a grind, or advance in the agme, or unlock additional content that requires time, energy, etc. you are now playing a pay to win game. period. end of story. there is no other definition, you're a moron. I draw special attention to the last paragraph. You say that it doesn't matter if you can unlock everything for free. You say if you can pay to unlock additional content you would otherwise need to put in time and energy, you are now playing a pay to win game. How does this not describe league?? In league you can PAY money to RIOT to unlock a CHAMPION. Are you saying champions don't affect the outcome of a game??? | ||
Gowerly
United Kingdom916 Posts
I see a champ I like and I want to buy it but oops oh no I recently bought some Move speed Quints and now I have to play another 15 games before I can afford it. There's nothing in League you can't grind for, but the grind isn't ridiculously epic and once you have a rune page you're reasonably set to play that position (e.g. I have an AP jungle rune page and that will allow me to play all AP jungle heroes while I build up another page). The page itself doesn't go "PAY MORE OR I DISAPPEAR HUEHUE". In league, you can't pay money to instantly jump in levels (or even get level boosting?). The only things that make you more powerful are runes and you can only get those by levelling to 30. The content of the game is hidden behind a pay wall and I'm not that fond of it (Why play 10 champs when I can play 100+ heroes in dota for free?), but power itself is not given for money. It seems that in H1Z1, though, you can pay money for an immediate boost in power. That would be my definition of P2W. You give money, you get stronger immediately. On January 22 2015 20:44 ahswtini wrote: I draw special attention to the last paragraph. You say that it doesn't matter if you can unlock everything for free. You say if you can pay to unlock additional content you would otherwise need to put in time and energy, you are now playing a pay to win game. How does this not describe league?? In league you can PAY money to RIOT to unlock a CHAMPION. Are you saying champions don't affect the outcome of a game??? I would say no. Champions, in and of themselves, are balanced. Unless YOU know how to play the champ much better than every other champ, you're not getting an advantage by unlocking it. You're paying Riot, there, to have fun, to play a champion you like. You're not paying them to play a champion that can press R and kill everyone on the map. Levelling up in League is reasonably balanced. By the time you hit 30 you have enough IP to buy Tier 3 runes for a rune page that suits your specialty (and you largely have to have one as you won't have enough IP to by many champs on the way. I now main Nunu in literally every position). | ||
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22203 Posts
I think the way Riot homogenises champion design (at the expense of versatility) means they can get away with locking champions. Although at the highest levels of play, you do see the same few champions picked over and over again, but I don't want to turn this into a discussion about LoL's f2p model. | ||
Gowerly
United Kingdom916 Posts
For me it's whether it's possible to raise your character to a level unattainable by people who aren't paying. Rather than in the future, in a more immediate light. If, for example, in a 15 minute period, I can be playing and doing everything right, and someone else can whip out their credit card and after that time smear me against the scenery by being stronger than I could possibly be without doing that, that's Pay to Win for me. | ||
randombum
United States2378 Posts
I find it odd that in one game people can go "You can just invest time to get power (levels)" But in another people go "WTF YOU CAN BUY GUNS P2W!!" When you can buy levels and invest time to get guns. I personally like the definition of P2W to be that it gets you things that you cannot get by grinding. There aren't many anymore like this, but for example if you could buy a boost for +50 hp that you cannot earn by playing then that is P2W. I personally consider this model to be unacceptable in any form. Any other forms where everything is accessible eventually through time is not P2W, it's pay for advantage which I consider different. Then it just becomes a matter of degree between these two terms. If the advantage from paying gets to the point where the player who doesn't win has little to no chance of winning then I don't think it's good either. Most games I see have pay for advantage models that are fine. Specifically to h1z1 I don't see it as P2W, nor do I think that the bought advantage is too high. You aren't even guaranteed the drop, and it doesn't drop anything that you can't get by spending time in the game. | ||
Gowerly
United Kingdom916 Posts
If you can pay some money and use that power to stop people being able to grind their own stuff, then that isn't good. Winning a game in league doesn't take away rune pages from your opponents, it just makes them lose their game. | ||
randombum
United States2378 Posts
It all comes down to how extreme of an advantage it provides and it doesn't seem like it's overkill. It seems like people just use P2W to insult/attack games they don't like and overlook the pay for advantage aspects of games that they do. Random league comment + Show Spoiler + On the other hand in league when I tried playing it I felt the P2W to be extremely high. My level 6 or so account facing lvl 30's who basically did double my damage and had access to better spells made me extremely frustrated to the point that I quit. I would never win my lane because it was impossible to do so under those conditions. | ||
Gowerly
United Kingdom916 Posts
On January 22 2015 21:22 randombum wrote: + Show Spoiler + On the other hand in league when I tried playing it I felt the P2W to be extremely high. My level 6 or so account facing lvl 30's who basically did double my damage and had access to better spells made me extremely frustrated to the point that I quit. I would never win my lane because it was impossible to do so under those conditions. If you're playing against level 30 accounts, there's hardly any chance they are P2W. I was playing against level 30 accounts at level 6, too. They were just people that had been playing for ages. It's impossible (as far as I'm aware) to get yourself level boosted. There's nothing that gets you experience faster (as far as I'm aware), so these people have played just many more games to get to 30. That is not Pay to Win in the slightest, it's just shitty Matchmaking. | ||
NukeD
Croatia1612 Posts
| ||
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22203 Posts
| ||
randombum
United States2378 Posts
And the difference between a lvl 6 and a lvl 30 is much much much bigger than a person with a shot gun in h1z1 vs a person with a bow. and the needed time to get to 30 would be far more than to get shotgun. On January 22 2015 21:39 NukeD wrote: I think it is safe to say that there is no official definition of pay2win so every persons explanation is good as anyones else. Depends on if you feel you are being screwed over if you are not willing to put in real money. He says it well. I don't think players who don't pay are screwed in H1Z1 (Or LoL). | ||
KeksX
Germany3634 Posts
In LoL, if you lose a match, you still gain stuff. | ||
NoobSkills
United States1577 Posts
| ||
hariooo
Canada2830 Posts
| ||
NoobSkills
United States1577 Posts
On January 23 2015 00:15 hariooo wrote: Isn't that just an admission by the devs that the original iteration of the airdrop was unquestionably P2W or so close as to deserve the change? I think the change was more to avoid the bad PR. The nerfed speed of the drop allows more players to get there, but before the patch ~20 people would be there almost every time. And the chance now of getting a gun is lower as well, but before it wasn't that high. When you play you realize quickly how fucked you would be if you called in a drop. Also you can't even control the location where it drops, it isn't even like a crew could setup on the drop zone, you have to chase it along with everyone else. Now even I only go to PvP for amusement because looting buildings and other players and zombies is 10x the loot of an air drop. They zombie system btw is really fucking cool. If a player dies and nobody gets their gear a zombie will walk around with that gear and drop it on their death. I have gone from just having a bow to fully geared so many times off just a couple lucky zombie kills. | ||
ahswtini
Northern Ireland22203 Posts
| ||
NoobSkills
United States1577 Posts
On January 23 2015 00:59 ahswtini wrote: Does a dead player actually turn into a zombie (like reanimate), or does a random zombie just spawn with their loot on it? I am not 100% sure on the mechanic, because you can loot a player after you kill them. This is what I assume happens. You kill player X, player X drops loot if you opt not to loot him entirely the loot bag that drops will eventually spawn a zombie, perhaps on the same location or perhaps nearby. The mechanic isn't, however, as seamless as it should be. Really the body should be there, able to be looted, but after Y time it should rise up as a corpse. That would be cool, but hunting zombies gives you other benefits, so this doesn't bother me. | ||
Nimix
France1809 Posts
On January 23 2015 00:59 ahswtini wrote: Does a dead player actually turn into a zombie (like reanimate), or does a random zombie just spawn with their loot on it? I think the loot goes onto a nearby zombie if nobody claimed it after 5mn. A zombie spawns where a player died every time, though. | ||
TheExile19
513 Posts
On January 23 2015 00:59 ahswtini wrote: Does a dead player actually turn into a zombie (like reanimate), or does a random zombie just spawn with their loot on it? in terms of game mechanics the latter, but it seems implied that from an internal reality perspective it's supposed to be the player rising as a zombie. I've never seen any kind of animation where a player becomes a zombie, and I've killed a lot of players and zombies around the motels trying to get quest keys (only ever gotten 2, and I lost one when I went afk on a hill to piss and some lucky guy found me). edit: found a third key, started to go what I thought was west, wandered to the edge of the map where I just instantly died. god fucking damn it. edit2: log back on a couple hours later on the server where I found an absurd amount of loot, start down the hill I logged off on and am 20 feet from 4 armed people around a fire. mmmk. | ||
| ||