EPTGolden Sun: The Lost Age Mafia Djinn Edition - Page 40
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
| ||
|
geript
10024 Posts
On May 21 2014 11:34 Holyflare wrote: yellow for his contradiction and only talking about rng, regardless of what people said about him in previous games, that contradiction is just too wild and looks like fitting into the flow of the game at the time slam for his too serious to be town attitude, asking me about yellow and saying nothing about it and then going into defensive mode and agreeing with geripts meta probably bkraltlyyl if it's vivax which i'm leaning heavily towards If it's Vivax, I think he could be town. But I'd need to read his filter from Photoshop to double check. | ||
|
Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On May 21 2014 06:52 27ninjabunnies wrote: If I'm avoiding your question, it's because I have a pretty good damn reason as to why. But because you are being persistant, the ones I have my eye on are Steveling, WaveofShadow and Tehpoofter. She takes part in the discussion a lot and actively, aiming to contribute (or look like contributing.) On May 21 2014 07:30 27ninjabunnies wrote: No, questions are good. They get reads. Reads are good. So the questions were not annoying. I was more annoyed by the fact you said I was avoiding what you were asking. I think I had made it clear as to why. But please continue. I want to hear more. Her intention is to try and play as honestly as possible. Which again, is not a bad thing from a town perspective, but if you roll scum and try to play with the least amount of lies possible, it will be hard. The point of interest here is her admitting her annoyance to being called out on her play. She encourages others to share the reasons on hers, yet withholds her own for "reasons", are excused as: On May 21 2014 06:52 27ninjabunnies wrote: But this doesn't necessarily mean they are scum. I rather read more of their play and interactions before I straight out call someone mafia. The majority of these people I haven't played with, and this is my second forum game. If I don't have logic behind my reads, where does that put me? As a freaking town more likely to get mislynched. So hold your horses, let me get my reads, and then we'll talk. While I definitely agree with the logic behind it, her reasoning doesn't seem sincere. It's as if she wants to put content into the thread, but avoid (for now), making any decisions that may come to haunt her play later. Specifically: She doesn't want to be read as scum. Obviously, no town player does, but her play is (even self-admittingly) aimed at not being read as scum. Even if you are read as scum as a townie, it doesn't mean you can't manage to prove your town-ness. Surely, it's an uphill battle, but for someone putting as much effort as her in the game seems unlikely to be _that_ scared of being a misread as a town. Rather, I feel the fear comes from other players correctly reading her as scum. Analysis break: My questions, the reasons behind it, and my conclusions of her replies. On May 21 2014 10:28 27ninjabunnies wrote: Well I assume you are voting me because you are reading me as mafia. So, why are you reading me as mafia? The first exchange. My question here aims at finding the natural level of her thought process. It may not be the best comparison, but think about chess. What I'm aiming to find here is whether she thinks about: 1) The current move 2) The reasons behind the current move 3) The follow-up to the current move Or a multitude of the above. As you can see, she instantly jumps into an assumption that I vote her because I read her as mafia. She doesn't take her thought process further (into different possibilities), into questions such as: "Would he vote for me for a reason other than suspecting me as mafia?" Instead, she takes it for granted that I suspect her to be mafia. It fits well with her wanting to play as honestly as possible, trying not to doubt the claims of others. This I feel is a trait belonging to the person. So here I establish the fact that she doesn't think things ahead. Her thought process is not zero though, but considering the current step with the information given to her comes more naturally. (There are people who naturally start thinking multiple steps ahead.) On May 21 2014 10:46 27ninjabunnies wrote: If you don't consider me as mafia, you shouldn't be voting me. The only reason outside of you considering me as mafia for why you would vote for me is this: you want to get a read on me via my reactions to your voting on me to see if I react poorly or more town favored. This is only used if you don't have a read on me from what I've previously posted. This can also lead to reads from other people if they begin questioning you or agreeing with you. So again, why are you reading me as mafia? Here is my followup. My question is intentionally aimed to hint at a possibility of thinking outside the box. As I came into the conclusion that she doesn't naturally by instinct start thinking things too many steps ahead, I wanted to see the reaction that would come after hinted towards doing such. Her response is quite interesting. She does correctly analyze on scenario, that is, if I didn't have a proper read and wanted to gain more information on her. There are many others she does not think about however. What I'm most interested in, is this crucial miss: She does not at all consider a possibility where I am scum. Ding ding, alarm bells anyone? Note how she points out that if I don't really consider her as mafia, I shouldn't be voting for her. Yet at the end of her post, she asks why I'm reading her as mafia. This means that she thinks (knows?) of me being a town player suspecting her, rather than any other possibility. Why could I not be a scum player trying to start a wagon on her? She doesn't even go through this option at all, even after being hinted to think outside the box. It's as if she knows I'm town. That's not possible unless she's scum. On to my third question: On May 21 2014 11:08 27ninjabunnies wrote: I like how confident you are in yourself. As for reading you as town, that's yet to be determined. If I had a strong scumread on you, yes, I would probably push on you to get you lynched. As for right away, it depends. If I think I can have support, I'll push right away. If I don't think I'll have any support, I'd need t find evidence that can prove or atleast put into speculation that you are mafia. So, your answer? This question was mainly to confirm. I was fairly certain that she does not intentionally downplay her ability to mislead her opponent. Combined with the logical deduction of her naturally not thinking ahead, and with her honest tendency to answer questions, I have no reason to believe she'd be lying about this one either. It would be possible to downplay or not reveal your scumread to try and trap a person into a situation which essentially confirms them as scum to other players, or many shenanigans of the kind. Her response however is strictly related to her own confidence about her read. If she's sure about her read, she'll go for it (no downplaying). If she's unsure, she'll work to be able to trust her read enough to convince others. (Upping her own play.) With this I come into the conclusion that she is not downplaying her abilities when responding to others, or in any questions that she replied to me. This is exactly why I consider the 2nd question where she does NOT EVEN CONSIDER ME AS POSSIBLE SCUM extremely alarming. Also take in consideration how interested in she is in the reasons why I suspect her to be mafia. She doesn't just ignore and wait for me to actually provide something, but she actively asks for it again and again. If not combined with the above, I would see this as a townie trait, but I feel she is trying to get to know her mistakes/flaws in early play so she doesn't make the same mistakes later on. TLDR: 1) Is afraid of being seen as scum 2) Extremely co-operative due to not wanting to be looked upon badly, refer to point 1. 3) Ignores the possibility of the player questioning her being scum. 4) When suspected, wants to know the flaws in her play to not repeat the mistake later Like literally, for one moment she doesn't think I could be scum trying to push her for mislynch. 27ninjabunnies is mafia, and needs to be lynched. My vote stays where it is. Opinions? | ||
|
Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On May 21 2014 11:45 Holyflare wrote: it's not trash talk i'm updating hapa on why i'm voting you because you're doing the exact same things and this game i'm town so really you are playing completely anti win-con this game (which is what you were doing last game too) and until you learn to respect that and actually play mafia then i'll say what i feel like What should I do then? How to be good towny? | ||
|
Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
Her response is quite interesting. She does correctly analyze on scenario, that is, if I didn't have a proper read and wanted to gain more information on her. There are many others she does not think about however. What I'm most interested in, is this crucial miss: She does not at all consider a possibility where I am scum. Ding ding, alarm bells anyone? this is the part of your case where you assume something completely wild and out of the blue cephiro that is so off tangent to the original question that it doesn't make sense and then the rest of your case is entirely based off of this | ||
|
Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
point out things that don't make sense, show it to others, get mafia lynched | ||
|
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On May 21 2014 11:43 27ninjabunnies wrote: See, I don't find tamburini's post all that bad. Sure it was only focused on certain people, one of them including me, but its nt unlikely for him to include me specifically in his reads because we play video mafia together. Some of his reads were pretty good, and I like it questioning, though I completely agree some of it was filler. The problem with his post isn't necessarily that every little bit of info is terrible. The problem is the presentation and scope. Firstly, it's almost designed to be the least efficient/effective way of communicating one's reads/information. When a townie finds someone suspicious, they are generally direct about it "I find <xxx> town, and <yyy> suspicious, for <zzz> reason." However this post is just a clusterfuck. His reads are buried in the middle of irrelevant banter, and hell he changes his mind on reads of the course of his post! The post is not designed to be helpful - it's designed to be massive and showy. Ergo, he's trying to appear like he's contributing without actually contributing. Secondly, the scope of the post is just a mess. He just finds random things in the thread that he doesn't agree with and is really snarky about them. That's a really common mafia tactic - to find a bunch of things to critique/shit-on in the thread. It gives the effect of making one appear to contribute, when in reality, nitpicking several posters is generally easy, creates paranoia, and serves no real constructive purpose to actually finding mafia. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
You're going to pick TWO to answer. Then you answer those two questions and get to ask me TWO questions. Yesssssssssssssssssssssss. (1) What's the BEST post hapa has made and the WORST post? (2) Is there anyone in this game that you've played like...a chunk of games with? Who do you think you know BEST? (3) What are you thoughts on Meapak? Geript, I know it doesn't need saying, but don't shoot marv. No blessings. | ||
|
Tehpoofter
United States2911 Posts
On May 21 2014 11:41 geript wrote: It was the wording you used. Like I don't see how any response he could give would be alignment indicative whatsoever. Usually when there's 1:1 action there's more of a push in a different direction than "Why do you want to lynch obvious town?" Like usually when people step into town on town action they try to convince both sides that the other is town or convince both sides that there's confirmation bias. Anything really. If they think that it's Mafia on Town action the tend to try to get the mafia to explain their points on the subject and on others to force them into a catchable stance or mentality slip. So I find it odd that you're approaching HF like he's town (honestly who knows with him) but aren't really aiming towards Steveling at all. It's a very odd approach. Geript talk to me about BKQ/Venalius/layabout. I don't understand Slam's meta at all (honestly never seen him as scum so don't know the game) I agree his entrance was weird but I always think so. So lets talk about other people and if we can't hash out a better scum target I'll vote him EoD if you still read him as scum and don't want to shoot him for some reason. I think Hapa is town here hes actually been focused on finding scum a rare trait in this thread. His HF thing I agree with HF pushing the policy on Steve makes me roll my eyes cause I was in the game hes talking about and I just see steve getting all mad and stuff and read it as town and wouldn't policy lynch someone I thought was townie. | ||
|
Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
| ||
|
Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
On May 21 2014 11:50 austinmcc wrote: Steveling, i'm gonna ask you THREE question. You're going to pick TWO to answer. Then you answer those two questions and get to ask me TWO questions. Yesssssssssssssssssssssss. (1) What's the BEST post hapa has made and the WORST post? (2) Is there anyone in this game that you've played like...a chunk of games with? Who do you think you know BEST? (3) What are you thoughts on Meapak? Geript, I know it doesn't need saying, but don't shoot marv. No blessings. I will answer all of them because I'm town. Give me a minute. | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
| ||
|
Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
| ||
|
Cephiro
Finland1934 Posts
On May 21 2014 11:50 Holyflare wrote: this is the part of your case where you assume something completely wild and out of the blue cephiro that is so off tangent to the original question that it doesn't make sense and then the rest of your case is entirely based off of this How is not considering the possibility of someone voting on you being scum completely wild? She literally ignores the possibility of me being scum voting on her, as proved by her own thought process. They were my first posts in the game and I instantly pressured/attacked her. And she didn't even think of the possibility of me being scum. Like literally, all her responses screamed that I was town to her. There is no way she could be that sure I am town by just exchanging a post or two with her by that stage. Care to elaborate on your reasoning why it's a completely wild assumption and debunks the whole case? | ||
|
thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
| ||
|
Yell0w
120 Posts
On May 21 2014 11:55 Cephiro wrote: How is not considering the possibility of someone voting on you being scum completely wild? She literally ignores the possibility of me being scum voting on her, as proved by her own thought process. They were my first posts in the game and I instantly pressured/attacked her. And she didn't even think of the possibility of me being scum. Like literally, all her responses screamed that I was town to her. There is no way she could be that sure I am town by just exchanging a post or two with her by that stage. Care to elaborate on your reasoning why it's a completely wild assumption and debunks the whole case? The problem is there are multiple scum factions, you could both be scum and not know it. | ||
|
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On May 21 2014 11:56 Yell0w wrote: The problem is there are multiple scum factions, you could both be scum and not know it. How do you know that? The OP makes it clear that there are 4 factions other than town, and doesn't say anything about what those factions are. Hm. | ||
|
Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On May 21 2014 11:55 Cephiro wrote: How is not considering the possibility of someone voting on you being scum completely wild? She literally ignores the possibility of me being scum voting on her, as proved by her own thought process. They were my first posts in the game and I instantly pressured/attacked her. And she didn't even think of the possibility of me being scum. Like literally, all her responses screamed that I was town to her. There is no way she could be that sure I am town by just exchanging a post or two with her by that stage. Care to elaborate on your reasoning why it's a completely wild assumption and debunks the whole case? you came to the thread completely out of the blue and voted her, showed no intention of voting her and asked her dubious questions that revealed nothing of where they were going the only real assumption that one would make in that scenario is that you were trying to get information out of her by doing that, why would anyone assume what you were doing was a mafia pushing a mislynch or a mafia doing anything? that's so out of the blue If I didn't consider you as mafia, why would I be voting for you? this implies that you wanted her to answer in a way that explained your actions of questioning, not the agenda behind the overall play | ||
|
austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On May 21 2014 11:56 Yell0w wrote: Do you think that multiple scum factions makes cephiro's post thought here invalid?The problem is there are multiple scum factions, you could both be scum and not know it. | ||
|
Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I'll comment on your case in a bit - I want to see what other people think of it first. | ||
| ||
