! [G] Blood Bath Tips,Tricks, and Strategies

CharlieMurphy

United States22895 Posts

July 31 2007 07:52 GMT

edit- First of all let me show you these threads that I have bookmarked.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?&topic_id=43760
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?&topic_id=27775
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?&topic_id=27455
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=57249
check my blog I am Blood Bath & Painter (banned). There is a few others in those threads that know what they are talking about, but most are like everyone in this thread and have no clue what they are talking about. If you skim through those threads you can find a few nice pictures on base setups and such. OG Bloodbath for anyone who cares here is a nice tight Terran base.

+ Show Spoiler +

There is marine hiding behind the geyser ^_- and in the minerals with scv is good bunker substitute for all the bases. I think that turret helps gas collection.

Turret+depot optimizes gas collection.

Turret and Academy optimizes gas collection and mineral collection, because the minerals are badly placed and the SCVs make a weird return.

This is probably the best position for T

Firstly T is slightly advantageous on bloodbath but its not totally imba. Its like maybe 56% vs 44% at most or something like that.

Tanks are NOT auto win. In fact by the time you have enough tanks to start a push the toss usually has another base going up and they have map control and can flood middle from 3 directions. You actually have to start your push half way in your base sometimes to prevent the toss from smashing you while you setup or even countering afterwords. I've actually played a lot of long games where it comes down to carriers vs gollies and turrets.

The middle is unbuildable so it makes it hard for Terran to defend from shuttles and obs. not to mention its small and psi storm is more effective. Early shuttle and obs usually just after they start their expo is enough to delay push. its that powerful. The most imbalance comes from position. If T spawns bottom right and P is bottom left you can tank their bridge from your base. Which is pretty annoying to say the least.

Download Map & Picture:

This is the most balanced version of bloodbath- 1.37, complete with Terran Rax-Depot-Depot wall-ins at every spot. http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=3527

Walls:

OG Blood Bath Sucky walls:
+ Show Spoiler +

NEW IMPROVED WALLS:
If any of you don't know how to wall on BB I put plating on the floor to give a semi blueprint. and here are the screen shots if you're still confused.

+ Show Spoiler +

**
The mini-map in the screen shots does NOT represent this version of the map.

This version has the minerals more balanced out and the geysers are all on either the left or right for equal harassment opportunities at all bases. I am aware about the 4 on the right 3 on left gas issue but there is really no way to make it even without sacrificing compact base defense styles and space in general. So just deal with it.

As far as basic strat options here is what I use.

First of all let me mention some abnormal scouting strategies I have discovered.
scout on 8 or 9 usually.
A)
You can leave your worker in the middle and wait to see his come out and just go to his base right away (if you scout early).
B)
Scout diagnol, this accomplishes a few things. 1 if hes there you see his base, 2 his worker comes in from side X while yours comes out and you know hes from that spot since you are in the next one over (get it?), 3 hes zerg and you will always know where he is on first or second scout because you will either see his lord, or see his base. If not you will see his lord come into your base, and you will know where he is (unless he doesn't scout with lord which is stupid/sucks). And 4, If hes a shitty hacker he may accuse you of 'coming straight to his base' the only way he can know this is if he himself hacks.
C)
Zerg can send lord to middle and leave it there and wait for scout worker to come out. I use this sometimes to counter the diagnol scout but it doesn't always work and I'd just rather scout properly with lord to see tech.
==================================Protoss===============================
(All 8 pylon builds)
PvT - 9/12 gate depending on what T does (tech or mnm) I may add 1 or more gates than he has barracks if tech I will harass as much as possible (without losing zeals[very important]) while teching to goons and range. Vs MnM is really tough you have to have excellent micro and good timing as well as go for zeal legs asap while pumping zeals and u have a few goons. Usually just wait outside their base until they try and run out (with a huge force usually) and run into an empty base and waste time running around. until you have what you need. Its tough to explain but thats what I do and it usually works. Storm and Goons+range are other good variations to go for.

PvP - 10/12 gate usually harass and mass zeal fest back and forth can get up to 4-5 even 6 gate zeals with probes and shit. any tech build will usually get crushed by the mass zeal builds. the next tech can be mass goons with range which is good, but a better transition from the initial build (because of limited gas) is a few archons and storm with attack ups and forge/canons obv. Maybe some DT for map control/scouting. the problem with goon builds is they need obs and its just gas heavy in general. You only need a few HT or DT to control the middle.

PvZ - 9/10gate
1)If zerg is 4-5pooling, it is best to cancel gate and build a battery and another pylon. Also send 2-3 probes asap to harass his workers (scout diagnol on 8 btw). When zeal pops the lings will be arriving if not already there grab 3-4 probes and the zeal and micro and heal etc.
2) Versus a regular 9pool build, 9/12 gate is fine. Zerg harassment early is the main game just keep your zeals alive use micro with probes and zeals keep your base compact and at every opportunity try and repel the zerg FULLY out of your base and wall bridge with zeals probes asap and get canons up there.

The hardest part about PvZ imo is the scouting problem. Zerg has major map control and tech options at this point. You have to decipher if he is going mass ling/hydra 3(or more hatch) build otherwise known as 'vanilla build', Fast lurker tech, expansion, or even mutas (which is a crappy tech imo). One trick I use is put 2 probes on either side of your base wall you have walled your front. Click the minerals across the space so they slide through shit. Hopefully the zerg can't get both. Normally a toss can use a sair to scout but on this map its almost auto loss to tech gate and make sairs, especially just to see tech.
In the case of mass lings and/or hydras you will want to quickly get 2-3 canons mass zeals and +1 attack as well as legs.
In the case of fast lurkers you will want to get obs and goon/range asap. Storm helps a lot obviously but you can get by with the mass units.
In the case of mutas a few canons and goons/range is usually enough to keep defended but you will need to get storm/archons in order to mount an offensive.
=================================Zerg==================================
~~I will finish the rest of these later, Flag wants to play me ^^~~

ZvT - 9pool/9extractor/9lord get 200 gas for burrow/speed then back to minerals. Harass a lot burrow around his base so he has trouble placing depots and shit. Pick off as many things as you can including buildings. I think its safe to say that trading lings and marine is good 2:1 unlike toss where 2 rines is not a good trade for your zealot.
You can either continue harassment and 3 hatch mass lings and crush him, the vanilla style of ling/hydra with armor upgrade or something, or stop at 2nd hatch and get lurkers and take it from there. Mutas is really very situational, I mean you can really only use it if terran doesn't make MnM and goes metal since you only have 1 geyser.
Another very simple build is 9pool with initial harrass (no speedlings) and don't let your lings die. Keep him occupied while fast 1 hatch teching to lurkers. You may need some sunkens as well, I don't use it that much but it has been used and works against me.

ZvZ - + Show Spoiler [Old thoughts] +

I haven't played enough of these recently (since I stopped playing for a long while) but I used to just do any regular zerg builds from 128x128 maps. Typical 9 or 12 pool builds with ling standoffs to muta/scourge battles with 1 base the entire game. But recently I played a very good zerg player who was doing some kind of hydralisk build and it was raping me, I don't know if it was because of my lack of micro or bad timing/choices but it seemed to be pretty effective.

The build I have been using recently is this: 9 overlord, if first lord hasn't scouted zerg yet- send 8 or 9th drone out, scout for the ooze to save time. If you see an early pool and/or low drone count cancel the lord and make a pool. I think it takes about 300~ HP of a morphing pool for lings to hatch, so consider that when deciding if you need a sunken. If you do need a sunken, make it on 500 HP of morphing pool so that it finishes just before your pool does. Defend his rush, and then use your drone advantage to make another hatch sooner and continue massing lings, get extractor and speed as they are allowed by leftover mins. If you have been just massing lings and lords off your 2 hatches. At about 50-70% of the speed upgrade, you should have about 2-3 groups of lings, and you can begin to move out. Hopefully by the time you are positioned your speed kicks in and you just wrap his whole base. If he is teching with sunkens you should be able to kill enough drones to cripple him. If he got mutas out during this timing attack, you should still have enough time to make evo chamber and 2 spores to protect yourself.

If he doesn't rush, continue your 9lord build and make a pool accordingly, if he made a 9pool, do an overpool, if he made and overpool make a 12pool. The ultimate goal is to have the better econ in the start to get your 2nd hatch and larva advantage and outling him. It works especially well versus 9pool speed builds because their speedlings can't even penetrate your bridge, which completely nullifies his speed/map control. You can move out when your speed kicks in later and he is way behind at that point.

Versus the same build, I haven't had much experience yet but basically I think it boils down to getting a 3rd hatch and massing even more lings and getting lair/spire with extra minerals in the same way that you did with the speed upgrade.

ZvP - 9pool/9ex/9lord mass 100 gas for speed then back to minerals. Mass lings nonstop and build hatches with excess. I usually use the 3 hatch 'vanilla zerg'. Only time to build drones is to replace for the hatch you built, or when you have your 3rd hatch done and you have somewhat map control I usually make a volley of drones(4-9, situational). But often I see I need more tech and use 2 hatch lurker, or even mutas (but generally its hard to use mutas on bb due to lack of gas). If you can get lurkers setup in the middle with ling/hydra support and scourges to pop the obs you can pretty much lockdown any toss.

PS- 4&5 pool is always viable, although most decent players will be able to stop it. It can still be very good at crippling an opponent or controlling the flow of the game.

===============================Terran==================================
Terran has so many options on bloodbath, this is one of the reasons why this map is in their favor. They can always try to do some kind of SCV rush early on and still recover while totally screwing up the early game build strats; for example.

TvP -
1) 9depot/10rax/10depot (wall) at bridge. If toss gets in the base before wall is up though, take your gas before he manner-gas you. Then that opens up another problem though. Toss can build pylons or whatever and try and screw up your wall. Its annoying and you have to pull half your SCV to stop him and keep probes away (this often relies on base scouting luck). Make a marine or two and then a factory asap (you could even try to harass with a rine and kill a probe if your lucky). Keep an scv running around the map as long as possible you need to know what to build early on (if hes gonna try and break your wall, or tech goons, etc.) Make more rines whenever cash allows (usually i get 3-4). If he makes a lot of zeals get a vult or 2 before tank, otherwise get tank first. I usually have to keep 2-3 SCV around the wall to repair. If toss anticipates the tech build they often 1 gate goon asap. Often times I will build a bunker behind the wall to extend marine range before and buy a little time for tanks.
I usually try and get vulture upgrades first (because obs are usually slower) but sometimes you MUST get siege mode first. Also if you suspect DT or drop tech make your ebay on the closest side to his base and float it over for scouting purposes (you will either see a lot of goons to kill it or very few which implies tech) and build a few turrets in key spots.
2) I'm not too sure on the details of this build because I don't prefer it but it is very viable. 9rax/10depot/11rax/11bunker (near CC) proceed with typical MnM build. 3rd rax around 15-18 supply (i'm not positive). Make sure you keep you base scouted so he doesn't surprise you with proxy canons/batteries (you must counter this asap with Marines/SCV and micro). Get medics and stim/range tech, turrets and scan as well. Then switch to metal (vults/mines first even) if he doesn't die at this point. Also watch for out for storm.
3) This is the older method I used for typical TvP before I discovered how to wall (previously thought you couldn't except top left). 9rax/10depot/11bunker(nearCC) Very few marines 4 in bunker and like 2-3 in minerals for microing. You want a nice compact base put as much shit around the bunker as possible to prevent zealots from harassing easily (and especially picking off building SCVs). Get your factory up asap (somewhere between 15-18 supply). Get tanks and siege mode asap as well. You will want to siege the tank(s) just behind the CC or bunker until you can work up enough force to take your entrance with a bunker. Remember to keep scouting with SCV too, so you can decide if you need turrets and/or scan faster. (the ebay floated over a turret trick as saved my ass dozens of times versus a late discoverd dt rush)
4)There is even a variation to the MnM build that instead of making a CC-bunk you take 2-3 SCV and rally your first marines to their base and make the bunker near his gates. It forces toss to pull probes and micro vs scv/marines until he has more zealots. Even if the bunker does not get built the zealots/probes will be weakened or dead, his economy is weakened slightly and you can retreat safely. By the time the Protoss is on the offensive you will have enough marines stocked up in your compact base to skip making a defensive bunker.

There is even an old 'vanilla build' that works quite well. Mass marines and tanks with bunkers+range(turrets,scan,and stim if needed as well.)

TvZ - 8rax/10depot/11bunk(nearCC) Yes, this build DOES stop a 4-5pool as well as any other early pool build. Your first marine will come out and the bunker will finish at like the exact time the lings show up (proceed to micro/repair with SCV). If they don't choose a rush build you may even sub out the 11 bunk with another Barracks and make the bunk a bit later. Proceed with typical MnM build, try and scout as much as possible to see if fast lurkers or expansion is teching. When you have about 6-9 marines take about 3-4 SCV and the marines and go to your bridge and build a bunker keep the scv there at least until the bunker finishes. I will usually make my ebay near the entrance as well just to narrow the opening a bit and get +1 attack up. Once you have typical MnM force (10 rines 2 meds 2bats) move out (but be weary of burrowlings or 3 sided middle flooding pincer attack of lings and/or lurkers.) You want to attack if possible but at the least keep the lurkers back and delay as much as possible until tanks/vessel come. Use your minimap eyes and be ready to stim, scan, and target anything that comes into the middle. When the Zerg pushes you back to your base you should be getting range soon so the bunker/turret can hit lurkers safely or tanks and scan. Once you have tanks (you don't even need siege btw) you can press into the middle and take a base or attack him or his expansion.

EDIT- Originally I had 9rax here but changed it to 8 after some extensive testing. 9 is not going to work against any half decent skilled/scouting/harrassing opponent. The lings will arrive slightly before the marine/bunker finish and thats if you don't get slowed-harassed. Even then its still a bit of luck and/or super hard micro to get in the bunk and repair etc.

There are a few different ways to play TvT that are very unusual.
TvT -
1)9rax/10depot at bridge. You don't need to complete a full wall as marines can get through anyways. Make marines asap and be ready to micro them with SCV support as well. If he went 2 or more barracks and/or MnM you will need to throw down a bunker near the rax and depot and put your 3-4 marines in it then get your factory. Otherwise skip bunker and make factory first. If he is doing similar build it may be wiser to get tank first but if he went marine build you will probably need 3-4 vultures and SCVs near by bunker to repair before you get tanks. Some may get 1 tank and siege going and immediately get a starport with wraith and dropship for harassment to control as well as mainly building tanks. If you scout port going up (usually by floating rax) it is wise to get an ebay, build a few key turrets, and build a few goliaths with range and +1attack upgrade. If he goes mass wraiths (which is hard from lack of gas) just turtle and make a few more gols, pick off as many tanks as you can and leap frog into a new base or into his main. From here on its typical TvT seige battles with floating buildings, turrets, gollies and drops. If you eventually get 2 or 3 bases BC are very good late game.
Another variation of this build that might work is mass vults and mines before tanks, but scans and marines usually are pretty good at stopping it. Its usually best to just gain footing with tanks and expand asap.
2)
Alternate build is 8rax/9depot/10rax mass marines and SCVs keep pressuring T, if you get a chance try and send 6 or more scv with all your marines and wrap them around the bunker and smash it, even if you don't win right then it gives you a good advantage and you can kill his depot etc. Just make sure you can defend a counter attack of vultures or a tank. From here on its just like I described in the first option.
MnM or marines into tanks.

I think I covered most of the basic strategies, If anyone has anything else to add or patch my builds, please send me a PM or whatever.

=======================================================================
As far as imbalance goes on this map:
T>P/T>Z slightly, it is situational and positional as well.
Z>P slightly again, its positional and situational.
Just to reiterate I think Terran is only like 56%:44% imbalance, its not blatantly imbalanced. Use your head when Terran has tanks all over the place, you have a few options.

PS- Surfer4Life is an excellent T player on BB (although BM at times) he usually uses a MnM vulture build that rapes me like 80% of the time PvT.

Also There is another little trick/glitch in the map that allows small units like zerglings to run between the edge of the map and an assimilator at top left spot. This can be abused to sneak passed cannons. As far as I'm concerned its not totally imba because it can be easily countered. The only thing that is totally bullshit is the SCV stack rush. That is a huge exploit and the moment you see someone trying it you should try and quit and take a draw game (if its before 2 minutes) if not, you can try to build on the geyser to stop the exploit.

Final Note:
Play more Blood Bath people! You have the knowledge now. I find it harder and harder to find decent Blood Bath opponents these days. It makes me a shittier player when I have no challenge. This is why I don't care if you know all my strats, It helps me play better when you know what to do. Makes the game more fun (imo anyways).

List of Oldschool (some new) BloodBath Players:
(mostly west)
11mbs
Ronin5151 / rebuilt
]-[avoc21
Eye-loser
Fathoss
-eXu-
-iCu-
TRS-80
Xx-Nemisis-xX
FatHampster
BB_lilplaya3200
Surfer4life
DarthTarsonis
TheRedBlueSea
ArfArfArf
Tenni$tar
CultureSh0ck
Nevergetawin
Teach_Me_To_Win
FoxForce5
Shire###
Death.Mage
Nova6969
RoOsteR
Sack-Up
Prowler
ReGiMe
RedGoliath
YourGarbageFool
JaPaNeZe
Wheremydogsat
ceel_warn
Dino
EchoOfRain
Frognosis
CalPoly
Wart_Dog
Wulf.Gar
Nebula9
NeoStrife
Snap
SilliestGoose
Jaeco
RuthlessHacker
StarCraftJunky
Kaotu
+Lokus+
batmaan_factor
DriveByMessiah
t0ne
ThaRegulator
Placidity
Astuit
ScorpioRising
go-for-it / Realjustice
some guys with [aFa] tag
SuN[ReD]
Sun[Yellow]
DreamZerg

remembering more..

EDIT 10/22/07- New version 1.36 Alphablend and I noticed that top right base was the only position that had the marine pop outside the wall. This was exploitable, so I fixed it. Its the same DL link as above
http://www.panschk.de/mappage/comments.php?mapid=3527

PS- A few quick videos on how to fix some gathering issues on OG BB (bottom left) 7 o'Clock spot.
Gas:
http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=6635017
http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=8864602
http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=4439677
Minerals:
http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=174727
http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=1969930

or

IntoTheWow

is awesome32263 Posts

July 31 2007 08:14 GMT

surfer4life is an idiot.

IntoTheWow

is awesome32263 Posts

July 31 2007 08:15 GMT

Good guide, i only read half of it so far, but i'll finish it now.

CharlieMurphy

United States22895 Posts

July 31 2007 08:30 GMT

Yea, he is quite annoying/bm sometimes but he sure does play well.

useLess

United States4781 Posts

July 31 2007 09:14 GMT

I wasnt even aware there were other versions of BB.

CharlieMurphy

United States22895 Posts

July 31 2007 09:45 GMT

Well, I have modified many versions of bloodbath. This seems to be the best one I've made out of the 20 or so I've used.

BroOd

Austin10831 Posts

July 31 2007 10:04 GMT

You should upload some good BB reps if you have any

Locked

United States4182 Posts

July 31 2007 10:32 GMT

56:44 is a pretty huge imba IMO and i actually think TvZ is even worse than that... TvP it might be closer to even, PvZ i have no idea

WhatisProtoss

Korea (South)2324 Posts

July 31 2007 10:32 GMT

Those protoss builds are weak; they are standard for larger maps. Protoss is very strong on BloodBath, especially against a 9-drone zerg or a 10rax terran if you cut probes.

ZvP you always 4 drone. Even a 6-gate protoss cannot stop that. A terran might stop it just with the sheer strength of scvs.

Jonoman92

United States9101 Posts

July 31 2007 11:52 GMT

#10

TL BB tourney anyone?

Silver

New Zealand378 Posts

July 31 2007 12:23 GMT

#11

niiice post, this should be in strategy forum as a resource people can search for

Myxomatosis

United States2392 Posts

July 31 2007 12:50 GMT

#12

good guide. didn't know you were painter

CharlieMurphy

United States22895 Posts

July 31 2007 14:24 GMT

#13

On July 31 2007 21:23 Silver wrote:
niiice post, this should be in strategy forum as a resource people can search for

it is , lol...

CharlieMurphy

United States22895 Posts

July 31 2007 14:26 GMT

#14

On July 31 2007 19:32 WhatisProtoss wrote:
Those protoss builds are weak; they are standard for larger maps. Protoss is very strong on BloodBath, especially against a 9-drone zerg or a 10rax terran if you cut probes.

ZvP you always 4 drone. Even a 6-gate protoss cannot stop that. A terran might stop it just with the sheer strength of scvs.

I didn't say Protoss was weak, I said it was hard to scout PvZ so that makes deciphering Zerg builds very hard. And scouting is very limited for early toss creating a minor imbalance.

Seriously dude 4pool is auto loss vs any build i do , even ZvZ 9pool will beat it with proper micro. You sound like a typical arrogant korean, you need to shut it down.

Obviously these builds are just basic guidelines as well. You must still be able to adapt to strange builds or rushes. IE, PvP enemy 5 gates or something fast, be prepared to make a gate earlier etc.

And to answer your question Brood, My HD broke last year along with 1000s of bloodbath replays. Most of my newer replays I don't consider to be worthy enough to learn from because I am rusty from not having computer/internet/work as well as a year break when WoW ate my soul.

Polis

Poland1292 Posts

July 31 2007 17:47 GMT

#15

I used 9pool/gas making lings constantly and building 2nd hath in P base (somehow close to go to his base whit sunken he should not see it as he will camp whit first zealots between buildings), dunno haw valid is that bo I played only couple times always vs 2 gate and he did not have enough zealots to fight in field before my hath morphed then fast sunken and next will hit his buildings.

Chill

Calgary25951 Posts

August 01 2007 03:46 GMT

#16

How would a 9 pool beat a 4 pool? That's pretty irrational. You'd have 6 Zerglings vs 10 Drones and after that you could Sunken your main.

Brutalisk

794 Posts

August 01 2007 04:36 GMT

#17

Z>P and T>P might not be terribly imbalanced (actually, with a well executed Zeal + cannon rush, P is probably the favorite in PvT!), but T>Z definately is.
1 base Terran is strong and 1 base (gas) Zerg is a joke.

I only skimmed through your text, you mentioned "good" strategies but ZvT is so goddamn hard vs. T on that map, even with these builds, it's ridiculous.
You might win if:
a) you are simply better (heh)
b) you manage to kill him with speedlings early on
c) you manage to kill him with 1 hatch fast lurker tech
d) you are able to get defilers

But most of the time you simply don't win versus a similarly skilled opponent, and most of the time you will be dead way before defiler tech.
Mutas are basically useless for harassing (short distances = easy defense), so you're forced to do lurk/ling and you can't keep T inside his base, he'll probably contain you all the time, when you finally get lurkers he'll add turrets and snipe the few lurks you have, you don't have the gas to rebuild enough lurkers, tanks kill your sunkens, GG. Or you die even earlier. If not, the T player sucked or wasn't familiar enough with playing on Bloodbath.

I think it's more realistic to say:
P>T early game 53%/47%, if mid or late game is reached then T>P 60%/40% (main reason: no space for proper flanking and T has easy map control and can even fire at your side minerals if bases are next to each other)
Z>P 53%/47%
T>Z 65%/35%

But maybe you should ask a real Bloodbath "pro"/addict, like alphablend. If he's still active... he used to own on that map.

CharlieMurphy

United States22895 Posts

August 01 2007 04:47 GMT

#18

I have played with alpha a lot and I'm sure he would agree with me on most of these builds. Late game pvt is closer to 50/50 than any other matchup. And why do people always mention that sorry zeal canon rush build. Any decent player will see it and crush it with SCV/Marine or even have tanks by the time the canons get deep (if they teched).

Mid game ZvT is not a walk in the park for terran either. If the zerg correctly harassed and kept him locked in his base with lurkers for a few minutes. This allows Z time to expand. Now when the terran finally has the power to move out the zerg will have the ability to flood the middle from 3 angles with lurkers/scourge/lings. It is scary as terran to move out too fast. The most a terran will have is 3-4rax, 1 factory, 1 starport, +1 upg, and few scans. Zerg will have 4 hatches, 2 geysers, carapace, and spire, as well as map control. There is not a lot of space to maneuver MnM vs lurkers.

As for the 4v9pool:
The 9-10 drones will be naked for a few seconds yes, but its not hard to micro with minimal losses (if any) until your lings pop, Even if he does kill half your drones you still have a better econ. If he is good he will stay on offensive as long as possible with lings rallied to you. Its not easy for him to win though.

TheGreatOne

United States534 Posts

August 04 2007 00:55 GMT

#19

Not to brag but ive beaten you multiple times on bloodbath charlie. Also about the balance t>z pretty hard the only legitimate stategy for zerg is fast hatch play but good terrans can stop it.z>=p basically because it is harder for toss because zergs can just take the two patches of extra minerals and can either go mass hydra/ling attack or muta or lurkers and its hard to know what they're doing but im very good at knowing what they're doing so its not so bad.p=>t 2 gate zealot rush is basically ineffective vs a good terran but they still have to defend it so it gives you a early advantage then you can 2 gate goon which the best counter to this is 3 rax m&m but if you have good micro your good then you can use dts well to get expos and you should always have more expos so its not so bad either

TheGreatOne

United States534 Posts

August 04 2007 01:28 GMT

#20

k I read your bo's for the mu's and i must say i disagree on many.
PvT- theres this insane mind game with goons vs m&m in the beginning because if they go 3 rax all in rine/firebats/scvs and time it well its fucking incredibly hard to beat. But if you have good timing yourself and good goon micro you stand a chance + dt's are almost essential against any of this dts can kill a marine in one swipe and + terrans almost have to have 2 cc's because one scanner is not enough to handle 4+ dts attacking and running. So by this time you can get a expo and start pumping which then you can either go carriers/or arbiters or just pump either way its pretty easy to win.

PvP- this is all about zealot micro i think its safe to tech once you get 10+ or more zealots and wall off your base then you either dt or goon i usually goon because its safer.

PvZ - theres a lot you could say about this mu you can 2 gate / cannon rush which works suprisingly better than you would think so. it forces zerg to slow down and not just plop 2 extra hatches down and the rest i agree with you on about this mu about scouting and how muta are pretty sucky unless your caught off guard. I found the best thing to do is just actually turtle yourself and get extra nexus and use the extra patches and scout very well and just overpower them.

ZvT - i find you have the best chance playing 1 hatch style and being insanely aggressive but good terrans can stop it basically it requires insanish savior like timing to have a chance to beat good tvz'ers imo.

ZvP - pretty straight forward i like to 5 hat mass ling/mass hydra +1 armor all in attacks pretty hard to stop then tech to lurk or muta and harass get expos and just overpower.

ZvZ - pretty odd mu try to get early advantage with lings and w.e pool you go if you go 9 pool and they go 12 your majorly behind. dont tech to quickly just like pvp basically.

TvP - your base screen shots are all right but I usually build much prettier :D and walling is pretty much pointless if you think about it most terran bloodbath vets know this.m&m are pretty powerful till mid game i like to go 3 rax m&m/bats/scvs most toss dont know how to stop it and then have a extra cc in your base so you have an extra scanner for dt's and also +1 armor so rines dont get slaughtered by dt's. I also like to switch to metal and as long as you dont lose your units and keep pushing and pressuring you can keep up but its insanely hard imo just as hard as toss for pvz.

TvZ - Very easy mu i dont think theres a bb player in the world who could beat me 3 out of 5 games in this mu. I have the most trouble against really aggressive zergs but if you get your bunk up and marine range it pretty much fucks speed lings. Theres a few players that have real good muta timing and such but its too hard for the zerg to get there expo running and usually just get overrun. Theres a special zerg i know whos showed me many zvt tricks like mass ling burrow then i go out and they unburrow rape my whole force lol of course that only works once. Or tricky stop lurkers then rape my whole force.

TvT - I find it funny that terrans who try to tech i sometimes just pump 3 rax m&m/all my scvs then just go all in before they get they're tank and rape them quite easily. But if your not playing gay like that its pretty much a battle about securing the middle getting a wraith fast because thats crucial to get the middle. I like to go 1 fact 1 starport build and secure the middle because once thats done its very difficult for the other player to win.

but ya ive played bloodbath since i started playing brood war like 5 years ago so i consider myself a pretty good bb player. I play on east under the name J.Dawg got many aka's. I havent played in months though so im pretty rusty but id say ive probably got the most solid protoss on bloodbath. I play well with all the races and understand them very deeply. I think the best version of bb is Blood bath Tourney edition i really have no idea who ever made it but i assume you have it its white and very positionally balanced.

Im pretty sure ive seen you play on east because i remember something similiar to a charliemurphy id and I know ive played and won but idk for sure ive played so many games.. Do you know players like keazn422 a pretty solid terran I caught him hacking years ago he says he dont now but i still think he does lol but hes pretty good. Wheremydogsat some 30 yr old korean dude but has a fucking solid zerg one of the best. Slicey/aka enforcer/destroyer or something i used to think he was real good years ago then i just got better but hes pretty decent old school bb player. Hellmuth-x17 aka hellmuth pretty damn good bb player plays very similar to me shares many thoughts very good player. Then i know a bunch of dumb players who are all right but arnt that good slowfx aka concur bad fur day or something , then theres JMC mexican not that good really, R]A[I]N all right player, theres some others but kind of forget them at the moment

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! [G] Blood Bath Tips,Tricks, and Strategies

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