|
On December 18 2014 07:09 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 02:50 MarlieChurphy wrote: I've noticed in the last couple of years, perhaps it's just me, perhaps it's society quietly mutating, but there is a bit of a distinction in some specific mentalities of the people on the internet, or on speaking to other people in general.
Previously, I noticed that when males speak/type they use a more specific get to the point, concrete, facts way of communication. And females would be different, with the focus more on the overall setting or mood etc (i'm not female so it's hard for me to specify this in a more loving way). In general this is true, and I understand there are always exceptions. And of course there is nothing wrong with this, males and females are not the same and have pros and cons to each. That's how humans work together to be great.
Because of this, I thought it was usually somewhat easy, more than 50% of the time to be able to tell if a man or a woman wrote something, without having seen the person or even really reading the entire text. Just a snippet of context or a paragraph could be enough. However, lately onto my main point, a previously very clear 'giveaway' or distinction was that males would say something like: "I disagree because I think..." and a woman would say something like "I disagree, I feel that..." In any given context this used to hold true at a majority rate (unless I was simply not noticing it before, kinda like how you tend to notice a specific car with the same color more once you know someone who has it). Maybe I'm entirely wrong about this, but it seems that I see more and more males writing or even saying "I feel like...". And I have heard other people, smarter people, mention things along these lines.
This is interesting to me, and I am curious if there is a sort of consciousness shift of the population in the way we speak, or perhaps evolving our weaker traits in order to be better humans etc. Who knows.
Along the lines of this are other noticeable things that have been studies, such as how mtf transgender brains are wired differently, more female, yet still have male passions and pursuits in a lot of cases that appear more male on paper. And the ftm transpeople don't seem to have a similar type of brain, they almost seem to be trying too hard to appear male and only have manly hobbies etc. But again maybe that is just a stigma on gender roles, where females are more accepted to do anything and males are not. Who knows.
Another thing, is recent studies on gay parent couples. Traditionally, all things being equal, it is best to have a father and mother, as they both provide very specific and well understood roles on childhood development. However, science says that the gay brains are wired more well rounded in that they can fulfill both roles just as well, or almost as well as the dual gender parental unit.
Is this all part of human evolution, are we slowing adapting into a single type of brain wiring that better understands and is more efficient at being the social animal? Is this actually a bad mutation for the human race in the long run?
I'm getting a little off topic, but basically I have just noticed that males seem to sound less male these days, and I'm not saying its bad or good, just curious about it. Perhaps it has something to do with the fact that there are too many controls in society now, life is not as simple as it used to be in a day to day life of a male, etc. etc. Perhaps we are adopting a more repressed/oppressed role that most females have felt for so long. Maybe that's just always been bullshit? Who knows.
Or maybe it's just something each man goes through as he gets older and wiser, and becomes less under the influence of the most powerful drug in the world, testosterone.
What exactly are you noticing? That men and women tend to act differently? Good job bro. Or men are acting "less male"? How can you act less male if you are male? You mean like less like the norm stereotype you have to expect that when you with mass spread of information you can't just go on talking trash and shit because you end up getting a lawsuit LOL I mean if you think of manly stereotypes like fighting, killing, raping, harassing women, lot of that shit is illegal LOL so its gonna drop We'll adapt to whatever increases our chances at reproduction as we always have.
Maybe he's saying that he's been producing less sperm than normal, and is wondering if it is due to his body not producing enough testosterone. Or perhaps he's growing boobs because his body is also producing way too much estrogen. Have you thought of that? Or do you just rush to ridicule?
|
|
On December 18 2014 07:36 Onekobold wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 07:26 Alzadar wrote: I'm pretty sure we're in agreement, just that you're making a distinction between gender roles and how people treat other genders, and I'm lumping them both in one container.
To refine my example, if boys were harassed for blowing raspberries, then trans men would blow more raspberries than cis men. well I'm not in agreement with the idea that trans women are more masculine than cis women or the reverse being true for trans men, which is what I got from your posts. If I misunderstood that then I guess we're good to go!
Well that's the thing, gaming obviously isn't a sexual trait, but it's something men do somewhat more than women. Does that make it masculine?
|
|
On December 18 2014 07:36 Onekobold wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 07:26 Alzadar wrote: I'm pretty sure we're in agreement, just that you're making a distinction between gender roles and how people treat other genders, and I'm lumping them both in one container.
To refine my example, if boys were harassed for blowing raspberries, then trans men would blow more raspberries than cis men. well I'm not in agreement with the idea that trans women are more masculine than cis women or the reverse being true for trans men, which is what I got from your posts. If I misunderstood that then I guess we're good to go!
This is a weird thing though. It seems like theres a common perception that it is all social conditioning and stuff, and I know the SJW's backlash a lot against anyone who says otherwise because of all widespread unacceptance of trans people. However we have to realize that you can make any number of theories of things but unless its backed up by science its all speculation. So if we have a trans woman she will likely retain some of the effects of testosterone from puberty (if it happened later) on the brain.
We don't know much for certain so I can't think you can just say "you disagree" just to make trans people feel more accepted. We should instead accept so called "masculine" traits or "feminine" traits in people no matter who they are.
|
|
Or maybe the use of feel instead of think, is simply a more PC way of voicing an opinion without sounding so aggressive or pissing people off. ie; a tool of manipulation that women have been (unknowingly) been using all along?
I've noticed a lot of companies are doing this as well: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/17222794
|
On December 18 2014 08:04 Onekobold wrote: I haven't said anything in this thread because I'm a sjw, I'm saying it because I'm trans and it's my opinion on things. Chances are I'm also more educated on transgenderism too, considering that I actually have gender dysphoria and am medically transitioning.
I can't accurately judge the effect being male has had on my brain because its the only brain i've ever had. Why you should know how your brain differs from a cis person?
On December 18 2014 08:22 MarlieChurphy wrote:Or maybe the use of feel instead of think, is simply a more PC way of voicing an opinion without sounding so aggressive or pissing people off. ie; a tool of manipulation that women have been (unknowingly) been using all along? I've noticed a lot of companies are doing this as well: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/17222794
Because saying "I think X" means you are voicing a direct concrete opinion and if you say "I feel X" it kinda like a vague statement that puts you in a spectrum at leasts that's how I see it. I wouldn't say you "unknowingly" do something to be "manipulative" its trying to communicate effectively. If people react too strongly on something you thought was a minor issue or something you were willing to be flexible on perhaps the problem isn't people overreacting but the problem is how you communicated it poorly.
|
Right, so why is it that people are being more vague these days? Why were women doing that in the first place? Is there some sort of fear of backlash constantly? Why can't people just say X and be ok with being wrong or right and then possibly change that X to Y later on and word it the same way?
These sorts of social controls feel bad to me, intuitively.
|
On December 18 2014 08:22 MarlieChurphy wrote:Or maybe the use of feel instead of think, is simply a more PC way of voicing an opinion without sounding so aggressive or pissing people off. ie; a tool of manipulation that women have been (unknowingly) been using all along? I've noticed a lot of companies are doing this as well: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/17222794
Now you're projecting very sinister language onto something that isn't sinister at all. Saying "I feel" is a "tool of manipulation"? Preposterous.
Prefixing statements with "I feel / think" is just a way of showing that there's some leeway in your mindset, that you're open to other views.
This reminds me of a previous blog post of mine: Superlative use and indirect statements.
On December 18 2014 07:52 Onekobold wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 07:39 Alzadar wrote: Well that's the thing, gaming obviously isn't a sexual trait, but it's something men do somewhat more than women. Does that make it masculine? it is in the dna of men to enjoy video games, an evolutionary trait from thousands of years of owning noobs
I can't tell if you think that's what I'm saying, or if you are agreeing with me by jokingly saying the inverse.
|
On December 18 2014 08:41 MarlieChurphy wrote: Right, so why is it that people are being more vague these days? Why were women doing that in the first place? Is there some sort of fear of backlash constantly? Why can't people just say X and be ok with being wrong or right and then possibly change that X to Y later on and word it the same way?
These sorts of social controls feel bad to me, intuitively.
Because if people think you're a dickbag it negatively affects your social status.
Men get away with it more I would say because historically your respect comes from your abilities and valuee and skills. If you are the local michael jordan of the village dudes will like you even if you are a bit of a dick. Also I could suggest that in general men probably care less about peoples feelings and so they will care less if somebody is being a douchebag if they are fun to be around.
|
On December 18 2014 07:07 Onekobold wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 07:02 Grumbels wrote: I've always thought so because it explains why there are more good mtf than cis-female sc2 players, which would otherwise be absurd. I think the reason that there aren't that many women that play video games is because we treat them like shit lol That's certainly not all of it. Ask a 10 year old girl if she wants to play a competitive war game, she won't because it doesn't fit the gender roles she's been taught.
|
On December 18 2014 08:42 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 08:22 MarlieChurphy wrote:Or maybe the use of feel instead of think, is simply a more PC way of voicing an opinion without sounding so aggressive or pissing people off. ie; a tool of manipulation that women have been (unknowingly) been using all along? I've noticed a lot of companies are doing this as well: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/17222794 Now you're projecting very sinister language onto something that isn't sinister at all. Saying "I feel" is a "tool of manipulation"? Preposterous. Prefixing statements with "I feel / think" is just a way of showing that there's some leeway in your mindset, that you're open to other views. This reminds me of a previous blog post of mine: Superlative use and indirect statements.
Your blog actually doesn't back up your point here though, your blog simply says you use words/phrases in place of others for tact so as not to hurt people's feelings or derail the goal of the conversation. Which is kind of what I was getting at. Maybe that is all it is, people seem to understand that concept more these days and have more tact?
|
On December 18 2014 08:45 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 07:07 Onekobold wrote:On December 18 2014 07:02 Grumbels wrote: I've always thought so because it explains why there are more good mtf than cis-female sc2 players, which would otherwise be absurd. I think the reason that there aren't that many women that play video games is because we treat them like shit lol That's certainly not all of it. Ask a 10 year old girl if she wants to play a competitive war game, she won't because it doesn't fit the gender roles she's been taught.
Do you talk with 10 year old girls much? They might surprise you.
|
On December 18 2014 08:45 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 07:07 Onekobold wrote:On December 18 2014 07:02 Grumbels wrote: I've always thought so because it explains why there are more good mtf than cis-female sc2 players, which would otherwise be absurd. I think the reason that there aren't that many women that play video games is because we treat them like shit lol That's certainly not all of it. Ask a 10 year old girl if she wants to play a competitive war game, she won't because it doesn't fit the gender roles she's been taught.
Rephrase this: "Ask a 10 year old girl if she wants to play a competitive war game, she won't because girls aren't as interested in competitive war games in general."
or :"Ask a 10 year old girl if she wants to play a competitive war game, she says yes because she wants to play it"
You can't prove one way or the other, but we have statistics but it's unfair to use them too much yet when we're not that far ahead of women being able to vote and have regular jobs. (and not that far ahead of 95% of professions being a farmer//farmer's wife)
As an aside I would like to suggest that not EVERYONE is going to want their girls to be a princess and their a sports star, and assuming everyone acts like they are just because they are taught seems far-fetched. (indeed doesn't the presence of transgender people suggest that in general gender is something that applies to nearly everyone and not social construct?) Though it once you know your official sex you're likely to want to act like people of your gender that you observe, so you have the thing of kids of single moms with the dad off the scene acting like the gangsters they see on the streets although I'm not sure how much science has been done on that sort of thing. Imitation maybe more than tutelage?
|
On December 18 2014 08:45 MarlieChurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 08:42 Alzadar wrote:On December 18 2014 08:22 MarlieChurphy wrote:Or maybe the use of feel instead of think, is simply a more PC way of voicing an opinion without sounding so aggressive or pissing people off. ie; a tool of manipulation that women have been (unknowingly) been using all along? I've noticed a lot of companies are doing this as well: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/17222794 Now you're projecting very sinister language onto something that isn't sinister at all. Saying "I feel" is a "tool of manipulation"? Preposterous. Prefixing statements with "I feel / think" is just a way of showing that there's some leeway in your mindset, that you're open to other views. This reminds me of a previous blog post of mine: Superlative use and indirect statements. Your blog actually doesn't back up your point here though, your blog simply says you use words/phrases in place of others for tact so as not to hurt people's feelings or derail the goal of the conversation. Which is kind of what I was getting at. Maybe that is all it is, people seem to understand that concept more these days and have more tact?
My point is that it isn't sinister and I don't think it's a gender thing either. It might be true that people are being more tactful, I'm challenging your view that this is a gender-based phenomenon.
|
On December 18 2014 08:45 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 07:07 Onekobold wrote:On December 18 2014 07:02 Grumbels wrote: I've always thought so because it explains why there are more good mtf than cis-female sc2 players, which would otherwise be absurd. I think the reason that there aren't that many women that play video games is because we treat them like shit lol That's certainly not all of it. Ask a 10 year old girl if she wants to play a competitive war game, she won't because it doesn't fit the gender roles she's been taught.
This is offtopic of this blog, but gender roles aren't really taught. At least not in this sense. To most girls, they simply aren't attracted to this kind of play. And of course there are exceptions, in fact my 8 year old nephew, I tried to show him starcraft even since the age of 4, and he wasn't really that interested in it. He does like street fighter, kart racing games, mario games, puzzle games, etc. It's just not something that he's attracted to. I also have a niece who is a few years younger who loves games like angry birds, and other casual gaming stuff, but she doesn't have a system at her house, nor do I think she would want one as bad as my nephew does. (he has DS, N64, Wii, and WiiU) She just plays phone games.
PS- Highly recommend this docu series, it delves into a lot of this stuff. There is a bit in there on the study where they have babies go play in a room with various toys, how parents interact with children differently, etc http://www.reddit.com/r/Loveline/comments/2c4d7t/interesting_docu_series_that_led_to_cutting/
|
On December 18 2014 08:50 MarlieChurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 08:45 Grumbels wrote:On December 18 2014 07:07 Onekobold wrote:On December 18 2014 07:02 Grumbels wrote: I've always thought so because it explains why there are more good mtf than cis-female sc2 players, which would otherwise be absurd. I think the reason that there aren't that many women that play video games is because we treat them like shit lol That's certainly not all of it. Ask a 10 year old girl if she wants to play a competitive war game, she won't because it doesn't fit the gender roles she's been taught. This is offtopic of this blog, but gender roles aren't really taught.
???
Are you saying this then:
On December 18 2014 07:52 Onekobold wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 07:39 Alzadar wrote: Well that's the thing, gaming obviously isn't a sexual trait, but it's something men do somewhat more than women. Does that make it masculine? it is in the dna of men to enjoy video games, an evolutionary trait from thousands of years of owning noobs
|
Watched Part 1 (or most of it). Very relevant bit at 17:00 for others.
I do believe there are innate differences in the brains of men and women. But video games are not so fundamental as that.
|
On December 18 2014 08:52 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 08:50 MarlieChurphy wrote:On December 18 2014 08:45 Grumbels wrote:On December 18 2014 07:07 Onekobold wrote:On December 18 2014 07:02 Grumbels wrote: I've always thought so because it explains why there are more good mtf than cis-female sc2 players, which would otherwise be absurd. I think the reason that there aren't that many women that play video games is because we treat them like shit lol That's certainly not all of it. Ask a 10 year old girl if she wants to play a competitive war game, she won't because it doesn't fit the gender roles she's been taught. This is offtopic of this blog, but gender roles aren't really taught. ??? Are you saying this then: Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 07:52 Onekobold wrote:On December 18 2014 07:39 Alzadar wrote: Well that's the thing, gaming obviously isn't a sexual trait, but it's something men do somewhat more than women. Does that make it masculine? it is in the dna of men to enjoy video games, an evolutionary trait from thousands of years of owning noobs
I mean if you extend video games as a stimulation of refining a skill and competing then that's a passable hypothesis if having said skills was important to evolutionary success. (hunting and such i suppose)
|
|
|
|