Corporate Business Series: Part 2 - Page 2

On October 20 2012 09:26 Kalingingsong wrote:
Hi, you implied that at a certain point it might be too late for a person to do start-ups/new companies (in a different thread).

I was wondering whether if the time limit is similar for corporate laddering. Do you feel that it's possible to start this process a bit late in life but still be ok?

On October 20 2012 16:54 yandere991 wrote:
Great post, absolutely loved it. It is more fleshed out than the ones that are generally posted on Wallstreet Oasis.

Life as a consultant sounds pretty interesting, looking forward this summer to see what it's all about. Just one question, is it a public company that different to a partnership in terms of mobility?

On October 22 2012 03:13 ticklishmusic wrote:
Hey man, good luck with that deal.

Well, this is all very interesting, but also kind of overwhelming from a BBA perspective-- I've go a long way too go. I don't think I'll ultimately go into business (I'm pre-med), but it's cool to think of what many of my friends will be doing with the rest of their lives. Some of them are more ambitious and I can see them making it big, others, well, I don't know what they're doing with their time.

It's pretty cutthroat I guess. I'm a competitive person, but only for things that don't matter that much-- things like video games, sports, little things, sure. Fighting my way up... well, that's not really for me. B-school is competitive b/c everything's graded on a curve, and I've already gotten upset at a couple people for deliberately withholding information for some class or other. Then again, I've heard of pre-med kids tearing required readings out of reference material to screw over other students.

So you worked at PwC? Have you heard of the PwC xTREME Case Competition by any chance? I'm doing it with some friends this year, and it may sorta kinda be about esports.

On November 03 2012 17:51 Advantageous wrote:
"If this has been going on then: (i) don't just causally report and give hard figures to your line manager right away, if they are asking for it, then they are preparing their own report. Rather, just say you'll get it to them, then (ii) make your own report much better than you normally do. Even if you're on your last breath, don't skip any details, remember your training as an entry level analyst and make the document with all the bells and whistles, then (iii) forward you report to your line manager while cc'ing your higher ups, with a nice email text into, putting the report attached as your win. Thus, you've followed proper protocol, and you include, as per your 'line manager's' instructions' in the email, but the report is all done by you, and your line manager doesn't have time to take your results and put it into his own reporting and your results can stand as your own results."

5/5 post as your last Mr.MightyAtom! But I have issue understanding the text above. I know... "how could you give the reading 5/5 if you don't fully understand"... I was wondering if you could expand on what you meant by "then (iii) forward you report to your line manager while cc'ing your higher ups, with a nice email text into, putting the report attached as your win.". My understand was to send "the less impressive copy" to "the line manager" and remodel that copy into something "impressive" and send to the higher ups.

On November 16 2012 20:48 MightyAtom wrote:


For corporate laddering- yes, but late is relative, I mean, when you get your MBA and what industry matters a lot, for some industries, upper management is a lot older, early 40's in manufacturing but other's early 30's like in finance. But it's more of a matter of if you do have that executive track available to you, that the room for promotion is there. If it is, then even if you're in your late 20's starting, as long as you are at a company that values results, then no worries. But it goes without saying- you don't have room for making mistakes or making a bad impression.

Personally, I finished my Masters in international business when I was 28, but my corporate laddering didn't start until I was 33 and in a non-professional company, within 2 years I had made it to the top, but I took a total of 4 days off (where I didn't work at least 4 hours that day or travel) out of 730 days of work. But I had a professional business background etc.

If your company respects results, it is never too late to turn on the afterburners and go for it.

On November 18 2012 08:02 Kalingingsong wrote:


Thank you for the reply! As a follow up question:

Any tips for identifying those opportunities that can lead to promotion? Should things be fairly obvious? or might there be things to watch out for (eg dead ends that are made to look like promotion is possible)?

On October 18 2012 19:18 MightyAtom wrote:


Yes, so I used to be a consultant with PwC in Korea. It's a completely different environment than a regular corporation because everyone is either a consultant or certified account and because of the partnership structure, you can't leapfrog your way up.

That being said, the compensation at all levels is much better than most non professional companies, so you are well taken care of it as you take each step. Thing is when it comes to partnership firms, progression is pretty much assured because each professional is a money maker in their own right and so the firms want to always retain talent. In fact, helping your senior manager is a good thing because as they get promoted, they can also help considerably in your promotion as well and also get you into their own team.

So in a professional firm, the key thing is more focused on independently building your own network of clients and really specializing in a certain industry or process that has good yield or growth or demand. So that when it is time after 6 years of work, you won't be passed up for a junior equity partnership position. So everyone gets promoted up to the point where its time to chose the partners, but if you have a solid track record and you have your own client network, it is just another step towards being a full on partner.

In Korea is based on your background as well as your client network, I don't think it would have been an issue for me and as you know, partners make at least 7 figures if you count the benefits and bonus and directors who are partners can make 8 figures etc.

The best thing about working in that environment is in some ways a lack of corporate ladder until you get near the partner line- like when you are senior manager and are competing for that equity offer, that being said, most people know who has what it takes a long time before.

In terms of moving to an industry, it's funny cause even though I made it to a regional director level, while my income was much more than a senior manager's salary, but of course maybe 2/3 of what a junior equity partner would be making - but I was making that income in 3 years, while even now some of my colleagues back in PwC are just on the cusp of getting that equity partnership offer (in Korea due to mandatory Army service, our entire professional services industry is about 5 years older than in the west).

But in terms of working, professional background gave me a serious edge against most of my competitors because a lot of times they really didn't know what business was all about, they were just figuring things out as they went along but had a passion or background in the product/industry. That being said, they had worked through the system and they were extremely good at playing politics; it took me about 10 months to figure it out and about 8 months to really crush them. But I'd say a few times I was on the verge of quitting just cause I thought it was such bullshit until I figured out how they were playing the game.

At first I simply had massive results and output, and much like a professional firm I assumed that I would be taken care of, but it wasn't the case at all. Much of it has to do with not just promotions but compensation and bonuses, and for the work that I had put in, and compared to my other slightly senior colleagues, it was clear that they played this game extremely well and I didn't. Well I figured it out as above and then went to work and at the end of the day, I brought the hammer down on those who were playing politics with my career for themselves. I didn't hold anything back, I didn't cover for them, we'd see each other and say nice things, but really there was an entire war going on with reporting and results and who was going to claim this or that win. But again, at a top organization, the people at the top aren't idiots, they are smart enough, but you still need to be able to present yourself in your own context, not someone else's. So without results, I ended up wiping them out, but I wouldn't want to go through that process ever again. I mean, they also didn't sleep, they also worked hard, it was just that a majority of the work did deal with strategy and negotiations, so it was my extreme strong suit at that time. But had it dealt with marketing promotions for the industry, I would have been wiped out myself because when I first started, of course I didn't have an in depth industry knowledge like my line managers had. But over time once I had that too, it was gg for them.

It is extremely different in being in a professional firm because there is always demand for you at another firm, but in a non-professional firm, once you get kicked out or leave, unless you had a spot prepared for you at another company, it is an extremely difficult transition as these senior executive positions really are not that numerous. So for a lot of these other guys, they have no options but to stay in the company and if they want to make more money they need to try to get the highest position that the can. So I don't blame them, and I never took it personally and truth be told, of course I looked down on them, worms who didn't really love business the way I did, rather worms that were just trying to get by, but also take whatever compensation they could from who ever was around them. And I reckon this was also what happened to them as well as they climbed the ladder.

If I could do it all over again, just between going into a non-professional firm; I don't know. Other than the fact that I did leave to do a start-up in the same industry, I think it was a toss up. Sure you could rise faster in a non-professional firm especially if you have a professional background, but the competition is brutal, whereas, if you just make some smart moves and set up your own network, you'll always be well taken care of and welcomed in the professional sector. Guess I just was an impatient man.

^^

On November 25 2012 15:25 kurosawa wrote:


I always enjoy what you write, though I do think you sensationalise the whole corporate "thing". I've worked for both PwC and Deloitte, and I must say you're comments re compensation of directors and partners are flat out wrong. The avg equity partner comp at PwC UK is only 650k sterling, but you're mentioning 8 figure salaries which I can only imagine are what some of the very senior global leaders could get, and def not some random territory partner or even your TSP. Couple that with the fact that in Asia we make partners much quicker than in the west, and we have salaried partner schemes for the first 3-5 years of admittance to the partnership; I think you are pulling out some pretty big whoppers. Your mention of 6 years to junior equity partner has never happened in my experience. The youngest partners are in their early 30s generally and have put in 10 plus years from associate to make it. And like I said, many are salaried in Asia.

Samil PwC I know is a pretty high performing firm in AP and also the network. But I can't imagine the salaries are so much bigger than what I see elsewhere. Also, I'm interested in what you did regionally as with the exception of one senior partner from KR that held a role for the East Cluster, Korea is quite insular in the network. At both PwC and DTT I've worked in an regional/global capacity operationally so have a good idea of our member firms look like.

With regards to the mention of getting interpersonal conflict/issues at professional services firm. You're pretty spot on. You have to be smart to shine when youre part of an organization of 180k - 200k people globally. But the real hardcore is not in firms like ours, but in the PEs, investment houses/banks etc. On the other end of the spectrum i hear street sweeping and rubbish collecting is pretty harsh too. Professional services is relatively tame in comparison. So let's keep all of this in perspective. We wear suits and earn insanely disproportionate amounts for what we do, pushing paper, people etc. For all the mental pain and anguish that some of your fellow colleagues may put you through doesn't compare to what real pain is if one did not have the trappings of success accessed via good education, a good upbringing and being lucky enough to be afforded the opportunities to succeed.

On November 25 2012 15:25 kurosawa wrote:
...
With regards to the mention of getting interpersonal conflict/issues at professional services firm. You're pretty spot on. You have to be smart to shine when youre part of an organization of 180k - 200k people globally. But the real hardcore is not in firms like ours, but in the PEs, investment houses/banks etc. On the other end of the spectrum i hear street sweeping and rubbish collecting is pretty harsh too. Professional services is relatively tame in comparison. So let's keep all of this in perspective. We wear suits and earn insanely disproportionate amounts for what we do, pushing paper, people etc. For all the mental pain and anguish that some of your fellow colleagues may put you through doesn't compare to what real pain is if one did not have the trappings of success accessed via good education, a good upbringing and being lucky enough to be afforded the opportunities to succeed.

On November 30 2012 00:07 kurosawa wrote:
Well good luck in your mission to become a game changer. You obviously have a lot of passion for what you do and I admire that. I may have it confused but I thought you were writing to help people succeed in corporates. I was never under the impression you were reaching out to people to be mavericks, game changers etc. You can't teach people to be those things. Those things are innate, in my mind. And to be honest, those that really changed the world probably wouldn't have worked at a PS firm. I just can't see Steve or Bill slogging it out in a corner booth at PwC

But on a more serious note, I guess people that just want to succeed within a corporate structure...its very different to being what you want to be, which not only comes with a price on yourself, but also your family. Each of us have our thresholds I guess so each to their own. I've always lived by the idea that I need balance in my life, for myself, and my family. That's where I derive my success and happiness from. I may not go down in the annals of history of being the best but I can say I definitely worked with some of the best, yet had time for the things that matter in my life, I.e. my family.

Perhaps you should put a cautionary warning with your articles. That all of this comes at a great price if pursued

On December 09 2012 05:35 Kyokai wrote:
Dang MA o.o
You never cease to earn my respect. Good luck to your present and future endeavors
I want to squeeze by as a consultant or accountant after my undergraduate studies and designation tests.
I suppose that means I'm not fit to work towards becoming a force of nature or game changer in the industry.
But you're still great inspiration for working hard. Thank you

PS. What does it take to become a partner of one of the Big 4? Just curious :D

On November 16 2012 21:12 MightyAtom wrote:


Hey ^^, no what you don't want to look like is that you are 'playing politics'- basically you won't have time to do to reports, even if one is a revision, if you send the less impressive copy, by the time you send in your impressive one, your line manager will have already out reported you. But by burning the mid-night oil and doing a cc, well the line manager can't actually claim that any of your results are only because of him and it doesn't look to the higher ups that you are deliberately trying to under mind your line manager. You countering him is one thing, but you starting a power struggle and him getting a lesser report when he finds out you've been doing other reports and not cc'ing him on it, will cause a lot of unnecessary interpersonal issues where he may go out of his way to fuck you right away, by saying that you are purposely trying to under mind his position and that you're being unprofessional. Always be cool and professional, the first people who looks like they really are playing politics gets fucked first. Keep it professional and let them shoot themselves in the foot.

On November 16 2012 21:01 MightyAtom wrote:

I'm actually opposite to you, i'm not competitive at all for gaming or playing sports with friends, but it came to grad school or work, or playing at a national level, obviously I'm uber competitive, but I like to always play fair, cause you know when you win, it's a real win, and ultimately at the highest tiers, people who are there aren't the cutthoat competitive guys, they are the guys who really are a notch above the rest. Like a level 25 dota character when everyone else is level 11. lol.

On January 09 2013 10:31 MightyAtom wrote:


I'm so sorry it took so long to get to this, I'm just coming up for air at this point ^^

I think, it doesn't matter what field you're in- what I meant by being a force of nature, is that passion or ambition you bring to it. And in term of being a partner in a Big 4:
so it all depends on your national firm and culture, so it's all different,
but to peg it down in general terms:
1. you must get some type of industry recognition via reputation or speaking or white papers as an expert in a certain field (This goes hand in hand with point 2, but I think it will be a combination of the 3 points listed)
2. you need to be able to get paying clients, get more clients, and keep clients (if you can't get clients, it would be exceptional that you make partner, unless you are such a 'guru' of your industry that just by having you in the firm, you increase the prestige of the firm, but you'd have to be such an uber guru in that case).
3. you need to be able to maintain a strong loyal productive team (you team can be defined by average revenue by staff)


And lastly in any partnership firm, you need to be LOYAL to the firm: log the hours in and keep with the culture of the firm- strategically challenge if it really makes the firm better, but rebels and complaining- not in a partnership structured firm. ^^