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On June 10 2013 18:19 Blazinghand wrote:Oh, absolutely. As scum if you can exclusively inhabit the orange zone you will highly successful. While you're here, i was wondering if you could update your reasoning for voting Oats beyond what you initially said (link). Weighing in on what I said specifically would also be nice.
Did I answer you yet?
Weighing in on which bit of what you said with oats.
I think I addressed the central thesis, which is how do I see that read of hapa, and what if anything does it imply about you?
I imagine knowing what is important is important.
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On June 10 2013 19:21 AxleGreaser wrote:
one problem is I already had views on Hapas towniness. They colour everything I see,
so if at some point in the analysis I try and guess is it reasonable for someone else to either
see or not see what I do it gets messy fast.
[...]
Re Oats:
Thats harder. As i understand it he though hapa as as towny as i do and ....
problem: I cant work out what hes thinking. Normally when hes scum he is thinking.
So IDK in some cack handed way that it makes no sense means ...
I will try some more...
Apparently I couldnt work out what i was thinking either.
Ok: oats exchange with you did not feel scum to me ....
I am missing an ingredient.
you say:
Here you conclude:
BH: I don't see a town perspective that leads to this. I don't see it at all.
See the struck out bit from a previous post of mine. you wont find a town perspective in those words either. I had brain fart.
Can you show what scum plan oats had in that interaction with you?
Was he scum trying to get you lynched? Would oats try that?
Was he scum trying to see if he could throw some mud look busy and leave.
near as i can tell he got hold the idea in this post
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18853635
and didnt let go.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
I was asked of credentials for my campaign, let's add some now that there is some real competition for it:
I believe myself to be a decent scumhunter (as long as I do manage to scratch time together to decently play mafia), see the endgame of LVII, where I got the entire scumteam but lost due to getting NK'ed before lylo and remaining town goiing retard. Also GSL Mini mafia II (just ignore my brainfart at lylo in that one).
While it certainly is not as good as Hapa's record, I believe it to be quite decent enough for being mayor.
Furthermore I am pretty easy to read, can't remember the last time I got mislynched, maybe in one of my newbies? Not so sure, been a while.
VOTE ME FOR MAYOR!
I of course want to also comment on why I am a better choice than GravityMan and hapa who are also running for mayor.
Let's start with GravityMan:
He is a smurf (at least I assume so from his posts til now). Generally it is not really a problem to have smurfs in a game since one should mainly judge on the current game and only take meta as supporting evidence. But in case of mayoring I think it important to have credentials on which you can judge the candidate, being a smurf Gravityman obviously lacks said credentials besides words. Now onto the actions of him ingame right now.
His interactions so far have been mainly with Hapa in regards to mayoring and some prodding of various people. While I have not done much more than that (thus far), it does not ring me as being really convincing of being a great scumhunter with clear and transparent reads and high activity level as he promised in his campaign post.
Now on Hapa's candidacy: Generally speaking I am kind of okayish with him being mayor, since I am having a townread on him at the moment and he is for sure a strong townplayer. What worries me is more the trade off we get. Hapa should be a high-priority target for scum anyway, him being mayor only reinforces the need for them to kill him off early.
So I am thinking that you should consider mayoring me. I can act like a meat shield/another target to hit and I am probably more expendable than hapa in the long run, so it gives us more chances as scum has to consider hitting mayor for the reduction of power roles or hapa to get rid of a good townplayer. That is of course in case mayor does not get any protective power (vet or sth. similar)
Now for some scumhunting:
VayneAuthority:
He is currently my main read for scum, let me explain:
Vayne enters the game with a throwaway vote on a campaign which is not serious at all.
I ask him for reasons and he states that he wants to start up discussion. All in all that is a good (read as townie) intention. But compare his intention with his actual posts:
+ Show Spoiler +On June 09 2013 15:01 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 14:57 ShiaoPi wrote:On June 09 2013 14:56 VayneAuthority wrote:
not running for mayor
##vote mayor: Sylencia why? to generate discussion, I want to see who the stragglers vote for On June 09 2013 15:03 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:02 ShiaoPi wrote:
So the generate discussion...
Why not vote for yourself then? Why sylencia especially? he is your competition, I have no interest in running for mayor On June 09 2013 15:10 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 15:05 ShiaoPi wrote:On June 09 2013 15:03 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 09 2013 15:02 ShiaoPi wrote:
So the generate discussion...
Why not vote for yourself then? Why sylencia especially? he is your competition, I have no interest in running for mayor I doubt that he is really running at all. Has not voted himself even. Why sylencia over for example axle who voted himself? Don't really trust axle
Does that look like promoting discussion? Hell no, he gives me one-liners with no real content behind them. It just looks more like trying to stifle discussion in its tracks by not properly responding.
He gets called out by Axle, Oats and Hapa on this matter. His response is to omgus Oats and some really really bad amount of passive-aggressiveness:
On June 10 2013 01:45 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 01:41 Oatsmaster wrote:
Exactly Vayne.
You voted for syl JUST to rock the boat. No other reason.
Because it makes you look like you are not a sheep.
My points stand, you care about appearances more than actually voting for a town mayor/lynching scum today.
Why am I scum? Why does me calling you scum over the Syl vote make me scum? What else makes me scum.
Why dont you want to make a read on Shiao? What does not playing with him before mean you cant read him? seriously you are just ignoring how I play and making an excuse to lynch me, I see no other motive in your play. Its obvious as hell, then when I flip green you just fly under the radar fitting in with the crowd. You aren't gonna pull a fast one on me so give it up. I don't want to make a read on shaio because I have no read on him l0l
Oats questions in this case are legitimate and he does not even respond to them, he straight out ignores it and just goes damn oats why you so scummy, stop it!
But if oats is scum, why not follow up on him? Why not vote him and make a case on him? vayne does nothing of that, he just stays non-committal and then jumps on the mayor wagon of hapa without much reasoning. What happened to going against the flow and promoting discussion? Oh this:
On June 10 2013 12:48 VayneAuthority wrote:
I can't reveal everything about my play or scum will be able to hide too easily, let's just say it has a purpose though
Yeah of course everything has a purpose, it just smells like unwilling to "reveal" his secret tactics because there are none and he is just jumping around.
On another note, when Oats questioned him Vayne also responds like this: Stop ignoring my playstyle, I am always playing like this!
Weak as shit.
Now you might ask, but would scum so willingly attract scrutiny of town by entering the thread like he did and playing like he did? If we head down that road it is just wifom, so I like to work with what I can see and I am seeing scummy behavior from him and fuck it scum can do stupid acts just as much as town does.
##vote: VayneAuthority
Let me quickly note on the BH/Oats exchange as well:
I am not sure how serious BH is with trying to lynch Oats as he has not posted his vote in the voting thread but, don't lynch oats out of the fucking same reasons he got mislynched in LXI. The entirety of their exchange reads much more like a clash of big ego townies than scum in either of them.
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Hey just posting here out of respect to you guys. As I said before the game started I was going to be super busy on the weekend, and have been. I had an exam today and have more exams in the coming fortnight. I shouldn't have started the game in the first place. I asked for a replacement 12 hours ago. So hopefully one of the hosts have got my PM.
GLHF and really sorry about this.
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DP will be replaced soon. We are both working on finding replacements.
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BH wants to lynch me cause I cant see that Hapa is town. Oh joy.
My point about hapa being about to do the 3p read as both alignments and the fact that you and hapa cannot be scum together does not make me scum.
Thats your main point is seems. Like the fact that you cannot understand how I have 2 conflicting scum reads.
As it stands currently, idiot BH = town BH, scum BH wont do something that will cause much discussion in the thread I feel.
He will just obscure shit like in THE GAME, or ego it about. He hasnt really been doing it this game.
So
##Unvote
##Vote: Hapa for lynch
##Vote: Shiao Pi for mayor
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
@Oats:
I can understand your desire to not trust hapa straight off the bat, but are you seriously that much convinced that he is scum?
From what I gather from your posts your main issue with him seems to be his case on jampi and his sudden desire to run for mayor, am I correct?
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On June 10 2013 23:28 ShiaoPi wrote:
@Oats:
I can understand your desire to not trust hapa straight off the bat, but are you seriously that much convinced that he is scum?
From what I gather from your posts your main issue with him seems to be his case on jampi and his sudden desire to run for mayor, am I correct?
And the fact that he KEEPS saying that he is town, check his meta, bla bla.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
If somebody keeps saying he is town, it is pretty much a nulltell to me. From what I remember about Hapa his meta fits pretty well with town-hapa.
I can see where you are coming from criticizing hapas case on jampi as I am not entirely convinced by that either but the beginning from which hapa argues is solid. The timewindow in jampis switch is rather narrow and valids the scrutiny hapa gave it. I don't see any major scum tells in his play.
What about my case on vayne?
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yeah its a good case that I will sheep if hapa lynch doesnt happen.
Although, I would like BH's thought on it.
Considering he played with scum Vayne a game before.
About Jampi, he explained it as he thought Hapa's reason for shiao pi being town is valid.
I currently think its genuine, and that Jampi's suspicion was not really suspicion, it was just him wondering what made Shiao pi so town.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
Yes I would like to get some more input from others as well.
On Jampi I also think it is genuine, which is why I dont buy hapas case
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On June 10 2013 23:29 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 23:28 ShiaoPi wrote:
@Oats:
I can understand your desire to not trust hapa straight off the bat, but are you seriously that much convinced that he is scum?
From what I gather from your posts your main issue with him seems to be his case on jampi and his sudden desire to run for mayor, am I correct? And the fact that he KEEPS saying that he is town, check his meta, bla bla.
I don't think it's a tell when people do that - I tried calling rayn out in LXI for that and he was town in the end iirc.
I'm more up for lynching Vayne today though - his apparent reasoning for his weird posts, which is for survival (but in a sense that the posts are scummy enough that scum have a reason to keep him alive) is a pretty weak reason and having some sort of hidden agenda behind his play? If he had a hidden agenda, why would be tell us so? If it's something to use in the future to find scum, well now they're more wary and more likely to target Vayne, which is the exact opposite of what he wanted to do (survive).
##Vote Vayne
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I don't think it's a tell when people do that - I tried calling rayn out in LXI for that and he was town in the end iirc.
I dont remember hapa saying it in the other games Ive played with him.
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I can get behind a Vayne lynch. In his two latest posts, he first states that he is not trying to hide anything, but in the second he hides his reasoning even when someone asked for them. Dafug? It might not necessarily mean that he is scum, but do you think you can read him? I know I can't.
##Vote: VayneAuthority
I'll be gone, but will back about one hour before the deadline.
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read on hapa since he called you scum Jampi?
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I'm catching up soon once I slow down at work.
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There was one thing I wished to note before I powered down for the evening, however the time simply escaped me.
As such I will bring it to thread currently along with updated reads considering much conversation has happened in the time that I have been absent, albeit simply between two fairly hard-headed individuals.
ShiaoPi brings up that he thinks this VayneAuthority does not look so good to him. I will admit while he did readily answer many of my questions, I not did not feel satisfied with our discussion because, unlike my back-and-forth with this Hapahauli, it was very much one-sided in that it did not seem as though this VayneAuthority was interested in divining my alignment whatsoever.
Specifically I made a point of noting his final response to me:
On June 10 2013 12:48 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 10 2013 12:29 GravityMan wrote:On June 10 2013 12:02 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 10 2013 11:55 GravityMan wrote:On June 10 2013 11:43 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 10 2013 11:40 GravityMan wrote:On June 10 2013 11:37 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 10 2013 11:32 GravityMan wrote:On June 10 2013 11:10 Hapahauli wrote:EBWOP This reads to me like Didn't finish this. Your statement here... I don't want you to be elected mayor for the reasons stated in my original post as well as those above. I simply cannot base the candidacy on reads of past games. There has not been enough activity offered by anyone in the thread thus far to feel confident in anyone's scum-hunting ability but my own. Reads to me like a huge cop-out. Your entire candidacy so far has been based on a) words and b) because you claim you're town and c) you're a japanese robot. You are entirely correct in your assessment of myself in that I have not provided sufficient means to make you or the rest of town trust me through my actions. Do remember, however, that once again the day is but half over and I have only posted a handful of times. I hope to make it fairly obvious as both time and space progress. To answer one of your queries before I progress to the answers you provided; I prefer not to bases my analyses and reads on the previous actions of other players. It is an unnecessary strain on my capacitors and have minimal space left in my memory banks. Now you have actually gone some way in determining your capacity to me as a potential mayoral candidate; certainly much more than this ShiaoPi. I still hesitate to remove my vite from myself but know that I am not yet locked in, and should it be made clear to me that someone's abilities are superior to my own then I will gladly vote accordingly. Your townread of this jampidampi was confusing me I must admit, because there was very little I could glean from his filter that seemed to be specifically aligned towards the town. Of course the time-post scenario you have outlined is what stood out to me the most and I didn't understand why you were so quick to acknowledge his defense. Your second point regarding his questioning appears valid, yet again his activity level leaves it difficult to reach a strong conclusion. I would agree with you in that this jampidampi would be my strongest read into the scumplayers for today thus far, and yet this is relatively speaking (as I must), so I cannot give it a great deal of weight yet. I have much to expect from this DarthPunk so I eagerly await his arrival to the thread. Now as you have correctly mentioned, I have not had the chance to do a great deal of hunting myself, thus I begin: VayneAuthority: you mention early on in the game you do not trust this AxleGreaser. May I inquire as to why? On June 10 2013 06:29 VayneAuthority wrote:
remember that this is semi-closed setup so we dont even know if theres a medic or anything. Getting voted as mayor is pretty much a death sentence and I think BH sees it the same way I do. Don't want a fucking target on my back to start the game. You also mention that you do not want a target on your back, yet the way you currently post you clearly do not mind attracting attention to yourself, not unlike the attraction of two gravitational bodies. This appears contradictory. Can you comment please? there's no contradiction here. Posting like this makes scum keep me alive so I can continue playing the game, while being mayor would make them want to kill me more. also not that I think axlegreaser is scum, I meant more that I do not trust him to be mayor as I can't understand half his posts so it wouldn't be in my best interest. So you feel that attracting seemingly negative attention to yourself you are then doing the town a service by distracting them from more appropriatel targets at hand (assuming you are town)? Why do you feel the need to survive well into the game? Do you join games with the intent of not being able to play it? Obviously to enjoy the game. Bit of a weird question. If you got N1'ed every game it wouldn't be very fun would it To be sure. But also to be sure is that someone inevitably must die on the first night. Do you envision yourself a strong mafia player in general, one that the scum are likely to target on the first night if you play to your full capacity? Forgive me if I am being presumptuous but I find it disconcerting that one would purposefully handicap their own strong play and purposefully not help the town so that they may survive to a point in the game where it may become more difficult to win. Nope not really, I am better at scum than town. I'm not trying to hide anything, it's just how I play If it is just the way you play, I am unsure as to why you would feel that scum are likely to kill you on the first night. Thank you for answering my queries, however. I have one final question for you. You vote for this Hapahauli as it seems to be the direction the majority of active town are heading at the moment. I take it this means you are finished trying to create conversation by going against the general sentiment? I can't reveal everything about my play or scum will be able to hide too easily, let's just say it has a purpose though
This strikes me as something I absolutely must hold him to otherwise he simply escapes the conversation with no details revealed.
Related to this is the answer given to me by this Blazinghand regarding his top mayoral candidates. He goes into great detail explaining his regard for this Hapahauli and his seemingly monstrous ego belies what he thinks of himself, which is acceptable, though I do not feel the same earnestness when he speaks of this VayneAuthority.
As for VA, I have been nothing but impressed by his play that I've seen. He's been a capable scumhunter, and he utterly hoodwinked me in Les Mafia. Whereas most of the player list is cluttered with jubjubs and followers (if you're reading this, I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about the other guys), VA is smart. He's not a veteran in terms of games played but for his excellent play in my interactions with him I consider him a vet. That being said, the guy DID utterly hoodwink me, which means the fact that I have a townread on him is meaningless. I can't catch him when he's scum-- or at least, not yet. Anyone that good I'd keep an eye on-- but if he's town, he can use the power wisely. Given my strong townread on hapa though I see no reason to entrust VA with the power.
He brings up a past in game in which he was impressed by this VayneAuthority's play as a man of the scum variety, yet nebulously brings up the interactions he has with the man regarding his town play and his scumhunting. I have not seen anything this game that shows this as evident, therefore I must believe he is impressed with VayneAuthroity's play from past games, yet why not reference these and only the scum game? It is also curious that right at the end of this paragraph he seems to back up on the strength of his lauding of this VayneAuthority saying he sees to no reason to entrust him with the mayoral candidacy...could this be because he also realizes right here that his scum game is what is most to be feared from the man and not the strength of his town game?
I also personally have not seen anything from this VayneAuthority this game that shows him to be a strong town player; he himself admits to me that he is a much better scum player than town player and plays the way he does simply to survive. I do not regard this as strong town play, yet this Blazinghand does, for unknown reasons.
I am curious as to what other active members of the thread think on this VayneAuthority.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Unrelated to the above, I was impressed with this AxleGreaser's attempt to read into both me and the other active members of this game; it appears a genuine venture to gain an understand of what we are all about, a decidedly town-aligned trait.
I would like to hear more in general from this jampidampi as I am not entirely sure he is my strongest read into the scum faction any longer.
The interaction between the master of Oats and this Blazinghand is difficult for me to process. I must spend more time on it.
This ShiaoPi's triumphant return to the thread excited me and had my circuits buzzing. I would like to hear more from him like we have all just seen, and seeing him on the attack gave me newfound trust in Hapahauli's earlier words that this ShiaoPi is a strong player in his own right.
It seems as though people are mistrustful of me because I am but a mechanical man and a stranger to their comfortable ideals of what a mayor should be. As such I withdraw my name from the candidacy and only hope that we will be making the right decision in but a few hours.
##Mayor Unvote
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im going to sleep.
No one wants to even post a read on hapa, Im sad  .
##Unvote: Hapa for lynch
##Vote: Vayne
What I wanna see when I come back is,
Hapa making a new case on Jampi or backing down.
Hapa explaining why he suddenly wanted to become mayor.
Hapa giving a read on BH.
BH giving a read on Vayne in response to Shiao Pi's case.
Vayne responding to Shiao Pi's case.
I think thats about it.
GL, dont be retarded town please. PLEASE.
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O master of Oats, I do believe that the explanation as to why Hapahauli suddenly wanted to become mayor was given to me; you may want to read the conversation that occurred last night.
As he is l'homme du jour, however I certainly would not mind if he returned to continue his campaign to oust the scum from this game.
Sylencia.
Hello. If you are not currently otherwise occupied, I have some queries for you that I feel would help me gain a better understand of you. If you would answer them I would be greatly pleased.
Do you have any reads on scum other than this VayneAuthority?
What do you make of the altercation between the Oatsmaster and this Blazinghand?
You mention that you are often lynched early in other games. Why is this?
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When is the deadline for this game? I may have to last second run for mayor. how many hours do i have
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EPT
