EPTWhy do people beat their kids... - Page 4
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AmorphousPhoenix
107 Posts
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28503 Posts
On May 28 2013 05:59 Xenocide_Knight wrote: So how many of you were actually beat as children? Because these are all ridiculously broad statements that can be easily challenged. For instance, Zoler's quote especially is comically ignorant and close-minded. PanN's post was "All parents who hit their children are cowards" from which you have to come to the conclusion "99% of all parents in asia are cowards" and because the majority of people end up being parents, "the majority of asians are cowards". Or Liquid Drone's post somehow comes to the conclusion that "because a child was hit, therefore the child learned that hitting others is ok". I was always hit as a child and pretty much the biggest lesson ingrained in my head was "it is under no circumstance ok for me to hit anyone else. Only parents can hit only their own children." I never saw my parents hit anyone or even anything other than me. Even my younger sister was never hit. So i learned "don't hit girls", "don't hit young children", and "as the eldest male, my punishments must be stricter as I have much greater responsibility". that is hilarious how you quote me, say I'm wrong, and confirm that I'm right all in the same post. you're gonna hit your children in the future. it's a direct consequence of your parents hitting you and you thinking you turned out alright. I fully beleive that you probably turned out in most ways, except one; you believe hitting children is okay. and, this is _the_ extra knowledge corporeal punishment installed in you as opposed to just being talked to. Another important piece ; if you hit your kids, they are going to be much more prone to disobeying people who do NOT excert physical power over them - for example their teachers, who lack that power. whereas people who are disciplined by words, are going to get the psychological response of being disciplined when their future teachers do it. and btw to directly answer your question; my mom once hit me once when I was 3 or 4. supposedly I had deliberately been pushing her buttons for a prolonged period of time and essentially just tried to piss her off as much as I could. after she hit me, I told her "hitting people is wrong!" (as this was knowledge previously installed in me. ) she felt terrible about it. | ||
micronesia
United States24484 Posts
On May 29 2013 04:10 Liquid`Drone wrote: and btw to directly answer your question; my mom once hit me once when I was 3 or 4. supposedly I had deliberately been pushing her buttons for a prolonged period of time and essentially just tried to piss her off as much as I could. after she hit me, I told her "hitting people is wrong!" (as this was knowledge previously installed in me. ) she felt terrible about it. Given what you know, how do you think she should have handled it? Hitting you very possibly may not have been the right way to go about it, but what would have been the most effective way for her to deal with you at that particular time? | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28503 Posts
here's actually the thing; knowing myself, and knowing how I responded to her, it is very possible that I just would not have quit until she hit me. The fact that I immediately said "hitting is wrong" after she hit me, makes me believe that I wanted her to hit me just to prove her lack of consistency - that's a type of behavior very consistent with my behavior through well, my entire life. this is perfectly normal for children in this phase of their mental development anyway; they start to not simply accept every bit of information they are told, but they question it. for me, perhaps I thought that there should be exceptions to the rule of not hitting people - yet my mom had insisted that no such exceptions existed. so after a sufficient amount of provocation, she did hit me. and, through the rest of my adolesence, I myself would hit people if provoked sufficiently. and this is my entire point. hitting is a _quick_ way of excerting punishment, and it is absolutely likely to make the child abandon his or her current disliked activity. but it also teaches the child the lesson that they can hit others if they find themselves in a similar scenario as you as an adult just found yourself in. this is the entire principle behind parenting; your children will mimic your behavior more so than your words. this is absolutely indisputable. people who are hit once as children are more likely to hit others than people who are hit 0 times. people who are hit 5 times are more likely to hit others than people who are hit once. people who are abused are much more likely to abuse others than people who are not abused. yes, if you're hit once, it's most likely not going to traumatize you. and, maybe you actually believe that people should retaliate with violence if they think the situation warrants it. but you cannot pretend like hitting your child, even once, is not going to have any type of consequence regarding their own willingness to use violence in the future. because it will. this is absolutely indisputable. And personally, if someone is much more powerful than me and I am misbehaving in their point of view, I would rather have them just.. restrain me until I calm down, than to have them punch me. and as a consequence, I am morally obliged to find a different method than hitting when I myself have children, because through hitting I will personally contribute to prolonging the wholly unneccessary circle of violence which has plagued humanity ever since our species appeared on earth, and which plagued our ancestors before we were even human. to be clear, I obviously bear no ill will towards my mom for this incident. she's been a fantastic mom and she's one of the least violent people I've ever encountered. I absolutely believe that for her to have hit me, I must have done a fantastic job being a complete assclown. and I think she probably hardly used any force at all. and maybe she was really busy, and just didn't have time for me to calm down properly. people are not perfect. I'm actually completely fine with her behavior in this particular scenario, what I am not fine with, is people being so hell-bent on hitting their children that they attempt to theorize and defend why hitting their children is a good thing. it's not. never do it. maybe you lose control of yourself once and do it anyway, and that's not the end of the world. but don't enter parenthood with the belief that yea, I'll totally hit my kid when he steps out of line. by even having this train of thought, you are somehow capable of being a bad parent without even having children. | ||
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CecilSunkure
United States2829 Posts
I recall doing something wrong as a kid, and never ever did it again after being spanked by my father. I just had a few slaps on the but, so it's totally not abuse. I was pretty young so it's not like I thought it was weird. I was just really embarrassed and it hurt. Because of that one experience of being spanked I don't think there's any problem with spanking itself. My parents weren't angry when it happened, there was no abuse really at all going on. Like I said, I just felt a distinction should be made; not all forms of physical reprimands are bad, even if many are. | ||
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micronesia
United States24484 Posts
On May 29 2013 04:46 Liquid`Drone wrote: I don't know. parenting is tough. I don't recall the scenario myself (it certainly wasn't traumatizing. ) I do think that normally, simply grabbing hold of me and looking me straight into the eyes while sternly stating that I absolutely need to stop right at this very moment and if I do not then "x" will not happen (where x is something I am looking forward to), and where if I do not stop then "x" really does not happen, is a better way of going about it. This can be really effective sometimes. "If you don't stop misbehaving we won't go to the baseball game next week." The kid really wants to go to the baseball game, so they say ok and actually stop misbehaving. On the other hand these things don't always work. There may not always be an "x" the kid is looking forward to. Especially for underprivileged kids, there isn't always a baseball game, or new toy, or other event coming up within the next few days. Even if there is, many kids will, as you suggested, still misbehave, and then the parent will inform them that 'x' is now off the table. However, what does the kid do now? "Man, I should have listened to you. I'm going to start behaving immediately." No. Realistically, the kid will be like "well if that's how it's gonna be, I guess I can misbehave again." Sometimes you can use a "if you are really good until the night before, the baseball game is back on the table" approach to motivate the child to maintain good behavior, but that also won't necessarily work. For some children in some situations, a non-violent approach to the poor behavior you were exhibiting at that time, Drone, is fairly easy to implement and more effective than any type of a slap or spanking. Unfortunately many children make this much more difficult. Keep in mind, we could spend hours analyzing how your mom could best have handled it, and your mom wouldn't have the benefit of that insight. When the parent who hasn't undergone exhaustive training in discipline strategies (as few parents have) is placed into this type of a situation suddenly, they need to deal with it. Many parents agree with you that spanking is wrong, but aren't willing to analyze the issue like you are and search for the answers, and so they have completely undisciplined children who are a liability to all those around them. If I had to choose between those parents giving an occasional spanking (not abusively) and having the kids get a mixed message about violence, versus those parents trying and failing at a purely-peaceful method of discipline, resulting in children that are out of control, I will choose the former. I also believe it's possible to use occasional, controlled spanking and simultaneously teach the child it's only okay to use violence for the specific purpose it is being used for. However, spanking would only be a last resort when non-physical discipline methods have not proven to be effective. Hopefully this will not be the majority of children. By the way I did read the rest of your post and understand where you are coming from, I believe. | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On May 29 2013 04:10 Liquid`Drone wrote: + Show Spoiler + that is hilarious how you quote me, say I'm wrong, and confirm that I'm right all in the same post. you're gonna hit your children in the future. it's a direct consequence of your parents hitting you and you thinking you turned out alright. I fully beleive that you probably turned out in most ways, except one; you believe hitting children is okay. and, this is _the_ extra knowledge corporeal punishment installed in you as opposed to just being talked to. Another important piece ; if you hit your kids, they are going to be much more prone to disobeying people who do NOT excert physical power over them - for example their teachers, who lack that power. whereas people who are disciplined by words, are going to get the psychological response of being disciplined when their future teachers do it. and btw to directly answer your question; my mom once hit me once when I was 3 or 4. supposedly I had deliberately been pushing her buttons for a prolonged period of time and essentially just tried to piss her off as much as I could. after she hit me, I told her "hitting people is wrong!" (as this was knowledge previously installed in me. ) she felt terrible about it. I guess I wasn't very clear because you are merely making the same mistake again. The only thing that I'm disagreeing with is that you're literally speaking for the kids as if kids are some kind of robots. Also, you make wild assumptions. "The only thing physical punishment teaches is that hitting others is ok". "Kids who are hit will only respond to hitting". Listen, I'm totally fine with your stance, I understand that there are a lot of differences in age/culture/upbringing that will make people have different opinions on this. I was just pointing out the absurd claims you're making. What if you're driving on the road and you see a police car run a red light. Do you just suddenly assume "Ah, I see that running red lights is ok now I'll start doing that too np". No, you understand that you are not in a police car, and police cars don't always run red lights so this must be some kind of special circumstance. Likewise, a child who was hit for cursing at their parents would think "Oh man, normally I'm just verbally told off but this time I must have REALLY messed up. Saying a bad word to my parents is on a totally different scale than not eating my vegetables. I better never do that again." EDIT: My point exactly On May 29 2013 04:46 Liquid`Drone wrote: it also teaches the child the lesson that they can hit others if they find themselves in a similar scenario as you as an adult just found yourself in. Yea, I was hit a lot as a kid and, as I said, not once did it cross my mind that it was somehow ok for me to hit others. Your "fact" is disproven. Unless you're talking about me learning that I should hit my kid which is very much true. I know first hand how much it shaped me up. Especially during adolescence, I disobeyed my parents a lot but as soon as I sensed my parents were mad enough to start hitting, I realized the severity (or at least, their perceived severity, even if I disagreed) of the issue and immediately did what they said while reevaluating the situation. I totally understand that corporal punishment is not necessary for parenting properly. But for me at least, I know that every mistake I made that was punished with a beating, I never made again. Speaking disrespectfully to my parents, intentionally causing a scene in public, etc etc. As opposed to something like lying to my parents which was usually met with stern words or disappointment. Yeah I shouldn't do it but man, when my friends birthday party is this weekend and I reaaaally want to go but I didn't quite get the test score I needed to meet my parent's expectation... eh, I'll risk it. Man this post is getting too long but I'm interested to see why you are so against corporal punishment! It seems like your only reason for not hitting your kids is that you don't want them to hit their kids... but what other negatives and positives do you see? Reading your posts, I get the sense that you don't really see any positives in it so you choose not to do it at all but obviously for me, I definitely see how it helped me. | ||
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Liquid`Drone
Norway28503 Posts
second, and this is gonna steer a bit from the original topic at hand, but it is my reasoning for my philosophy on the matter. People's behavior is defined by circumstance. violence, in particular, is something that tends to multiply quickly; the more violence people are surrounded by the more violent they become. what corporeal punishment really states, from a parent's point of view is, I am more powerful than you and thus you must listen to me. other forms of punishment, such as removing privileges or planned activities, rather state that "you have to behave nicely for me to want to spend time with you and do nice things with you". the second message teaches them a message I will be overjoyed if they take to heart ; if you are nice to people they will be nice to you. the first message is one that scares me, and the foundation of general abuse of power; the belief that being more powerful than someone makes it right for you to dictate their behavior. Essentially, the long term societal consequence of children en masse being spanked when they misbehave is that people to a larger degree accept physical punishment and the belief that might makes right. this in turn, makes for a more violent society with more acceptance of abuse from authority figures. Once again, I am talking about percentages and tendencies. Everything is interconnected with everything. While the replication of the belief in light spankings towards misbehaving children is self evident - looking at this very thread I think virtually all of the corporeal punishment-advocates themselves were spanked - the fact that it "worked out alright" is the very reason for them thinking it is alright. But behavioral patterns go beyond just what you transfer towards your own offspring, they contribute towards shaping our very society. The more kids that are spanked for their misbehavior, the more likely I am to get knocked down when I'm drinking at a pub. I want a world with less violence, and the only way to accomplish this is for us to be less violent. | ||
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micronesia
United States24484 Posts
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10340 Posts
On May 29 2013 09:21 micronesia wrote: On the flip side, children who weren't disciplined (whether it be with spanking or not) successfully tend to behave in ways that increase their chances of getting physically hurt by others (antagonizing someone twice your size, for example). It seems that reducing violence is a very difficult (albeit important) goal to achieve. That's a fair point, one reason benefit of behavioral standards and restraints is so you don't one day piss off the wrong kind of person and end up with far worse than a red welt. Of course hitting is probably not the best way to help children from acting out and getting hit by strangers as adults (or various scuffles in school, w/e). It would also encourage the idea that other people might have a right to hit you if you are misbehaving, socially speaking. Ah, we could go 'round in circles about this stuff. | ||
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MarlieChurphy
United States2063 Posts
05/04/2003 at around the 38 minute mark this is what liquid drone and I are talking about: http://www.lovelinetapes.com/shows/?id=1160&h=NDI3NTVlY2F Furthermore hitting your kids is not as effective as other non violent forms of punishment in order to get a kid to behave. So if there are other better ways, why would you hit your kid? There is a couple of good books that go into great depth about this: http://www.amazon.com/Time-out-Toddlers-James-W-Varni/dp/B000C4SRZO/ref=cm_lmf_tit_13 http://www.amazon.com/Parenting-From-Inside-Daniel-Siegel/dp/1585422959/ref=cm_lmf_tit_33 http://www.amazon.com/The-Developing-Mind-Relationships-Interact/dp/1572307404/ref=cm_lmf_tit_34 and a couple of books on abuse for the op to read here: http://www.lovelineshow.com/b/Recommended-Reading/84469999438081995.html also here: http://www.amazon.com/Books-recommended-on-Loveline/lm/R2RESADBGRT50 btw, don't be ashamed of the stigma around getting therapy. Lots of people who are 'normal' go to therapy sessions just because it is a healthy release. Sort of like working out, they do it maybe once a week to keep their mind healthy and at ease, much in the same way an already healthy person will go to the gym for their body upkeep. OT- I dated a chinese woman earlier this year briefly. She was probably the most f'ed up girl I have ever dated. And she was also the most clueless about her f'd up tendencies (and probably the least looking f'd up chick based on exterior image and personality). She was 32 or 33, about 5'5", somewhat cute, dressed casual/classy, no tats or aggressive piercings, and an INTJ shy girl. You would never be able to tell all of the shit I'm about to tell you about her. I had to ask her a dozen times in different ways before I finally got the truth about what I suspected. When I was with her she made me feel as if she was helpless, was not capable of making any decision on her own. She also had issues around the sex and kissing. She seemed to just lay there unaffected and sort of checked out when I was on top, and she would always want to be on top. Coupled with that was the fact that she had real trouble with the initial penetration even if we used lube (and I'm not a huge guy and she wasn't that small a girl). She also would occasionally slip in stuff about ex-bf's or some drama trying to get me to dance the chaotic relationship dance that starts abuse (be it verbal or physical). What really topped the cake was when we were just laying in bed and she started to try and get me to hit her in the face. Like literally pulling my hand into her cheek and me trying to resist. This happened a couple of times. So like I said, I eventually got her to admit her issues after she had denied them in the past. Her mother and father were very abusive and neglectful. And since she was the older sibling she also was somewhat parentalized/co-dependent because of her mom's mental health being poor (I never met her but I assume she was borderline personality disorder among other things from the stories told about her) and she still lives with her to help out or something. Her father and mother would both call her names, tell her she was stupid and ugly often. Beat her, compare her to her siblings (as being worse). And eventually she got to the most pertinent issue of all. Her father molested her. From the details of her molestation it was not as severe as some of the cases you often hear about on loveline (and I won't go into the details here) but it happened more than once. It's not important the details so much anyways, its how the person is effected by it. The worst part about this is that her father is still around her in her life. I really wasn't that into this chick from the first date but after finally confirming my suspicions I broke it off. Before doing so though, I told her to get back into therapy (even though her previous therapist said she was fine; I'm sure it was just because the girl didn't work out her detailed issues, not because the therapist wasn't doing the job) and at the very least I started to download the loveline torrent on her laptop and told her to listen to those. I still sorta feel bad, about cutting her off the way I did but sometimes you just have to make a decision and execute it before you change your mind. | ||
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dongmydrum
United States139 Posts
I was gonna say controlled corporal punishment without emotion is ok and lay out my arguments but then i read some comments saying that everybody who supports corporal punishment was subject to corporal punishment when they were young and that's the reason why they support corporal punishment. Sort of like trying to justify my past huh? that sounds like reasonable so i guess that must be true. | ||
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lisward
Singapore959 Posts
On May 29 2013 14:04 dongmydrum wrote: Oh how objective, unbiased, and open-minded you guys are I was gonna say controlled corporal punishment without emotion is ok and lay out my arguments but then i read some comments saying that everybody who supports corporal punishment was subject to corporal punishment when they were young and that's the reason why they support corporal punishment. Sort of like trying to justify my past huh? that sounds like reasonable so i guess that must be true. Controlled corporal punishment that's purposeful may be used as a last resort, but a lot of parents use it because its the quick and easy way to go about, and I've almost never heard or seen a case where a parent has purposefully done it unemotionally; Most of the times parents are pissed off. Especially if you live in an Asian society like mine, it's extremely common to get beaten for not doing well academically. I guess the problem with parental corporal punishment is that there are no standards, some of you guys are like oh I got spanked on a butt a few times, it didn't do me any harm. And that's fine, but then I see people going out, I got beaten a lot, I got slapped and I'm not so sure. Where I come from, belting is corporal punishment, hitting your kid with a stick is corporal punishment, slapping your kid is corporal punishment. What then, is the difference between abuse and discipline? You can come up with justifications for every time a kid is beaten and say it's discipline. As a kid I was belted, slapped, caned for shit like spilling water, spilling food, not doing my homework, dropping the phone, playing with batteries, not doing well in spelling tests/examinations etc. (What you'd call, doing stupid shit) Not once was I told what I did wrong, I was just beaten and told to shut the fuck up, and as I grew older, all I knew was fear and anger. Fuck every mom and pop shop sells canes to with the specific purpose of hitting children, and its a statistical fact where I come from, that during examination period cane sales skyrocket, that's why men around here grow up to be god damn pussies. | ||
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Divinek
Canada4045 Posts
On May 26 2013 19:41 salle wrote: I completely agree, it's a very very bad way to try and teach someone something. Positive reinforcement is much better, but also much harder for a lot of people to do for whatever reason. However it is a form of negative reinforcement... (do wrong, get pain). Technically sir negative reinforcement is when an unpleasent stimulus is removed when the person complies with what you want them to do. If they do wrong and then you add an unpleasent stimulus. What you are referring to is positive punishment (an interesting oxymoron). The only reason I even nit pick is cause quoted post mentioned psychology and in that realm this difference matters to the nit pickers :D It really makes me sad to hear stories about stuff like this happening and I can't imagine how ridiculous it must be growing up living like this. I'm glad you've survived it, and I would encourage you that one great thing that can come from this is you can break the stereotype of chinese parents beating their kids yourself (though I'm sure you likely had this in mind) I appreciate you sharing this though | ||
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Pulselol
Canada1628 Posts
when i acted up (broke shit, said stupid shit, or was just being a plain retard) as a kid, my mother beat me. that would stop me from doing stupid shit. it worked well, would do it again to my own child if i ever have one. i'm chinese, and that's the chinese way of thought. never once have i looked back and thought my parents were bad for beating me. to this day, i'm glad they did, otherwise i would've probably become a piece of shit. call me tough skinned or whatever, but that's life for me. | ||
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clementdudu
France819 Posts
now theres beating and beating,one of my friends dad used a leather belt to punish him,and thats just plain wrong.you could clearly see that the kid was afraid of is dad even when he did nothing wrong | ||
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
I think most parents do so because they think it really works. Some probably think it's the best way to stamp out bad behaviour, which comes down to ignorance. I will admit that some will do so because they're twisted and get some enjoyment out of it, which is very sad. If only more parents were taught that positive reinforcement of good behaviour, accompanied by maintaining a good line of communication with their kids is much more effective, and better for their mental health, than corporal punishment. I guess it comes down to how people generally don't like being told how to raise their kids, though it has significantly improved in recent times. I myself was on the receiving end of a few beatings from my parents. It ceased when I reached a certain age, but I never forgot what it was like. One was even public for that matter, and the embarrassment and humiliation was much worse than the physical pain. I'm not going to blame every character flaw (or what I perceive to be mine) on bad parenting, but I do think it contributed heavily towards how I turned out. Shy, withdrawn, low self-esteem issues, bouts of depression, and all that good stuff. The best you can do is to try and put it behind you and not let the past dictate your future (too much). Try and surround yourself with a good group of friends. It always helps to have people you can count on and to provide a positive environment for you to build up confidence and self-esteem. | ||
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humblegar
Norway883 Posts
On May 28 2013 22:40 Fruscainte wrote: Are you trying to imply children should have the same freedoms and rights as adults and we need to treat our children as equals and like we treat other adults? I don't know how the culture is in Norway and that might just be the way things are done over there, but I can't help but laugh at that idea. If I somehow get knocked out from you smacking me in the face as hard as I would ever smack my child on the back of his hand or spank my child on the rear, I would need to turn in every one of my man cards. Jesus, sometimes a quick, sharp notice of pain in the form of a light smack to the back of a hand is precisely what a kid needs to instantly and suddenly get the concept of "DONT DO THAT" You anti-corporal punishment people just refuse to accept the possibility that maybe, just maybe, we don't derive pleasure from causing any amount of physical harm to our children and maybe, JUST MAYBE, we don't smack the shit out of our children for every minor infraction or for any infraction for that matter. Stop associating an ass spanking that has a force that would be appropriate to cause mild discomfort for a 6 year old to you punching an adult 10 times in the face and knocking them out. Like I said before, corporal punishment has one purpose in my mind: To demonstrate to a child who is still in very developmental stages when violence occurs. If you curse someone out, you're going to get spanked because guess what happens when you curse someone out in the real world. If you slam someones face into a concrete structure of sorts, you can expect a physical retaliation. If you point a gun at someone or steal someones money, you can expect a physical retaliation of sorts. Those are really the only situations I could ever imagine spanking my child, ever. Of COURSE if you spank your child all the time or smack him around he'll assume that the solution to everything is violence. However, you have to be beyond naive to think that violence still doesn't exist in our world and your child needs to learn the consequences of his actions, and he needs to learn that some things are so inappropriate he needs to never do it ever. If I only ever spank my child one or two times in the entirety of his life -- those one or two times I spank him is going to be in his memory forever. And he's going to remember the explanation I told him afterwards of why what he did was wrong, and you can guarantee he's never going to do those things again. Nothing funny at all about children being equal or having rights. I am not talking about driving a car, but basic human rights like not being abused by the most important persons in your life. Not sure why you bring out the man cards. Did you feel uncomfortable by even the mention of me "smacking" you? How would you feel if it turned out I was ten times bigger than you and your man cards were taken away? Pain is interpreted by the child's brain, not mine or yours. It matters little that you are comforting yourself calling it smacking. A child will have to use his own brain to try interpreting why you are hurting him or her. As Drone has mentioned, kids do not always learn what you think you are teaching them. They are copycats, and therefore the most likely thing they are learning is what you are doing (hitting them). | ||
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
Also, I would never slap my child in the face for any reason. I would never smack anyone in the face 10 times or hit anyone anywhere 10 times. Stop comparing you coming up and hitting me in the face 10 times randomly and knocking me out to spanking my kid on the rear twice when he gets caught doing something completely atrocious. I don't feel uncomfortable at all with the thought of you smacking me in the face, I'm annoyed with the idea that you feel the need to compare apples to green beans. Because some parents are terrible at expressing to their children the purpose of their punishment doesn't mean the method itself is flawed. You talk about how intelligent your kids are and how they can interpret right and wrong and the consequences of their actions, but then you turn around and say if a kid is lightly spanked on the rear he's suddenly going to forgo all of his intellect and just become some bloodthirsty monster who responds to any and all conflict by throwing punches. And it's not "comforting" myself at all. Spanking a child on the rear once or twice in his life doesn't hold the same consequences of punching your kid in the face 10 times and knocking him out and performing daily abuse. Also, I'm never in my life going to treat a child like I would an adult. Ever. Children don't have man cards to be taken. If you live in my house and eat my food buying video games with my money and taking girls out on dates with my paychecks and wearing clothes I bought and watching TV on a TV that I bought on cable that I pay for, they don't get the same treatment I give other people. They are my dependent, and it's not being oppressive to tell them to live by a simple set of rules and to punish them if they do not follow said rules. The day my children will stop living by the house rules (which I assure you will be extremely loose, I'm not an authoritarian as this sounds) and stop being punished for breaking them is the day they pay their own rent. | ||
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