Newbie Mini Mafia LIX - Page 21

On October 09 2014 05:50 Elvis! wrote:
I'm sorry about this short post, but I want it to be able to be discussed before the deadline.
I will insert more quotes that support this asap, but due to real life issues I had less time than I thought I would.

My current read for the most scummy is: Breshke:
##Vote: Breshke
He does post an amount which is not suspiciously low, but moslty in a very short manner each time. Even though he asks some questions, there rarely is follow-up, more analysis or just generally use of that information.
I see this as a subtle way to try to hide being mafia, shallowly you appear non-mafia, since you can see him posting and gathering some information, but I think what he's doing is more to confuse town than to hunt scum. Which is what we're here for.
The only way he "contributes" is with a fishy vote on Zen, which Superbia and the surrounding characters have a decent case on, but Breshke was merely a small time before the vote, defending Zen against accusations.
A townie would adress why, and in detail, one should not only follow a bandwagon, insert personal thoughts about the case and support it.
He simply jumps on something he as a mafia knows is not mafia, is a good scapegoat and has a decent case against the person.
This is the perfect opportunity for him as mafia to strike and hide.
Then there is multiple posts which insert chaos, which according to this analysis (yes abuse I too have read this one - it's really good), is exactly mafia's role.
To sum it up:
How do I think I detected him?
He not only does donkey things like loaf, but things that stop us from scumhunting.
He jumps on a bandwagon that even though it has a decent background, might be close but not quite(read: a lot of people are getting read as scum at the moment, most people vote on Zen because to them he appears a little more scummy than the rest, but not in a crazy substantial way).

my current list:

abuse + superbia go the most into scumhunting. I like how they don't fear to be in the spotlight and get their cases forward(!!!). They share position 1 - would not put them in my town circle quite yet, waiting for cases on more people (which they announced already) to happen.
Rad is not as intense in doing so as they are, but I don't see scum indicators and few town indicators, so he's on position 3 in my townPosition 3 - leans town
FecalFeast for me at the moment is null, I can't really say what his actions indicate the most, will look at him in more detail later when the next big thing happens. He does not seem dangerous or disruptive, so he's not a scum read for me. position 4 - null.
dusts: -- no position --.
loafery for me at the moment is just making a whole bunch of weird actions which might or might not be intended to be disruptive. Since some of his things are more scum-like than town he is Position 5 - leans scum.
Zen for me still is the second worst of them all, but for me I think Breshes disruptive and chaotic actions are more clear. He might be the second scum with breshke, since he isn't as obvious as Breshke for me atm I'll not vote for him. Position 6 - leans into scum like a drunk guy on a fit girl.
Breshke - see above.

On October 09 2014 07:58 loafery wrote:
just a quick post before I start reading. Is it right in assuming the people that defended zen before his flip lean towards town?

On October 09 2014 07:58 loafery wrote:
just a quick post before I start reading. Is it right in assuming the people that defended zen before his flip lean towards town?

On October 07 2014 13:58 abuse wrote:
5) loafery please stop pretending to be a total newbie, and if you are then address such unclarities with either the mods or your coach.

On October 09 2014 08:38 Fecalfeast wrote:


I was calling you scum before but this post is making me reconsider. First, though:

The bolded section, if I'm reading this correctly, is saying that you looked at the game from a third party view and saw yourself and zen as the most scummy so voted for someone else(me)? Why are you looking at the game from another point of view if you are town?
Please let me know if I read that incorrectly.

On October 09 2014 08:17 Rad wrote:


I think this advice is appropriate.

On October 08 2014 10:44 Breshke wrote:
I want to try explain something in defense of Zen but i am not reading him as town he is still null for me at the moment.

So he made his wall post about loaf which was basically just sheeping abuse. In my first game im not sure if you remember I basically just sheeped the entire game when I tried to make posts because i was finding it really hard to make content of my own.



This post here is probably the reason why zen then pretends that he read through the thread better and only just saw abuses post. Zen don't do this, its hardly ever good to lie as town especially about stuff like this. If you saw abuses post and agreed with it say that.

I do agree however that non committal reads are not good because they don't give much information. Care to tell us your thoughts on people in particular superbia and loaf.


##Vote: The_Zen_Man

On October 08 2014 12:46 Rad wrote:


Careless scum caught in a lie or rushed newbie townie?

Well...

Could a newbie town think he needs to contribute but isn't sure how? Yes.
Could a newbie town think that giving his rushed initial impressions is better than not? Yes.

So the question here is - was he caught in a lie?

My answer is... how could we actually be sure? Your case on him could very well be applied to a newbie town who doesn't have a lot of time to contribute (which he claimed was the case).

I've presented my concern for him wanting others to do the work for him, which IMO is quite scummy. I understand your case but don't feel it follows that he was necessarily lying. I'm patiently awaiting some more input from him now that there's a whole lot more content for him to read.



I agree Superbia. So why are you pushing people so hard to vote for him? "Just vote, you can always retract your vote." - what even is this? The pressure play would be you presenting a case and voting for him. What exactly could you accomplish by getting people to artificially vote for him? (psssst he can read this thread too and will know who's voting for him just cause you said so and who's voting for him cause they believe he's mafia)

On October 09 2014 09:08 loafery wrote:


so what do you think? am i lying through my teeth and acting like a newbie or am i just not very good at this game?

On October 09 2014 03:24 Rad wrote:
@The_Zen_Man

Your entire case against superbia is based on this idea that he didn't give reasons for why he thinks loaf is town. You try to downplay his efforts by claiming he did nothing of worth until he made a case. This is an extremely easy angle to attack him from and it completely misses the point.

The objective for town is to FIND THE SCUM. Scum hunt first and foremost, theorycraft after. How do you think scum hunting works? I'll tell you... by looking for areas of suspicion and following up on them.

What have you done the entire game?

1. Piggy backed on other people's ideas.

No need for me to go into the whole abuse/loaf aspect, as it's been beaten to death already. Your main argument now though is just copying me from early game:





He's already answered that indirectly. It's hard to see if you're not engaged in the thread, and scum are most likely to be disengaged.

(I'm reading the thread updates as I write this and I see Super has just pointed this out, even using similar terminology. Whatever, someone will jump on this as me piggy backing on super but it explains why I dropped that pressure on him so... point stands)

2. Constantly explain what town is supposed to do.

Seriously, this is the bulk of your posts. See: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=WIFOM

3. 0 scum hunting

This is the kicker for me. I pointed this out before and urged you to interact more, but it hasn't changed. You still haven't scum hunted, only theorycrafted. Theorycrafting is the easy part, especially in newbie games. Scum hunting is difficult and requires pushing and adjusting to the situation as it changes. You've just sat back and passed judgement while complaining that there's no content and claiming that people who are scum hunting are scummy for it.

I was waiting for you to come back into this thread and drive the conversation before making my conclusion. Instead you've made a terrible case and done nothing else.

##Vote: The_Zen_Man

On October 09 2014 09:17 Rad wrote:


I think you're newbie town who needs to stop playing the newbie card and get some help.

On October 09 2014 05:50 Elvis! wrote:
I'm sorry about this short post, but I want it to be able to be discussed before the deadline.
I will insert more quotes that support this asap, but due to real life issues I had less time than I thought I would.

My current read for the most scummy is: Breshke:
##Vote: Breshke
He does post an amount which is not suspiciously low, but moslty in a very short manner each time. Even though he asks some questions, there rarely is follow-up, more analysis or just generally use of that information.
I see this as a subtle way to try to hide being mafia, shallowly you appear non-mafia, since you can see him posting and gathering some information, but I think what he's doing is more to confuse town than to hunt scum. Which is what we're here for.
The only way he "contributes" is with a fishy vote on Zen, which Superbia and the surrounding characters have a decent case on, but Breshke was merely a small time before the vote, defending Zen against accusations.
A townie would adress why, and in detail, one should not only follow a bandwagon, insert personal thoughts about the case and support it.
He simply jumps on something he as a mafia knows is not mafia, is a good scapegoat and has a decent case against the person.
This is the perfect opportunity for him as mafia to strike and hide.
Then there is multiple posts which insert chaos, which according to this analysis (yes abuse I too have read this one - it's really good), is exactly mafia's role.
To sum it up:
How do I think I detected him?
He not only does donkey things like loaf, but things that stop us from scumhunting.
He jumps on a bandwagon that even though it has a decent background, might be close but not quite(read: a lot of people are getting read as scum at the moment, most people vote on Zen because to them he appears a little more scummy than the rest, but not in a crazy substantial way).

my current list:

abuse + superbia go the most into scumhunting. I like how they don't fear to be in the spotlight and get their cases forward(!!!). They share position 1 - would not put them in my town circle quite yet, waiting for cases on more people (which they announced already) to happen.
Rad is not as intense in doing so as they are, but I don't see scum indicators and few town indicators, so he's on position 3 in my townPosition 3 - leans town
FecalFeast for me at the moment is null, I can't really say what his actions indicate the most, will look at him in more detail later when the next big thing happens. He does not seem dangerous or disruptive, so he's not a scum read for me. position 4 - null.
dusts: -- no position --.
loafery for me at the moment is just making a whole bunch of weird actions which might or might not be intended to be disruptive. Since some of his things are more scum-like than town he is Position 5 - leans scum.
Zen for me still is the second worst of them all, but for me I think Breshes disruptive and chaotic actions are more clear. He might be the second scum with breshke, since he isn't as obvious as Breshke for me atm I'll not vote for him. Position 6 - leans into scum like a drunk guy on a fit girl.
Breshke - see above.

On October 09 2014 08:51 Breshke wrote:


Sorry i didn't explain that very well.

So elvis says "He simply jumps on something he as a mafia knows is not mafia, is a good scapegoat and has a decent case against the person.
This is the perfect opportunity for him as mafia to strike and hide."

So if you look back i vote Zen after superbia prompting me to do so then fairly soon after change my vote to you FF. Let's pretend i'm Elvis thinking Breshke is mafia. He sees this vote and says he thinks its me jumping on voting on a town. So by this logic he thinks Zen is town. Why didn't he try and stop the lynch why didn't he even mention this anywhere else? Wouldn't the better assumption to come to at that point be that me and Zen were partners and i was getting worried about the vote on him going through. In fact im fairly sure this is what your reaction my change of vote was saying i was getting nervous.

I realize this is probably poorly explained so if you have anymore questions about it feel free to ask.

On October 09 2014 09:01 Fecalfeast wrote:
oh I just re-read abuse's post and I get why he got mad at me.

I will sate your bloodlust before it starts and respond to this paragraph I skimmed.

I liked the post because the poster was actually trying and putting effort into his post. I liked the post as evidence of Elvis! being town.

What I didn't like was elvis unvoting just because he didn't think his target was going to get lynched. If you think someone is scum, it shouldn't matter what the rest of town is doing until there is a chance of a no-lynch.

I read rad town even though he doesn't like me too much. He seems to be trying to make use of a busy schedule's limited time. Could be a story, though who knows.

Loaf is null still. Yeah people have made decent arguments about him but I personally don't find things like assuming himself to be confirmed town as scummy as others seem to.

On October 09 2014 09:20 loafery wrote:


you vote zen here, but you're also piggy backing on super's claim so what's difference? Adding in 2 points to the arguement? From what i can see zen pushed on super so he has been scum hunting and apparently on me also before so I don't see that as a valid reason for you to having voted for him and he was town, not a very good town but nonetheless town.