On July 29 2012 08:01 MrMedic wrote:
##Vote Golbat
##Vote Golbat
A bit late considering day 1 is already over and Golbat flipped Vig
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On July 29 2012 08:01 MrMedic wrote: ##Vote Golbat A bit late considering day 1 is already over and Golbat flipped Vig | ||
MrMedic
Canada452 Posts
| ||
Golbat
United States499 Posts
I'm really sorry that things played out the way they did. I feel like I was going good up until I backed off Mordanis so early, and that was truly a rookie mistake. I've learned a lot about how to play from my first game, and I hope to improve a lot in my next game. I'll be signing up for XXIII, so I'll see some of you there hopefully ^^. Good luck town, kill those dirty mafia bastards! <3, Golbat | ||
DarthPunk
Australia10847 Posts
On July 29 2012 08:34 Golbat wrote: Hey guys, this is my one polite goodbye post. I'm really sorry that things played out the way they did. I feel like I was going good up until I backed off Mordanis so early, and that was truly a rookie mistake. I've learned a lot about how to play from my first game, and I hope to improve a lot in my next game. I'll be signing up for XXIII, so I'll see some of you there hopefully ^^. Good luck town, kill those dirty mafia bastards! <3, Golbat GG golbat. | ||
alan133
Malaysia159 Posts
@Golbat, + Show Spoiler + my advise to you is to do everything to stay alive as blue. Defend defend and DEFEND yourself. It is okay to continue your scumhunt too with minimum-defence, but don't make flip flop around making weak cases. Also, be confident in your defence. You know you are a townie, so every "Scummy" thing people pointed out can be interpreted to be town motivated. Don't just go "I am a newb so that is a newb mistake". Just state why you do what you do instead, honestly, and it is 100 times better than "I am a newb". GG Golbat, I hope you learn something and get something out of this. I looked through the night post and I think people should be careful of what they say during the night. I am not discouraging discussion here but in my last game, the person who got killed is always the one with the wrong case, and scum used that to push mislynch after mislynch. A couple blue advise @Medic should be on the person they think is less scummy/more helpful to town. @Cops should be checking on lurkers. I am in favor of Shady's logic about "loud scum". @Roleblocker - As discussed, random blocking could end up blocking a fellow blue, so it is advisable to not use your ability unless you are sure of the scum. @Vig - If there is another one, reserve your bullet unless you are 100% sure someone is scum. Please correct me if the advise given was wrong. I just woke up and I need to get some food. I will go through the day post again when I am back with the information we got now - Golbat flip blue. I hope everyone else do the same. | ||
Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On July 29 2012 13:05 alan133 wrote: I just woke up and I need to get some food. I will go through the day post again when I am back with the information we got now - Golbat flip blue. I hope everyone else do the same. This. 1000 times this. EVERYONE please read back through the thread before tomorrow with the knowledge that Golbat was a townie. I understand its a lot to read through, but the new perspective can really change your insight. | ||
ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
Okay, so most of the votes on Golbat were related to his newbie-card play. I guess I can accept that as a scum tactic, but as you've seen here it's also evidence of someone trying really hard in their first game. Outside of his defense of being a new player, he was willing to switch votes in order to secure a Day 1 Lynch (I interpreted this as to prevent a no-lynch, majority vote rule), which Keirathi points out as scummy behavior. I disagree with the assessment. We already discussed that votes are a good form of early pressure. It's unfortunate that Golbat wasn't able to get back in time to role claim or perhaps make a better case against another player. Zorkmid's vote comes off to me as a bandwagon vote. Evidence against Golbat was that Golbat finally settled on a decision for his best scum read? On July 27 2012 22:11 Zorkmid wrote: Pretty arbitrary reason to vote for someone. Can you explain what you mean by town vibe in that post? (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=15625737) I could understand not having a definite scum read from it, but implying the opposite it a bit premature.Another of these people is Golbat: So far, Golbat has, in this order: voted Mordanis unvoted Mordanis FoS Mordanis His unvote seems to coincide with Mordanis's making a case on him. He claims he backed off the vote because: Show nested quote + On July 27 2012 18:51 Golbat wrote: The reason I backed off of Mord is because I felt like I may have been pushing too strongly against him based on his first bad read. I didn't want to appear to be scum myself, so I backed off for the moment. I still have a sneaking suspicion about him that he may be mafia, but I didn't want to lynch myself by pushing too hard on a bad read. I feel like i've been talking in circles around mord, "He's scum, no he's town, no he might be scum, no he's probably town", so I feel like I need to take a definite stance on the matter, and that is #FoS Mordanis I'm not sure what this could mean, but I think that it's worth pointing out. It's one of the stranger seeming posts I've read in this game. Mordanis tunneled on Golbat from the looks of it. It matches his behavior earlier in the game, tunneling on Keirathi. On July 27 2012 15:36 Mordanis wrote: So...Golbat: The entire time so far he seems to have been itching to get on my bandwagon. His first post with more than 1 line says: + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2012 09:15 Golbat wrote: Howdy guys! This will be my first game of mafia ever that wasn't an sc2 UMS, and those I could never quite get the hang of (mostly due to nobody else having a clue what was going on either). Hopefully, I'll be able to make more sense of the game in a format like this. As far as the game goes, Mordanis' post about Keir's post where he was "virtually claiming town RB" seems to be a pretty scummy thing to do. It didn't seem to me to be a secret claim of any sort, just a rules clarification. Even if it was a super-secret claim that he could use later, I wouldn't believe him if that was the only evidence he had. From what I've read elsewhere, that type of posting is classic scum behavior. Look like you're helping the town and trying to hunt scum, when in reality you're just blowing a townie's mistakes clear out of proportion to sow confusion and doubt. Not everyone has posted, so I don't yet want to commit to a vote, but I've got my eye on you Mordanis. First he makes an excuse for potential scumslips (First time in a non UMS, take it easy on me), and then proceeds to quietly second the position of DarthPunk. He seems to be trying to avoid attention while being able to make excuses later on, with the added bonus of being able to hop onto a bandwagon on me without much thought from other players. His second post + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2012 11:31 Golbat wrote: I think that lynching a lurker day one is only a good idea if we have no reads on people who might be scum. As far as that goes for me, I already have an idea of who might be scum, so I won't get behind lynching a lurker today. Also, there's not so many people playing that we can afford to kill people off just because they aren't contributing enough. I mean, if you don't post at least once per day, you get modkilled anyways, so it's not lurkers we should watch out for, it's multiple contentless posts (i'm looking at you MrMedic). On July 27 2012 13:36 Golbat wrote: I mean honestly, it's gone on long enough. ##Vote Mordanis If you're red, try to be less obvious next time. If you're green, try to be less scummy next time. I certainly hope you're not a blue. Awesome, he jumps on the bandwagon in 2nd/3rd position, early enough that he seems to be "leading", but late enough that he can avoid later suspicion by saying "Shady was in front of me!". He even tries to end the discussion by agreeing that the case on me is open and shut. Vague Pro-town comments + early excuse + bandwagon-ing + anti-discussion = quadruple scummy. So for right now at least: ##Vote: Golbat 1) Hating on the newbie card (redundant) 2) The quote regarding Golbat having a potential read on scum but not committing yet, which is also explainable by actual newbie play. 3) I guess he got tired of being tunneled, ding ding! Another newbie trait! Pretty shaky reasoning for being scummy, in my opinion. It didn't even register as scummy since it looked a lot like my play in my last game where I was in a similar position. How did you not find Shady Sands saying he is willing to pass up on lynching someone that he considers definitely scum as less scummy than newbie play, hrm? It IS newbie mafia after all. Also, please stop spoilering color commentary. Do it without spoilers or refrain, please. One-line spoilers are nearly as distracting as the poetry was. Thank you. I'm still interested in looking at Shady Sands. Other people who have expressed concerns regarding him have been > Keirathi - that Shady's posting resembles a cop's posting in a previous game. I'd like to know how that's relevant, unless Shady was that cop, we're talking about different things completely. > goodkarma - Found the day 1 lynch stats thing to be scummy. Likes that Shady has been one of the driving forces behind town conversation. Notes that Shady doesn't jump on every bandwagon. > aRyuujin - Haiku'd that the stats thing was scummy. Also mentions that scum would likely not lie in such an easily identifiable way. > Ange777 - His filter reveals that Shady's play has been pretty confusing (regarding flips and what those flips reveal, between Mordanis and Golbat) So here's what I'm putting together from all of this: Shady Sands' play is rather deliberately confusing and time wasting: 1) Bringing in statistics without identifying exactly how they were obtained, ergo they were not easily identifiable as a lie >>>>Lots of time is wasted on people focusing on the stats, trying to verify them, instead of spending time looking at what is more readily confirmed: anything in the thread. 2) Trying to understand what he meant by what flips reveal about the surviving town members, before any other deaths occured >>>>This will end up being a bunch of circular logic on Day 1 given that no other information is known to plain old town members. Delays relevant conversation away from today's discussion and focuses on tomorrows. 3) Being willing to let someone who he considers definitely scum survive the night >>>>No. We always kill scum, potentially removing scum power roles in the process. 4) While in the process of writing this, Shady has claimed that I voted for Golbat. >>>>This is wrong, as my vote was on Shady. More misdirection/confusion. | ||
Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On July 29 2012 13:19 Obvious.660 wrote: > Keirathi - that Shady's posting resembles a cop's posting in a previous game. I'd like to know how that's relevant, unless Shady was that cop, we're talking about different things completely. I fail to see how it was a "different thing completely". I was making the point that wild connection theories isn't necessarily a scum trait, and is pretty null alignment wise. I used the fact that other townies do the same thing in other games as proof. | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On July 29 2012 13:19 Obvious.660 wrote: In regards to my activity, should be able to pick it up by Monday if I haven't been decimated. Going for quality over quantity til the wedding stuff (not my wedding) is finished. (double spacing to keep things grouped) Weird, why didn't he mention he had a wedding to attend in any of his earlier posts in the thread? This seems like a pretty strange after-the-fact excuse for any strange patterns of activity. One thing that is important for everyone in town to start watching for now is activity patterns and posting patterns. Scum will tend to post with an identifiable ringleader and others following in their footsteps... and they will often all make excuses about IRL commitments to assuage any doubts about odd patterns in their collective posting histories. So here's what I'm putting together from all of this: Shady Sands' play is rather deliberately confusing and time wasting: 1) Bringing in statistics without identifying exactly how they were obtained, ergo they were not easily identifiable as a lie >>>>Lots of time is wasted on people focusing on the stats, trying to verify them, instead of spending time looking at what is more readily confirmed: anything in the thread. 2) Trying to understand what he meant by what flips reveal about the surviving town members, before any other deaths occured >>>>This will end up being a bunch of circular logic on Day 1 given that no other information is known to plain old town members. Delays relevant conversation away from today's discussion and focuses on tomorrows. 3) Being willing to let someone who he considers definitely scum survive the night >>>>No. We always kill scum, potentially removing scum power roles in the process. 4) While in the process of writing this, Shady has claimed that I voted for Golbat. >>>>This is wrong, as my vote was on Shady. More misdirection/confusion. 1) Again, sorry for bringing in statistics without sourcing them properly, but that's at least something substantive to debate on 2 and 3) The discussion was on whether to lynch Mordanis or Golbat. We lynched Golbat because he looked the scummiest. The added light Golbat could share on Mordanis was just a bonus, and the discussion never said that it was anything except that. 4) That was an honest mistake--thought Obvious switched to Golbat by the end. Even so, though, my original point still holds: Why would he jump into the thread right after Golbat got lynched, but not before, even though he voted against the Golbat lynching? I would imagine that he'd be interested in persuading other people of the merits of your vote, but he didn't do so. That seems pretty scummy/strange to me. | ||
Ange777
Germany1164 Posts
| ||
Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
On July 29 2012 00:39 Keirathi wrote: @Promethelax Really? You were gone for 14 hours and that's all you have to comment on? What are your current feelings on my Golbat case? Mordanis? goodkarma? What about people like aRyuujin who was getting some heat as well? I don't understand how "townie" Promethelax can be a worse player than the scum Promethelax I played with in XIX. Shady Sands The main argument against him seems to be him saying + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2012 20:39 Shady Sands wrote: 1) He flips red, in which case we've gotten a D1 red lynch which puts us in the 75% win range 2) He flips green or blue, in which case Mordanis will be under quite a bit of pressure. On July 18 2012 08:10 Risen wrote: Why should we not lynch you? Your flip gives us so much information. If you're scum Mattchew is in a rough spot, if you're town scib/Keir are pretty much dead men (unless mason claim) He gets some townie points back though for his active scumhunting. I dunno if he's been right or not, but he has what no one else has had yet this game: conviction. He lays out his reads without caring what other people think of them. He's pushed cases on Mordanis and Golbat that for the most part had solid reasoning based on fact and logic rather than WIFOM. Honestly, I find the townie points in his filter to outweigh his scummy points, and therefor I would be highly against with lynching Shady today. There are just flat-out better candidates imo. As to your points I can't argue that I am not playing as well as I was when I knew everyone's alignment. I have to play blind which is not easy for me, I'm working on figuring out what I think of people and Shady is, in my opinion, the most scummy of players in this game. I didn't comment on Golbat/Mordanis because I think the whole thing between them is dumb. They seem (to me) to be two guys going at each others throats with a whole lot of vigor but very little proof. No cases on either of them have been convincing to me, I will look over yours again though with the no bias instead of my: ignore these nubs bias. I commented on what I had time to comment on. I don't have as much free time as I did when XIX was going on which is why you are seeing the drop in my play. ah, just read the day post. I guess I'll re-read looking at Golbat as one of us. I'm sorry I wasn't here near the end of day 1 to push Shady since pretty much anyone would have been better than a town vigi. I still feel that Shady is the most scummy player thus far but haven't yet had time to do more than a first read through the thread. I worked a 13 hour shift and I'm dead tired. I'm putting this into the thread now so that I can make sure my reads are in the thread in case I die tonight. I will be awake before the night deadline tomorrow to post again in case I feel the need to get more reads into the thread. Keir: talk to me about your thoughts on other people now that Golbat has flipped green. What connections do you see? Who is the scummiest player to you now and why? On July 29 2012 14:39 Shady Sands wrote: Show nested quote + On July 29 2012 13:19 Obvious.660 wrote: In regards to my activity, should be able to pick it up by Monday if I haven't been decimated. Going for quality over quantity til the wedding stuff (not my wedding) is finished. (double spacing to keep things grouped) Weird, why didn't he mention he had a wedding to attend in any of his earlier posts in the thread? This seems like a pretty strange after-the-fact excuse for any strange patterns of activity. One thing that is important for everyone in town to start watching for now is activity patterns and posting patterns. Scum will tend to post with an identifiable ringleader and others following in their footsteps... and they will often all make excuses about IRL commitments to assuage any doubts about odd patterns in their collective posting histories. This seems like a pile of horse shit to me. Obvious is a null read for me, I'm not defending him at all. (anyone who knows they will have things that will eat into their game time should claim it, seriously) Shady really wants us to think that having to go to a wedding is a scum tell though. That is at least as silly as people saying that I am lurking while I'm at work. I could be lying about that I guess but why would I? I like playing this game which is why I signed up for it and, when I'm around, I play it like crazy. On July 29 2012 07:57 goodkarma wrote: Show nested quote + On July 29 2012 06:56 MrMedic wrote: I am back, I am very sorry I was unexpecditatly very busy. But now my sechdule is free. Welcome back. Since you skipped out on the vote, I think it's only fair you give us an update on who you feel is scummy and why. I've read through some of your posting history, and understand that what you've been posting to date is fairly consistent with how you've posted with other threads in the past. I feel I may have come down a bit hard on you earlier with your first attempt at real analysis. I just want to ask you not to feel discouraged, and encourage you to give it another try . This is a newbie game after all, and we're all still trying to figure out how to play this game. And regarding some general questions about a few of my actions, most of it I feel I've already covered in prior posts and will not repeat myself here. There is, however, one point that I would like to discuss a little further. And that is why I selectively set out after aRyuujin. I laid out a few other "lurkers," including people such as MrMedic, Obvious, and Zorkmid. So why did I only set after aRyuujin? It had to do with two factors: 1) posting history and general activity outside this thread 2) writing style and post readability Why aRyuujin sticks out here: 1) I will confess I was a little more whimsical in choosing him on this point than I should have been. I remember looking at one of his posts that was two hours later in another thread than his last mafia post and going "Why didn't he post again in the mafia thread? He still hasn't contributed anything..." But in retrospect, I stand by my decision. Stylistically he doesn't always use haiku in his posts. This choice could have been intentional, so it warranted further investigation. 2) Obviously, haikus obfuscated everything he posted, hiding any real chance at reading his intentions. I may have come across as some madman who wanted to lynch only on policy and not on other qualities but there is some method to my madness. It's been brought up that I should have gone after all of them. The problem with that is that I only have one vote. It would be kind of meaningless to pressure all the people on my "lurker list," as they could just sit there and be like "my bad." You pressure one of them with a vote and you can get a real response, as was the case with aRyuujin. With the day passed, and our first flip, I plan on making a rather lengthy analysis thread on top suspects. I promise to have it before night ends, but don't expect to see it for several hours. Talking about that shit is again the rules (I'm pretty sure). Keep your head down dude, we can only refer to posts outside the thread for 1) Meta and 2) nothing else. I'm quite pleased that he isn;t posting in Haiku though and I feel that stopping is a townie trait since he could have continued to post in a way that was annoying to some but not enough to get him lynched (in my opinion, I would have fought hard, assuming I was here, against a lynch based on being annoyed by his posting style) and hidden or obscured his thoughts; changing his style seems townie to me but he (super super WIFOM here) have read MTG mini 1 where Marv says almost the same thing about Mattchew and decided to replicate the strategy so, while it puts him in my green column it isn't very far in. I'll post again in an hour or so before the sleep madness takes over. | ||
Promethelax
Canada7089 Posts
| ||
DarthPunk
Australia10847 Posts
I am going to read through the thread again with the knowledge that Golbat was town as Keirathi and others suggested and I will post some thoughts in a bit. | ||
DarthPunk
Australia10847 Posts
Golbat played quite poorly when it comes down to it. Which makes it hard to read his posts and find connections with the new knowledge of being a confirmed green. The case on him started with Mordanis and he was subsequently pressured by ange777 consistently as she also did with Shady Sands. In regards to my thoughts on the Mord/Golbat I have previously posted on this topichttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315¤tpage=16#308 Shady and the Golbat flip. Shady jumped on to the golbat wagon with reckless abandon and the post in which Promethelax first casts his FoS had some strong arguments. Which only seem stronger in light of golbats lynch. In terms of Golbats reads etc. He parked his vote with aryuujin in response to the tangent between himself and goodkarma. Which to me doesn't really provide much insight into anything. I am going to read through things again in the morning after some rest and with a fresh Perspective. I am super tired so hopefully things will be clearer then. | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I've finished reading through all the filters again, and have some new thoughts on who is scum. I have decided to follow the advice posted by alan and postpone discussion of those thoughts until day 2 begins in a few hours here. It seems everyone else is doing the same... I would, however, like to make a few comments on the Golbat debacle. While Golbat certainly is to blame for not sticking up for himself, so is the town for voting him. Very obvious, but one of the bigger issues I have with some people's current scum-hunting tactics is they think that scum just have to present in one or two very particular ways. And I will confess I have been guilty of this too... Things like: Scum are sneaky. They hate to make coherant arguements against players. They love to slip up on statistics that don't really have much bearing on their arguements. They can only sit back and lurk (yeah, I was guilty of this one...). Everyone plays scum a little differently, making finding them not a science but an art form. Looking back at the Golbat lynching, I couldn't help but notice that while he played badly, he did it consistently. There wasn't one "scumslip," or one particular bandwagon he was willing to ride. He was like, "I want to ride every bandwagon that presents any semblance of a case." I mentioned this too in passing, that he was either a bad town (for bandwagoning without thinking) or a bad mafia (for being so out in the open). But he wasn't afraid to change his mind. Repeatedly. And he did stick his neck out in getting behind cases, being only the second person to do so in something like 3 different spots... Mafia could do all these things, but I find it highly unlikely that they would, especially in a newbie game where I figure first-time Mafia would prefer to play more cautiously to avoid being exposed than to jump into the spotlight like that. In retrospec, and I know it doesn't mean much, but looking at how he was consistent in his terrible play and was completely unafraid to change his mind I don't see how he could have been anything but really bad town. I encourage everyone, as they're making their new cases, to not have their "scum check-list." Try to show some empathy and really assess if a town could make the posts your suspect has made. Anyway, my 2 cents. I'll catch up here in a few hours, once day 2 has begun. | ||
alan133
Malaysia159 Posts
went through a few filters would like to throw out a few points I noticed, in case I die. @Keirathi After going through Kei's filter, goodkarma's case on Kei made much more sense. Kei's first page in his filter since the game started has literally zero scum hunting. He dedicate most of his post passively defending targets of other people's case. (Note: I directly copy paste text so text formatting is not preserved) To be fair, he said he looked through 20 mafia games (which I assumed was an exaggeration, but I'll let him clarify), not that he looked through the *LAST* 20 games, or specifically looked at newbie games. Overall, I'm leaning townie on Shady despite the case against him. He feels like a townie getting caught up in wild conspiracy/connection theories rather than a scum. I don't think scum can be quite that obvious about it, especially this early into day 1. @goodkarma: I am not going to post his entire filter, look at his filter and I would be surprised if you don't agree with me.I mostly agree with your assessment of Mordanis. I feel like it would be a really silly play for a mafia to try to pull this early. It *WAS* a suspiciously weak case though, but mostly I feel like it was a townie trying to find something to push rather than a scum trying to start a bandwagon. I'll be keeping my eye on him though, that's for sure. About your suspects: aRyuujin I don't really have much to comment about him. I feel like its too early to start qualifying people as lurkers. It is the middle of the night in US times, so I suspect a lot of people are sleeping. MrMedic In his longest post, he did have some good insight despite how hard the post was to follow. He noted how each point of the Mordanis case against me seemed to be trying to paint me dying in a good light. Would definitely like to hear more from him, hopefully in an easier to follow writing style next time though. Promethelax People have to work and sleep. I've played with Prom before, I have no doubt that he'll be active when he has time. People have to work and sleep, they can't be active 24 hours a day. That being said, Prom has been scum in most (all?) of his previous games, so I'm definitely keeping an eye on him This is the only post where I found him writing a case I'm not sure what time I'll be able to get on tomorrow because my grandpa was put in the hospital today, so I want to lay out my cases for today preemptively so that people have time to discuss them. Golbat (as an aside, am I the only person that has trouble typing Golbat instead of Goldbat?) :[ The only reasoning he gave for hopping on the Mordanis vote was + Show Spoiler +. Saying "that's scummy because I read it was supposed to be scummy!" isn't really making a case. Minor point, but he said + Show Spoiler +, then still voted for Mordanis before everyone has posted. I understand that the vote was in response to Mordanis' second big post, but still inconsistent. Another mintor point, since he refuted it, but in his list post, he called out Mordanis for and OMGUS vote against him, but in the same post he questions why I didn't make an OMGUS case against Mordanis for his early case on me+ Show Spoiler +, despite the fact that I defended myself both times. No convictions in his reads, giving himself an out if he is wrong + Show Spoiler + He's so wishy-washy there, even though just 2.5 hours before he had said + Show Spoiler + Along the same line of being flip-floppy, as soon as anyone questioned his vote, he immediately hopped off of the Mordanis vote and asserted that it was only because he was an over-zealous noob + Show Spoiler + Repeatedly uses being a noob to excuse his play. We are all noobs, it's not an excuse. Throwing it around like that just feels like a desperate attempt to correct your mistakes. Along the same lines, I find it scummy that he repeatedly feels the need to proclaim his townie status. EVERYONE is going to say that they are townie, so repeating it a bunch of times to sheep town into believing it doesn't necessarily make it true. I used a similar argument to nail Promethelax as scum in Newbie XIX after he kept repeating that he was townie over and over again in the thread. From his post responding to karma: + Show Spoiler + Didn't he do the same thing (cast suspicion on MrMedic) in his big list post? Yes, yes he did + Show Spoiler + Ryu pointed this out, but I just want to expand on it. Farther down in the same post, he said + Show Spoiler + So he say this can be an inconsistency? Then why has he done it not once, but TWICE? + Show Spoiler + While I don't believe that saying you're willing to change your mind in the light of new evidence is necessarily inconsistent, I don't get how you can call someone else out for doing something that you are doing yourself. Two other people that I am minorly interested in: goodkarma I find repeatedly pushing to have lurkers lynched is an anti-town trait. Our goal is to lynch scum. You claim it's impossible to make solid reads on day 1, but without people making reads, our ability to get successful lynches later in the game diminishes. Repeatedly trying to sheep us back onto lurkers and away from active cases is suspicious. Mordanis While I don't find his initial case against me particularly suspicious (other than the fact that it was pure WIFOM) because it could reasonably have been made by either town or mafia, he hasn't full escaped my notice. He repeatedly tried to assert that I wasn't blue. What good is that information to town, and why did he feel the need to point it out? Town never has a reason to "blue hunt", but scum always does. I really feel like Golbat is our best chance of flipping scum at the moment, so: ##Vote Golbat Also, this post gives me a "funny" feeling: Also aRyuujin, alan, Obvious, and Prom: you guys have overall been pretty quiet comparatively as well. At least you guys have posted cases, but you really need to step up your amount of input. EVERYONE needs to be giving reads as much as possible. Being wrong isn't a crime, but sitting back and letting others lead the discussion just means you have less "town power" and people are going to be more hesitant to listen to what you have to say when you do randomly decide to chime in. While there is nothing wrong to urge other players to contribute, I feel uneasy when this comes from a person where his filter consist of one case against players that are already being presented, and the rest of them were mostly him passively commenting on other people's cases, I feel like there is plausible + Show Spoiler + although speculative Keirathi also said this: I'm not going to make bad cases just to put pressure on people. Like I also said, making cases is what keeps the game moving, but when they are just bad cases you give the scum ammunition to push their own agendas. Are you actually discouraging discussions here? For all I know scums can push their own agendas based on these "bad" discussions as well? @MrMedic I hope you don't miss your next vote, and since you claimed you are going to be free, (And I doubt scums would target you if you aren't one yourself), I would like to see more post from you in day 2. Don't worry, if you are town, just post when you see someone doing something scummy, and don't wait for another person to say it first: It will almost paint you in the wrong light. I refrained from looking at Shady Sands and Mordanis because the filters that I have been reading the entire time was theirs + Golbat's. I noticed Weird, why didn't he mention he had a wedding to attend in any of his earlier posts in the thread? This seems like a pretty strange after-the-fact excuse for any strange patterns of activity. One thing that is important for everyone in town to start watching for now is activity patterns and posting patterns. Scum will tend to post with an identifiable ringleader and others following in their footsteps... and they will often all make excuses about IRL commitments to assuage any doubts about odd patterns in their collective posting histories. So looks like you will be FoS me too, since I have been giving "excuses about IRL commitments"? I think it is best to declare when you're available to play so when you're being called out at least people knows you won't be around to response. That said, it's late over here so I won't be around in 8 hours, so in case I got killed, please consider my points here. | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Please don't read too much into: "being only the second person to do so in something like 3 different spots." This is from memory. And after taking a cursory look back, it appears he only ever put his vote behind Mordanis and Ayruujin. | ||
Shady Sands
United States4021 Posts
On July 30 2012 02:29 alan133 wrote: I just got back. I was called out right after breakfast and did have any internet access until now when I got back home. I just went through a few filters would like to throw out a few points I noticed, in case I die. @Keirathi After going through Kei's filter, goodkarma's case on Kei made much more sense. Kei's first page in his filter since the game started has literally zero scum hunting. He dedicate most of his post passively defending targets of other people's case. (Note: I directly copy paste text so text formatting is not preserved) Show nested quote + To be fair, he said he looked through 20 mafia games (which I assumed was an exaggeration, but I'll let him clarify), not that he looked through the *LAST* 20 games, or specifically looked at newbie games. Overall, I'm leaning townie on Shady despite the case against him. He feels like a townie getting caught up in wild conspiracy/connection theories rather than a scum. I don't think scum can be quite that obvious about it, especially this early into day 1. Show nested quote + I am not going to post his entire filter, look at his filter and I would be surprised if you don't agree with me.@goodkarma: I mostly agree with your assessment of Mordanis. I feel like it would be a really silly play for a mafia to try to pull this early. It *WAS* a suspiciously weak case though, but mostly I feel like it was a townie trying to find something to push rather than a scum trying to start a bandwagon. I'll be keeping my eye on him though, that's for sure. About your suspects: aRyuujin I don't really have much to comment about him. I feel like its too early to start qualifying people as lurkers. It is the middle of the night in US times, so I suspect a lot of people are sleeping. MrMedic In his longest post, he did have some good insight despite how hard the post was to follow. He noted how each point of the Mordanis case against me seemed to be trying to paint me dying in a good light. Would definitely like to hear more from him, hopefully in an easier to follow writing style next time though. Promethelax People have to work and sleep. I've played with Prom before, I have no doubt that he'll be active when he has time. People have to work and sleep, they can't be active 24 hours a day. That being said, Prom has been scum in most (all?) of his previous games, so I'm definitely keeping an eye on him This is the only post where I found him writing a case Show nested quote + I'm not sure what time I'll be able to get on tomorrow because my grandpa was put in the hospital today, so I want to lay out my cases for today preemptively so that people have time to discuss them. Golbat (as an aside, am I the only person that has trouble typing Golbat instead of Goldbat?) :[ The only reasoning he gave for hopping on the Mordanis vote was + Show Spoiler +. Saying "that's scummy because I read it was supposed to be scummy!" isn't really making a case. Minor point, but he said + Show Spoiler +, then still voted for Mordanis before everyone has posted. I understand that the vote was in response to Mordanis' second big post, but still inconsistent. Another mintor point, since he refuted it, but in his list post, he called out Mordanis for and OMGUS vote against him, but in the same post he questions why I didn't make an OMGUS case against Mordanis for his early case on me+ Show Spoiler +, despite the fact that I defended myself both times. No convictions in his reads, giving himself an out if he is wrong + Show Spoiler + He's so wishy-washy there, even though just 2.5 hours before he had said + Show Spoiler + Along the same line of being flip-floppy, as soon as anyone questioned his vote, he immediately hopped off of the Mordanis vote and asserted that it was only because he was an over-zealous noob + Show Spoiler + Repeatedly uses being a noob to excuse his play. We are all noobs, it's not an excuse. Throwing it around like that just feels like a desperate attempt to correct your mistakes. Along the same lines, I find it scummy that he repeatedly feels the need to proclaim his townie status. EVERYONE is going to say that they are townie, so repeating it a bunch of times to sheep town into believing it doesn't necessarily make it true. I used a similar argument to nail Promethelax as scum in Newbie XIX after he kept repeating that he was townie over and over again in the thread. From his post responding to karma: + Show Spoiler + Didn't he do the same thing (cast suspicion on MrMedic) in his big list post? Yes, yes he did + Show Spoiler + Ryu pointed this out, but I just want to expand on it. Farther down in the same post, he said + Show Spoiler + So he say this can be an inconsistency? Then why has he done it not once, but TWICE? + Show Spoiler + While I don't believe that saying you're willing to change your mind in the light of new evidence is necessarily inconsistent, I don't get how you can call someone else out for doing something that you are doing yourself. Two other people that I am minorly interested in: goodkarma I find repeatedly pushing to have lurkers lynched is an anti-town trait. Our goal is to lynch scum. You claim it's impossible to make solid reads on day 1, but without people making reads, our ability to get successful lynches later in the game diminishes. Repeatedly trying to sheep us back onto lurkers and away from active cases is suspicious. Mordanis While I don't find his initial case against me particularly suspicious (other than the fact that it was pure WIFOM) because it could reasonably have been made by either town or mafia, he hasn't full escaped my notice. He repeatedly tried to assert that I wasn't blue. What good is that information to town, and why did he feel the need to point it out? Town never has a reason to "blue hunt", but scum always does. I really feel like Golbat is our best chance of flipping scum at the moment, so: ##Vote Golbat Also, this post gives me a "funny" feeling: Show nested quote + Also aRyuujin, alan, Obvious, and Prom: you guys have overall been pretty quiet comparatively as well. At least you guys have posted cases, but you really need to step up your amount of input. EVERYONE needs to be giving reads as much as possible. Being wrong isn't a crime, but sitting back and letting others lead the discussion just means you have less "town power" and people are going to be more hesitant to listen to what you have to say when you do randomly decide to chime in. While there is nothing wrong to urge other players to contribute, I feel uneasy when this comes from a person where his filter consist of one case against players that are already being presented, and the rest of them were mostly him passively commenting on other people's cases, I feel like there is plausible + Show Spoiler + although speculative Keirathi also said this: Show nested quote + I'm not going to make bad cases just to put pressure on people. Like I also said, making cases is what keeps the game moving, but when they are just bad cases you give the scum ammunition to push their own agendas. Are you actually discouraging discussions here? For all I know scums can push their own agendas based on these "bad" discussions as well? @MrMedic I hope you don't miss your next vote, and since you claimed you are going to be free, (And I doubt scums would target you if you aren't one yourself), I would like to see more post from you in day 2. Don't worry, if you are town, just post when you see someone doing something scummy, and don't wait for another person to say it first: It will almost paint you in the wrong light. I refrained from looking at Shady Sands and Mordanis because the filters that I have been reading the entire time was theirs + Golbat's. I noticed Show nested quote + Weird, why didn't he mention he had a wedding to attend in any of his earlier posts in the thread? This seems like a pretty strange after-the-fact excuse for any strange patterns of activity. One thing that is important for everyone in town to start watching for now is activity patterns and posting patterns. Scum will tend to post with an identifiable ringleader and others following in their footsteps... and they will often all make excuses about IRL commitments to assuage any doubts about odd patterns in their collective posting histories. So looks like you will be FoS me too, since I have been giving "excuses about IRL commitments"? I think it is best to declare when you're available to play so when you're being called out at least people knows you won't be around to response. That said, it's late over here so I won't be around in 8 hours, so in case I got killed, please consider my points here. Just a real quick one here--I called out Obvious because he made the wedding excuse after I made the point about his strange posting patterns (holding off on criticizing Golbat's lynch until after the fact, essentially, when if he thought Golbat was innocent he could have and should have been defending him quite actively prior to the lynch.) I don't see any strangeness from you in the dimension. | ||
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
So, I was like: On July 30 2012 02:18 goodkarma wrote: Just a small update: I've finished reading through all the filters again, and have some new thoughts on who is scum. I have decided to follow the advice posted by alan and postpone discussion of those thoughts until day 2 begins in a few hours here. It seems everyone else is doing the same... I would, however, like to make a few comments on the Golbat debacle. While Golbat certainly is to blame for not sticking up for himself, so is the town for voting him. Very obvious, but one of the bigger issues I have with some people's current scum-hunting tactics is they think that scum just have to present in one or two very particular ways. And I will confess I have been guilty of this too... Things like: Scum are sneaky. They hate to make coherant arguements against players. They love to slip up on statistics that don't really have much bearing on their arguements. They can only sit back and lurk (yeah, I was guilty of this one...). Everyone plays scum a little differently, making finding them not a science but an art form. Looking back at the Golbat lynching, I couldn't help but notice that while he played badly, he did it consistently. There wasn't one "scumslip," or one particular bandwagon he was willing to ride. He was like, "I want to ride every bandwagon that presents any semblance of a case." I mentioned this too in passing, that he was either a bad town (for bandwagoning without thinking) or a bad mafia (for being so out in the open). But he wasn't afraid to change his mind. Repeatedly. And he did stick his neck out in getting behind cases, being only the second person to do so in something like 3 different spots... Mafia could do all these things, but I find it highly unlikely that they would, especially in a newbie game where I figure first-time Mafia would prefer to play more cautiously to avoid being exposed than to jump into the spotlight like that. In retrospec, and I know it doesn't mean much, but looking at how he was consistent in his terrible play and was completely unafraid to change his mind I don't see how he could have been anything but really bad town. I encourage everyone, as they're making their new cases, to not have their "scum check-list." Try to show some empathy and really assess if a town could make the posts your suspect has made. Anyway, my 2 cents. I'll catch up here in a few hours, once day 2 has begun. And then he was like: On July 30 2012 02:29 alan133 wrote: I just got back. I was called out right after breakfast and did have any internet access until now when I got back home. I just went through a few filters would like to throw out a few points I noticed, in case I die. @Keirathi After going through Kei's filter, goodkarma's case on Kei made much more sense. Kei's first page in his filter since the game started has literally zero scum hunting. He dedicate most of his post passively defending targets of other people's case. (Note: I directly copy paste text so text formatting is not preserved) Show nested quote + To be fair, he said he looked through 20 mafia games (which I assumed was an exaggeration, but I'll let him clarify), not that he looked through the *LAST* 20 games, or specifically looked at newbie games. Overall, I'm leaning townie on Shady despite the case against him. He feels like a townie getting caught up in wild conspiracy/connection theories rather than a scum. I don't think scum can be quite that obvious about it, especially this early into day 1. Show nested quote + I am not going to post his entire filter, look at his filter and I would be surprised if you don't agree with me.@goodkarma: I mostly agree with your assessment of Mordanis. I feel like it would be a really silly play for a mafia to try to pull this early. It *WAS* a suspiciously weak case though, but mostly I feel like it was a townie trying to find something to push rather than a scum trying to start a bandwagon. I'll be keeping my eye on him though, that's for sure. About your suspects: aRyuujin I don't really have much to comment about him. I feel like its too early to start qualifying people as lurkers. It is the middle of the night in US times, so I suspect a lot of people are sleeping. MrMedic In his longest post, he did have some good insight despite how hard the post was to follow. He noted how each point of the Mordanis case against me seemed to be trying to paint me dying in a good light. Would definitely like to hear more from him, hopefully in an easier to follow writing style next time though. Promethelax People have to work and sleep. I've played with Prom before, I have no doubt that he'll be active when he has time. People have to work and sleep, they can't be active 24 hours a day. That being said, Prom has been scum in most (all?) of his previous games, so I'm definitely keeping an eye on him This is the only post where I found him writing a case Show nested quote + I'm not sure what time I'll be able to get on tomorrow because my grandpa was put in the hospital today, so I want to lay out my cases for today preemptively so that people have time to discuss them. Golbat (as an aside, am I the only person that has trouble typing Golbat instead of Goldbat?) :[ The only reasoning he gave for hopping on the Mordanis vote was + Show Spoiler +. Saying "that's scummy because I read it was supposed to be scummy!" isn't really making a case. Minor point, but he said + Show Spoiler +, then still voted for Mordanis before everyone has posted. I understand that the vote was in response to Mordanis' second big post, but still inconsistent. Another mintor point, since he refuted it, but in his list post, he called out Mordanis for and OMGUS vote against him, but in the same post he questions why I didn't make an OMGUS case against Mordanis for his early case on me+ Show Spoiler +, despite the fact that I defended myself both times. No convictions in his reads, giving himself an out if he is wrong + Show Spoiler + He's so wishy-washy there, even though just 2.5 hours before he had said + Show Spoiler + Along the same line of being flip-floppy, as soon as anyone questioned his vote, he immediately hopped off of the Mordanis vote and asserted that it was only because he was an over-zealous noob + Show Spoiler + Repeatedly uses being a noob to excuse his play. We are all noobs, it's not an excuse. Throwing it around like that just feels like a desperate attempt to correct your mistakes. Along the same lines, I find it scummy that he repeatedly feels the need to proclaim his townie status. EVERYONE is going to say that they are townie, so repeating it a bunch of times to sheep town into believing it doesn't necessarily make it true. I used a similar argument to nail Promethelax as scum in Newbie XIX after he kept repeating that he was townie over and over again in the thread. From his post responding to karma: + Show Spoiler + Didn't he do the same thing (cast suspicion on MrMedic) in his big list post? Yes, yes he did + Show Spoiler + Ryu pointed this out, but I just want to expand on it. Farther down in the same post, he said + Show Spoiler + So he say this can be an inconsistency? Then why has he done it not once, but TWICE? + Show Spoiler + While I don't believe that saying you're willing to change your mind in the light of new evidence is necessarily inconsistent, I don't get how you can call someone else out for doing something that you are doing yourself. Two other people that I am minorly interested in: goodkarma I find repeatedly pushing to have lurkers lynched is an anti-town trait. Our goal is to lynch scum. You claim it's impossible to make solid reads on day 1, but without people making reads, our ability to get successful lynches later in the game diminishes. Repeatedly trying to sheep us back onto lurkers and away from active cases is suspicious. Mordanis While I don't find his initial case against me particularly suspicious (other than the fact that it was pure WIFOM) because it could reasonably have been made by either town or mafia, he hasn't full escaped my notice. He repeatedly tried to assert that I wasn't blue. What good is that information to town, and why did he feel the need to point it out? Town never has a reason to "blue hunt", but scum always does. I really feel like Golbat is our best chance of flipping scum at the moment, so: ##Vote Golbat Also, this post gives me a "funny" feeling: Show nested quote + Also aRyuujin, alan, Obvious, and Prom: you guys have overall been pretty quiet comparatively as well. At least you guys have posted cases, but you really need to step up your amount of input. EVERYONE needs to be giving reads as much as possible. Being wrong isn't a crime, but sitting back and letting others lead the discussion just means you have less "town power" and people are going to be more hesitant to listen to what you have to say when you do randomly decide to chime in. While there is nothing wrong to urge other players to contribute, I feel uneasy when this comes from a person where his filter consist of one case against players that are already being presented, and the rest of them were mostly him passively commenting on other people's cases, I feel like there is plausible + Show Spoiler + although speculative Keirathi also said this: Show nested quote + I'm not going to make bad cases just to put pressure on people. Like I also said, making cases is what keeps the game moving, but when they are just bad cases you give the scum ammunition to push their own agendas. Are you actually discouraging discussions here? For all I know scums can push their own agendas based on these "bad" discussions as well? @MrMedic I hope you don't miss your next vote, and since you claimed you are going to be free, (And I doubt scums would target you if you aren't one yourself), I would like to see more post from you in day 2. Don't worry, if you are town, just post when you see someone doing something scummy, and don't wait for another person to say it first: It will almost paint you in the wrong light. I refrained from looking at Shady Sands and Mordanis because the filters that I have been reading the entire time was theirs + Golbat's. I noticed Show nested quote + Weird, why didn't he mention he had a wedding to attend in any of his earlier posts in the thread? This seems like a pretty strange after-the-fact excuse for any strange patterns of activity. One thing that is important for everyone in town to start watching for now is activity patterns and posting patterns. Scum will tend to post with an identifiable ringleader and others following in their footsteps... and they will often all make excuses about IRL commitments to assuage any doubts about odd patterns in their collective posting histories. So looks like you will be FoS me too, since I have been giving "excuses about IRL commitments"? I think it is best to declare when you're available to play so when you're being called out at least people knows you won't be around to response. That said, it's late over here so I won't be around in 8 hours, so in case I got killed, please consider my points here. But then, I learned something... I could still use the quote above and waste zero space. + Show Spoiler + On July 30 2012 02:29 alan133 wrote: I just got back. I was called out right after breakfast and did have any internet access until now when I got back home. I just went through a few filters would like to throw out a few points I noticed, in case I die. @Keirathi After going through Kei's filter, goodkarma's case on Kei made much more sense. Kei's first page in his filter since the game started has literally zero scum hunting. He dedicate most of his post passively defending targets of other people's case. (Note: I directly copy paste text so text formatting is not preserved) Show nested quote + To be fair, he said he looked through 20 mafia games (which I assumed was an exaggeration, but I'll let him clarify), not that he looked through the *LAST* 20 games, or specifically looked at newbie games. Overall, I'm leaning townie on Shady despite the case against him. He feels like a townie getting caught up in wild conspiracy/connection theories rather than a scum. I don't think scum can be quite that obvious about it, especially this early into day 1. Show nested quote + I am not going to post his entire filter, look at his filter and I would be surprised if you don't agree with me.@goodkarma: I mostly agree with your assessment of Mordanis. I feel like it would be a really silly play for a mafia to try to pull this early. It *WAS* a suspiciously weak case though, but mostly I feel like it was a townie trying to find something to push rather than a scum trying to start a bandwagon. I'll be keeping my eye on him though, that's for sure. About your suspects: aRyuujin I don't really have much to comment about him. I feel like its too early to start qualifying people as lurkers. It is the middle of the night in US times, so I suspect a lot of people are sleeping. MrMedic In his longest post, he did have some good insight despite how hard the post was to follow. He noted how each point of the Mordanis case against me seemed to be trying to paint me dying in a good light. Would definitely like to hear more from him, hopefully in an easier to follow writing style next time though. Promethelax People have to work and sleep. I've played with Prom before, I have no doubt that he'll be active when he has time. People have to work and sleep, they can't be active 24 hours a day. That being said, Prom has been scum in most (all?) of his previous games, so I'm definitely keeping an eye on him This is the only post where I found him writing a case Show nested quote + I'm not sure what time I'll be able to get on tomorrow because my grandpa was put in the hospital today, so I want to lay out my cases for today preemptively so that people have time to discuss them. Golbat (as an aside, am I the only person that has trouble typing Golbat instead of Goldbat?) :[ The only reasoning he gave for hopping on the Mordanis vote was + Show Spoiler +. Saying "that's scummy because I read it was supposed to be scummy!" isn't really making a case. Minor point, but he said + Show Spoiler +, then still voted for Mordanis before everyone has posted. I understand that the vote was in response to Mordanis' second big post, but still inconsistent. Another mintor point, since he refuted it, but in his list post, he called out Mordanis for and OMGUS vote against him, but in the same post he questions why I didn't make an OMGUS case against Mordanis for his early case on me+ Show Spoiler +, despite the fact that I defended myself both times. No convictions in his reads, giving himself an out if he is wrong + Show Spoiler + He's so wishy-washy there, even though just 2.5 hours before he had said + Show Spoiler + Along the same line of being flip-floppy, as soon as anyone questioned his vote, he immediately hopped off of the Mordanis vote and asserted that it was only because he was an over-zealous noob + Show Spoiler + Repeatedly uses being a noob to excuse his play. We are all noobs, it's not an excuse. Throwing it around like that just feels like a desperate attempt to correct your mistakes. Along the same lines, I find it scummy that he repeatedly feels the need to proclaim his townie status. EVERYONE is going to say that they are townie, so repeating it a bunch of times to sheep town into believing it doesn't necessarily make it true. I used a similar argument to nail Promethelax as scum in Newbie XIX after he kept repeating that he was townie over and over again in the thread. From his post responding to karma: + Show Spoiler + Didn't he do the same thing (cast suspicion on MrMedic) in his big list post? Yes, yes he did + Show Spoiler + Ryu pointed this out, but I just want to expand on it. Farther down in the same post, he said + Show Spoiler + So he say this can be an inconsistency? Then why has he done it not once, but TWICE? + Show Spoiler + While I don't believe that saying you're willing to change your mind in the light of new evidence is necessarily inconsistent, I don't get how you can call someone else out for doing something that you are doing yourself. Two other people that I am minorly interested in: goodkarma I find repeatedly pushing to have lurkers lynched is an anti-town trait. Our goal is to lynch scum. You claim it's impossible to make solid reads on day 1, but without people making reads, our ability to get successful lynches later in the game diminishes. Repeatedly trying to sheep us back onto lurkers and away from active cases is suspicious. Mordanis While I don't find his initial case against me particularly suspicious (other than the fact that it was pure WIFOM) because it could reasonably have been made by either town or mafia, he hasn't full escaped my notice. He repeatedly tried to assert that I wasn't blue. What good is that information to town, and why did he feel the need to point it out? Town never has a reason to "blue hunt", but scum always does. I really feel like Golbat is our best chance of flipping scum at the moment, so: ##Vote Golbat Also, this post gives me a "funny" feeling: Show nested quote + Also aRyuujin, alan, Obvious, and Prom: you guys have overall been pretty quiet comparatively as well. At least you guys have posted cases, but you really need to step up your amount of input. EVERYONE needs to be giving reads as much as possible. Being wrong isn't a crime, but sitting back and letting others lead the discussion just means you have less "town power" and people are going to be more hesitant to listen to what you have to say when you do randomly decide to chime in. While there is nothing wrong to urge other players to contribute, I feel uneasy when this comes from a person where his filter consist of one case against players that are already being presented, and the rest of them were mostly him passively commenting on other people's cases, I feel like there is plausible + Show Spoiler + although speculative Keirathi also said this: Show nested quote + I'm not going to make bad cases just to put pressure on people. Like I also said, making cases is what keeps the game moving, but when they are just bad cases you give the scum ammunition to push their own agendas. Are you actually discouraging discussions here? For all I know scums can push their own agendas based on these "bad" discussions as well? @MrMedic I hope you don't miss your next vote, and since you claimed you are going to be free, (And I doubt scums would target you if you aren't one yourself), I would like to see more post from you in day 2. Don't worry, if you are town, just post when you see someone doing something scummy, and don't wait for another person to say it first: It will almost paint you in the wrong light. I refrained from looking at Shady Sands and Mordanis because the filters that I have been reading the entire time was theirs + Golbat's. I noticed Show nested quote + Weird, why didn't he mention he had a wedding to attend in any of his earlier posts in the thread? This seems like a pretty strange after-the-fact excuse for any strange patterns of activity. One thing that is important for everyone in town to start watching for now is activity patterns and posting patterns. Scum will tend to post with an identifiable ringleader and others following in their footsteps... and they will often all make excuses about IRL commitments to assuage any doubts about odd patterns in their collective posting histories. So looks like you will be FoS me too, since I have been giving "excuses about IRL commitments"? I think it is best to declare when you're available to play so when you're being called out at least people knows you won't be around to response. That said, it's late over here so I won't be around in 8 hours, so in case I got killed, please consider my points here. Spoiler long quotes instead of padding your posts and drowning discussion. If you're thinking of posting an unspoilered long quote: DON'T DO IT | ||
Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On July 30 2012 02:29 alan133 wrote: Keirathi also said this: Show nested quote + I'm not going to make bad cases just to put pressure on people. Like I also said, making cases is what keeps the game moving, but when they are just bad cases you give the scum ammunition to push their own agendas. Are you actually discouraging discussions here? For all I know scums can push their own agendas based on these "bad" discussions as well? You are right, scum can push agendas from "bad" discussion. That's exactly what I said. My point was that pointing out every little thing that you find scummy isn't helping the thread find scum, because one or two little scummy blips does not a scum make. THAT'S the reason I put my scum reads all into one big post. Its much harder for scum to refute a lot of points at one time than one or two points on multiple occasions. Also, things like my reply to goodkarma ARE scumhunting in a sense. By saying that I find people townie, I am narrowing down my suspect list. | ||
| ||
The PiG Daily
Best Games of SC
Clem vs Solar
ByuN vs Astrea
Rogue vs Spirit
Clem vs ShoWTimE
Dark vs ByuN
Rogue vs Classic
Zoun vs ByuN
[ Submit Event ] |
StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War League of Legends Counter-Strike Super Smash Bros Other Games Organizations Counter-Strike Other Games StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War Other Games StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War
StarCraft 2 • Berry_CruncH331 StarCraft: Brood War• practicex 96 • AfreecaTV YouTube • intothetv • Kozan • IndyKCrew • Laughngamez YouTube • Migwel • sooper7s |
SOOP
NightMare vs Cure
SC Evo Complete
WardiTV Invitational
Ryung vs GuMiho
Cure vs TBD
MaxPax vs Trap
Solar vs ShoWTimE
SHIN vs TBD
Clem vs Spirit
3D!Clan Event
Wayne vs Shameless
Strange vs Nikich
MilkiCow vs Nicoract
MindelVK vs YoungYakov
BSL: ProLeague
Zhanhun vs Tarson
Dandy vs Tech
CSO Cup
Replay Cast
Sparkling Tuna Cup
SC Evo Complete
WardiTV Invitational
[ Show More ] BSL: ProLeague
Bonyth vs Dienmax
DragOn vs Sterling
Replay Cast
Wardi Open
StarCraft2.fi
OlimoLeague
StarCraft2.fi
StarCraft2.fi
The PondCast
|
|