|
On June 13 2013 08:45 GravityMan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:42 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 08:28 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 08:23 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:59 GravityMan wrote:
Axle, who do YOU think is scum?
We haven't had very many reads from you this game at all, just analysis and questions. There is the obvious list, of people who have not contributed much. There is the obvious list of turning Hapas list upside down and saying that. One thing i dont want to do is get all in a low post count townies face, and shut them down. So I wont be doing that. The least clear intention I have is you. I see what "looks" like a tendency to Lynch BH for being BH. I see posts that could well inflame him and make his ego come to the fore as town or scum. This could have been their intention, or not. Obvious lists? Do you trust those lists entirely? Why can't you just come out and call me scum? Am I the only scum in this game? Come on Axle. Something concrete please. No I don't trust those list entirely, which is why early on D1 I asked hapa about him giving out so many town reads and saying EZ. Hapa is town, he flipped town, but i still don't trust his list as he can be wrong. The language used was euphamism to do as stated and avoid getting in low post counters face. Grav man: Why can't you just come out and call me scum? I can. Thats the easy bit, trying to be right is harder. This time i dont understand you: "Come on Axle. Something concrete please." do you want more concrete reasoning and analysis for why i think your scum GM: "We haven't had very many reads from you this game at all, just analysis and questions." or do you want me to overexaggerate the degree of certainty that i have that your motivations in posting inflammatory things was so that BHs ego would get him to piss off enough people that you could mislynch him? The problem is there are towny reasons to push people as well. I need to work out if what you did was for those reasons. For the record, I wasn't trying to be inflammatory necessarily with those questions, I was trying just to see what I could get BH to say and talk about regarding that topic. You say that I'm trying to get BH mislynched though, what makes you sure he's town?
Um err.
Are you saying that your intention with the D1 post was to try and get BH to talk about that topic.
Also please state topic.
The number of questions, the nature of the questions, and the final sentence seem more likely to get BH to display
I said earlier.
So that post gets the thread to see Bh has ego etc. (he said to me back then he is talented guy...)
How does that interact with him beign scummy or town.
Walk me through how me knowing that lets me evaluate BH(with ego) and see that he got a scum Pm and not BH(with ego) got a town PM.
have you yet addressed the above?
"What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure."
I am unclear how discarding ego leaves the alternative of lying or why discarding ego would be needed to lie as scum.
Indeed "lying" seems somehow unrelated to he rest of the thoughts in the D1 post.
Walk me through how me knowing that lets me evaluate BH(with ego) and see that he got a scum Pm and not BH(with ego) got a town PM.
WoS: You say that I'm trying to get BH mislynched though, what makes you sure he's town?
I dont have to be sure hes town to find your behaviour does not ring true as trying to find out if BH is town or scum.
|
On June 12 2013 23:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
KILL GK.
KILL IT WITH FIRE.
He never talks about me, shiao pi/vayne/axle.
I wanna kill GK, and then BH if he continues being a useless sack of shit.
I didn't have time to read the game until last night, and by the time I was done and posted, like no one was around in thread... The reason I haven't really talked to you this game is you haven't provided any real case points for why I'm scum, or anyone else for that matter... You seem content to capslock and spam the word kill 2-3 times, which is entirely unhelpful and unproductive. If you truly believe I'm scum, make some casepoints so I have something to actually discuss with you.
I am here the next few hours, and it looks like people are actually in thread right now, so if you or anyone else have something to discuss I'm here.
|
WoS, in the future, don't mention any communication with the host that isn't 100% about the game, whether it's pre-game stuff or during the game. That's definitely in the grey area when it comes to rules, but I'll let it go.
It has nothing to do with the game apart from his smurfslip. If anyone wants to spend 30 seconds reading a boring story, please go ahead and pm me.
I don't want to hear about his joke with me again from anyone.
Thank you.
|
On June 13 2013 09:17 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 23:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
KILL GK.
KILL IT WITH FIRE.
He never talks about me, shiao pi/vayne/axle.
I wanna kill GK, and then BH if he continues being a useless sack of shit. I didn't have time to read the game until last night, and by the time I was done and posted, like no one was around in thread... The reason I haven't really talked to you this game is you haven't provided any real case points for why I'm scum, or anyone else for that matter... You seem content to capslock and spam the word kill 2-3 times, which is entirely unhelpful and unproductive. If you truly believe I'm scum, make some casepoints so I have something to actually discuss with you. I am here the next few hours, and it looks like people are actually in thread right now, so if you or anyone else have something to discuss I'm here.
Have you looked at what happened with the D1 voting and what do you make of it?
|
Sorry Corazon 
Axle, I answered you here.
On June 13 2013 08:10 GravityMan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:02 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286On June 11 2013 08:02 GravityMan wrote:On June 11 2013 08:00 Hapahauli wrote:
[quote]
[quote]
Like none of this has to do anything with scumhunting. BH thinks I'm town - why does it matter what his feelings about my play are? As I am not delving into past games to determine alignment, for players I may be having trouble understanding it suits me to attempt to figure out what each player is thinking, capable of, and even feeling in order to determine a specific mindset. If you find that irrelevant that is your prerogative, however I do not deem it so. One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. Snide = Sorry. Ok. it will take a little bit for me to get the stuff. but without links to where or what. So that post gets the thread to see Bh has ego etc. (he said to me back then he is talented guy...) How does that interact with him beign scummy or town. Walk me through how me knowing that lets me evaluate BH(with ego) and see that he got a scum Pm and not BH(with ego) got a town PM. Specifically, the section where he backs down from Hapa yet is belligerent towards Oats got me thinking about how in general he interacts with people. I believe I spoke about it last night---as scum he tends not to give people he thinks are beneath him the time of day. He does this as town as well, but when he's serious about hunting scum he will eventually interact with everyone in the thread in some form of a positive way. Essentially I was trying to display this without the ability to dive into BH's meta and prove this---again, Les Mafia is a good example--- and show that he can't act that way towards Hapa as Hapa is a very skilled town player and will not put up with his bullshit, yet will shit up the thread towards anyone else he can when he can get away with it. Without even using meta I can tell you that the way BH has been acting in this way towards people is not town-aligned in the slightest; the meta only makes it stronger when you can see that's how he acts in various games. I admit it's not exactly the clearest line of thought but I know it's true, I've played with BH a ton recently and feel that I've learned to read him well (despite me lying about it as GM). It doesn't mean much but I've said it before, if I was town in Les there is no way I would have voted to lynch him when he acted the way he did at the end of the game. He has not acted even a fraction as towny this game as he did in that one.
In fact, I have been nothing but forthcoming considering everything asked of me all game.
Has BH been as considerate?
I REALLY don't understand what is so hard for all of you to see here.
Oh and Axle, by definiton, you saying 'mislynched' means you think BH is town.
I want to know why you think he is town. It has nothing to do with what you want from me.
|
On June 12 2013 14:37 goodkarma wrote:
I finally read through everything. Here are my current thoughts.:
[.....delteia... ]
Regarding BH:
You seem to have a few people you'd like to have shot. But I'm having some trouble understanding your thought process... I see lots of shitslinging and dinner-eating, but very limited analysis...
I'd say your play here does resemble The Game in that you seem to be just going completely aggro on players with unproductive tunnels. I believe you even referenced this once or twice, like how you'd rather tunnel Hapa as scum or something. But I remember how you tunneled ThePeashooter in that game, and he was hardly a town leader or anything... Scum BH loves to shit up threads, and that's exactly what I see here.
I'm leaning scum on you. You proved to me last game you can play like complete shit as town, but the way you're playing this game is similar enough to your The Game scumgame I believe there's a decent chance you'll flip red.
Regarding Syl:
As far as more lurkerish players, there's Syl who's been sheepish this game to the exclusion of much of any analysis. He's flown completely under the radar, and if he shamelessly continues to do so I believe he'd be a decent vigishot.
Can you explain how these things show the scum motivation of the person involved.
|
On June 13 2013 09:35 GravityMan wrote:Sorry Corazon Axle, I answered you here. Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:10 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 08:02 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286On June 11 2013 08:02 GravityMan wrote:
[quote]
As I am not delving into past games to determine alignment, for players I may be having trouble understanding it suits me to attempt to figure out what each player is thinking, capable of, and even feeling in order to determine a specific mindset.
If you find that irrelevant that is your prerogative, however I do not deem it so. One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. Snide = Sorry. Ok. it will take a little bit for me to get the stuff. but without links to where or what. So that post gets the thread to see Bh has ego etc. (he said to me back then he is talented guy...) How does that interact with him beign scummy or town. Walk me through how me knowing that lets me evaluate BH(with ego) and see that he got a scum Pm and not BH(with ego) got a town PM. Specifically, the section where he backs down from Hapa yet is belligerent towards Oats got me thinking about how in general he interacts with people. I believe I spoke about it last night---as scum he tends not to give people he thinks are beneath him the time of day. He does this as town as well, but when he's serious about hunting scum he will eventually interact with everyone in the thread in some form of a positive way. Essentially I was trying to display this without the ability to dive into BH's meta and prove this---again, Les Mafia is a good example--- and show that he can't act that way towards Hapa as Hapa is a very skilled town player and will not put up with his bullshit, yet will shit up the thread towards anyone else he can when he can get away with it. Without even using meta I can tell you that the way BH has been acting in this way towards people is not town-aligned in the slightest; the meta only makes it stronger when you can see that's how he acts in various games. I admit it's not exactly the clearest line of thought but I know it's true, I've played with BH a ton recently and feel that I've learned to read him well (despite me lying about it as GM). It doesn't mean much but I've said it before, if I was town in Les there is no way I would have voted to lynch him when he acted the way he did at the end of the game. He has not acted even a fraction as towny this game as he did in that one. In fact, I have been nothing but forthcoming considering everything asked of me all game. Has BH been as considerate? I REALLY don't understand what is so hard for all of you to see here. Oh and Axle, by definiton, you saying 'mislynched' means you think BH is town. I want to know why you think he is town. It has nothing to do with what you want from me.
I think I prefer to do what you wanted me to do a little while ago.
On June 13 2013 08:13 GravityMan wrote:
Axle can you answer my question?
You've been doing too much analysis and questioning and not offering enough in terms of reads and stances taken.
Who is scum and why?
|
On June 13 2013 09:45 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 09:35 GravityMan wrote:Sorry Corazon Axle, I answered you here. On June 13 2013 08:10 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 08:02 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286[quote] One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. Snide = Sorry. Ok. it will take a little bit for me to get the stuff. but without links to where or what. So that post gets the thread to see Bh has ego etc. (he said to me back then he is talented guy...) How does that interact with him beign scummy or town. Walk me through how me knowing that lets me evaluate BH(with ego) and see that he got a scum Pm and not BH(with ego) got a town PM. Specifically, the section where he backs down from Hapa yet is belligerent towards Oats got me thinking about how in general he interacts with people. I believe I spoke about it last night---as scum he tends not to give people he thinks are beneath him the time of day. He does this as town as well, but when he's serious about hunting scum he will eventually interact with everyone in the thread in some form of a positive way. Essentially I was trying to display this without the ability to dive into BH's meta and prove this---again, Les Mafia is a good example--- and show that he can't act that way towards Hapa as Hapa is a very skilled town player and will not put up with his bullshit, yet will shit up the thread towards anyone else he can when he can get away with it. Without even using meta I can tell you that the way BH has been acting in this way towards people is not town-aligned in the slightest; the meta only makes it stronger when you can see that's how he acts in various games. I admit it's not exactly the clearest line of thought but I know it's true, I've played with BH a ton recently and feel that I've learned to read him well (despite me lying about it as GM). It doesn't mean much but I've said it before, if I was town in Les there is no way I would have voted to lynch him when he acted the way he did at the end of the game. He has not acted even a fraction as towny this game as he did in that one. In fact, I have been nothing but forthcoming considering everything asked of me all game. Has BH been as considerate? I REALLY don't understand what is so hard for all of you to see here. Oh and Axle, by definiton, you saying 'mislynched' means you think BH is town. I want to know why you think he is town. It has nothing to do with what you want from me. I think I prefer to do what you wanted me to do a little while ago. Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:13 GravityMan wrote:
Axle can you answer my question?
You've been doing too much analysis and questioning and not offering enough in terms of reads and stances taken.
Who is scum and why?
I'm fine with either for now, but I will not be letting this go. I have seen nothing remotely towny about BH's play right now and that fact that you see as such or are making a preflip association based on the fact that you think I'm scum is not good.
|
On June 13 2013 09:33 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 09:17 goodkarma wrote:On June 12 2013 23:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
KILL GK.
KILL IT WITH FIRE.
He never talks about me, shiao pi/vayne/axle.
I wanna kill GK, and then BH if he continues being a useless sack of shit. I didn't have time to read the game until last night, and by the time I was done and posted, like no one was around in thread... The reason I haven't really talked to you this game is you haven't provided any real case points for why I'm scum, or anyone else for that matter... You seem content to capslock and spam the word kill 2-3 times, which is entirely unhelpful and unproductive. If you truly believe I'm scum, make some casepoints so I have something to actually discuss with you. I am here the next few hours, and it looks like people are actually in thread right now, so if you or anyone else have something to discuss I'm here. Have you looked at what happened with the D1 voting and what do you make of it?
There's very little to make of the day one voting... There was no real controversy. Jampi was just mislynched... The only situations where you'd get any meaningful information out of a day one lynch arise when there's in fact two candidates and one's scum...
And as for scum motivations, I believe I already explained that in detail in the quote you've presented, as well as in my followup to Syl...
|
So who is your other scumread GK?
|
You have 6 posts GK.....
And I already said why your first post was scummy, and then you come back in the thread and say that all town should have 2 reads bla bla.
Why are you shitting on town and not being useful?
Do you still think BH is scum?
Why is syl scum and not stutters?
GK's attitude towards me is that Im town. Do you think Im town GK?
|
On June 13 2013 01:33 Blazinghand wrote:
Oats if you want to make a meta case on me, reference specific games and show how what i'm doing is to my scum meta. Show that it's red and not orange on the venn diagram. I play a lot of different ways as town, and a lot of different ways as scum, but it's still possible to read my meta. you can't just say "this bh seems scummy" without evidence. There hasn't yet been a real meta case against me this game, and there won't ever be one, because I'm not scum. But I welcome you to try to make one, just so you realize i'm town.
Why are you relying so heavily on your meta in your defense? If you're town, why not play to help us rather than resort to some kind of half-assed defense like this?
You yourself have stated that you are a bit of an adoptive player (in that you are fully capable of changing up your playstyle...), so how can we completely trust your meta in the first place? If we set meta aside, you've been objectively scummy all game. And if we include meta, I've already discussed how your play here was similar to The Game. You still either are defending yourself or shitting up thread. I have yet to see a single real case from you. You don't have the excuse that you were busy like you might have in Les. You've been quite actively doing nothing all game. I would fully expect that town BH would have presented something of value by now... Instead we have a guy that's shitting up the thread with meaningless tunnels, joke posts, and demonstrating an active interest in defending himself while contributing nothing. This is exactly the kind of thing I'd expect from scum BH.
##Vote: BH
|
On June 13 2013 09:50 GravityMan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 09:45 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 09:35 GravityMan wrote:Sorry Corazon Axle, I answered you here. On June 13 2013 08:10 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 08:02 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:
[quote]
Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. Snide = Sorry. Ok. it will take a little bit for me to get the stuff. but without links to where or what. So that post gets the thread to see Bh has ego etc. (he said to me back then he is talented guy...) How does that interact with him beign scummy or town. Walk me through how me knowing that lets me evaluate BH(with ego) and see that he got a scum Pm and not BH(with ego) got a town PM. Specifically, the section where he backs down from Hapa yet is belligerent towards Oats got me thinking about how in general he interacts with people. I believe I spoke about it last night---as scum he tends not to give people he thinks are beneath him the time of day. He does this as town as well, but when he's serious about hunting scum he will eventually interact with everyone in the thread in some form of a positive way. Essentially I was trying to display this without the ability to dive into BH's meta and prove this---again, Les Mafia is a good example--- and show that he can't act that way towards Hapa as Hapa is a very skilled town player and will not put up with his bullshit, yet will shit up the thread towards anyone else he can when he can get away with it. Without even using meta I can tell you that the way BH has been acting in this way towards people is not town-aligned in the slightest; the meta only makes it stronger when you can see that's how he acts in various games. I admit it's not exactly the clearest line of thought but I know it's true, I've played with BH a ton recently and feel that I've learned to read him well (despite me lying about it as GM). It doesn't mean much but I've said it before, if I was town in Les there is no way I would have voted to lynch him when he acted the way he did at the end of the game. He has not acted even a fraction as towny this game as he did in that one. In fact, I have been nothing but forthcoming considering everything asked of me all game. Has BH been as considerate? I REALLY don't understand what is so hard for all of you to see here. Oh and Axle, by definiton, you saying 'mislynched' means you think BH is town. I want to know why you think he is town. It has nothing to do with what you want from me. I think I prefer to do what you wanted me to do a little while ago. On June 13 2013 08:13 GravityMan wrote:
Axle can you answer my question?
You've been doing too much analysis and questioning and not offering enough in terms of reads and stances taken.
Who is scum and why?
I'm fine with either for now, but I will not be letting this go. I have seen nothing remotely towny about BH's play right now and that fact that you see as such or are making a preflip association based on the fact that you think I'm scum is not good.
My views are not preflip association based.
They are also not 100%, but I would need to either see more or understand the cases against him better before i'd lynch today.
yeah he went all "dinner" "dinner" and hapa fake shot him... and he and oats are being he and oats.
What I dont yet see is the scum agenda and intention.
|
On June 13 2013 10:01 Oatsmaster wrote:
So who is your other scumread GK?
oats are you here for little bit there is something i want to clear up.
(BTW no this isnt going to be like our first game, where i wanted chat)
|
yes yes im here.
and no GK,
SHOW ME where his play is similar.
|
On June 13 2013 10:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
yes yes im here.
and no GK,
SHOW ME where his play is similar.
This post of yours.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18863859
"I love syls filter.
LOOOVE."
"Why? Cause he says a lotta sensible things."
"Just read his filter and form a conclusion, I dont like explaining town reads. "
This was sarcasm? or real? sorry cant tell.
|
at that point, it was real.
|
On June 13 2013 10:32 Oatsmaster wrote:
at that point, it was real.
Sorry reads like sarcasm in my head. just be a sec i think I know what chnaged your mind then.
|
KK.
What do you think of GK?
|
@Oats
Was it this
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18865624
On June 12 2013 01:11 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why syl.
Whyyyy.
Whos scum?
in reply to this
+ Show Spoiler +On June 12 2013 00:38 Sylencia wrote:
Alright, clarification statement here:
Here is what I meant about erratic behaviour:
- BH starts out the game lurker style but then comes out guns blazing against Oats in a flamefest war which I frankly don't understand the point of. Neither of them really got their point to each other.
- Hapa attacks Vayne then goes 'nah all cool' and moves on like nothing happened. Vayne is pretty much confirmed town at this point, but at the time when it happened I had no idea what to make of it.
- Stutter's lurkiness is similar to LXI, hard to make out anything from it - this is probably the most normal thing about this town during D1.
- Vayne goes scum style posting into blue claim, weirdest play to date (I missed the hints, but apparently everyone did)
- Axle is actually making sense for once, which is the weirdest thing unless I haven't played with him long enough for him to be more normal like this?
- I don't think I've played a game with Hapa before, but he's probably the most level headed player in this group from what I've seen.
None of this actually really helps in the end with scumhunting, but it just threw me off guard to see these changes. For tonight, about the potential shot, probably best not to use it if you're not sure Hapa. If things go wrong and we're looking at an SK or something in the mix, town numbers could be at an all time low in just 1 day/night cycle.
Which is pretty why why why
didnt Syl quote My post that specifically asked Syl for that information....
+ Show Spoiler +On June 11 2013 15:21 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 09:25 Sylencia wrote:Ok... day 1 claim is unfortunate  ##unvote is the obvious first move GravityMan: On June 11 2013 01:14 GravityMan wrote:
Sylencia.
Hello. If you are not currently otherwise occupied, I have some queries for you that I feel would help me gain a better understand of you. If you would answer them I would be greatly pleased.
Do you have any reads on scum other than this VayneAuthority?
What do you make of the altercation between the Oatsmaster and this Blazinghand?
You mention that you are often lynched early in other games. Why is this? 1) No, not really, everyone is acting really erratically this game and it's making things kind of difficult to work out. 2) That argument was actually rather annoying - flamefests just spam up the thread uselessly and demoralises the town side most of the time. I don't even feel like there was anything productive that came from it... 3) Lurkerish, lynchbait, scum jump on my weak cases etc. etc. Unless Jampi shows up soon (he said he would be here around now right?), I'm going to put a vote on him going mostly on Hapa's reasoning. ##vote Jampi Syl said: 1) No, not really, everyone is acting really erratically this game and it's making things kind of difficult to work out. please clarify the meaning of the word erratically, in what sense are what people behaving erratically. id suggest choosing one or more, person or period in the thread, as an example. Was it only the BH oats thing id prefer another example as you said everyone. They dont have to be scum indicative. The problem is normally I read your posts and they make sense to me, that bit does not.
My question was ways back so it would be real easy to miss.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
