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On September 05 2012 12:18 BlackMamba24 wrote:
He's not using the same logic, I think he genuinely misunderstands why I voted for BC
and new players have all been taught by other bad townies that posting a lot and posting your reads is good when it's trash so i'm not surprised
i drop the fos on him completely, goodkarma isn't scum or at least if he is he hasn't revealed himself yet
I'm not ready to make a conclusion until I hear some more answers. I really don't have enough information to infer his genuinity.
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Never mind about my last post. Ottox is pretty much the only person with doubt, its just that so many people shutting him down it seems like it.
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Also, just noticed that Gravan recently voted Mattchew in the vote thread. Kinda curious why he changed his mind without so much as a post.
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He has a theory that matt is an assassin and is basically making an useless confirmation of his vote.
Why is there doubt?
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He said he was gonna vote for him....
Since it is day 1 and we only have so much information, we essentially have to lynch him anyway (even if we were nearly certain he is an assassin. At this time, I'll be throwing my vote his way.
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That was guy number 2 I missed him on my reread of the filters. The end of his post is scummy imo sounds like he is trying to avoid modkill as opposed to helping the town. Interested in why he thinks Matt is assasin and still votes for him.
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Why is he voting Mattchew if he's convinced he's an assassin? Hell that post doesn't really explain why he's even voting - "we essentially have to lynch him anyway" - wut?
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On September 05 2012 12:59 BroodKingEXE wrote:That was guy number 2 I missed him on my reread of the filters. The end of his post is scummy imo sounds like he is trying to avoid modkill as opposed to helping the town. Interested in why he thinks Matt is assasin and still votes for him.
Yep, that's the main problem I would have with him.
Also, from your filter, you were pretty focused on Toad. Do you still find him suspicious??
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On September 05 2012 13:00 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 12:59 BroodKingEXE wrote:That was guy number 2 I missed him on my reread of the filters. The end of his post is scummy imo sounds like he is trying to avoid modkill as opposed to helping the town. Interested in why he thinks Matt is assasin and still votes for him. Yep, that's the main problem I would have with him. Also, from your filter, you were pretty focused on Toad. Do you still find him suspicious??
No, his response was belivable based on posts he made after his sloosh interaction. Ottox has replaced him due to the fact that he is pushing a "Matt is an assasin/townie scheme" instead of pushing his scum read toad.
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On September 05 2012 13:00 Hapahauli wrote:
Why is he voting Mattchew if he's convinced he's an assassin? Hell that post doesn't really explain why he's even voting - "we essentially have to lynch him anyway" - wut?
This is my fault for wording this sentence poorly. Although I am still leaning towards Matt being an assassin, he certainly looks all kinds of scummy as well. There isn't enough information at this point to lynch someone else - this lynch will, at worst, be neutral. I feel that, unless someone who has better evidence against them comes up (unlikely) we are better off to make this lynch and gain the information (Matt's flip) than sit idle. I am just asserting that I personally think he is an assassin. I'm done on the whole Matt issue now; still working on making my posts more constructive and less parrot-y.
If Matt flips scum, Ottox and Toad really need to be looked at. Ottox has been making his bizarre crusade about the potential innocence of Matt, as everyone knows. To me, Toad's last few posts have seemed a little aimless and very personally aggressive with little content. He spends a considerable amount of time shutting down and pointing at Ottox (who is looking obviously scummy or very misguided) in a well written post, then shifts to personal attacks and negligent remarks.
Sleep time for me now; I'll actually have some rest by tomorrow and won't be travelling.
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No, Forumite. I don't see how you get that whatsoever. I see you as being scum with Mattchew for not jumping on voting him there.
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@ Miltonkram Your case against Hapa has all but crumbled, but yet you continue to go after him for not coming up with scum reads?
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On September 05 2012 13:30 Gravan wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 13:00 Hapahauli wrote:
Why is he voting Mattchew if he's convinced he's an assassin? Hell that post doesn't really explain why he's even voting - "we essentially have to lynch him anyway" - wut? This is my fault for wording this sentence poorly. Although I am still leaning towards Matt being an assassin, he certainly looks all kinds of scummy as well. There isn't enough information at this point to lynch someone else - this lynch will, at worst, be neutral. I feel that, unless someone who has better evidence against them comes up (unlikely) we are better off to make this lynch and gain the information (Matt's flip) than sit idle. I am just asserting that I personally think he is an assassin. I'm done on the whole Matt issue now; still working on making my posts more constructive and less parrot-y. If Matt flips scum, Ottox and Toad really need to be looked at. Ottox has been making his bizarre crusade about the potential innocence of Matt, as everyone knows. To me, Toad's last few posts have seemed a little aimless and very personally aggressive with little content. He spends a considerable amount of time shutting down and pointing at Ottox (who is looking obviously scummy or very misguided) in a well written post, then shifts to personal attacks and negligent remarks. Sleep time for me now; I'll actually have some rest by tomorrow and won't be travelling.
Wut he cant be both (scum and sasin), if he's a third party its not worth a town lynch. Why dont you look at Ottox and Toad now? You seem to have an idea about them.
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TAIWAN NUMBAH WAN5955 Posts
On September 05 2012 12:43 Z-BosoN wrote:
@Shiaopi
Your meta is a little off from Dwarf Mafia, where you were town and had much more contribuitive posts in day 1. When will your internet be fixed?
Internet is unstable as of now, dunno if it will get better. If you are concerned about my meta you should probably read TL Mafia LV instead, since dwarf fortress was a mini, but anyway.
Gravan has gone to sleep apparently without doing his promised post, which is something I really don't like...
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@ Hapahauli
Just catching up on the thread after work. Figured I should respond to this.
On September 05 2012 07:42 Hapahauli wrote:
So I take it you don't think of me as scum anymore? If so, then who else do you find suspicious? I haven't seen you comment on any other player yet.
What do you think of Bill Murray? He actually called your case a "good observation."
You're a nullish read to me. There are things about your play that I'm not fond of, but after thinking on them I'm no longer convinced they are scummy.
I don't understand the point BM is trying to make against you here
---snip
new FoS presented: Hapahauli. Milton catches him using the word scummy in a way you'd not want to use as town. Admitting something you've done is scummy is one thing, like I did, but the way Hapa used this makes me want to scream scum. His interaction with my 1st suspect Doyouhas is also pretty bad.
or here
On September 05 2012 05:51 Bill Murray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 05:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 05 2012 04:20 Miltonkram wrote:On September 04 2012 20:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 04 2012 19:29 Miltonkram wrote:Now that we're 99% sure Mattchew is scum I'd like everyone to turn their attention to Hapahauli. On September 04 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:As for an early-game scumread, I'm suspicious of DarthPunk. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=15#285In his only substantial post, he's very critical of the early-game play of two players. He calls mattchew's vote "retarded" but doesn't attempt to say if it's scummy or not. He doesn't ask questions about their motives - he's just critical, and that seems scummy to me. ##Vote DarthPunk He chainsaw defends Mattchew after Mattchew recieves pressure from DarthPunk. All the while he avoids actually commenting whether he thinks Mattchew seems guilty or not. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). Other than that he's been plenty forthcoming with town reads, but he has yet to seriously pursue a scum read. I'd like everyone to turn to Miltonkram for straight up lying about post history. This would be the biggest pile of crap I've seen in the thread if it wasn't for the Mattchew fake-claim. Scum coming in late and trying to make the best of a bad situation IMO. Then he spends time needling the conversation to a point where DarthPunk is willing to unvote Mattchew until BC comes in and blows that shit up (like a bauss). At that point in the game, DarthPunk hadn't voted for mattchew yet. DarthPunk never votes until Palmar confirms the lie. Looks like we have scum #2 - using misinformation to make a key component of his "case" stronger. Or I just thought DarthPunk had voted for Mattchew already. My mistake. He had put pressure on Mattchew though and thus I would call Hapahauli's attack on DarthPunk a chainsaw defense. If you look at the back and forth between Hapa and Darth you see that Hapa backs off only when Darth starts backing off from Mattchew. On September 04 2012 11:12 DarthPunk wrote:On September 04 2012 10:51 Hapahauli wrote:
Okay this is getting nowhere fast. Howbout this - other than being "retarded", does it make you lean one way or another toward Mattchew's alignment? As to Mattchews alignment. He claimed Nosy neighbour. As far as I am concerned if he is not a nosy neighbour it will become apparent over time if he was lying. So I would like to take a wait and see approach. I don't feel like his posts are pro town. Perhaps I am missing things and it is going over my head. But clarity and Transparency are preferable to what has been going on during the last few pages. That's fair. Your responses seem townie enough - I'd ##unvote if votes in this thread actually counted =P This sticks out to me because it tells me that Hapa's goal was not to pressure Darth, but to take pressure off of Mattchew. What had Darth done to deserve the BOTD from Hapa? I may be blind here, but where did Darth seriously push mattchew? I see him point out voting for someone who distrusted the claim as retarded and happa jump on him for it. Would that mean everyone who called me a liar for calling mattchews claim bullshit chain saw defending him? I honestly do not see this case you are seeing, I see two people moderately arguing over a choice of wording being in this case "retarded". Everything I can see (maybe my dyslexia is kicking in here) is that they argued over poor word choice and darth never stood down from his opinion, nor did happa. They commented on word choice, it was explained out by both people and once discussed they moved on. I honestly think unless you can provide me any real analysis here a new case as I just do not see or comprehend what you do here. I see. See, what is happening here is both distancing and trying to divert the wagon. Hapahauli also has scummy interaction with Doyouhas in the said suspicious post. Doyouhas's vote on me early reeks of scum pushing policy on town feels like a bus... Hapahauli has bad language use which makes him look like scum.
@ BM
Any chance you can clarify what you were trying to say in these two instances?
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Milton's backtracking of his read has him slipping down from my list of town I'm mentally keeping
was pretty null before
but, yes, I'd love to explain, Milt. You see, when people coach others on their play without suspicion, it looks like they're buddying. You're buddying hapa right now even calling him null.
He did the same thing with Doyouhas, who I obviously don't like for his previous vote on me.
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@BlackMamba:
You have addressed my questions satisfactorily. Now, while I don't really agree with your original scum read on Cobbler, I at least understand where you're coming from. And the same can be said about your refusal to share reads.
Looking at what I said about Hapa, I can understand how it was unhelpful. However, Cobbler had specifically mentioned Hapa, and having some understanding of his meta from having previously played with him, I felt I could provide some insight into why I felt his actions aren't currently suspicious. But a null read isn't a scum or town read, and I can see how it isn't helping to scumhunt.
But I would like to point out that not knowing I had already voted for Mattchew, when it is posted in two places, was more than a little careless on your part, and something I expect not to happen again.
@Hapa:
First, I never said I had a town read on you. Nowhere do I say this, so I have no idea how you came to this conclusion.
Second:
Here's the actual quote:
On September 04 2012 11:03 goodkarma wrote:Hey all  A couple general observations for what I've just read: -I don't follow some of the voting that's already taken place in this thread. I don't get why some of us feel the need to vote for each other this early with little to no information to back a vote up. Imho, we should be working to establish a strong, pro-town atmosphere just as much as we are to find a lynch candidate for today. -I remember Hapa saying this once before: lynching one of the most vocal members day one is typically not the best idea. Looking back at how NMM XXIV turned out (Shady's lynch), others here should agree with me that there's at least some evidence to support this. Town loses so much more from a mislynch of a vocal town than of a semi-lurker, and, at least in my experience, you're much more likely to lynch a town than a scum when you target the most vocal day one player. I'm not going to assume that sloosh is town at this point, but the effort he's taken to pressure others with his posts is definitely conducive towards a pro-town atmosphere. Along those lines, I feel that Z-Boson's early vote on sloosh could very well be scum motivated. I disagree that sloosh's discussion is unhelpful. Maybe scum or town could pressure people like sloosh has, but he's pushing for more information so he's not stuck making a weak case against others, as Z-Boson has with sloosh: ##FoS: Z-Boson
I stated very clearly that I was discussing day one lynch. Mattchew is set to be lynched today, not Mamba. Please read my posts more carefully before discussing them.
As far as Lvdr goes, I mistook his posting on game mechanics as a content post in-game. This was very poor play on my part, and I should have read his filter more attentively.
My thoughts on Ottox:
He's been receiving a lot of pressure lately. I originally found his play to be too foolhardy to be likely scum-motivated. The consideration of Mattchew being an assassin in my opinion is ridiculous, as assassins only have to worry about getting lynched. If your only goal is to not get lynched, then why would you ever risk looking scummy with a fake roleclaim? But all of this has been said before... Right now, my read on him is he is still that he is bad town.
My frustration right now with other proposed lynch candidates (for day 2) is they are null reads to me. I simply don't see clear scum motivation, or town motivation, behind their play. And Mattchew, even after he flips scum, will not provide a lot of leads as the only person who ever went to his defense was Ottox. This would be different if Mattchew flips town, but I find the likelihood of this abysmally low...
I will be looking into filters more tomorrow, and will reassess who is most likely to flip scum. In the absence of clear scum motivation I will rely more on (what I consider to be less reliable) "scum tells."
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
People keep trying to save Matt by suggesting he is an assassin. It makes no sense for this to be the case. Sure he will be visiting people each night but barring being unlucky, they won't die. Even if that was the case he would be able to blue claim to save himself. Such an early claim is completely unnecessary as assassin. I would be more inclined to think he wasn't scum if he had actually tried to defend himself after Palmar's post but the fact he hasn't is the most damning thing of all. If he was an assassin there would be some worth in trying to explain the lie and save himself. As scum the silence is by far the best option because it gives town no info and lets them bicker amongst themselves while not actually doing anything. There has been a lot of time wasted on trying to figure out whether matt is scum even though the evidence strongly suggests he is. I think Ottox is scum and is using this bad situation for them to distract town with pointless discussion about whether Matt could be blue or could be an assassin. Gravan is most likely also scum because his only contributive posts are also trying to swing the discussion onto Matt possibly being an assassin. I think they both know they can't save Matt but are using it as a distraction. Gravan still voted Matt while arguing that he was an assassin so that he wouldn't stand out as having not voted for him. If Matt does flip scum (99% sure he will) we need to either vig shot or lynch (preferably the first one so we get rid of them as soon as possible) both Ottox and Gravan.
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i dont care what matt's role is at this point
his original post is either a slip, or trolling
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EPT
