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First of all, of course I don't mean you're letting chaos meteors rain from the sky when I'm talking about "inducing chaos".
Inducing chaos for me means you're not being productive, you're distracting town, you're not hunting scum, generally posting stuff that doesn't lead us to find scum.
As I posted in my previous posts, I have found a lot of times where you weren't scumhunting, preventing scumhunting and more. Anyone just read my big 2 posts on Breshke.
On October 11 2014 06:24 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On October 10 2014 21:58 Elvis! wrote:On October 10 2014 21:27 Breshke wrote:
That bolded part is horribly wrong sorry it is ment to say, This makes no sense if he assumed Zen was town to read me scum then why would he have him in his scumlist.
[quoteAlso it's no good assuming that scum do not have a brain to have ideas as to what the setup could be right now, judging by other people's posts so far.]
You said this and it makes no sense to me the only thing they know is if there is a role blocker or not.
I do agree that other people need to talk and ill be going to bed soon and hope to see content from others in the morning. Which leads to them knowing a lot about the setup. If there is a Roleblocker, only 2 scenarios are possible: Mafia Roleblocker Town Cop Town Doctor or 1-shot Bulletproof Townie Mafia Roleblocker Town Jailkeeper So they would know that there cannot be a Tracker. If they know there is no Roleblocker it can only be Town Cop Mafia Goon Vanilla Townie or Mafia Goon Town Doctor Town Tracker So they would know that there cannot be a 1-shot Bulletproof Townie. How does talking about this amount of information not make sense? It's very relevant how the situation would be after roleclaims, and if it might have advantages for the town.
Why do you refuse talking about all kinds of possible scenarios? It's not like there is an obvious answer to them.To repeat: Zen was not 100% scum for me at the time. If someone isn't 100%, which since this is the game of mafia is extremely rare to happen, he must always be available to be seen as townie. You don't want people to tunnel? Allow different perspectives. This is the most interesting thing you have said on the topic: On October 10 2014 20:29 Breshke wrote:
Get out of your tunnel for a second and assume i am town or just take me out of this game completely. Who would be your scum reads? This is exaclty what I did with Zen, getting him outside my tunnel and viewing as a weird, possible town. Now this for you is a reason to call me scum, even though you want people to do EXACTLY that with you. Whaaaaaaaaat? So elvis i can know some stuff for a fact. I know im town and i know Zen was town. that is two of abuses scumreads. How can you have a problem with me saying that? You know why you don't talk about the possible setups? Because it is mafias reactions to these posts that help them find PRs. We arn't even in mylo yet so unless a PR has useful information i don't see any point in talking about them, It is still weird to me that Zen was your second biggest scum read even bigger than loaf who you had made a case on and yet you considered him town trying to use vote logic. The thing is that the vote logic there would have also worked if he was my scum buddy so i still don't see why you would use the world where you assume he is town. I still think it was a slip. Also there are other reasons i am calling you scum. Your entire first post on me was bullshit. two of its main points were the vote on Zen and that i was causing chaos. I then called you out on the vote on Zen and you said that that point wasnt important it was more the causing chaso. I then ask you to show the quotes you promised that show i am causing chaos. What you come back with is sub par andyou never point out exactly where i am misleading town or causing chaos. So once again i will ask you Elvis Where was i causing chaos? Also who do you think my "scum" partner is?FF i find that you are reading Elvis town because he has done the most work worrying. Abuse has done so much more than him and doesn't dodge my questions when I ask him to explain parts of his read.
Well obviously I read Zen bigger scum than loaf, I posted that at this point loaf is just being weird and doesn't seem to have big scum motives.
You made a case on him as well and didn't really explain why you changed your mind so quickly except saying "He's a newbie, too" . Pulling the newbie card is a convenient yet useless excuse to change ones mind.
I don't know who your scum partner is, yet. You at the moment are quite undisputable scum for me, noone else is close at the moment.
talking about "newbie" stuff is not helping anything and inducing chaos.
A big example of you being scummy is talking over and over again about how it's absolutely unthinkable for you to have me think Zen isn't scum.
I posted multiple times that at the time of my posts on the matter I didn't read Zen as surefire scum.
The scenario where he's not scum but you are makes a lot more sense.
You say I should have considered you two being a scum pair.
A scum pair where on of the two makes a push on the other? If properly hidden this would be a really good scum manouver, but terribly difficult to pull off, since either you bus your partner or you have to pull back in a weird fashion, which would be criticized and considered as a scum behaviour.
Then, talking about being unreasonable, chaotic, disruptive, you just go OMGUS on my post against you, only defending yourself against the things you want and "defending" by saying I'm mafia basically.
Then you post a "case" on me that's a couple of lines long, has no quotes whatsoever and only focusses on
1. The Zen-scum-thing, which I explained multiple times and on
2. me not proofing your chaotic behaviour, which I already did a lot, I just didn't call it that way (and apparently you think about the term "chaotic" a lot differently than me - I have no idea what you'd call chaotic, since you just say you're not without reasoning)
3. me generally "being bullshit" and
4. me making a case on you.
This is not at all townie behaviour.
Town would be able to proof their point with quotes and would find usual scum indicators and slips if there are any.
The only thing you think you "found" is the Zen-dilemma. On day 2 a single thing should not make up your whole read and should make you reevaluate if that person is scum.
Then, you desperately try to get everyone to think similair to you and tell them 29034570982745 times they should have a look at your post about me.
This is not a townie move, people will look and consider your case if they think it's legit.
With these kind of posts, your not scumhunting or supporting scumhunting at all.
You post a lot, but almost never find any scummy things, almost never talk about people other people consider scum and defend with a OMGUS post, calling someone mafia for way too less reasoning.
On October 11 2014 06:31 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 06:26 Fecalfeast wrote:
2. I tried to find the post but I couldn't but from last game someone important (blazinghand I think?) said "The two people arguing are probably town, look to the people watching" in more or fewer words.
Shouldn't I then be town?
Not relevant, we're not trying to find a proven townie.
You're basically trying to look townie via a random qoute that could make any idiot discussing a lot "probably town".
The basic message of the quote is alright, but it's a general thing that's not applicable to your case.
Afterwards the posts about loaf getting modkilled. Why don't you look things up before making such a random post that's just plain wrong?
There is no reason to post something you didn't research properly as town. Still you post impulsively on things that are just distracting town from scumhunting.
This is chaotic.
On October 11 2014 08:20 Breshke wrote:
Sorry i thought loaf hadn't spoken during this day phase. I've actually put a lot of effort into this so this phase feels like its gone on forever ignore the modkill shit.
Also about the people watching stuff yeah sure i agree people watching can probably be scum. I also agree people in the thick of it can also probably be scum.
You put a lot of effort into this.
Where can I see this effort? Please answer. I don't see it at all.
The second bolded part: So this basically says nothing, distracts, doesn't add anything to the discussion and is just plain useless.
CHAOTIC.
On October 11 2014 08:23 Breshke wrote:
I don't know fecal as i have said before im not sure which between the four that voted are probably mafia. I don't like how if you take out the lurkier people (superbia rad loaf), you have the least content. It doesn't feel like you were truly reading me as scum when you were calling me scum. That being said I want to see more from rad and superbia before i make my mind up on them.
Useless post, nothing productive, no further read on superbia rad and loaf or fecal.
You adress the "who of the people who voted Zen are mafia" way too often for the amount you actually filterdive these people.
So you are pretty sure one of them or more is scummy, why don't you make a case, why don't you post more info in these people or something like that?
No townie reason to not go on someone and proof one's own point or discard it.
On October 11 2014 14:41 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 14:25 Fecalfeast wrote:On October 11 2014 12:23 Breshke wrote:
FF i would like to hear more from you on different people if that would be okay.
Loaf we don't need vet to claim if we have one unless he is being lynched. The benifits do not out way the information it would give scum. Also have you looked into my case on Elvis at all? What do you think of it?
Also i will be away tonight but i will try wake up an hour or two before end of day but there is a high chance i won't. So if anyone has anything they need to sort out with me i would rather you do it sooner rather than later. I do not have time to just give a read on everyone. I have to take a foodsafe course early in the morning tomorrow. Give me a name and i will filter dive them. Superbia
So you want someone to filter dive someone else, but haven't really done so at all.
Why do you want Superbia in particular?
Why don't you post a detailed opinion on Superbia before demanding something like that? You could have just said "look who you find the most important to dive" or "I think this person is xyz, do you think so too after looking at his filter?".
You never post detailed reads on anyone.
This is what mafia do. They post, they read people mildy, they push midly, they don't proof, they post a lot of stuff that doesn't help to find scum, they post distracting stuff, and post a lot of useless stuff that tries looking non-useless.
I asked you multiple times why you don't do usual town deeds like doing detailed posts.
Detailed posts are what follow up questions and gathering of information. You try to look townie by gathering, but you
never use your information.
You are yet to provide town with more than a couple of small reads and these small reads don't have a lot of information used in them.
You are guessing, you are calling people out, but you're not having substance behind it.
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Everyone else start doing your final posts so we have enough time to talk about them!
I don't want us being in a hurry like last time.
At the moment most people haven't posted a clear opinion and EoD is coming close!
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Elvis are you willing to ride or die with Breshke being scum?
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Canada11355 Posts
If i can't get loaf lynched by doing nothing (turns out most of my lunch is occupied by eating) i will vote breshke. Sorry i am no use for eod, i don't do well waking up in the AM
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Superbia if he's town, he's the most ridiculous town possible. we might as well be playing 6v3 then.
Even though this is a newbie game I don't think someone would be this pointless as town.
It also depends on the others. If someone makes a convincing case that is more convincing than my own one, I might, under extreme circumstances change.
That would need crazy amounts of proof of breshke not being scum and the other person to be more scum. I really highly doubt this is possible to happen at all at this point.
How we learned from Zen, we always have to be ready to reconsider, since 4/8 voted him scum.
I'm sure this will not happen with Breshke.
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On October 12 2014 03:44 Elvis! wrote:
That would need crazy amounts of proof of breshke not being scum and the other person to be more scum. I really highly doubt this is possible to happen at all at this point.
that is an issue, indeed.. :/
On October 12 2014 02:28 Rad wrote:
K I'm back, now it's time to play catch up.
anything you want to share yet?
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I am hating the game right now, because there is tons of proof of breshke being scum, but my gut keeps saying he'll flip town.
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On October 12 2014 03:57 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 03:44 Elvis! wrote:
That would need crazy amounts of proof of breshke not being scum and the other person to be more scum. I really highly doubt this is possible to happen at all at this point.
that is an issue, indeed.. :/ Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 02:28 Rad wrote:
K I'm back, now it's time to play catch up. anything you want to share yet?
I'm on the last page now. Post coming shortly.
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I think Breshke and Rad are still good wagons here. We need to visit loaf tomorrow. Elvis is a decent alternative for either. I'm still not entire sold on FF being town. Abuse is still in the circle.
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On October 12 2014 04:02 abuse wrote:
I am hating the game right now, because there is tons of proof of breshke being scum, but my gut keeps saying he'll flip town.
Who would you look to if he flips town?
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On October 10 2014 18:29 Breshke wrote:
This being said i need you to contribute more loaf because i currently feel like a donkey for having a townread on you because you have contributed almost nothing recently.
Are you satisfied with his contributions since you've made this post?
On October 11 2014 21:12 abuse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 08:06 Rad wrote:On October 11 2014 06:26 Fecalfeast wrote:
2. I tried to find the post but I couldn't but from last game someone important (blazinghand I think?) said "The two people arguing are probably town, look to the people watching" in more or fewer words.
Breshke - do you agree with this statement "The two people arguing are probably town, look to the people watching"? this post and question is utterly useless. Why are you asking this question and why are you asking this to breshke specifically?
It's not at all. If he agrees with it then his response here:
On October 11 2014 06:31 Breshke wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 06:26 Fecalfeast wrote:
2. I tried to find the post but I couldn't but from last game someone important (blazinghand I think?) said "The two people arguing are probably town, look to the people watching" in more or fewer words.
Shouldn't I then be town?
is a blatent double standard with his push on Elvis. The other way to read that is Breshke pushing back on Fecal's statement here:
On October 11 2014 05:41 Fecalfeast wrote:
I think he's doing nothing as well, to be honest. I thought I would get out my thoughts before the day post, in case I got killed. At the end it says "null or I can't think."
I was here for a while and most of that time was dedicated to making a case on breshke. Out of the people who are less active (2-3 page filters) rad, breshke, loaf, and elvis, elvis has done the most work so he is town. Out of the others, I read breshke the most scum based on his entire filter, and loaf less scum. My scum read on you is different than these people. You seem to be poking at me like you did last game, except a lot harder. Almost as if you are thinking the same as breshke, even.
which is also a questionable stance to take right before you throw out some townie advice from some other game that contradicts his own stance.
The question to Breshke was necessary because if I just come out and point that shit out point blank, it's like giving the answer to the question before the question had a chance to play out.
On October 11 2014 14:48 loafery wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 11:23 Rad wrote:On October 11 2014 10:24 Superbia wrote:
Rad, what are you thinking? I'm thinking I'd like to know why he waited an entire day to come back to the thread after this bs about waiting to post until I respond to him: On October 09 2014 09:40 loafery wrote:On October 09 2014 09:27 Rad wrote:On October 09 2014 09:20 loafery wrote:On October 09 2014 03:24 Rad wrote:@The_Zen_Man Your entire case against superbia is based on this idea that he didn't give reasons for why he thinks loaf is town. You try to downplay his efforts by claiming he did nothing of worth until he made a case. This is an extremely easy angle to attack him from and it completely misses the point. The objective for town is to FIND THE SCUM. Scum hunt first and foremost, theorycraft after. How do you think scum hunting works? I'll tell you... by looking for areas of suspicion and following up on them. What have you done the entire game? 1. Piggy backed on other people's ideas.No need for me to go into the whole abuse/loaf aspect, as it's been beaten to death already. Your main argument now though is just copying me from early game: On October 07 2014 11:55 Rad wrote:
@Superbia and @Fecalfeast - why so quick to jump on loafery being town?
On October 09 2014 02:17 The_Zen_Man wrote:
Why did you say loaf was town without giving any explanation as to why? He's already answered that indirectly. It's hard to see if you're not engaged in the thread, and scum are most likely to be disengaged. (I'm reading the thread updates as I write this and I see Super has just pointed this out, even using similar terminology. Whatever, someone will jump on this as me piggy backing on super but it explains why I dropped that pressure on him so... point stands) 2. Constantly explain what town is supposed to do.Seriously, this is the bulk of your posts. See: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOM3. 0 scum huntingThis is the kicker for me. I pointed this out before and urged you to interact more, but it hasn't changed. You still haven't scum hunted, only theorycrafted. Theorycrafting is the easy part, especially in newbie games. Scum hunting is difficult and requires pushing and adjusting to the situation as it changes. You've just sat back and passed judgement while complaining that there's no content and claiming that people who are scum hunting are scummy for it. I was waiting for you to come back into this thread and drive the conversation before making my conclusion. Instead you've made a terrible case and done nothing else. ##Vote: The_Zen_Man you vote zen here, but you're also piggy backing on super's claim so what's difference? Adding in 2 points to the arguement? From what i can see zen pushed on super so he has been scum hunting and apparently on me also before so I don't see that as a valid reason for you to having voted for him and he was town, not a very good town but nonetheless town. Believe it or not, I had already written #1 and as I refreshed to check updates, super had said the same thing. Zen was NOT scum hunting, at all. what is your definition of scum hunting? What would the protocol for scum hunting be for you? I'd like to hear your response before I make further posts. So you've had a day to think about it. WHATCHA THINK? You going to tell us or would you prefer to just sit there looking like a newbie passing judgement. And I'm also wondering why the hell he's still pushing for a vet claim. My brain is going to explode. And finally, I'm wondering why he thinks anyone would be cool with him just disappearing for a whole day only to pop back up with a tiny, useless list of his thoughts and a 2 hour limit in which he'll answer questions or some shit. What a fucking team player that guy is. I don't know how to read him though so /tableflip Back to lanning with friends =/ discreditting me by calling me newbie because i called you out as scum when we're all playing the newbie game is really smart.
I've called you a newbie the whole game so clearly this has nothing to do with your random view of my alignment. At first it looked like cute newbie town not knowing the rules, but by playing the newbie card the entire game and consistently looking clueless, you've become unreadable, and that's scary.
Post coming up of my current thoughts.
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On October 12 2014 04:30 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2014 04:02 abuse wrote:
I am hating the game right now, because there is tons of proof of breshke being scum, but my gut keeps saying he'll flip town.
Who would you look to if he flips town?
I'd look into everyone.
Right now I think Elvis would be the prime candidate in that scenario though.
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Get your votes down people.
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ill wait for Rad's thought post before I vote
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elvis,
what do you think about everyone else except for breshke?
Who do you think is the 2nd scum?
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Elvis and Breshke - From the perspective of looking at each person on their own, I lean towards Breshke being town and Elvis being scum. With that said, the way this day has played out, it feels like a townie debate with others sitting back and ganging up on Breshke because he's harder to understand. I refuse to lynch either of them with how it stands currently.
Super and abuse - leaning a bit town on abuse, a bit scum on super. This post from super has me worried:
On October 12 2014 03:34 Superbia wrote:
Elvis are you willing to ride or die with Breshke being scum?
It's very easy to set Elvis up if Breshke flips town here, and with Elvis's vote ALREADY on Breshke, I can't figure out any good reason to ask this question beyond setting up an easy d3 town lynch.
The pressure super put on fecal seemed great but he just... dropped that shit out of no where. Then this gem here I really don't know how to read beyond scummy as all hell:
On October 11 2014 15:08 Fecalfeast wrote:
super has the biggest filter, the most content and had a super good day 1.
And super AGREES with it? WHAT!
On October 11 2014 23:12 Superbia wrote:Show nested quote +On October 11 2014 23:07 abuse wrote:On October 11 2014 22:18 Superbia wrote:
Abuse confirmed worst player ever. I've demonstrated before that I'm fine with sitting back. I'm not going to "do something" if I'm still iffy myself on who's mafia.
ok. Then start finding scum as you said you would do so many times already instead of just pointing a finger at rad and saying that he is scum. Until you do that, my vote stays here. "Hey start finding scum instead of finding scum". I poured all my energy into a good tunnel D1 and it got us a misslynch. I also haven't caught anyone "slipping" or whatever. My read on Rad envelops pretty much all his posts.
How the hell is any tunnel of a townie a good tunnel? Super can't even admit he was wrong, especially of the LIE case he made against zen at first, which turned out to be utter bullshit after the zen town flip. So the LIE case was a good tunnel eh? Brilliant!
loaf - Scummy as fuck, newbie as fuck, or combination of both. I have no idea. He's a complete wildcard to me and dangerous to town regardless of his alignment.
Fecal - If superbia's scum, fecal's definitely scum. If fecal's scum, superbia's either scum buddy trying to look disconnected from fecal by tunneling him, or fecal was trying to use him because he most openly presents himself as the town leader.
My vote stays on fecal but I'm completely open to a loaf lynch. I'm undecided on superbia because I actually do believe his scum hunting so far has been pretty damn good, but a good scum is also able to scum hunt seemingly well.
@abuse - most of your post was directed at me but you ended with a small paragraph about super and a vote on him. Was this a pressure move or did you have more on him than you were posting?
@Breshke - so was fecal giving you good advice or trying to save his scum partner?
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Just an FYI, I read over that post from FF, didn't really care that much about it. Also the case was pretty good, just ended up being wrong.
Abuse, what are you thinking?
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Rad, I still don't understand what exactly is your deal with Fecal, please explain.
My vote on superbia was both a pressure move and a frustration move because he was not actually "doing" anything, just saying he would do it. His later posts seemed acceptable so I removed my vote.
Also, after seeing all the posts so far, I think am not going to vote for loafery today.
Reason being,
It is extremely likely that breshke and elvis are not on the same team and superbia and rad are not on the same team.
Which makes loafery more likely town than scum in my book currently.
Also dont see myself voting for fecal today.
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30 mins left and I don't know where to go from here.
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if elvis does not show up and post anything about anyone else in the game except breshke though that could be the push I'd be willing to take to make a vote.
especially since he made this post
On October 12 2014 03:31 Elvis! wrote:
Everyone else start doing your final posts so we have enough time to talk about them!
I don't want us being in a hurry like last time.
At the moment most people haven't posted a clear opinion and EoD is coming close!
and then disappeared.
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EPT
