EPThe even backed off his accusations which is what everyone said a scum FT would do anyway so come on
[N] Sicilian Mafia Style - Page 23
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
he even backed off his accusations which is what everyone said a scum FT would do anyway so come on | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:44 DoctorHelvetica wrote: hey instead of splitting the vote down the middle between sloosh and ve how about vote for firmtofu instead or at least can we even discuss it at all he even backed off his accusations which is what everyone said a scum FT would do anyway so come on I could be tempted to vote for Firm. I think. Talk to me about Kholly. He's confirmed-Chez now and his reads have been the opposite of decent. Shit in fact. And Chezinu may be a troll, but he's not shit. Agree/disagree? | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:19 marvellosity wrote: I'm not 100% sure I buy Firm's reasoning for switching his stance on lying as town. I don't get why the fact it's a closed setup means that lying is suddenly totally awful, whereas in a semi-open setup you can lie repeatedly. Makes no sense. Further, I don't like how his suspicion of DrH went. By about page 16-17 (I just read the whole game in a row) I was thinking DrH looked really quite town, and Firm's continued suspicion of him seemed pretty off. I also don't like how he's graciously now calling DrH less suspect, without actually responding to DrH's case on him. *Why* is VE a far better lynch than slOosh? This is just saying things. I literally can't see the rationale for slOosh having played so townie (he hasn't) that he's a much worse lynch than VE. . Lying is a matter of opinion, so I don't really care whether you "buy" it or not. I am not responding to DrH's case because it has solid points. I would like to clarify my intentions. Much of my accusations toward DrH were just poking and prodding, trying to elicit some sort of reaction. I tried this on slOosh and I got a town read on him because of it. When I tried it on DrH, I got a completely different response. There were a few inconsistencies in his behavior that I found odd. When he posted his meta case, I was legitimately shocked. I didn't think DrH, whom I consider to a rather rational player, would reek so strongly of confirmation bias. I hold that my play between the two games is stylistically identical, so I found it odd that that was the best argument he could think of to justify a case on me. Because of this, I pursued DrH far longer than I did slOosh. When DrH posted a rational case against me, I saw it as something that a townie would do. The points against me are completely valid and you should all definitely look at them. If you feel I should defend myself from them, then force me to. However, if you have a town read on me, I would rather not waste time defending myself thereby derailing the thread into a conversation about me which will be unproductive in the long-run (considering that I know I am town). On July 18 2013 07:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote: You're being inconsistent, and I've already answered both of these questions. 1. I didn't say that. Oats said I said that. Here is what I said (and I've posted the entire PM logs, another reason I think oats is scum.) Here is what I said: 2. And here is what I said about sloOsh: How could anybody interpret this as a strong townread? But I'm NOT REACTING to his alignment. Strongly. Or otherwise. I'm explaining why what he is doing isn't a "consolidated effort". I mention the word townie ONCE! Scum can easily fake townie perspectives. This hardly counts as a hard and intense reaction. In fact it is much softer and less reactive than your accusation of a "consolidated effort" which is ridiculous considering it is - as you emphasize - a single post. Yet you're calling me a liar here again - How do you know I pretended? You're assuming - confirmation bias - you were told to attack me and need a reason. You're the one that's backtracking. 1. Do you believe I lied about having missed sloOsh's post initially? 2. Looking at those two posts next to eachother, who's the one really having a strong reaction here? Now you're semi-dropping the argument, you won't concede that I'm not a liar or that I'm town but you can't go after me because you don't actually have any ammunition. Weird. That is particularly enlightening information about Oats. I'm going to look through his filter in detail. I am dropping the argument, not semi-dropping it. I won't concede that you're not a liar or that you are town, because you still haven't convinced me. This is a game of probability. You have done a good job of decreasing my suspicions, but I am not willing to rule you out as scum based on one post. You may be unfamiliar with my playstyle, so I will explain. At the beginning of the game, I run through all the posts and try to find the slightest bit of dirt on anyone. I question them about it and if: 1) They fail to respond 2) Give an inadequate answer I will pursue them further. The reason I'm dropping the case on you is because you gave me an adequate answer. The reason I did not drop the case on you until now is because all of your other posts defending yourself were wholly inadequate. | ||
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Vivax
21690 Posts
I'm asking VE to forward PMs to you. It would REALLY REALLY be nice if he stayed alive, not just for that, but cause his claim is too weird to be fake imo. Please, everyone consider voting ace, even Malongo is fine for me, or kush. Just pick someone that we really won't miss. I picked ace cause he defied town openly, his whole posting is a joke, I received word that he is in another game at the same time, and he acts like he's stupid in this one, just to fuck off. It's not policy, it can easily be scum playing in a way that leads anyone leading their lynch ad absurdum cause of this policy lynching prejudice. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
Koshi's filter is full of logical fallacies and conveniently blending in with other people's reads if you can dissect his long posts. His first reads post Lists oats, VE, gumshoe, Malongo. People are convienently on Malongo and VE at this point but no one really on oats/gumshoe for the most part so even though he lays suspicion down on all of them he makes it clear that he wants to bandwagon onto the popular lynches first. This post pretty much spells out his play for the rest of the game, which scum often do. He regurgitates reasons other people have made on malongo and VE, then for his thoughts on oats and gumshoe simply calls them out on activity/posting? lol scummy. He then later gives gumshoe posts who is a scumread of his. Makes zero sense and that's usually a scumtell when you do illogical things that help the people you are suspicious of because you want to garner town trust (and you know they are town) Finishes all this with saying he has to go bed and casually leaves a useless vote on malongo who is in no real danger today. Unassociating himself with the flip today. Pretty sure Koshi is scum. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
I won't concede that you're not a liar That alone is proof to me that you are scum. Will you admit you completely misinterpreted the way I defended sloOsh? You still consider that a really extreme and strong townread? Jesus. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
The points against me are completely valid and you should all definitely look at them. If you feel I should defend myself from them, then force me to. an accused townie would never say this | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
Vivax, how do you feel about Chez? kush is a terrible lynch btw. DrH, please don't ignore me, I don't wanna use my posts chasing people. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
##Unvote: VisceraEyes | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:54 FirmTofu wrote: This is my 19th post. I need a few posts please. I am going to unvote tentatively and look through the filters of Oats, Ace, Kholly, Koshi, MZ, and Malongo. I will decide who to vote soon but this list, along with VE, are the primary group of people I'm looking at. ##Unvote: VisceraEyes ##give firmtofu 3 posts | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:42 marvellosity wrote: I don't understand where 95% comes from, like those are reasons to think he might be mafia, but to be that certain? slOosh was inactive/bad/whatever day 1 in Nomination Mafia, and (much like VE) has had a lot less time to post as of late, so I assume you've factored this in to your unusually high evaluation? It's just a number. It doesn't mean anything. I could have just done "^ mafia", but people didn't like it the last time I did that  On July 18 2013 07:49 Vivax wrote: Marv, please don't use all of your posts within 2 hours (although we don't really have excessively much time left). I'm asking VE to forward PMs to you. It would REALLY REALLY be nice if he stayed alive, not just for that, but cause his claim is too weird to be fake imo. Please, everyone consider voting ace, even Malongo is fine for me, or kush. Just pick someone that we really won't miss. I picked ace cause he defied town openly, his whole posting is a joke, I received word that he is in another game at the same time, and he acts like he's stupid in this one, just to fuck off. It's not policy, it can easily be scum playing in a way that leads anyone leading their lynch ad absurdum cause of this policy lynching prejudice. Vivax, I don't think you understand how ace plays when he doesn't have time. He acts like an ass, plain and simple. There's nothing good about his posting but it doesn't make him mafia (see games like igrok's good clean old fashioned as an example). He just replaced in and has another game, I'm willing to give him some time. | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On July 18 2013 07:52 DoctorHelvetica wrote: That alone is proof to me that you are scum. Will you admit you completely misinterpreted the way I defended sloOsh? You still consider that a really extreme and strong townread? Jesus. I deliberately exaggerated your defense of slOosh in order to poke for inherent guilt. If you respond with, "OF COURSE SLOOSH IS TOWN, HOW COULD HE NOT BE TOWN? LOOK AT HIS POST, JESUS CHRIST! OF COURSE HE'S TOWN." Then I pursue you further. Why? Because scum are more worried about being called liars than they are about their honest motivations. If you respond with, "Yeah, maybe I shouldn't have been so quick to judge slOosh. You're right, he could definitely be either scum or town, but I'm leaning town atm." Then I would have dropped the case immediately. Your reaction to my question was critical to my behavior. I hope you see where I was coming from if you are town. Consider that I currently have a town read on slOosh, who I accused with a similar tactic. There is a reason for this. | ||
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Vivax
21690 Posts
Lynch is in an hour, I think. Gonna work through DrH's points then, after getting an own impression of FT's filter first. | ||
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On July 18 2013 08:04 HiroPro wrote: It's just a number. It doesn't mean anything. I could have just done "^ mafia", but people didn't like it the last time I did that Vivax, I don't think you understand how ace plays when he doesn't have time. He acts like an ass, plain and simple. There's nothing good about his posting but it doesn't make him mafia (see games like igrok's good clean old fashioned as an example). He just replaced in and has another game, I'm willing to give him some time. Welp Ace is all ours now, he just got blasted out of nuclear so hopefully he steps up. Having thought about it I'd rather not kill chez, as cryptic as it was I actually felt he was trying to communicate something to me through his posting, compare what I put down to his "oh father whhhhhy" posting in nuclear... and he admitted that he was Chez... Just meh on his lynch. Why is no one mentioning a Strong and big Lynch? Hes lurking hard, hasn't done much to improve his posting and the accusation against him just sort of dropped off the radar, it wasn't assuaged. Oats as well is kinda laying low, I think I could settle with lynching one of those two, gonna have to reneg on Sloosh and Ve for the day vig reason and Sloosh has stepped it up in my opinion. I feel comfterble with my vote here. ##Vote:Strongandbig VE, why aren't you shooting? Your a prime target tonight if you dont, and you clear up todays lynch if you do. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
You sounded so confident that slOosh was town after glancing at his post. Why? Only scum could be so certain of such a thing. Considering that was the first time you had ever read slOosh's post, it doesn't really make sense for you to have such a strong reaction if you were town. So you're admitting now that was a deliberate exaggeration to gauge my reaction of what I really thought of sloOsh? Well here's a list of some of my quotes regarding him: It's hardly a consolidated effort and I hardly ever said I have a strong townread on him either. In fact, I don't have any read on sloOsh cause I haven't been focused on him this game. He hasn't jumped out and grabbed my attention. read his defense he said i have a STRONG townread on sloosh which is not what i said, i was only pointing out how he misrepresented what sloosh was saying. saying that something is non-scummy from a player is not laying out a strong townread. he's panicking. Ridiculous. I said what sloOsh said didn't mean anything at all. Later in that post I stated "What sloOsh is doing is townier than what you're doing", directed at FirmTofu. This is not the same as claiming I have a strong townread on sloOsh. FirmTofu jumps illogically at the bait - MEANING he is looking for reasons to attack me rather than finding them naturally. sloOsh at that point, at least had offered some advice on how to PM constructively. FirmTofu had only been talking about the traitor role up until that point. The third quote by me is part of the post that made you unvote me! Yet you continue the argument about sloOsh! So your claim is: You deliberately claimed (this could be interpreted as lying more than anything I've done, by the way) that I was defending sloOsh harder than you really thought I was to probe my reaction. Why are you still probing my reaction? I've stated several times that I don't have a townread on sloOsh, much less a strong one. The only reason I even paid attention to sloOsh in the first place is because you used his post as a jumping off point to attack me!!!! If you respond with, "OF COURSE SLOOSH IS TOWN, HOW COULD HE NOT BE TOWN? LOOK AT HIS POST, JESUS CHRIST! OF COURSE HE'S TOWN." Then I pursue you further. Why? Because scum are more worried about being called liars than they are about their honest motivations. If you respond with, "Yeah, maybe I shouldn't have been so quick to judge slOosh. You're right, he could definitely be either scum or town, but I'm leaning town atm." Then I would have dropped the case immediately. THIS IS BULLSHIT BECAUSE I NEVER JUDGED SLOOSH I NEVER CALLED HIM TOWN I NEVER SAID I HAD A READ ON HIM MY POST ABOUT SLOOSH WAS NEUTRAL IN FACT SEVERAL TIMES AFTER THE FACT, I SAID MORE OR LESS THE SECOND EXAMPLE (minus the part where I say "you're right" about anything because you're scum and wrong about everything). You're the one lying and making shit up now it's so obvious oh my god | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
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Vivax
21690 Posts
I think the lurker policy lynch is always a good one to consider. Although they may not necessarily be the best lynch, they do serve the purpose of setting up the lategame well. We don't want our endgame to suffer from inactivity and these types of lynches should prevent that. Perhaps we could also consider policy lynching people who repeatedly post one-liners. That sort of behavior is largely non-beneficial and we should send a message to everyone that we are not going to tolerate it. I'm expecting you to deliver. Which of the lurkers/ace-style-posters would you pick? Tentatively putting out ace and malongo out there for you to give me an opinion on, would be appreciated thanks. On July 18 2013 07:18 FirmTofu wrote: If he truly is dayvigi, why can't we ask him to prove it by shooting a lurker? Why doesn't he shoot Ace? I don't see his role claim absolving anything unless he can prove it. He told me he can only shoot 12 h before lynch, target dies at lynch. Would you take the risk of disrupting a marv-me-VE mason circle and losing a vigi instead of giving him the chance to prove himself tomorrow? At this point obviously you unvoted him, but at the time you had shown reluctance. Here's your fix for your reply, lil junke  ##Donate: 1 post to FT | ||
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Mr. Wiggles
Canada5894 Posts
So, I'm stumped. Why is Malongo the most villainous of scum, but MZ gets passed over? | ||
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On July 18 2013 08:21 VayneAuthority wrote: I think it's safe to say that DrH and FT are not scum together lol. I actually have town reads on both of you so if you could stop arguing and look at some of the other cases presented that would be great. (hypocrite I know after arguing with DrH) I wish DrH would just drop it. All of this inflammatory posting from him is just pushing him further towards a town read for me. He seems to have some sort of fixation on me because he genuinely believes I am scum. While this unfortunate, I don't think there is anything I can say to convince him otherwise. I will not respond to any of DrH's inflammatory posting because it is starting to be emotional and irrational. If anyone else actually has some problems with me that they would like me to address, I will address them directly. Otherwise, arguing with DrH is a waste of my time and takes away from legitimate scumhunting. On July 18 2013 08:22 Vivax wrote: FirmTofu, your introductory post contained this: I'm expecting you to deliver. Which of the lurkers/ace-style-posters would you pick? Tentatively putting out ace and malongo out there for you to give me an opinion on, would be appreciated thanks. He told me he can only shoot 12 h before lynch, target dies at lynch. Would you take the risk of disrupting a marv-me-VE mason circle and losing a vigi instead of giving him the chance to prove himself tomorrow? At this point obviously you unvoted him, but at the time you had shown reluctance. Here's your fix for your reply, lil junke ##Donate: 1 post to FT I am leaning towards Ace. But honestly, there are plenty of good choices. Ace is someone I know can play a better game than what he's doing now, so I'm inclined to call him out on it. | ||
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VayneAuthority
United States8983 Posts
On July 18 2013 08:28 Mr. Wiggles wrote: For the people wanting to kill Malongo, why him over MZ? Looking through his posts, they have nothing to do with the game really. So, you can't call him scum off of content, only really behaviour, due to him posting but not saying anything about the game. MZ though, has been doing something similar, but his posting blatantly mocks the town and shrugs off any responsibility to help. As well, MZ, at least initially, interacted more with the game, but when asked repeatedly to clarify his posts, he did not do so, instead opting to ignore those requests. So, I'm stumped. Why is Malongo the most villainous of scum, but MZ gets passed over? Because you are probably right and MZ is scum but scumteam is trying to gloss over the fact. I noticed that most people in the thread are ignoring your accusations against him but doesn't look like MZ is going to get lynched today but I would certainly be down to talk about that tomorrow. It is suspicious indeed. This is my last post of the day so if anyone wants to know anything please donate me a post. | ||
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