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I sent that to you because after yesterday I thought you were the most townie. And I also assumed you had similar thoughts about what's going on given how you, like me, questioned the planning of gonzaw and Meapak the other day.
If that's the way you're going to be I don't know what to do. I don't think a townie in their right mind would just reveal that in the thread. Jubjub?
I will follow the plan. Only because Wiggles is dying and I think he's mafia.
Despite that, I will stand here and say that gonzaw is likely mafia. His plan does not make sense and does not fit in with what he's been pushing all game. My guess that there is still night KP floating around is just an idea. That's because the night kills are so sporatic and random. If he has a night KP left he has just won the game with his plan.
I'm thinking that gonzaw is actually on BC's team. It seems likely that BC's team shot Foolishness. Foolishness told me before he died that BC always shoots him when he is mafia. That makes sense that it happened this game since Foolishness was suspicious of him right before he died. If this is true it means that chaoser and gonzaw both voted the same the day after BC was lynched. I find that unlikely but given how much Foolishness talked with gonzaw about mafia votes I can't rule it out.
Given how the night kills have turned out I'm thinking that each mafia team has 2 hits that they can't use consecutively. Palmar's team shot Ace and wherebugsgo. BC's team shot Foolishness and nobody else. 3rd party shot syllogism. This is just speculation and not what I'm trying to argue.
What I wonder is, why are we going through with a plan to lynch all the "suspicious" people when there are still 6 people alive and we are not in lylo as you claim? This plan seems like a dangerous rush to just end the game now. Everyone seems to agree that Wiggles is mafia. Let's just kill him and talk some more.
You and Meapak have been soooo sure all game that we're not in lylo and that we have time. The past two days you have just wanted to lynch one person and move on. Take things slowly. Now we need to kill 3 people at once? That does not follow. Not to mention I've heard Meapak, gonzaw, and ET all say that they think sloosh is one of their top town reads at one point in the game. Earlier in the game people said the same thing about me. I understand opinions will change. But this is just flat out silly and does not make sense.
Why does ET get the free pass to safety but Sloosh does not? I agree that ET is likely town but sloosh has done far more in the thread than ET has.
Furthermore you're kingmaker scenario is ridiculous. A townie would not settle for a draw. There have been minor bumps, but town has outperformed mafia I think. Also like I said if you claim we're not in lylo and there's no more night kills why rush to finish the game and risk a draw/kingmaker?
If you're a townie and reading this, you should not be happy with this plan when there is a possibility for a draw. Simple solution? Let's just kill Wiggles and talk some more. We have time right?
You are way too adamant about their not being any more night kills. Personally I think it's rather silly that mafia we're given so little KP. Or not given some role to help them along. This game has gone on for a long time. We all know the longer a game goes the harder it is for mafia. I don't find it reasonable the hosts set this game up knowing that for the mafia to win they would have to survive 8-9 days. PM manipulation can only get you so far before you slip. You are too confident about what is going on and how the setup of the game is. Meapak too.
Your plan does not make sense from a town perspective. There has to be an agenda behind it. Everyone should be able to see this. Either gonzaw is mafia (most likely) or Meapak or ET has puppet strings attached to him. I don't find that likely because gonzaw is outspoken and is able to think for himself. I don't think he would let that happen.
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I also enjoy how you constantly say things like, "we'll just deal with it the next day". You clearly know too much about the setup.
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On May 21 2012 15:32 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2012 15:19 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Why do you think EchelonTee is town exactly? Why would you ask me that question, and what does this have to do with the plan? You know, you can comment on it as well. You also seem to completely ignore sandro's flip and its repercussions. I remember you saying that ET and someone else would both be Harimoto, ONLY because of voting patterns. However I also remember you thinking sandro was Yokoya, so surely your reads would change by now, considering you ONLY used voting patterns to determine them, right? But well, I think you are scum Wiggles, so it doesn't matter actually matter what you vote. Although please vote NO to follow the plan so we can end the game earlier. For people that still ask me "Why do you think ET is town? bla bla bla bla". ET was part of our plans since Day 4 and has been in the loop ever since. He knew about every plan since then. He knew the plans when chaoser was lynched, the plans when Palmar got lynched and the one where sandroba got lynched. He never tried to stop those, so unless you say he just bussed all his teammates since Day 4 to win solo or something he's town. He is clear with his reads ever since the game started as well, and if you want to take meta into account, he seems to care about the game and is not acting to his scum meta at all (for instance, check SoaF). Now that we are over that, if any of you want to seriously consider MZ or ET as scum, then make a convincing case other than "oh he voted opposite sandroba/chaoser one day". If not, then you should have no qualms over following this plan. Even if you still think MZ/ET is scum, then still follow the plan and we'll deal with that once we get to D9. Why wouldn't I ask, and how is it not related to the plan, when he's one of the people you want to bring to the last three? You obviously think both of him and MZ are town, so if you don't win doing this plan, then you'll have to start to actually think about why you think they're town. Honestly, your circle you've had going on has doesn't exactly have the best record. If you don't count Palmar, you're 1 for 3, out of prplhz, Cephiro, and Chaoser. If you count Palmar, even though your circle originally defended him as town, then you're still only 2 for 4. Add me in when I flip town, and it's even worse. So, to say I don't exactly trust you to make a sound judgement in an endgame scenario is putting it lightly. Even now, you can't figure out anything, and just want to flip everyone at the same time. So, it would be nice if actually explained any of your reads when I ask, instead of going off on some stupid rant because you think you're the towniest town to ever town, when town is only even close to winning since it seems like the scum ran out of fucking bullets.
I'm not claiming to have all the answers, but I'm not the one trying to make decisions for the whole town without giving any reasoning. So, if you want me to follow your plan, give me your reasons for wanting to flip the people you want to flip, instead of being a dick about it.
Also, I never said people would be something ONLY because of voting patterns. Do you even read what I write? I thought Sandroba was on BC's team based on voting patterns, that was wrong though, so it doesn't matter. That wasn't the basis for my read though. I said Katina was scum, using voting patterns as a basis, but it's also supported by how she's acting, which I wrote. I haven't changed that read. The last scum is one of Sloosh/ET, probably, so that's why I'm asking why you think ET is town.
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bravo katina, you just managed to call every single one of gonzaw, myself, and ET scum at one point. Get some consistency, if you had stuck with just one of us you might have some credibility but right now you're just scum grasping for straws.
As for sloosh, that's a very impressive move which shows a real understanding of the game and I applaud him for his decision.
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lol Katina
If scum have KP, then gonzaw is scum
Great reasoning there.
If scum had any KP left, then they would have used it yesterday when they knew they would surely lose. They didn't so they very likely have no KP left at all. And I don't know wtf that "BC's team shot Foolishness" assertion is. Yeah most likely you are Yokoya and actually shot Foolishness yourself.
Also, Meapak is right, I think you FoSed all of me/ET/MZ at some point.
No townie would settle for a draw
Wait...didn't you think Wiggles is scum? If that's the case, then how can we ever get into the "2 of the trio are scum" scenario that supposedly is the one we would get a draw in?
If this is true it means that chaoser and gonzaw both voted the same the day after BC was lynched. I find that unlikely but given how much Foolishness talked with gonzaw about mafia votes I can't rule it out.
So you FoS me out of nowhere with justifying it with some bullshit speculation, and then you actually say you find it unlikely I'm scumbuddies with chaoser? Yet you keep FoSing me?
Also, why are you convinced I'm Yokoya and not Harimoto for instance? lol
Glad you decided to follow the plan though.
@Wiggles: Those "reasonings" you are talking about have been mentioned over and over again for the past 3 or so days. And only ET and MZ are the ones required to know them by now.
Just follow the plan Wiggles. See? Even Katina will follow it. If sloosh follows it, then you+Katina will be in the majority, or there will be a draw. The only way the game can continue is if you follow it, so just do so.
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You are the one taking charge with everything. As I said it makes the most sense that you are the mafia, not ET or Meapak. Those two have been rather passive compared to you. You have been the one actively doing things this game. While the most of what you've done has been pro town, this plan is not pro town at all. It's pushing a mafia agenda.
You guys fail to address my argument. This plan is not pro town and should not be followed. Whether you think I'm mafia or not has nothing to do with my reasoning. Any townie should be able to see this.
You both fail to answer a crucial question. Why are we not just killing Wiggles today?
You all claim we can just "kill people tomorrow". Like we have all the time in the world. Now you're acting like we don't have time. Obviously there is something wrong here.
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As I said it makes the most sense that you are the mafia, not ET or Meapak.
No, initially you said that ET made sense as Yokoya and MZ made sense as Harimoto. Now all of a sudden I make sense as Yokoya and Wiggles as scum (I guess you think he's Harimoto then).
What made you change your mind like that? Oh I know, it was because I made a plan that would kill you
Why are we not just killing Wiggles today?
We WILL kill Wiggles today. The question is: why shouldn't we kill you in the process?
While the most of what you've done has been pro town, this plan is not pro town at all. It's pushing a mafia agenda.
Right, I'm a scum that everything he did in the whole game was "pro-town"; yet now that I want to kill you I'm suddenly pushing a mafia agenda. Makes perfect sense.
You still haven't addressed what the "No townie would settle for a draw" part has any bearing at all if you think that scenario is impossible (since you think Wiggles is scum).
I do want to end this game as quickly as possible because it's becoming boring and tiring. It's been like 1 week where almost nothing happened other than flips and people following plans. If scum don't want to surrender themselves then we'll just force them to.
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On May 22 2012 07:36 Katina wrote: You are the one taking charge with everything. As I said it makes the most sense that you are the mafia, not ET or Meapak. Those two have been rather passive compared to you. You have been the one actively doing things this game. While the most of what you've done has been pro town, this plan is not pro town at all. It's pushing a mafia agenda.
You guys fail to address my argument. This plan is not pro town and should not be followed. Whether you think I'm mafia or not has nothing to do with my reasoning. Any townie should be able to see this.
You both fail to answer a crucial question. Why are we not just killing Wiggles today?
You all claim we can just "kill people tomorrow". Like we have all the time in the world. Now you're acting like we don't have time. Obviously there is something wrong here. Katina you should reread the thread. After bugs died I jumped in a grabbed the reins for a day. I assumed I was going to die that night so I preemptively tried to make sure gonzaw would have control for the next day. Since scum ran out of KP or something neither of us have died and I see no reason to try and wrest control of the thread from gonzaw for some reason. You have no idea how much the three of us have PM'd (gonzaw and myself especially), you pushing gonzaw simply because "he's the one taking charge" is utterly ridiculous. Does that mean that townies should never take charge? I'd like to remind you that since the day I took over from WBG, my circle has killed 5 people, 3 of them are scum, and there are scum from both teams in there. While gonzaw and I have created the majority of the plans, ET was constantly kept in the loop (even on the plans that we kept secret from the thread). Had any of us been scum it would have been really easy for scum to save our targets multiple times.
You really have no idea how our circle has worked so you jumping on gonzaw because he's been the most visible in the thread for the past few days is mindbogglingly dumb.
As for your "crucial question" of only killing wiggles, why wait? We can win the game today. We still have no idea how scum KP works, why run the risk of the remaining scum killing one of us tonight when we can win today.
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Day 8: Round B
Round A has concluded. The tally is as follows:
No: (4) gonzaw Katina Mr. Wiggles slOosh
Yes: (2) EchelonTee Meapak_Ziphh
Players who voted Yes are in the minority. They are immune to lynch this round. This means that the eligible candidates for Round B are:
gonzaw Katina Mr. Wiggles slOosh
Round B (Downsizing Round) ends in 23 hours at 8PM PDT (23:00 EDT (-04:00) your time). Please PM me with 5 names of players you wish to continue into Day 2 before then.
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Right. Let's do this. Don't argue with scum, it doesn't work. Sending in my votes.
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Great.
You know what to do people.
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On May 22 2012 09:04 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2012 07:36 Katina wrote: You are the one taking charge with everything. As I said it makes the most sense that you are the mafia, not ET or Meapak. Those two have been rather passive compared to you. You have been the one actively doing things this game. While the most of what you've done has been pro town, this plan is not pro town at all. It's pushing a mafia agenda.
You guys fail to address my argument. This plan is not pro town and should not be followed. Whether you think I'm mafia or not has nothing to do with my reasoning. Any townie should be able to see this.
You both fail to answer a crucial question. Why are we not just killing Wiggles today?
You all claim we can just "kill people tomorrow". Like we have all the time in the world. Now you're acting like we don't have time. Obviously there is something wrong here. Katina you should reread the thread. After bugs died I jumped in a grabbed the reins for a day. I assumed I was going to die that night so I preemptively tried to make sure gonzaw would have control for the next day. Since scum ran out of KP or something neither of us have died and I see no reason to try and wrest control of the thread from gonzaw for some reason. You have no idea how much the three of us have PM'd (gonzaw and myself especially), you pushing gonzaw simply because "he's the one taking charge" is utterly ridiculous. Does that mean that townies should never take charge? I'd like to remind you that since the day I took over from WBG, my circle has killed 5 people, 3 of them are scum, and there are scum from both teams in there. While gonzaw and I have created the majority of the plans, ET was constantly kept in the loop (even on the plans that we kept secret from the thread). Had any of us been scum it would have been really easy for scum to save our targets multiple times. You really have no idea how our circle has worked so you jumping on gonzaw because he's been the most visible in the thread for the past few days is mindbogglingly dumb. As for your "crucial question" of only killing wiggles, why wait? We can win the game today. We still have no idea how scum KP works, why run the risk of the remaining scum killing one of us tonight when we can win today. I was part of the circle until the past few days so I do know how it works. It's not like you guys keep things hidden.
Your last paragraph makes no sense. You just made my argument for me. We don't know how scum KP works. If us 3 die as planned and there's still a mafia alive it could be gg. If we just kill Wiggles and let things go another day then there's no risk of mafia KP interferring. And no you cannot for sure win the game today, because you don't know for sure who is mafia.
This plan makes no sense in regards to the other plan. Why didn't we do this yesterday? Wiggles, myself, and sandroba were all in the majority. Why didn't you advocate killing all of us yesterday? You claimed that we had time and there was no sense taking risks. Now you want to take a huge risk.
Your actions are inconsistent with the past few days. I find it hard to believe that both you (Meapak) and gonzaw are mafia, so it makes more sense that gonzaw is mafia and you are just being manipulated.
Did gonzaw come up with this plan or did you? Or did ET? From my perspective and after being in your circle earlier in the game it seems most likely that gonzaw came up with this plan. Hence he is the mafia. From his perspective it makes a lot of sense. He couldn't try to enact a plan like this until there were only a few people alive and chance of interference was negligible. Don't jubjub along. There is clearly an agenda behind this plan.
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Just give up Katina, nobody will give you votes today and you'll die. So just surrender and/or follow the plan.
On May 23 2012 03:53 Katina wrote: We don't know how scum KP works. If us 3 die as planned and there's still a mafia alive it could be gg
I am very sure MZ and ET are town, so I don't care how scum KP works and if there is some "hidden" KP like you stated, since we win either way.
If we just kill Wiggles and let things go another day then there's no risk of mafia KP interferring
You just said there could be "hidden" KP. That KP could strike us after we single-handily lynch Wiggles, right? That would put us in a 3-1 situation, which is MYLO if there is another "hidden" KP. Do you seriously think that's better than this then? Of course if we lynch Wiggles and this "hidden" KP strikes me/ET/MZ, you'll just FoS sloosh or one of us and try to survive one more lynch
This plan makes no sense in regards to the other plan. Why didn't we do this yesterday? Wiggles, myself, and sandroba were all in the majority. Why didn't you advocate killing all of us yesterday? You claimed that we had time and there was no sense taking risks. Now you want to take a huge risk.
Are you kidding me?
I talked with MZ about it, and I was thinking about trying to kill all of you guys on Day 7, but we couldn't since we believed there were still 2 Harimotos other than sandroba left. Those 2 could easily give votes to each other to save themselves, and forcing a 3-2-1 or 3-2 situation with 2 scum from the same team is dangerous.
I'm going to uni in a few minutes and be back 1-2 hours before the deadline, so everybody vote accordingly until then.
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lol you took orders from us, you were never part of the circle.
You're right, we don't know how scum KP works, that's why we're killing all three of you today so we don't have to worry about scum suddenly killing us all tonight. And yes, we can for sure win today.
Yesterday we made it look like we might try and multilynch to see who panicked, it worked surprisingly well tbh. Now the opportunity to kill all of you has presented itself so why not take it.
If you're going to make up statements like "my actions are inconsistent" you really should at least make up some facts to back them up.
As for the plans, the one that killed palmar/prp with the phony voting systems was my idea, the one yesterday that killed sandro but made it look like we were killing multiple people was gonzaw's idea. Really, you're just flailing at this point.
Let's look at you for a second. You have hardly played this game at all. Other than occasional jabs at Palmar, you have refused to do anything useful what so ever. You're riding on foolishness's read of you. But suddenly, now that there's a very real chance you'll die, you're talkative. You have no real case against any of ET/gonzaw/myself so instead you're reduced to wildly throwing accusations which make no sense if you think about them logically for a second (I mean seriously, is making plans really a scum tactic?). The PM to sloosh was just icing on the cake, only a scum would feel the need to quietly try and spread distrust. If you were a townie, you could... idk... make an analysis in the thread to prove your suspicions?
Could we end the day as soon as protact receives all the votes?
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On May 23 2012 04:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: lol you took orders from us, you were never part of the circle.
You're right, we don't know how scum KP works, that's why we're killing all three of you today so we don't have to worry about scum suddenly killing us all tonight. And yes, we can for sure win today.
Yesterday we made it look like we might try and multilynch to see who panicked, it worked surprisingly well tbh. Now the opportunity to kill all of you has presented itself so why not take it.
If you're going to make up statements like "my actions are inconsistent" you really should at least make up some facts to back them up.
As for the plans, the one that killed palmar/prp with the phony voting systems was my idea, the one yesterday that killed sandro but made it look like we were killing multiple people was gonzaw's idea. Really, you're just flailing at this point.
Let's look at you for a second. You have hardly played this game at all. Other than occasional jabs at Palmar, you have refused to do anything useful what so ever. You're riding on foolishness's read of you. But suddenly, now that there's a very real chance you'll die, you're talkative. You have no real case against any of ET/gonzaw/myself so instead you're reduced to wildly throwing accusations which make no sense if you think about them logically for a second (I mean seriously, is making plans really a scum tactic?). The PM to sloosh was just icing on the cake, only a scum would feel the need to quietly try and spread distrust. If you were a townie, you could... idk... make an analysis in the thread to prove your suspicions?
Could we end the day as soon as protact receives all the votes? I am certain that gonzaw is mafia now and I'm certain that you are not. This has nothing to do with me dying. If you guys had picked me and me alone to die today I would sit here and defend myself as much as I could. The problem is the plan has a clear agenda behind it. It is not pro town. As I said I don't think you are mafia but when tomorrow rolls around you have to kill gonzaw. I didn't mean to say your actions are inconsistent. The plan is inconsistent with your circle. And I'm sure gonzaw's the reason for it.
Open your eyes and don't be a jubjub.
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wait why do you think gonzaw is scum? b/c he has been coming up with the plans? I fail to see how that's inherently scummy. it takes a lot of work to make those plans and he has always come up with contingencies and measured calculations to ensure that no mass deaths could occur. If I was scum controlling, I would have surely kept my teamates alive through flukes, or organized a mass death. yeah, he's promoting a mass death now, but why now and not before when his teammates were still alive? He could've just kept on single lynching, and no one would ever suspect him b/c almost everyone trusts him too much.
votes sent in
Wiggles hasn't said anything during the phase, I feel good about him being scum. I remember him fighting to the last breath when I mislynched him in JubJub (him town me scum)
I feel bad about sloosh dying cuz im pretty sure he's town take one for the team brudder
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On May 23 2012 07:35 Katina wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 04:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: lol you took orders from us, you were never part of the circle.
You're right, we don't know how scum KP works, that's why we're killing all three of you today so we don't have to worry about scum suddenly killing us all tonight. And yes, we can for sure win today.
Yesterday we made it look like we might try and multilynch to see who panicked, it worked surprisingly well tbh. Now the opportunity to kill all of you has presented itself so why not take it.
If you're going to make up statements like "my actions are inconsistent" you really should at least make up some facts to back them up.
As for the plans, the one that killed palmar/prp with the phony voting systems was my idea, the one yesterday that killed sandro but made it look like we were killing multiple people was gonzaw's idea. Really, you're just flailing at this point.
Let's look at you for a second. You have hardly played this game at all. Other than occasional jabs at Palmar, you have refused to do anything useful what so ever. You're riding on foolishness's read of you. But suddenly, now that there's a very real chance you'll die, you're talkative. You have no real case against any of ET/gonzaw/myself so instead you're reduced to wildly throwing accusations which make no sense if you think about them logically for a second (I mean seriously, is making plans really a scum tactic?). The PM to sloosh was just icing on the cake, only a scum would feel the need to quietly try and spread distrust. If you were a townie, you could... idk... make an analysis in the thread to prove your suspicions?
Could we end the day as soon as protact receives all the votes? I am certain that gonzaw is mafia now and I'm certain that you are not. This has nothing to do with me dying. If you guys had picked me and me alone to die today I would sit here and defend myself as much as I could. The problem is the plan has a clear agenda behind it. It is not pro town. As I said I don't think you are mafia but when tomorrow rolls around you have to kill gonzaw. I didn't mean to say your actions are inconsistent. The plan is inconsistent with your circle. And I'm sure gonzaw's the reason for it. Open your eyes and don't be a jubjub. If I may borrow from Ace for a minute, I feel this is appropriate:
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On May 23 2012 07:54 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2012 07:35 Katina wrote:On May 23 2012 04:16 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: lol you took orders from us, you were never part of the circle.
You're right, we don't know how scum KP works, that's why we're killing all three of you today so we don't have to worry about scum suddenly killing us all tonight. And yes, we can for sure win today.
Yesterday we made it look like we might try and multilynch to see who panicked, it worked surprisingly well tbh. Now the opportunity to kill all of you has presented itself so why not take it.
If you're going to make up statements like "my actions are inconsistent" you really should at least make up some facts to back them up.
As for the plans, the one that killed palmar/prp with the phony voting systems was my idea, the one yesterday that killed sandro but made it look like we were killing multiple people was gonzaw's idea. Really, you're just flailing at this point.
Let's look at you for a second. You have hardly played this game at all. Other than occasional jabs at Palmar, you have refused to do anything useful what so ever. You're riding on foolishness's read of you. But suddenly, now that there's a very real chance you'll die, you're talkative. You have no real case against any of ET/gonzaw/myself so instead you're reduced to wildly throwing accusations which make no sense if you think about them logically for a second (I mean seriously, is making plans really a scum tactic?). The PM to sloosh was just icing on the cake, only a scum would feel the need to quietly try and spread distrust. If you were a townie, you could... idk... make an analysis in the thread to prove your suspicions?
Could we end the day as soon as protact receives all the votes? I am certain that gonzaw is mafia now and I'm certain that you are not. This has nothing to do with me dying. If you guys had picked me and me alone to die today I would sit here and defend myself as much as I could. The problem is the plan has a clear agenda behind it. It is not pro town. As I said I don't think you are mafia but when tomorrow rolls around you have to kill gonzaw. I didn't mean to say your actions are inconsistent. The plan is inconsistent with your circle. And I'm sure gonzaw's the reason for it. Open your eyes and don't be a jubjub. If I may borrow from Ace for a minute, I feel this is appropriate: And if I may quote Ace for a minute, I feel it is appropriate:
On August 06 2011 20:35 Ace wrote:Even dumber than 2 years ago. Player A: Prove you're Town. Player B: What? That absurdly ridi- Player A: He can't do it! Lynch him! Jubjubs (chanting): It makes so much sense! Lynch him! or the equally stupid because it's the same thing: Player A: Prove you aren't Mafia. Player B: .... Player A: He's defending himself! Lynch him! Defending yourself is a scumtell! Jubjubs: My god! Why didn't we see this before! *smacks collective forehead* There is a difference between ignorance and stupidity. Try to be on the ignorant side, ok?
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It's cool ET - we win as a team and its fine if I die in the process (albeit in a manner far different from what I'm used to, which is getting shot D1). I'll be here tomorrow to (hopefully) celebrate our hard earned victory, or if not to type in the good old GG if scum decide to prolong the game even more.
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