EPTSoooo good.
[Patch 1.0.0.153: Preseason Balance Update 1] GD - Page 11
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Zergneedsfood
United States10671 Posts
Soooo good. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
500 range -> the terrible thing about her, Vayne is 550; 50 range is huge in lane. 500 basically means your in range for all bruiser abilities in team fights. 2: She wants a pokey or zoning support so she can live through AA harass until she some mid game items. Leona is terrible at this, Blitz is decent, Zyra is decent. These are the champs that can be used so she can be threatening to the Vayne. 500 vs 650 range is a joke easy MU for Cait you don't use Q or W and its super easy: push, ward deep then zone. Leona, Ali and Taric are reallly weak vs cait as their range is so much shorter than her AA. Cait can easily start Dorans blade. She is fine mid and lategame but unless they pick Ez or Graves before you blindpicking Sivir is suicide, Vayne is just so much better mid and lategame. | ||
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Inschato
Canada1349 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On December 14 2012 15:42 Eppa! wrote: Ok the top issues with Sivir: 500 range -> the terrible thing about her, Vayne is 550; 50 range is huge in lane. 500 basically means your in range for all bruiser abilities in team fights. 2: She wants a pokey or zoning support so she can live through AA harass until she some mid game items. Leona is terrible at this, Blitz is decent, Zyra is decent. These are the champs that can be used so she can be threatening to the Vayne. 500 vs 650 range is a joke easy MU for Cait you don't use Q or W and its super easy: push, ward deep then zone. Leona, Ali and Taric are reallly weak vs cait as their range is so much shorter than her AA. Cait can easily start Dorans blade. She is fine mid and lategame but unless they pick Ez or Graves before you blindpicking Sivir is suicide, Vayne is just so much better mid and lategame. Sivir *does* have 310 speed, a Q that does obnoxious amount of damage (if hits twice), an autoreset, a spellshield that refunds mana, and (imo) one of the most broken passives in the game. | ||
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Vanka
China1336 Posts
On December 14 2012 15:42 Eppa! wrote: Ok the top issues with Sivir: 500 range -> the terrible thing about her, Vayne is 550; 50 range is huge in lane. 500 basically means your in range for all bruiser abilities in team fights. 2: She wants a pokey or zoning support so she can live through AA harass until she some mid game items. Leona is terrible at this, Blitz is decent, Zyra is decent. These are the champs that can be used so she can be threatening to the Vayne. 500 vs 650 range is a joke easy MU for Cait you don't use Q or W and its super easy: push, ward deep then zone. Leona, Ali and Taric are reallly weak vs cait as their range is so much shorter than her AA. Cait can easily start Dorans blade. She is fine mid and lategame but unless they pick Ez or Graves before you blindpicking Sivir is suicide, Vayne is just so much better mid and lategame. I'll give you cait, because she is hard to force a fight upon, but you can still last hit and push the lane with boomerang without being as punished in other matchups unless cait doesn't trap at all. There are few hard counters in bot lane, and the range difference between cait and sivir isn't enough for it to stop being a skill matchup. But you do realize sivir has higher burst damage from lvl 2 onwards than graves or corki or even mf (though mf has more sustained damage after), and vayne has one of the lowest base healths the game? You can't auto attack harass sivir as vayne considering 50 range isn't enough when sivir moves faster with her passive. She has incredible sticking power with her passive, and all sivir needs to do is auto w auto and she will chunk vayne far hard than vayne can return, even if somehow you can't hit the boomerang. Even if this isn't true, sivir can push the lane and have vayne farm under tower, and there's no actual way for vayne to prevent this. Implying sivir needs mid game items is like saying mf needs mid game items to kill someone. Sivir is an aggressive lane dominance champ that falls short of mf and draven, but can easily do well vs the regular staples of bot lane. She has as much sticking power to an enemy champ as vayne and ashe do, and she has a very large amount of damage from lvl 2 onwards. A boomerang auto w auto will chunk more than half the health any ad's health in lane in a single non-ult combo. This is not even touching the fact that sivir is also one of the best solo ad mids. | ||
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c.Deadly
United States545 Posts
On December 14 2012 16:01 Inschato wrote: What about putting Jarvan IV support in the lane with Sivir? He's got enough range to poke any AD carry, and can commit almost as hard as Leona. I really can't get enough of Jarvan IV lately, someone remind me of why he's bad... Jarvan support is bad, but Jarvan himself is extremely strong. Jungle Jarvan was popular in the Korean regional qualifier for IEM Cologne | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
Mind you if you can't get out of his ult it's freaking awesome. | ||
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Inschato
Canada1349 Posts
From the 20-30 games I've played with him in the last week or so, the biggest thing I see is coming from behind, if you fall behind on levels you're too squishy to actually go in and slow people with your shield. When you're ahead, he dominates the game, but behind he struggles to be useful. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On December 14 2012 16:45 Parnage wrote: Jarvan couldn't hear you over the sound of the literal excel spread sheet that jarvan keep's called "People and abilities who can get out of my ultimate with ease" It's exceedingly large. Mind you if you can't get out of his ult it's freaking awesome. Add that to the # of times your j4 ult causes you to lose team fights rather than win them, and you get one of the very few abilities in the game that is actually bad. | ||
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Inschato
Canada1349 Posts
Edit: Totally forgot to mention Alistar headbutt, it's definitely one of the biggest offenders. | ||
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SnK-Arcbound
United States4423 Posts
Also why are we getting a saturday patch, they really want to nerf shit? | ||
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On December 14 2012 17:15 Inschato wrote: Jarvan Ult, Trundle Pillar, Anivia Wall, Janna Ult. Did I cover everything? Well there's niche ones like Lee Sin ult, Tristana ult, generally things that reposition people. I'd say j4 ult, trundle pillar, and anivia wall is more often than naught, a hindrance to your team. Lee Sin ult, Trist ult, and Janna ult are almost "you'd have to try and troll your team by kicking the amumu into the team" | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
I could agree with the statement that J4's ult can sometimes, perhaps often times, be more of a hindrance than a help. But more often than not Anivia wall or Trundle pillar are beneficial unless your teammate is purposefully trying to be a dick. Trundle pillar is pretty much the best thing about that champion and Anivia's wall + Q is what makes her team fight so amazing. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On December 14 2012 17:31 overt wrote: J4 ult typically locks your own teammates in with enemies. Anivia and Trundle walls typically separate and/or deter fights because they actually have range and don't require you to commit to a fight. If J4's ult somehow didn't lock him into the circle too or if it came with some kind of 1-2 second stun on the primary target it'd be a lot better. As is you just have to be really choosy about who you ult and when you ult. I could agree with the statement that J4's ult can sometimes, perhaps often times, be more of a hindrance than a help. But more often than not Anivia wall or Trundle pillar are beneficial unless your teammate is purposefully trying to be a dick. Trundle pillar is pretty much the best thing about that champion and Anivia's wall + Q is what makes her team fight so amazing. I just wish his wall would disappear when he dies =\ | ||
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Amui
Canada10566 Posts
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NEOtheONE
United States2233 Posts
On December 14 2012 17:24 wei2coolman wrote: I'd say j4 ult, trundle pillar, and anivia wall is more often than naught, a hindrance to your team. Lee Sin ult, Trist ult, and Janna ult are almost "you'd have to try and troll your team by kicking the amumu into the team" If your Anivia wall is more often than naught a hindrance, then that person needs to pick a new champ. Anivia is all about the clutch walls in late game. Great for isolating enemies from the rest of their team, breaking up fights, and starting them, | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On December 14 2012 17:39 NEOtheONE wrote: If your Anivia wall is more often than naught a hindrance, then that person needs to pick a new champ. Anivia is all about the clutch walls in late game. Great for isolating enemies from the rest of their team, breaking up fights, and starting them, Well obviously it's a mistake, but it happens quite often... | ||
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Lylat
France8567 Posts
On December 14 2012 17:15 Inschato wrote: Jarvan Ult, Trundle Pillar, Anivia Wall, Janna Ult. Did I cover everything? Well there's niche ones like Lee Sin ult, Tristana ult, generally things that reposition people. Edit: Totally forgot to mention Alistar headbutt, it's definitely one of the biggest offenders. What about Blitzz grab ?  | ||
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