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On January 09 2015 09:31 jarjarbinks wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 09:26 Tubesock wrote:On January 09 2015 09:18 jarjarbinks wrote:
Also reasons that the above doesn't work: coaches...
dang u coaches. Also, you really need to start bleeding town. I think people will see my as scum until I die. Honestly trying super hard after Exo blew up on me day 1.
that unfortunately is a risk (SORRY WARWAFFLE!!!). But some advice from a terrible newby.
I was on the wagon for D2 in Carol. I think I led the day early on too. I decided to bleed myself to death. I came up with some cracked out tin foil magic unicorn hat stuff. I relentlessly attacked and pushed my mostly incorrect reads and in a very bizarre and rude way. Eventually, people realized I didn't fear death and we were able to kill one of my scums that day. Although Trfel gets the credit for it as he was the deciding factor for people to move to that wagon.
I see a worlds where you are either or. If you are town, then it shouldn't be too tough to bleed it.
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Okay. To be clear, Tube my friend, you are not really a town-read for me right now  You seem to think you're getting a pass just cause I'm not questioning you. That you appeared to be heavily tunneled is undeniable, and that would be the answer to any question I asked you. Thus I see no point in questioning why you were voting WW.
That said, your participation today, and really throughout the game, does seem towny to me at first glance. Your "tinfoil hat" theory is a possible one, though HTS is right that it is just one of several possibilities.
Mostly I just wanted to know what happened to you, since you were participating so much earlier but then seemed to not care to. Your posting today debunks that though.
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On January 09 2015 09:44 rsoultin wrote:Okay. To be clear, Tube my friend, you are not really a town-read for me right now You seem to think you're getting a pass just cause I'm not questioning you. That you appeared to be heavily tunneled is undeniable, and that would be the answer to any question I asked you. Thus I see no point in questioning why you were voting WW. That said, your participation today, and really throughout the game, does seem towny to me at first glance. Your "tinfoil hat" theory is a possible one, though HTS is right that it is just one of several possibilities. Mostly I just wanted to know what happened to you, since you were participating so much earlier but then seemed to not care to. Your posting today debunks that though.
I'll answer any question you have. I'm doing my best to be as transparent as possible. I'm feeling left out that not many people are asking me stuff.
I was on my weekly date night last night.
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Lol, what would I ask you, Tube?
Why did you scumread WW? It's in your filter. Why didn't you pay attention to his claim? It's in your filter. Would you answer differently as scum or as town? Nope. This is why I'm not asking, and probably why most aren't.
Though I can ask and will ask for your reads...if you had to pick only two people out of all of us left, who would you lynch as scum? That's the answer I'm trying to work out for myself right now. ^^ I'll post here once I narrow it down and get my thoughts organized.
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On January 09 2015 08:12 Half the Sky wrote:LS, for you. Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 02:09 LightningStrike wrote:
What question did I miss from you because I thought I answered all of your questions? Operative words in bold, extend all quotes. Show nested quote +On January 08 2015 07:31 The Shining wrote:On January 08 2015 06:32 LightningStrike wrote:On January 08 2015 05:45 Half the Sky wrote:
LS, can you explain what differentiated WW from Shining at the time you voted him? I just tunelled to hard while I was worried about my mom but at least she is feeling much better now. I just couldn't concentrate at all at the time but WW was way more inactive in the thread that all I remember why I went after WW and also I was liking rsoultins post on why to vote WW too. I so lost right now to be honest with you like maybe one of my town reads is scum this game and I just denying it. I hope Day 2 gives me a fresh start on who is scum and who isn't. In the first post, LS is claiming to be ready to go all-in on me. [b]Next post is a claim of tunneling too hard, which LS did not do(Tube did) and a blatant avoiding of a question. LS did not explain what differentiated WW from me at the time.
TheWarWaffle looked worse than Shining but I now town reading Shining at least for now. The soft claim was really horrible play by TheWarWaffle at least in my eyes and didn't believe he was blue due to the soft claim. The way TheWarWaffle had said learned many things looking at that guide and the way he wasn't doing any scum hunting except for analyzing HTS post really bothered me too.
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Also rsoultin I didn't know you work everyday sorry my lady 
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On January 09 2015 09:51 rsoultin wrote:
Lol, what would I ask you, Tube?
Why did you scumread WW? It's in your filter. Why didn't you pay attention to his claim? It's in your filter. Would you answer differently as scum or as town? Nope. This is why I'm not asking, and probably why most aren't.
Though I can ask and will ask for your reads...if you had to pick only two people out of all of us left, who would you lynch as scum? That's the answer I'm trying to work out for myself right now. ^^ I'll post here once I narrow it down and get my thoughts organized.
Without question it's -Celestial-. I'm on him now, I even made a pretty post I'm so proud of with a baby seal trying to hide in it.
I don't know what you'd ask. You were asking where I was, so I was hoping that meant you had some questions.
What do you think about the latest interaction between Celestial, ExO and I?
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oh sorry I missed you wanted 2 people.
I'm on Celestial.
My other 3 suspects are JarJar, Gumdrops, and Silverarte.
My reasoning on the 3 are weaksauce but I am not going to push on them till D3, and by then if they haven't started bleeding town I'm going with my least town read one of them. Which I'll figure out after either Celestial, LS, or Shining die today.
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Ok. So...rsoultin. The bulk of my case on rsoultin does not come down to individual posting analysis but by posts vs actions.
Firstly: her opening. Whilst people have argued that its not exactly out of the ordinary I didn't like the surface-level questioning going on. To quote myself:
On January 06 2015 01:32 -Celestial- wrote:
My logic is something like this: there seemed to be a lack of interest in actually identifying what someone is but more looking for anything that might indicate someone is different from the rest. A tell that just indicates that someone is a little bit different. But that could mean either mafia or a blue and you can't know which without working out a more detailed read. Who would just want to know if someone is "different"? Well, the mafia of course, because they KNOW they're scum, so anyone who is different from the rest and not one of them is a blue. So by jumping about any tells found are likely to be indicative of blues, since they already know the mafia. A VT or blue wouldn't necessarily know if certain tells were because of scum or a fellow blue; which means their hunting would feel different to this.
What it came down to for me is that, in contrast to ExO's early bouncing around which appeared to have some merit because of the quick analysis every single one of his bounces seemed to contain...rsoultin just seemed to be poking people for a reaction, any reaction. Which to me read like she already knew who the mafia were and therefore any unusual reaction would be a blue. Admittedly not the most conclusive of evidence but it was what set me on the path of being suspicious.
Ok so moving onto the second point. Her early replies. Consistently replying to people. Good. Didn't OMGUS me despite my initial read. Calm response which is good but for one she's a more experienced player so should know that OMGUS is a poor play anyway and secondly I think was the only one who was reading any scum on her? Not 100% here but I think I was, so nothing to panic about. Reads on Shining and calls him out for copying my explanation. More townie stuff. Called out Tube for effectively OMGUSing ExO. Tentatively implies a Shining vote but locks in nothing. Which isn't too bad at this stage because its only about two hours into the second half of D1. But its the first step in the long road to the D1 blue lynch. Moves the discussion onto LS but reads him as possible town due to meta.
Interestingly at this point rsoultin contradicts LS when he brings up that the case against Shining appears to be just meta. Some kind of deliberate attempt to work with LS to distance themselves from each other? i.e. LS brings up a weak argument against rsoultin's main read and rsoultin bats it down? Not sure, its possible I guess.
Later she says she's ok with LS, enough not to D1 lynch. These two things together give me a slight feeling that if LS flips mafia rsoultin might do too. But this also implies to me that Shining and LS are probably on opposite sides. So if one side is mafia the other isn't. Hence my earlier difficulty of the fact I think both of them feel scummy. That being said, rsoultin did not go through with the D1 lynch vote on Shining so maybe they could be together after all, with LS bussing Shining because Shining was in a weak position? Not sure because her case against Shining was very strong indeed. This is getting a bit convoluted. Lets move on.
rsoultin goes on to try to cross-examine Shining a bit which is good again.
THEN comes the big part. Point three...the mislynch. rsoultin parks the vote on WW to get him talking. Despite the suspicions she wants to give Shining a chance to speak, which isn't alignment indicative but only a few hours earlier she'd been citing it as her top scumread and even mentioned to Tubesock that it was likely to be her vote.
In the meantime she goes back to address the bluehunting thing. I'm not entirely sure what brought that on because the only discussion about it by that point was me saying "To me at that point rsoultin looked to me like she was bluehunting" and Tube saying that at that point he thought ExO had looked like he was bluehunting. There were no direct accusations. Her reply was well thought out anyway, but it seemed to somewhat miss the original point I'd made. I put that down to misinterpretation though.
Anyway the vote does get him talking a bit. But then posts what I found to be the most surprising comment of all:
i want to lynch shining. i will settle for ww.
Before stating that she had 20 minutes and then her vote was locked.
Ok, lets review...she had spent a long time building up Shining as a lynch target but made literally no effort to change anybody's minds. The current votes at the time were 4 on WW and 1 on Shining with 3 on LS. But at least three of those votes on WW (rsoultin herself, Tubesock and LS) were absolutely ACTIVE during this time period. Just TWO of those changed would have made it 3 on Shining to 2 on WW. Trfel was also actively on at that point and indeed later changed his vote (just a fraction after rsoultin left unfortunately). And yet rsoultin didn't change her vote; despite the fact that a large part of the reason for people even being on WW in the first place was sheeping her. She even went so far as to make an argument against Shining about twelve minutes before leaving but STILL didn't change despite knowing that people were active in the thread.
What would be the scenario if she'd changed? 3 on WW, 2 on Shining and 3 on LS. I think WW would still be lynched under those circumstances but Trfel was to later change as a result of rsoultin's comments (from LS to Shining) and given LS's sheeping onto rsoultin its quite likely a change there too. Who knows what Tube might have done? I'd already posted that I was on jarjar but I think from my posts it was fairly obvious I was looking for a reason to change; though one might argue its not fair for her to know that. And ok so she couldn't have known Trfel's change was coming but there still doesn't appear to be a strong reason not to change to try and drive the vote switch.
My thoughts on why: If rsoultin is town then unless she is incredibly sure that LS is less mafia than WW there appears to be no reason not to change votes to Shining and try to encourage people to do the same. The only way LS gets lynched is if nobody switches off him and only rsoultin switches to WW (I'm going to just assume that Shining would have voted LS as a counterwagon here, though jarjar was still to vote too). There was a very high chance of other people switching with her vote switch since the WW train started entirely BECAUSE of her original vote. Then rather than attempting to go for a read she had already detailed in full...and indeed reinforced by her last analysis post before leaving...she just left the vote on a relatively weak pressure vote train that had started.
So then she's away. Then the flip. Then back in with pointing fingers over the whole thing. That isn't necessarily alignment indicative because everyone was annoyed by the blue kill, but as the chief architect of that kill the attempts to shift the blame were somewhat over the top. Two people were already heavily implicated (Tube and LS), but rsoultin explicitly calls out those on the periphery (myself because of a wasted vote and Shining who was transparently counterwagonning, despite claiming otherwise). We had some very long discussions about that whole thing which were...kinda resolved kinda not I guess? Difference of opinion on approach to voting I suppose, but reflecting on the votes themselves it was actually a lot closer and more likely to change around the time rsoultin was on than she implied in those discussions. Sure there was one vote on Shining, but since extra votes would be coming from WW's total it would flip around fast.
Since then its been a lot of talk about Shining and things like that. Nothing much alignment indicative. Calling out tube for not posting, that kind of stuff. Back to the routine of hunting.
But in short my feeling comes from the way the whole of Day 1 was approached and concluded. She opened with a lot of surface-level probing at people which wouldn't have shown very much at all apart from possibly given away that someone was something (which could be blue or scum). Then moved onto Shining hard for most of the day only to suddenly turn around and dump the vote on WW as a pressure vote. And then leave it there, even though people were in thread to change their vote, despite acknowledging she had a better read on Shining. Conveniently away for the vote itself she then comes back outraged that the blue was lynched.
Of course this could have happened if she is mafia or town. Mistakes happen. But as a narrative I can't help but get a mafia vibe off it. Hard push on Shining but getting no blue reads off him. So instead take a shot at an inactive player, WW, to try to flush him out as well; you've already got a case on Shining to fall back on (lets leave aside the issue of whether Shining is involved in this for now, it hurts my head to work it out). Make a token effort to further push your case against Shining but keep the vote and consequently the pressure on WW. You've already made an excuse for likely missing EoD so you can afford to just afk now and see where the chips fall; if you get a sudden blue reading on anyone you can always come back in at the end to argue your case and try to flip it onto someone else. After WW claims blue, celebrate because job done. Come back in afterwards to complain about everyone having lynched a blue whilst you weren't around and you're away smelling of roses.
Alternatively it could just be a crap situation of a mislynch going through because of a judgement call on a vote change and people sheeping it and being unwilling to change votes. Either way I don't think this is entirely without merit.
In short: I like rsoultin's analysis, but I'm not sure about what she's actually doing with it. The two do not seem to align. She's made several arguments against this and I've bought some of it, but as a whole the thing still seems extremely fishy; and as a more experienced player I'd expect her to be less blatant anyway.
I should go. I'm exhausted, been here for hours now (this post literally started when I posted that last one so its been about an hour twenty to an hour and a half of solid writing and digging up the details I could find, I'm wrecked so I'm sure there's a mistake or two in here; but you wanted an analysis of someone I was leaning scum with, here's one here).
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Anyway, there you go, ExO. You wanted some stuff and there it is.
Tube wanted it too but I believe he's already tunneling on me on the basis of NK analysis so...yeah.
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Since the question was thrown out there
My scum reads at this time are LS, JJB, followed by Gumdrop largely because of the lurking. Silverarte is a null to very slight town read, but I feel I need to see more from her. There is a part of me that when I read her stuff again, I can't tell if she's truly getting to the same conclusion as other people or if she's just sheeping (or copying) other people on most of her reads.
I have acknowledged she is difficult to read, input from JJB on her isn't anything conclusive though he cited her work schedule, and out of game situations are not alignment indicative. The longer the game goes on, I have to entertain whether her manner could be a way of hiding something but I am having a tough time cracking this.
Tube, you suspect her as well, can you elaborate why?
Celestial and ExO right now are still under review given the content I see from them today. I'm going through the exchange between him Tube and ExO right now. Good lord a lot of content from Celestial in defence and I am trying to see if what he's posted in the few hours lines up. If anyone wants to point out anything specific, let me know please.
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Also...of course...nothing personal rsoultin. Its just how I've seen your overall posts go. I know we've discussed it in bits and pieces over time but as a whole I'm still suspicious.
Anyway, goodnight.
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On January 09 2015 10:35 -Celestial- wrote:
Also...of course...nothing personal rsoultin. Its just how I've seen your overall posts go. I know we've discussed it in bits and pieces over time but as a whole I'm still suspicious.
Anyway, goodnight.
Good case, much better than your other one. I'll do some more reading and consider your case. I'll be back with questions.
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Oh and I'm sorry I can't answer more questions tonight. Thing is I've been actively writing and getting bombarded with stuff for something like six hours straight now by a bunch of people (I started addressing stuff at like quarter to 8 or something, its ten to two in the morning right now and I've only moved for a twenty minute break to get food). I'm exhausted and my mind is totally fatigued. I badly need a rest.
I'll try to make sure I've not missed any by checking over tomorrow. Goodnight.
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I don't get anything from her list post here. I don't think there is anything memorable in it. Where is she scum hunting? When is the point in the game where your only posts are list posts inappropriate? It's a big long post (which people town sometimes) but where is any point where she shows indepth concern or thinking on someone?
I definitely have problems with lacking conviction the longer the game goes. I feel every one of her reads will turn into a sheep vote of one form or another. Just like Lightning but she says nice things that make way more sense than he does.
On January 08 2015 14:35 Silverarte wrote:
Well! Soultin took pity on me and told me about the Filter function. Let me tell you...that helps so much. (Who knew that going page by page out of all of these was a 'bad' idea? XD)
So, I think first and foremost...I owe a recap of what I think everyone is!
The Shining: You, my friend, are getting scum votes all over the place! And I'm not entirely sure what to make of you just yet. Part of this is certainly my inexperience, but I felt you defended yourself relatively well here in your second post. The first ones you gave flipped back and forth, but it looks like you're backing your decision this round. I'm neutral, leaning towards towne.
HTS: You asked my motivations and thoughts on what's transpired so far. Personally, my first thought is 'Crap, we're getting picked off!". In regards to Waffle, you're right, I sheeped (I believe this means when we're following the votes of others rather than something else, right?). I did this because the cases being made were more reasonable to me at the time. When I was scumming ExO and Gumdrop, I wanted to give them the opportunity to respond before I condemed. I can't say I tunneled, but the sudden silence on Waffle's part made me more suspicious than anything.
As for how I feel about you? (Sheesh I wish we didn't keep missing each other! Well, if I survive til the weekend, I have that off? =D) You've been very consistent and straight forward. You are a straight on town read for me. What are your assessments currently?
Also, in answer to your last post you popped up...I have never played this game before. I am a complete newbie and this is game number 1. (Soultin had been talking about Mafia games continually and I told her I'd try it out). So if it's hard to read me, believe me when I say I find it difficult to read all of you. I'll keep trying though. =)
LS: You are a constant poster, and points to you for that. You do a great job keeping other posters engaged and getting people talking and questioning. I looked through your filter through the beginning. (talk about a read!). Currently, looking through your posts, i'm reading a lot of generalization and little to no specifics on your reads at the moment. I'm growing steadily suspicious of you, particularly with your votes following the 'sheeping trend' (hee...I like that phrase), but I'm seeing little to nothing else. Can you tell me how you're feeling on the people here in, in what way you're leaning and why?
JarJar: I'm not sure what EOD means, but yes, that whole crazy paying the bills thing is biting me in the rear at the moment. Now then...let me bump back to replying to your post at me. That being said, I'm not sure if you just called me out on being scum or not. So, I'll respond as though you did and if you didn't? Weelll...bonus information? =D
I'm discovering one of the hardest things about defending yourself from that view is activity with posting. To compensate, I do my best to post when I come home and before going to work. THAT said...my vote on Waffle was indeed sheeping with Rsoultin. She wrote a good defense and looking back through the posts (which I was going page by page at the time...gosh I love filters) it made logical sense to me. And for me, that matters. That said, in defense against being scum, while I sheeped a vote, I have not tunneled towards anyone and I've been open and honest about what I thought and why.
So let me direct a question or two towards you. You aren't out of the suspicion waters yet with me! =P Following what you said about voting LS, what is your reasoning for it? What ranks him above Tube or Shining?
Gumdrop: I have to admit, I'm more than a little concerned about you not posting,my friend. When you show up, share your thoughts! Who's suspicious? Who isn't?
Celestial: You're been prolific in your posting, and it's led me to think town for you at first. The throwing away of your vote (as you put it) still puts a redmark on you to watch. I think my biggest fret is the free town passes early, straight to the vote...and then I'm not seeing much here about trying to contribute for the town and it feels floaty about-ish. Is Rsoultin your biggest target right now? Why?
Tubeshock: I'm just neutral on you. You put thought into short bits of words. I'd be really interested in knowing what you think of everyone at this point too. Are JarJar and Shining still your top picks?
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On January 09 2015 10:35 -Celestial- wrote:
Also...of course...nothing personal rsoultin. Its just how I've seen your overall posts go. I know we've discussed it in bits and pieces over time but as a whole I'm still suspicious.
Anyway, goodnight.
Quite simply, if you knew that I said I didn't agree with an LS lynch on Day 1, then it should be obvious why I didn't change my vote to Shining when he only had one vote. Trfel, LS and Tubesock all were not responding favorably enough to my case to suggest a vote change.
You're right. We disagree. You think that leaving your vote on a complete non-wagon just to be "consistent" is appropriate. I think that trying to make your vote worthwhile and lynch the most likely option to flip scum is appropriate.
I had no way to know that Trfel would change his mind after I left. Nor to know that JarJar would vote there at EoD.
You can choose to believe me or not. That's your prerogative. Simply put, I will play the same way, and have played the same way in the past. I actively push for vote consolidation to try to lynch the most likely scum of the ones people are willing to vote. -shrugs-
You can continue voting by yourself if you want. Just don't expect me not to scumread you for it.
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On January 09 2015 10:52 -Celestial- wrote:
Oh and I'm sorry I can't answer more questions tonight. Thing is I've been actively writing and getting bombarded with stuff for something like six hours straight now by a bunch of people (I started addressing stuff at like quarter to 8 or something, its ten to two in the morning right now and I've only moved for a twenty minute break to get food). I'm exhausted and my mind is totally fatigued. I badly need a rest.
I'll try to make sure I've not missed any by checking over tomorrow. Goodnight.
No worries, we have more than 1.5 hours before EoD for you to answer them 
Good night.
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On January 09 2015 11:01 Tubesock wrote:
I don't get anything from her list post here. I don't think there is anything memorable in it. Where is she scum hunting? When is the point in the game where your only posts are list posts inappropriate? It's a big long post (which people town sometimes) but where is any point where she shows indepth concern or thinking on someone?
I definitely have problems with lacking conviction the longer the game goes. I feel every one of her reads will turn into a sheep vote of one form or another. Just like Lightning but she says nice things that make way more sense than he does.
Well I try and ignore the tone of certain players when they post. 27NB runs into the same problem to use another example. I have already seen in other games people have been wrongfully read for their tone alone. I look for asking questions, which she does do, but it shouldn't be the only thing after some time. I look for things beyond that at certain points of the game. D1 this is okay, and maybe D2, but after that, I would expect some prioritisation of scumreads. But that's just me looking at my first game here.
Looking more in depth at that post for example, the word "recap" is generally speaking, a red flag. Scum tend to repeat things sometimes without taking things further. Yes she should be updating her reads, but "recap" makes me wonder as I read through if she's doing just that as she gives her reads. Which is why I think you are getting the impression that you are, Tube.
I'm aware she's short on time, she appears short on time to play this game...but that's not alignment indicative. So it is hard to determine if it's coincidence or convenience.
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On January 09 2015 11:19 Half the Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 11:01 Tubesock wrote:
I don't get anything from her list post here. I don't think there is anything memorable in it. Where is she scum hunting? When is the point in the game where your only posts are list posts inappropriate? It's a big long post (which people town sometimes) but where is any point where she shows indepth concern or thinking on someone?
I definitely have problems with lacking conviction the longer the game goes. I feel every one of her reads will turn into a sheep vote of one form or another. Just like Lightning but she says nice things that make way more sense than he does. Well I try and ignore the tone of certain players when they post. 27NB runs into the same problem to use another example. I have already seen in other games people have been wrongfully read for their tone alone. I look for asking questions, which she does do, but it shouldn't be the only thing after some time. I look for things beyond that at certain points of the game. D1 this is okay, and maybe D2, but after that, I would expect some prioritisation of scumreads. But that's just me looking at my first game here. Looking more in depth at that post for example, the word "recap" is generally speaking, a red flag. Scum tend to repeat things sometimes without taking things further. Yes she should be updating her reads, but "recap" makes me wonder as I read through if she's doing just that as she gives her reads. Which is why I think you are getting the impression that you are, Tube. I'm aware she's short on time, she appears short on time to play this game...but that's not alignment indicative. So it is hard to determine if it's coincidence or convenience.
That's more or less why I think D3 I'm going after the scummier of the three lurkers. Plus, D2 vote information and the night kill will hopefully narrow things down. I'm expecting JarJar to bleed if he's town, as his sister keeps saying he's smart and capable.
I know Rsoultin and ExO suspected Celestial at night1 and some of his reaction to the lynch made me wft him for a second. He kept saying how he wasn't sure how the wagon started, and that he was going to investigate it. He isn't acting like he's figured it out yet, nor is he really trying. It's not very towny to need to be a wagon to finally start doing something.
I think it's scummy because I also think the WW lynch was fairly simple.
Some of us were talking in thread. Silverarte and gumdrops were called out for doing a "Hi I'm here post but won't do anything" post. I called for Silver several times. She at least answered (with a list post which I'm totally fine with). She showed up, and demonstrated reading of the thread. No scum hunting though.
People go to bed, I'm up for a couple more hours and when I went to bed I pressure voted Gumdrop. He finally showed up.
At this point Warwaffle was really the only extreme lurker left. Rsoultin pressures. Silver and LS jump on for their reasons. At this point I thought it was still a pressure vote just with 3 people on it.
Then WarWaffle posts. Several people ask questions. He makes this bad bad post.
TubesockJihad begins. Which was wrong but he was scummy enough to keep everyone on him.
Seems pretty simple and straight forward to me. Most everyone was actively asking questions, and I felt that Celestial wasn't. Rsoultin and then ExO started asking him questions, and Celestial didn't do any scumhunting he went to pure defense.
I don't think I can blame him for defending himself rather than scumhunting though. Although, that isn't necessarily the tact I would take.
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Gumdrop, I need you to clear something up for me, if you can be bothered to join us here.
Were you around during EoD Day 1?
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EPT
