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SUMMONING WALL OF TEXT HIIIIYYYAAAAAAA!!!
Ok first of all: why is this thread so active during night time?
It doesn't matter if you are discussing only scum reads. Every information scum gets during night is detrimental for town. At least that is how my logic works...
Next up, I am sure I do have a pretty good idea of who is scum, especially after analysing the last posts before the lynch. And even if I make myself a no.1-to-murder-target with this, we can still beat the scum!
Scum team: Umasi, Gotard, Sc_am (still 50/50 on scam but he blends in the team really well atm)
Scum is playing as a team. I will elaborate why this is important first:
- everyone in the scum team knows who the other scum members are
- first priority is not to allow any reads on the connection between the scum team
- you can cloak your connection by distributing different roles for each member
If you think about this trio as a team where,
Umasi is the vocal one, spamming in the thread and mostly trying to steer the conversation in a certain direction playing something like "shady town".
Gotard is the "reserved town" playing thoughtful and acting passive-agressive (e.g. with votes on weak targets) and
sc_am is the lurker in the team, mostly not writing at all but just enough to not get modkilled, also playing "innocent/newbie town".
Neither of them have really accused each other of being scum until the end of night 1!
The majority of their comments of each other were something along the line of: "I have no idea what xx is up to" and "I will elaborate on xx later on".
Now to my strongest read which is Usami:
He voted second on reps, which is pretty early, with no real evidence at hand. After it was clear that reps will get lynched he unvoted reps with the following reasoning:
On August 02 2013 03:44 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 03:22 reps)squishy wrote:
I can help win this game much more then RDaneelOlivaw or sc_a.M. I am trying my best to get information out of people to help town win. I know I unvoted and voted other people but I do that to try to get people to talk.
RDaneelOlivaw is busy or a lurker so he was my first vote. Usami defended me which I thought I could do my self so I thought he was defending me as a scum cover up changed my mind and went with infii because he seems pretty
shady does no come up with answers but excuses. That specific line helps a lot. I want you to scum hunt reps, don't go back on your word here. Just because you're off my personal chopping block (dunno about everyone elses) doesn't mean you can go goof around again. This entire push feels wrong, because the tone of your typing feels like you're legitimately trying, and legitimately confused. You've been a detriment to town, but if we can work through that, it may turn out better in the end, and I don't want to lynch you anymore. I'd rather just lynch the scummiest, and you are no longer the scummiest. I am going out to lunch in fifteen ish minutes, going to reread and decide who to vote on. I don't think reps is our lynch. That said, I do want to see a lynch through though. ##UNVOTE REPS
"I can help win this game much more then RDaneelOlivaw or sc_a.M."
That was reason enough to let his suspicion fall after discussing about him for almost half of day1? Really?
His next post:
On August 02 2013 03:53 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 02:44 sc_a.M wrote:
No, well eventually maybe, I think I am going to get killed next day anyway, the reason you kill reps is the same you can apply to me, only reps started posting earlier (and after seeing the reactions I didn't really bother), what he said made sense to me. That you hate him so much gave me a day I guess. Perhaps after night time when we actually have the chance on some clues we can do more than the random lynching that is occuring at the moment. I don't understand why beeing against random lynching, and nothing else you can do day1 is anti town, but what ever.
##vote no-lynch Don't do thaaaaaaaaat. No lynching is stupid t.t Also, don't preemptively martyr when it's the end of day one and you have a single vote on you. It's a far better idea to start scumhunting. We won't get clues from the nighttime, all we'll know is if there is a serial killer or not. The only revealing thing is the nightkill, but even then, what would you learn from that? Like, if deus died and flipped town. What happens then? Nothing is really revealed. In fact, it might just be more confusing. No lynching is bad. We aren't random lynching, we're legitimately putting thought into who we're voting, that's the entire POINT. I'll give you a small grace period as per reps, get your ass in gear, and by that I specifically mean go filter dive people and see what you can come up with. This applies to you Rdaneel, don't just mildly comment on things, bring up things we haven't talked about and discuss it all, or discuss old things to death, as long as it's not about reps. We've beaten reps to death.
"No lynching is stupid"
...11 minutes later:
On August 02 2013 04:04 Umasi wrote:
And yeah, I recognize a no-lynch might occur.
That's how hard my opinion of reps has swung, to the point that I'm willing to no lynch over his death.
##VOTE INFII
I'm out of time. I'll explain the vote more later, when I have time.
Now no-lynching isn't that stupid anymore?
...his next post was the closest thing I could find for an explanation on his vote:
On August 02 2013 05:20 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 04:54 Nightcat99 wrote:
it works, and you shall just post now, umasi is not answering .
So its super scummy to me, hes the number 1 target tomorrow. Show nested quote +I am going out to lunch in fifteen ish minutes, going to reread and decide who to vote on was afk, I made that clear. Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 04:04 Umasi wrote:
And yeah, I recognize a no-lynch might occur.
That's how hard my opinion of reps has swung, to the point that I'm willing to no lynch over his death.
##VOTE INFII
I'm out of time. I'll explain the vote more later, when I have time.
I've made that clear too. I was pretty much perfectly clear on everything. I agree what I did was scummy, because I'm a proponent of never ever no lynch. THAT is how hard my opinion swayed on him. Since reps flipped town, I'm looking at deus and infii. Infii moreso than deus. Most of what Gotard has posted about infii has had merit, which is why I voted him. He's been noncommittal, has posted excuses for not posting (it's too hard to do(fuck try anyway dammit))
I don't really see any explanation about his vote here. He even uses information he got after the lynch.
Also defending gotard by legitimating his aggressiveness early on.
To recap things, I think Umasi is trying to lead town to lynch another townsman with his very active and spammy behaviour. He should be the next lynch target imo, unless he states a flawless and logic defense.
Now on to gotard.
His first most noticeable action was an early, seemingly random, vote on me.
On July 31 2013 20:28 Gotard wrote:This game will be hard. A lot of lurkers and two of the most confusing people in the whole universe: Umasi and Alakaslam. reps)squishy - He's posting isn't pro town whatsoever. Hue huehuehue. Really? If you are newbie better start posting reads/thought/analysis infii - My first post in my last game was pretty similar to what you have written right here. I was mafia. Show nested quote +On July 31 2013 17:47 infii wrote:
Unfortunately I can't be as active as I would like to be, but I'll try to post as often as I can.
So I'll go ahead and tell you my thoughts up until now after reading all the posts.
Umasi is at the top of my suspicious-list right now, because it seems he tries to stir things up and doesn't act
neutral in any way. (e.g. anti deus - pro reps).
However that is not enough for me to vote on him... it's still the first day, right?
DeusXmachina took an early stance which backfired at him so now he tries to get clear of it. Seems legit aka town.
Holyflare is pretty neutral until now, which is good.
reps)squishy has stirred up some suspicion but that seemed to be unintentional, also I liked his defense.
Nightcat99 is nr. 2 on the suspicious-list. Not many posts but the few ones have a chaotic flavor to them as in trying to confuse people.
StiMaDDict acts generally neutral, seems like town.
Alakaslam's last posts were totally bonkers. No idea what he is up to.
Again, this were just my thoughts about everyone active in this discussion up until now, there are no facts that I can claim to be true or false. "acts generally neutral, seems like town." - being neutral is scummy. If you are town you want to post your reads and generate pro town content and not to look neutral. ##Vote: infii
At this point I looked weak/neutral because I didn't want to determine myself on something as it was still early on day1. So I was a possibly easy-to-lynch target from scum perspective.
However I stated Umasi as my primary scum target and if we assume gotard and umasi being part of the scum team, that was another good reason for him to jump on me.
Following after that were several accusations on which I tried to defend myself.
I'd like to quote slam here:
On August 02 2013 09:07 Alakaslam wrote:
[...]
I don't get why people dislike Indio jones, are they actually reading him?
That is what I was asking myself all the time. I defended myself like Gotard wanted - not enough. I wrote a wall of text going in-depth on my arguments in full detail - still not enough.
But it makes sense now. You can argue all you want with scum, if they're on to you, one will never get clear.
sc_a.m
...
He has exactly 3 posts in his history in which he said something. (I didn't even say contributed!)
The most important quote:
On August 02 2013 02:44 sc_a.M wrote:
No, well eventually maybe, I think I am going to get killed next day anyway, the reason you kill reps is the same you can apply to me, only reps started posting earlier (and after seeing the reactions I didn't really bother), what he said made sense to me. That you hate him so much gave me a day I guess. Perhaps after night time when we actually have the chance on some clues we can do more than the random lynching that is occuring at the moment. I don't understand why beeing against random lynching, and nothing else you can do day1 is anti town, but what ever.
##vote no-lynch
If I understand him correctly he tells us that he had a similiar mindset to reps. But watching reps getting all the attention, he didn't want to end up like him. So if we follow his thought process, day2 would be the time for him to come up on stage and state his results of analysis to avoid any random lynching. If he does not do that, with all his passiveness and the pro no-lynch, he is pretty much scum (with the small possibility of him being town but gave up on playing mafia)
I am very curious how day2 will unfold!
PS.: I did not read holy's last minute analysis before posting if this is of any importance later on.
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Thank you infii, you have done a far better job of defending yourself than anyone else in the thread, by virtue of actually stating your position and thoughts on something in a clear manner. I basically agree with you on scam, I obviously disagree with you regarding me, and I don't think you'd defended yourself as well as other people had thought. Go read what I posted about my rational behind my vote swap yesterday (you might have missed it).
basically, before this you were kinda scummy, now you're pretty townie. If you want me to respond to any points in your case, feel free to ask if I didn't cover it in my previous post linked here for your convenience
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422313¤tpage=42#838
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On August 03 2013 07:15 Umasi wrote:Thank you infii, you have done a far better job of defending yourself than anyone else in the thread, by virtue of actually stating your position and thoughts on something in a clear manner. I basically agree with you on scam, I obviously disagree with you regarding me, and I don't think you'd defended yourself as well as other people had thought. Go read what I posted about my rational behind my vote swap yesterday (you might have missed it). basically, before this you were kinda scummy, now you're pretty townie. If you want me to respond to any points in your case, feel free to ask if I didn't cover it in my previous post linked here for your convenience http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422313¤tpage=42#838
Yes, please explain why you unvoted reps so close before the lynch and voted me.
At that point it was clear that reps will get lynched, with or without your vote and there was no chance for me to get lynched.
And I don't want to hear what you thought of reps or me, but why you unvoted on reps, where basically most of us agreed on lynching him, even if he is town.
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infii, did you even read the message I linked? The entire reason I unvoted is BECAUSE of what I thought of reps and you.
It was not clear that reps was going to be lynched, here's why:
If it were clear, then people wouldn't get angry at me for endangering the lynch. and the entire point behind my reasoning is that I'd have preferred a no lynch than a reps lynch.
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On August 03 2013 07:50 Umasi wrote:
infii, did you even read the message I linked? The entire reason I unvoted is BECAUSE of what I thought of reps and you.
It was not clear that reps was going to be lynched, here's why:
If it were clear, then people wouldn't get angry at me for endangering the lynch. and the entire point behind my reasoning is that I'd have preferred a no lynch than a reps lynch.
Yes I read your post.
What I was trying to ask is: why did you unvote reps specifically at that time so close before lynch? What did you hope to accomplish by this?
As you stated reps convinced you to swap to a possible no-lynch with this argument: "I can help win this game much more then RDaneelOlivaw or sc_a.M."
I just can't get my mind around how that sentence can change an opinion at all, and like I said, especially at that time.
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Also on a side note: Holy shit holy!
Your analysis is marvelous, I gladly would have get murdered instead of you!
Seems like scum knows what they are doing...
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Vatican City State732 Posts
On August 01 2013 08:13 Gotard wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:06 DeusXmachina wrote:
We should look for persistent patterns of lurking over multiple days. If we still have heavy lurkers during the latter half of day 2 then we can put a lot of pressure on those individuals. What do guys think about analyzing infrequent posters patterns of posting (say that 5 times fast). Is someone who posts at semi regular intervals but posts infrequently more likely to be scum than someone who posts infrequently but in spurts? I would like to know if this could be a basis for analysis. It sounds like to hazard to me. You can never be sure if someone doesn't have free time, doesn't feel like reading thread/filters or anything else but if you will find something interesting, who knows?
On August 02 2013 16:37 Gotard wrote:RDO's spike is activity after the 1st is super weird. Why did he wait so long to go on me when he could do that way later and instead he decided to lurk hard? It would be way more beneficial for town to accuse me before day ended because It would give us another lynch candidate and there would much more discussion going and voting patter would be more interesting to look at. All he did day one was lurking and sheeping Reps. I think he's trying to cover his sheeping and look more pro town. Show nested quote +On August 02 2013 13:55 Alakaslam wrote:
Gotard seems to have to read a post twice to fully get it accurately. Yeah, Engish isn't my native language and I make a lot of various mistakes 
These two posts smack of inconsistency to me I understand the suspicion over my spike in activity after day 1. I can't deny that it's reasonable to wonder. That being said, the fact that he was calling for leniency for lurker prior and is not trying to leap on me for doing it makes it seem to me that he is looking for an excuse to target one of the weaker players. This is consistent with his earlier outright assault on infii. In both cases, infii and now I had a play (me day 1 lurking, infii that bad post) that was sufficiently suspicious, which he has leapt on...yet he stayed out of the reps case and has been pretty
careful to avoid accusing other players as well...just smells scummy to me.
He and Usami are pretty clearly playing the same game. Just ctrl+f through his posts, he spends all kind of time talking about, defending, and agreeing with Usami. He does have potential to alleviate my suspicions with his post on his thoughts on Usami that is apparently forthcoming. I look forward to good things.
Usami is making a strong case to go after scam, so I doubt both of them are mafia. Obviously stupid to lynch your own. Given my suspicions about Usami and Gotard, that makes me think scam is either neutral or just afk townie.
From infinii--
He voted second on reps, which is pretty early, with no real evidence at hand. After it was clear that reps will get lynched he unvoted reps with the following reasoning:
On August 02 2013 03:44 Umasi wrote:
Show nested quote +
Show nested quote +
That specific line helps a lot.
I want you to scum hunt reps, don't go back on your word here. Just because you're off my personal chopping block (dunno about everyone elses) doesn't mean you can go goof around again. This entire push feels wrong, because the tone of your typing feels like you're legitimately trying, and legitimately confused.
You've been a detriment to town, but if we can work through that, it may turn out better in the end, and I don't want to lynch you anymore.
I'd rather just lynch the scummiest, and you are no longer the scummiest.
I am going out to lunch in fifteen ish minutes, going to reread and decide who to vote on. I don't think reps is our lynch. That said, I do want to see a lynch through though.
##UNVOTE REPS
"I can help win this game much more then RDaneelOlivaw or sc_a.M."
That was reason enough to let his suspicion fall after discussing about him for almost half of day1? Really
Looks even more suspicious in light of this quote from Usami
so voting to no lynch is squandering your vote, and I'll happily switch votes to prevent a no lynch
I think this is really a critical point, we've really let Usami off the hook for this. The reasoning for this is super weak from a champion of always-lynch.
There was a lot of discussion I saw surrounding the fact that reps was ultimately a harm whether or not he was town, which was supported by Usami who said
On August 01 2013 08:49 Umasi wrote:
reps, you ARE COUNTERPRODUCTIVE
you have preformed jack.
there are LOTS of good reasons for voting you.
There's nothing stopping you from ignoring everyone and going and independently building cases on people and posting them, because I think we can all look past the "who posted it" to the "jesus this is scummy as crap"
when you just sit here and whine about people voting you, that's not a compelling reason to switch off.
He IS correct in thinking that you're hurting us if you're not scum. You are hurting town if you are not scum.
(this implies that if you're scum, you're helping town by being an obvious target)
The way to be interpreted as a townie is to be townie, not to be like "why don't people believe me :<<<<" because scum can say EXACTLY what you're saying. Nothing about what you've done actually helps us read you as town, we just have to wifom ourselves into thinking you're town. But if you just look at everything objectively, you're scum.
And yet that one line, that one line about how he could be helpful was enough to sway him.
I think his main goal in this was obviously to start a counterpush away from reps. In that case, reps) would have been a pretty weak player (easy pickings whenever) who likely would believe firmly that Usami is town. Eliminating someone else like infii would have far more beneficial for mafia- given all the discussion on reps anyone else would have been a shot in the dark-, which is why I really think this a scummy move.
Cliffnotes again:
Gotard scum for not being logically consistent with his views on lurking- I acknowledge, not the strongest tell but it builds on the points I illustrated in previous posts- also, he is playing game with Usami
Usami scum- partially because he is playing iwth gotard who i think scummy. Partially because of that switch which was a strong anti-town move (yes, I am changing my position on this--I said earlier that it should be more or less null, but upon further reflection I don't see real benefits for the town in it--its scummy).
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as a side note (this is totally irrelevant btw) why do people keep calling me usami?
Rdaneel it looks like you just recased everything that holyflare and infii said. I'm not actually seeing anything that I should bother addressing or haven't addressed yet.
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On August 03 2013 06:15 Nightcat99 wrote:
I mean his vote were all over the place, he switched vote to slam on the last min because reason unknown to me....
Page 35
FTW
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Vatican City State732 Posts
I brought up a contradiction between two of gotards post that indicates further scummy behavior (I was the first to level the finger at him too lol). I didn't add a ton with regards to you other than to highlight that you too are obviously playing a game together since about half of gotard's posts are about you in some way shape or form. If you can explain why he is so pro-Usami, go ahead. Until then, you're partially implicated by association with him
No, there aren't a ton of questions for you to answer from my post. Most of my post with regards to you was focused on building upon infinii's case against you in a couple of areas with quotes, theories, or voicing agreement on it. If you can refute what he says, go ahead. If you have solid reasons that can go a long way to dispelling my doubts about you. Your explanations haven't been convincing as of yet
I still think you haven't reconciled the statement I quoted from you about switching votes and the actual switch, but I don't think you can.
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Indio later contributed though, everyone looks at one shitty post and goes "WAUAUAUOUGH SKUM MILK"
Then his outstanding analysis, nope ignored
I say go read his filter
"Nope nobody spelled it out"
But whatever. He isn't my strongest townread on earth.
Catching up
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if the case is you won't listen to what I say, then I can't help you there. Someone else will have to talk about it.
Rdaneel, what do you think of scam? I think it's smart to pressure him (although if he goes totally afk then we can leave him for the modkill), and you're not going to convince me I'm scum basically ever, so in lieu of other people to talk to~(unless other people are actually around)
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On August 03 2013 08:17 infii wrote:
Also on a side note: Holy shit holy!
Your analysis is marvelous, I gladly would have get murdered instead of you!
Seems like scum knows what they are doing...
No, I fukt up.
See, like you mentioned I got all active at night
Made flare into a flare
![[image loading]](http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-wo-7LXBTEpQ/UHQw_vbTbAI/AAAAAAAAAGE/r4bPwDwkQgw/s1600/facepalm.jpg)
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I know why you are pushing scam uamsi. (XD JK)
Umasi. Thou hast much defense to enact
DO IT NOW O IST SKUM MILK
RDO sup
GOD OF THE MACHINE. ...sup. still on? Pleas be so I wanna talk wit ya in a time sensitive manner, maphia speed chess, yes?
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Well crap, nobody said anything
You all leave already?
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~I have explained myself for the vote swap, and that's what people hate.
Me and gotard being similarly suspicious of infii isn't weird, people who think that infii was town are weird, because he was scummy (not anymore)
also, if reps were an easy mislynch to push, why would I immediately target deus? Wouldn't it be more logical to keep pushing reps? Because that was early enough it wasn't "concrete" that reps was gonna get lynched.
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On August 03 2013 05:05 jrkirby wrote: Good popcorn
Make me some?
I think I actually get nk'ed this game because I'm 'a on mah game son!
Yeeeeeee
+ Show Spoiler + (shivering, whimpering, crouched in a corner of his basement) I really hope I don't sux forever! Must learn! MUST LEARN!!! (Starts playing this) Whoooo. Whooooo Whoo Whoo Whoo Whoo, whoooiooooooooooAUGH! I CANNOT WHISTLE! I CAN'T STAND IT I TELL YOU! THIS IS DRIVING ME SANE!
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On August 03 2013 09:10 Umasi wrote:
~I have explained myself for the vote swap, and that's what people hate.
Me and gotard being similarly suspicious of infii isn't weird, people who think that infii was town are weird, because he was scummy (not anymore)
also, if reps were an easy mislynch to push, why would I immediately target deus? Wouldn't it be more logical to keep pushing reps? Because that was early enough it wasn't "concrete" that reps was gonna get lynched.
That isn't the only thing, actually you haven't defended that, and also there is the tempting prospect of my pressure, on a better player. You don't think scum would be positively giddy with getting rid of him, assuming he is town anyway, and then going "oh gowrsh I hate u all. We totes should have lynched reps, reps is bad!" Next day?
No, you need better kusplain
Moar has come up.
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Heck RDO pointed out the pro bono most scummy thing you have done, come now please defense it
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Alakaslam, I don't even know what you're referring to. Is it my inconsistent policy with my actions? Is it the way I played early game, who I pressured, how I pressured?
No ones actually making it clear.
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EPT
