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On January 11 2014 02:48 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Can you show me what parts of my posts are fluff? My big post was purely directed to Derrida because he obviously was doing something dumb. And no, there is no way he is mafia, you can take my word for it. The entirety of page 1 of your filter.
And at least this post, which was your first real post.On January 10 2014 16:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:Why i think GGTeMpLaR is mafia:These posts: Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 04:46 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Holyflare is my scumtell right now because he presumes to act like a confirmed town without having actually made any contributions to town himself. He just keeps asking for others to find clues for him.
Not to mention his first post lead to the great scoobydoo spam of 2014. His trolly attitude came off as relaxed and confident townie on the surface, but the intentions and consequences were ultimately anti-town in my eyes. Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 05:02 GGTeMpLaR wrote:The consequences are the 2 pages of scoobydoo roleplaying and off-shoot trolling that resulted from the silly atmosphere which just reads null all-round to me. The intentions were to produce this amount of fluff that we have to sift through to get reads + the added effect that he initially comes off as a relaxed/confident townie despite not having presented any unique game-related content. + Show Spoiler + First of all, he is accusing Holyflare of promoting shitting up the thread. This is a completely inaccurate accusation. Holyflare's intentions are still unclear, so him doing what he did is a null-tell.
Second, nobody is forced to play along with Holyflare's Scooby-doo game if they do not want to. But GGTeMpLaR himself enters the van. He is himself promoting the "shitting up the thread" that Holyflare can't possibly stop because Holyflare is not responsible for other people's actions.- GGTeMpLaR calls Holyflare scummy for shitting up the thread -> but the joins the shitting up the thread instead of stopping him.
- GGTeMpLaR says Holyflare is responsible for shitting up the thread when nobody is forced to play the game. If someone is responsible for shitting up the thread it's all the people who +1 Holyflare's game, not Holyflare.- Both of above are incorrect logic and looks like GGTeMpLaR is just trying to find an easy target rather than find people's motives behind their actions. In bold, you make two points. No intervening text, and then in italics, you make the same exact two points again.
On January 11 2014 03:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:Giggletummy i find it funny you say this: Show nested quote +I personally find all the extra fluff to be anti-town. It adds pages, provides things to do for people that aren't scumhunting (even if you are using it for a purpose), and it fluffs your filter up. Take a look at your own filter at the start of the game. Do you want to stand behind this statement? 100%
Ask me if every statement I've ever made in this game is pro-town.
Your other suspicions of players aren't as fluffy as this, but filling out your reads with repetitive comments is a nice way to make it look like your filter is more productive than it is.
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17/31 of your posts say absolutely nothing and are pure trolling.
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My ratio is something like 17/65.
Which is better?
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On January 11 2014 03:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Also where has Holyflre done pre-flip association reads?
Could you show me those? On January 10 2014 17:52 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 17:39 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I didn't read his opening post as town at all. This is actually my second forum game too but you didn't see me trying to use that to gain favor in my intro post, I actually started trying to find scum. I still think Derrida is likely scum until he responds to my concerns or provides something that reads more town to me.
I really don't like my arguments being misrepresented by either you or HolyFlare, but I still think the way HolyFlare reacted to my pressure read more townie than the way a mafia might react.
I will say that I think HolyFlare's logic for why he is confirmed town for getting to L-1 is circumstantial evidence in my opinion. Three people scumread him and three people had nothing to say about him. I don't think that in-of-itself reads anything but null. There is nothing circumstantial whatsoever. My alignment is confirmed to myself (and others if they read the game(s)) and so I can remove myself from the equation. There is not a chance in sweet sweet hell that a bus occurs that fast into the day based on the same evidence appearing from every person on that wagon with such little filter from a person. No credit would be gained and they lose a potential ally. So either he is scum in which case rayn or giggletummy are mafia (something that doesn't seem that likely so far) or he is town (which is much much more probable) and by process of elimination at least 1 mafia are in the group of Templar, Artanis and Mocsta. Not full association, but assuming there's no early bus and saying if Derrida is mafia then rayn or I are mafia, or if he is town then Templar/Artanis/Mocsta is mafia. Association based on votes, which is more concrete but is still drawing conclusions on assumptions and also setting out big, unhelpful groups of people.
On January 10 2014 18:28 Holyflare wrote:IML is instant majority lynch (which this game is). When a person reaches a majority that person is INSTANTLY LYNCHED. Thus it is extremely dangerous to leave your votes on people if you do not have full information on them yet. Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 18:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Holyflare who's Giggletummy's scumbuddy?
Mocsta soft-bussing? Seems good to you? Mocsta seems very buddy buddy with giggle, weirdly so. A lot of people were around (yes a lot of it was scooby related at the time) but he took his time out from trolling to only address Giggle posts. I like to think Mocsta has a longing crush on giggle too, evidence can be found: Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 09:56 Mocsta wrote:
But you aren't the medic.
*goes off to cry in a corner*
@Giggly/WoS
Where'd ya go? He only addresses people that he knows (me and artanis etc) with heuristics from voice games (yes, elements of trolling etc etc) but doesn't attempt to involve us in discussion either in favour of discussion with giggle (who I've just proven to be... not so towny looking). I don't like mocsta's vote either (was it L-1 or L-2??) he gets frustrated in voice games when people start voting so fast and he should know not to do it in a forum game without discussion especially as there is ample time to discuss. His case was also very lackluster. This is, to a decent extent, drawing an association between you and I.
On January 10 2014 18:32 Holyflare wrote:
I can see a team of Giggle/Mocsta/Templar (obviously eliminating one) although judged on exp of mafia games (I don't think i've seen templar play?) he looks more tunelled than anything else and also seems confused about the implications of the setup whereas Mocsta definitely knows better. At an early stage such as now a Giggle/Mocsta team is looking mighty plausible. Again, mocsta and I are mafia, and it seems that a decent proportion of his suspicion is because mocsta responds to my posts.
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On January 11 2014 03:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
My ratio is something like 17/65.
Which is better?
It's not the size of the ratio rayn, it's how you use it. You should know that <_<
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Well my associations are that 2 of you/Mocsta/Artanis are scum because other people are town.
dealwithit.
none of you three is making better posts than two other and you all fail to give your reads on the other two.
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On January 11 2014 03:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well my associations are that 2 of you/Mocsta/Artanis are scum because other people are town.
dealwithit.
none of you three is making better posts than two other and you all fail to give your reads on the other two. ![[image loading]](http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/243/561/afc.gif)
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Why are you misconstruing everything I say as association? I found what you were doing early game (posting multiple questions and free town reads while trolling even though you disliked fluff) to be something that I see as not towny. Mocsta's posts are just plain scummy. There is no association at all. If he buddies you it could be because you are town or mafia, I did not draw any conclusions from that at all as the basis of my reads are from your individual play.
The fact you are bringing this up and investing so much of your time into discrediting me rather than scum hunting is cute though. Derrida is clearly a worse candidate for association cases but there really isn't much mention of him at all from you recently. Derrida almost got lynched today but you haven't been asking him questions or addressing that situation at all.
Do you not want to solve the game?
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The game is already solved. We just need to convince cora to let us see the solution.
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Holyflare who uses the " <_< " smiley? I know i have seen it recently but can't remember who it is.
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On January 11 2014 03:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Holyflare who uses the " <_< " smiley? I know i have seen it recently but can't remember who it is. Me. It's the official national smiley of Pitcairn.
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So Giggletummy doesn't really call anyone scum, just points out some stuff.
Interesting.
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Let's see your vote Giggletummy.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On January 11 2014 02:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Derrida is not obviously town
Any town who says so is a clown
My suspects I have told
On Giggletummy and Mocsta I am not sold
Your posts contain unnaturally high amounts of fluff
For you to be town, it is tough
Interest in continuing this conduct, I am not
You are scum, you have been caught.
Why have you imposed a self restricting posting style which adds nothing to helping us determine what you are? Talking in verse is obviously not helpful to us and you are accusing rayn who is arguably doing the most at the moment. Why are you not discussing anything else with anyone? You're playing your own game of "J'accuse!" but not actually participating in a game of mafia.
Please explain to me your distaste of both Giggletummy and Mocsta.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
Rayn has 4 pages of filter and the majority of it is not spam. He imposes a "pretty dragon" rule (WHERE WAS MY CREDIT FOR THIS YOU BITCH) to try and force people to give a read on someone when the counter reaches 5. That is PRO TOWN becuase it forces people to actually participate in the god damn game, which seemingly at the moment nobody is keen to do.
On January 11 2014 03:36 Giggletummy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2014 03:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Well my associations are that 2 of you/Mocsta/Artanis are scum because other people are town.
dealwithit.
none of you three is making better posts than two other and you all fail to give your reads on the other two.
On January 11 2014 03:39 Giggletummy wrote:
The game is already solved. We just need to convince cora to let us see the solution.
Next, rayn follows a thought process of "eliminate town people and find scum", this is when his next dragon enters the field (the speak about 3 random reads thing), he eliminated town reads down to his 3 scum reads and tried to make them talk about each other to further narrow down the suspects. Yet, surprisingly, those 3 provide VERY VERY lackluster responses about the other 2.
Mocsta's reply:
On January 10 2014 19:33 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 19:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You can still talk about WoS and Scraptanis no? Yeah I could, but there is no point having active fronts open with 3/4 of the game. FYI, I have already engaged in dialogue with WoS/GigglyTummy and am waiting a response. /BBL
(already seen giggletummy pretty much ignore it too)
artanis' reply:
On January 11 2014 01:30 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2014 01:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So are you going to give your reads on Giggletummy *lays down* *lays down* *wags tail*
all 3 of these people provide the shittest responses anyone could ever imagine to rayn trying to solve the game, artanis even goes so far as to ACCUSE rayn of doing nothing???? When nobody wants to participate in fucking finding scum of course it limits our options. Yet, not, his vote is on the person who is displaying towny thought processes and is playing the game rather than elaborate on Mocsta/Giggletummy.
Scum is definitely within these 3.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On January 11 2014 06:19 Derrida wrote:
##unvote
Please explain?
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It's weirding me out how sure Rayn/HolyFlare are so convinced of each other, but I liked them both a lot more after they reasoned out their arguments against me around Derrida so I'm just going to go with them for now until suspicion leads me to think otherwise because the unlikely alternative is they're playing the best mafia team game in the history of ever. I don't think one town/one mafia is extremely likely based on how sure they are of each other's alignments.
I read Derrida's new posts as scummy because it seems like he's intentionally tunneling on HolyFlare because Holy/Rayn both said "GGTeMpLaR wouldn't tunnel so hard on Derrida if he were town" so he's trying to emulate a behavior by one player that read as town to other players.
On January 10 2014 21:06 Derrida wrote:
Please share the alignments you have figured out so far with the help of your scheme.
I'll grant him that this is true because all of the alignments HolyFlare have pointed out are based on things that are from the actual game and have nothing to do with scooby doo, despite his insistence that scooby doo game is solving the game.
It does feel a little bit like he's sheeping the argument I already had against the scooby doo game though, but he brought up a lot of points that (even if I don't really agree with them) are unique. I'm less confident in my scumread on Derrida today, but I still think he's scummy.
On January 10 2014 22:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Look i try to explain. Holyflare's mini game is not a scum tell. You guys are calling it a scum tell because it distracts the thread while in fact it has promoted the most useful discussion there is. It started the scumhunting discussion. I don't know what thread you are reading if that's not your conclusion.
This specific part of the post is wrong. Me going hard on Holy, then Derrida is what started the scumhunting discussion and forced people to start expressing their thoughts on the matter.
On January 11 2014 02:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Derrida is quote obviously town and you and Mocsta should see it.
So yeah, process of elimination and your unwillingness to help the town or interact with people.
I disagree.
Also, if you think there are 2/3 scum between Artanis/Mocsta/Giggle and Artanis confidently and fearlessly continues his troll and gives null reads on both of them, do you honestly think he's scum with one of them and doing that? It would be an extremely bold play for a mafia to make in that situation and I still think he's right to not clear Derrida as town as you and HolyFlare have.
On January 11 2014 03:16 Giggletummy wrote:@ggtemplar Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 17:12 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
First, I made an educated guess about his intentions when I scumread him. Under the assumption that HolyFlare is scum, I think my guess about his intentions made perfect sense. This is a poor way to scumhunt, and is going to lead you down a lot of wrong paths. You can assume anyone is scum and find reasons that their actions are then scummy. If you're mafia, it's how you make decent-sounding scum reads. If you're town, it's how you tunnel, often incorrectly. It's not at all a good way to get scumreads, because if you're town you're doing exactly what mafia would like to be doing, and you're starting with someone being scum and then finding actions, rather than using actions to find someone scummy in the first place. Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 17:12 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
Second, I pointed out before I don't care if people are going to troll as long as they are going to give concrete reads and play the game as well (hence why I actually approved of Artanis even though he was acting like a dog - he gave a solid scumread that lined up with my thoughts and quoted the same post I had issue with, even going so far as bolding the significant portion of the quote). Artanis's initial scumread is this: Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 05:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On January 10 2014 05:09 Derrida wrote:
^ Agreed, I am disliking this amount of fluff. We need to get back to reads. What do you guys think about Artanis playing along with the Scooby Doo scheme? *barks aggressively* to which you responded Show nested quote +On January 10 2014 05:18 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
I like Artanis because I think he just sniffed out the second scum.
I'll be back in a few hours. Are you saying that you considered artanis's initial barking a concrete/solid scumread? Are you saying you presented your thoughts on derrida? Or does the bolded bit of your later quote only apply to later posts? Would like to see you back this bit up.
I wasn't necessarily using that method to scumhunt. I was responding to HolyFlare that using his own logic from my perspective, a different conclusion is reached because the alignment of non-voters vs voters is proportioned differently from someone who was voting vs someone who wasn't.
It's really scummy of you to completely ignore/forget the context in which I said I made that assumption. Rayne had said that "Holyflare's intentions are still unclear, so him doing what he did is a null-tell." which is a fairly obvious thing to state but I was explicitly asked what I thought HolyFlare's (I think it might have even been by you who asked this of me) intentions were and given that I already initially scumread HolyFlare, I would work from my read to guess what his intentions are.
I gave explicit reasons why I thought Derrida was scum that had nothing to do with making an assumption. This is the post where I gave my reasons - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=440222¤tpage=7#140
I assumed the post fairly obviously looked scummy so when Artanis bark'd at the same post in question I had a lot of issues with, I took it to mean that we were thinking along the same line of reasoning regarding why Derrida was initially scummy. Perhaps I was wrong to assume so as his newer reasons for scumreading Derrida are different than mine, but I think we were on the same page regarding the initial scumread.
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To sum up my reads, I think Derrida is scum.
I'm currently trusting Holy/Rayn/Artanis as town.
That leaves between Giggle who is slightly scummy and Mocsta who is basically lurking for the last scum. It's really risky for Mocsta to have voted on Derrida though in L-1 so it's more likely to be Giggle with Derrida (which makes sense that he defended him as well).
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And by defended I mean saved him without ever actually having to give reads on why he thought he was town + he didn't address or take a stance on Derrida's new posts at all despite being the one who asked for us to unvote so he could respond.
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EPT
