Match Making Rating Tool - Page 16

Malhavoc

Italy308 Posts

May 14 2012 21:12 GMT

#301

Yet again I lost all the data ;(

..could it be that it doesn't save when I shut down my computer? I don't usually close SC2Gears manually, since I make it start with windows as well. You should REALLY implement a less unpredictable saving mechanism!

BTW, I've noticed also some bugs with the graph: games which weren't able to provide any MMR ended up at the far left of the graph, so that the X axys looked somethings like GAME 1, 4, 5, 2, 3. Checking and unchecking "show opponent" fix and breaks that ( I mean, only one of the two graph views really worked correctly).

thurst0n

United States611 Posts

May 14 2012 21:18 GMT

#302

It seems like no one reads the OP. This program is not all-knowing, it needs certain information to be able to calculate an MMR for any given game. The MMR calculated is but only a range based on how you stack up within your tier, which most likely your tier offset is unkown. Not every game will yield results for the graph, but every game will still be reported for data collection and will ultimately help find a more accurate MMR estimate. Please take the time to read the entire OP as well as a few pages into the thread to understand what is really going on.

This should be in OP for reference as well http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=332391

Punic

United States152 Posts

May 14 2012 21:45 GMT

#303

For some reason it wont let me configure the plug in? Any suggestions?

TheRabidDeer

United States3806 Posts

May 14 2012 22:56 GMT

#304

This definitely illustrates how annoying it is trying to get into masters... I decided to go ahead and bump my 2nd account (which I used for funday monday/offracing) to masters and it has had me above the MMR line for masters for a while now... at 128 and it still hasnt promoted me lol... getting closer to my main accounts 350-400MMR though, wonder when itll finally happen.

skeldark

Germany2223 Posts

May 15 2012 00:07 GMT

#305

On May 13 2012 23:24 Malhavoc wrote:
I think I've bumped into some sort of bug.. today I played a couple of games, then went back to SC2Gears and found the plugin disabled (could have been crashed?). After re-enabling it, I noticed it lost my profile configuration, and all the games data as well!

So, to ask again: since we can't recover data from replays, is there an easy way to backup the data and avoid losing it like that?

EDIT: after a PC restart, I find the settings still there (my profile is correctly entered) but all the game data lost again! Seems like it hasn't saved this time..

You have a saving button now. also i dont save 0 data any more,
To make a backup copy the folder Sc2gears\User Content\Plugin file cache\mmr.plugin.MMRPlugin\

On May 14 2012 06:31 Canti_the_Angel wrote:

Show nested quote +

From what Ive gathered, it only collects on games where opponents have a bonus pool and SC2 Gears has to be running during the match.

Not any more. Also ramscanner and predata. If data is not stored check the log file why and post here i explain you than why.

On May 14 2012 17:27 SchfiftyFive wrote:
Doesn't work, and causes sc2gears to not work, just says version check and freezes the program, update soon or corrupt program?

download newer version

On May 15 2012 04:53 MogA wrote:
Alright so i tested this aswell. But after six games ( 3 against master opponents others agains diamonds ) Thers no MMR i see + theres no graph. Anyone an idea what i could change ?

give me your verbose log and i can tell you. with "i dont see anything" i can not tell you whats the problem.

On May 15 2012 05:01 FilthyRake wrote:
just wanted to say thanks for an awesome tool. I'm not masters yet, but I'm using it as much as possible to get you tons of data so that you can eventually do all the leagues

Thank you!

On May 15 2012 06:12 Malhavoc wrote:
Yet again I lost all the data ;(

..could it be that it doesn't save when I shut down my computer? I don't usually close SC2Gears manually, since I make it start with windows as well. You should REALLY implement a less unpredictable saving mechanism!

BTW, I've noticed also some bugs with the graph: games which weren't able to provide any MMR ended up at the far left of the graph, so that the X axys looked somethings like GAME 1, 4, 5, 2, 3. Checking and unchecking "show opponent" fix and breaks that ( I mean, only one of the two graph views really worked correctly).

save this folder i think about a better solution than the save button:

Sc2gears\User Content\Plugin file cache\mmr.plugin.MMRPlugin\

I look into this bug. Cant explain at the moment how this can happen.

On May 15 2012 06:18 thurst0n wrote:
It seems like no one reads the OP. This program is not all-knowing, it needs certain information to be able to calculate an MMR for any given game. The MMR calculated is but only a range based on how you stack up within your tier, which most likely your tier offset is unkown. Not every game will yield results for the graph, but every game will still be reported for data collection and will ultimately help find a more accurate MMR estimate. Please take the time to read the entire OP as well as a few pages into the thread to understand what is really going on.

This should be in OP for reference as well http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=332391

thx! oh and the link is in the op

On May 15 2012 06:45 Punic wrote:
For some reason it wont let me configure the plug in? Any suggestions?

config now in main program not in sc2gears config any more

On May 15 2012 07:56 TheRabidDeer wrote:
This definitely illustrates how annoying it is trying to get into masters... I decided to go ahead and bump my 2nd account (which I used for funday monday/offracing) to masters and it has had me above the MMR line for masters for a while now... at 128 and it still hasnt promoted me lol... getting closer to my main accounts 350-400MMR though, wonder when itll finally happen.

dont forget i guess the tiers. I have no idea in what dia tier you are so i just put you in the average dia tier.
It can be that you are in the lowest one and so many points under what you see. also the lines of promotion are a guess based on data of last sessions.
however if you take your games against master and get solid positive mmr you should get promoted soon.

EDIT:
just see 1k post for debug answers.
Damit!
I could use this one to troll idra fans or to hold a hate speech over a caster or make a long post why colossus are imbalanced or talk about racism of players or why bw-pros will own or discuss why team a should not pick player x....
When i think about it : this is not such a bad, 1k post ^^

TheRabidDeer

United States3806 Posts

May 15 2012 00:19 GMT

#306

On May 15 2012 09:07 skeldark wrote:

Show nested quote +

I am using known tiers only, and a lot of my games are against masters players so im guessing it should be fairly accurate. I know I will get promoted soon, just wanted to take note of how crazy sticky leagues are.

skeldark

Germany2223 Posts

May 15 2012 01:04 GMT

#307

On May 15 2012 09:19 TheRabidDeer wrote:

Show nested quote +

I laddered an account down and up for testing. If you dont crush throw a league he wants you to play 10-30 games before he gives you better enemys and so the chance to get promoted faster.

---
v 1.7 out soon.
Just have to make a quick ladder match to check everything is still fine

Malhavoc

Italy308 Posts

May 15 2012 05:54 GMT

#308

About the graph bug: it was the far right, not left, sorry: that's where no value points ended up

Ralethon

United States141 Posts

May 15 2012 05:58 GMT

#309

Use the tool for a bit and youl come to understand why MMR isnt displayed on the sc2 client. It fluctuates like crazy so knowing it honestly isnt very helpful.

pres.sure

Germany104 Posts

May 15 2012 06:08 GMT

#310

When i click on Plugins Menu - MMR-Stats - nothing happens (using v 1.7).

DyEnasTy

United States3714 Posts

May 15 2012 06:16 GMT

#311

Sigh, why cant Blizzard just realize that we "are big boys" and can handle the truth about how terrible we are?

Not_That

287 Posts

May 15 2012 07:17 GMT

#312

From my past 78 games as a 200-300 Master on EU, I would estimate that the Master-Diamond border runs at around 70-80 points (73...?). This is due to the fact that the lowest Master player I've encountered is 62 (few more in the 70s and 80s), while the highest Diamond players I've met were 85 (2 players at 85, few more in 70s).

Keep in mind the system waits until your moving average over last X games crosses the line before being confident enough to promote (or demote) you.

Here's the graph that I'm basing this on:

Bars are my MMR based on my opponent's adj points and adj points change entered into linear F with slope of 32. Blue bars are wins, red bars are losses, missing bars are games where opponent won and I don't have his adjusted points change data due to him refusing to say and me not running sc2gears plugin during match. Bars that extend to the top of the graph are matches against Diamond opponents where my MMR can not be calculated due to their unknown offset (you can completely ignore these bars, I keep them there to separate my games vs Diamond from my games vs Master where I am missing their adj change data for the match). Black line is my adjusted points and the dots are opponent's MMR (plus-minus 16).

link to excel sheet of my games

On May 15 2012 14:58 Ralethon wrote:
Use the tool for a bit and youl come to understand why MMR isnt displayed on the sc2 client. It fluctuates like crazy so knowing it honestly isnt very helpful.

Actually by now I think the reason Blizzard doesn't display MMR is the most obvious reason: they don't want players to look at their MMR and realize they're not improving. By having players looking at ladder points instead everyone feel like they're improving. MMR doesn't fluctuate all that much (look at my graph for an example).

The reason you see wild fluctuations is you're playing opponents below Master, and we can't tell your opponent's offset yet and each opponent has different offset. Basically the plugin gives you the best estimates that we currently have. Hopefully more players will use (and continue to use) this plugin so that we'll have better chance to figure things out better.

Malhavoc

Italy308 Posts

May 15 2012 07:49 GMT

#313

About guessing tiers of leagues under master: I think I understand that with enough data it should become possible in the end, but do we know if the divisions aren't changing from a season to another? And in particular, if a single division keeps it's tier modifier from a season to another? I think I've read somewhere that new divisions are created as necessary if new players join, but are older division kept from a season to another or not? Otherwise it would become almost impossible to get a division's tier having just a single season to do that, doesn't it?

Not_That

287 Posts

May 15 2012 08:13 GMT

#314

There are two things we have to find out regarding this:

1) What is the division tiers offsets. i.e. Diamond tier 1 500, tier 2 is 600, Platinum tier 1 is 100, etc etc.
2) Which division belongs to which tier.

#2 we'll definitely have to redo every season (and during seasons as new divisions get constantly added). Hopefully #1 is fixed between seasons and at worst only changes when Blizzard manually change it.

If you know #1, then figuring out #2 is fairly trivial.

fraGGer

United Kingdom51 Posts

May 15 2012 08:19 GMT

#315

From other's posts I understand masters MMR is around the 300-400 mark. I'm in diamond (unknown tier) but over 30 games or so the tool is consistently giving me data showing my MMR is around the 2400 mark???

Here's what my graph looks like:
[image loading]

Hairy

United Kingdom1169 Posts

May 15 2012 08:30 GMT

#316

On May 15 2012 16:17 Not_That wrote:

Show nested quote +

Bingo.

The whole ladder system is designed to encourage people to play more:

Icon rewards for playing more games
"Decals" for playing more games
Achievements for playing more games
Bonus pool that encourages you to play more games
Ladder points that always gradually increase (until you've played the HUGE amount of games required for your ladder points to 'match' your MMR
Seasons that reset your ladder points, helping to assure the previous point remains true
Losses are hidden, which hides from players the fact that they are only winning half of their games (or worse)

Blizzard don't hide information for fun - the whole system is cleverly geared up to encourage players to play more games and give the ILLUSION of progress, when in fact you may have been stagnating at the same old MMR for months. We may begrudge the lack of transparency in blizzard's system, but it probably does keep a lot of people playing the game that otherwise would have abandoned it.

skeldark

Germany2223 Posts

May 15 2012 10:52 GMT

#317

On May 15 2012 17:30 Hairy wrote:

Show nested quote +

Bingo.

The whole ladder system is designed to encourage people to play more:

Icon rewards for playing more games
"Decals" for playing more games
Achievements for playing more games
Bonus pool that encourages you to play more games
Ladder points that always gradually increase (until you've played the HUGE amount of games required for your ladder points to 'match' your MMR
Seasons that reset your ladder points, helping to assure the previous point remains true
Losses are hidden, which hides from players the fact that they are only winning half of their games (or worse)

They even said so in the beta days (a guy who was not making the system because he was busy with other game but talked with them over)
But that you stagnating on a level is normal for everything you do in life. Its such a basic fact that i think its childish from blizzard if they think they can hite this fact from their users.

The mmr should jump in higher leagues should be more solid in middle ones and should be very solid in average for 90% if we do it right.

Yello

Germany7411 Posts

May 15 2012 10:59 GMT

#318

On May 15 2012 19:52 skeldark wrote:

Show nested quote +

There is always room for improvement, if you really commit to something, you will get something done.

And I really like your tool and the time (and even your 1000th post) that you are committing to improve it. It works fine for me at the moment.
I love that I can see my MMR. Some people get depressed when they stagnate or see the truth about how bad they really are, for me that is just more motivation to improve. Thank you for motivating me

skeldark

Germany2223 Posts

May 15 2012 11:13 GMT

#319

On May 15 2012 17:19 fraGGer wrote:
From other's posts I understand masters MMR is around the 300-400 mark. I'm in diamond (unknown tier) but over 30 games or so the tool is consistently giving me data showing my MMR is around the 2400 mark???

Here's what my graph looks like:
[image loading]

Its around 2400 mark because i just guess this as offset of your diamond tier ( i dont know so i take the middle)
The mmr of your enemy is more solid and a better indicator because they always get the same offset ( yours)
If the matchmakingsystem works good: your mmr is near enemy mmr.

in your case im wrong about the offset. Your blue line shoot down often.
This means if the enemy was diamond (not platin) i dont gave you in this games enough offset points. The offset of the opponent!

This means that the opponent in this games are some dia tiers above you. Because i dont see many cases where you mmr is way over the opponent mmr, it does not happen that i gave you to less offset.
In other words you are in one of the lower dia tiers (0-2). Besides the offset you have this 100 -150 points.
I would say you are more around 2300 mmr.
Im working on something that does this analyse automatic.

.

The problem with this system is : It assume (player mmr = opponent mmr)
This is only the case, if there are enough people waiting to give you an equal opponent. So this works perfect for gold but don't work for gm at all.

On May 15 2012 19:59 Yello wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 15 2012 19:52 skeldark wrote:

On May 15 2012 17:30 Hairy wrote:

On May 15 2012 16:17 Not_That wrote:

Bingo.

The whole ladder system is designed to encourage people to play more:

Icon rewards for playing more games
"Decals" for playing more games
Achievements for playing more games
Bonus pool that encourages you to play more games
Ladder points that always gradually increase (until you've played the HUGE amount of games required for your ladder points to 'match' your MMR
Seasons that reset your ladder points, helping to assure the previous point remains true
Losses are hidden, which hides from players the fact that they are only winning half of their games (or worse)

Thx

TechSc2

Netherlands554 Posts

May 15 2012 22:51 GMT

#320

for a couple of games now it's been acting weird and not giving anymore results. here is the log

not blocked by firewall ( checked just in case )

+ Show Spoiler +

MMR-Calculator 1.7.1
Versionchecker: Version up to date
OK Timeclient successfull: Systemtime offset: 2015 ms
OK Gameobserver: Registry is fine!
--------------------------------------------------
Pretrigger Start
Ramscanner: name1 : Tech
Ramscanner: id1 : 294778
Ramscanner: name2 : KTlienchi
Ramscanner: id2 : 2251314
ERROR Webgrabber: Preplayer 1 failed!
ERROR Webgrabber: Preplayer 2 failed!
Pretrigger END!
--------------------------------------------------
Posttrigger Start
DATAERROR Webgrabber Postplayer1 failed!
DATAERROR Webgrabber Postplayer2 failed!
DATAERROR Check_before 1+2: Postgrabber failed!
DATAERROR Aftercheck : Both players invalid
PREPLAYER 1:

--- PLAYERSTART VALID: false ---
Error_Mes: ERROR: cant grab site 1!
playername: -
id: 0
playerlink: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/294778/1/Tech/
server: EU
league: ERROR
division_name: ERROR
gamedate: ERROR
mapname: ERROR
totalbonuspool: 447
Wins: -9999
Looses: -9999
points: -9999
bonus: -9999
change_points: -9999
adjusted_points: -9999
offset: 0
offsetknown: false
mmr: -9999
PLAYEREND

PREPLAYER 2:

--- PLAYERSTART VALID: false ---
Error_Mes: ERROR: cant grab site 1!
playername: -
id: 0
playerlink: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2251314/1/KTlienchi/
server: EU
league: ERROR
division_name: ERROR
gamedate: ERROR
mapname: ERROR
totalbonuspool: 447
Wins: -9999
Looses: -9999
points: -9999
bonus: -9999
change_points: -9999
adjusted_points: -9999
offset: 0
offsetknown: false
mmr: -9999
PLAYEREND

POSTPLAYER 1:

--- PLAYERSTART VALID: false ---
Error_Mes: ERROR: cant grab site 3! http://EU.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/294778/1/Tech/ladder/87067#current-rank
playername: Tech
id: 294778
playerlink: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/294778/1/Tech/
server: EU
league: error
division_name: ERROR
gamedate: ERROR
mapname: ERROR
totalbonuspool: 447
Wins: -9999
Looses: -9999
points: -9999
bonus: -9999
change_points: -9999
adjusted_points: -9999
offset: 0
offsetknown: false
mmr: -9999
PLAYEREND

POSTPLAYER 2:

--- PLAYERSTART VALID: false ---
Error_Mes: ERROR: cant grab site 2!
playername: KTlienchi
id: 2251314
playerlink: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2251314/1/KTlienchi/
server: EU
league: error
division_name: ERROR
gamedate: ERROR
mapname: ERROR
totalbonuspool: 447
Wins: -9999
Looses: -9999
points: -9999
bonus: -9999
change_points: -9999
adjusted_points: -9999
offset: 0
offsetknown: false
mmr: -9999
PLAYEREND

Dataset:
--- GAMESTART ---
TIME: 1337120216335
VALID: false
ERROR:
Player1_won false
--- GAMEEND ---

End posttrigger
--------------------------------------------------
Pretrigger Start
Ramscanner: name1 : Tech
Ramscanner: id1 : 294778
Ramscanner: name2 : Kurapica
Ramscanner: id2 : 965096
ERROR Webgrabber: Preplayer 1 failed!
ERROR Webgrabber: Preplayer 2 failed!
Pretrigger END!
--------------------------------------------------
Posttrigger Start
DATAERROR Webgrabber Postplayer1 failed!
DATAERROR Webgrabber Postplayer2 failed!
DATAERROR Check_before 1+2: Postgrabber failed!
DATAERROR Aftercheck : Both players invalid
PREPLAYER 1:

--- PLAYERSTART VALID: false ---
Error_Mes: ERROR: cant grab site 1!
playername: -
id: 0
playerlink: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/294778/1/Tech/
server: EU
league: ERROR
division_name: ERROR
gamedate: ERROR
mapname: ERROR
totalbonuspool: 447
Wins: -9999
Looses: -9999
points: -9999
bonus: -9999
change_points: -9999
adjusted_points: -9999
offset: 0
offsetknown: false
mmr: -9999
PLAYEREND

PREPLAYER 2:

--- PLAYERSTART VALID: false ---
Error_Mes: ERROR: cant grab site 1!
playername: -
id: 0
playerlink: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/965096/1/Kurapica/
server: EU
league: ERROR
division_name: ERROR
gamedate: ERROR
mapname: ERROR
totalbonuspool: 447
Wins: -9999
Looses: -9999
points: -9999
bonus: -9999
change_points: -9999
adjusted_points: -9999
offset: 0
offsetknown: false
mmr: -9999
PLAYEREND

POSTPLAYER 1:

--- PLAYERSTART VALID: false ---
Error_Mes: ERROR: cant grab site 1!
playername: Tech
id: 294778
playerlink: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/294778/1/Tech/
server: EU
league: error
division_name: ERROR
gamedate: ERROR
mapname: ERROR
totalbonuspool: 447
Wins: -9999
Looses: -9999
points: -9999
bonus: -9999
change_points: -9999
adjusted_points: -9999
offset: 0
offsetknown: false
mmr: -9999
PLAYEREND

POSTPLAYER 2:

--- PLAYERSTART VALID: false ---
Error_Mes: ERROR: cant grab site 1!
playername: Kurapica
id: 965096
playerlink: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/965096/1/Kurapica/
server: EU
league: error
division_name: ERROR
gamedate: ERROR
mapname: ERROR
totalbonuspool: 447
Wins: -9999
Looses: -9999
points: -9999
bonus: -9999
change_points: -9999
adjusted_points: -9999
offset: 0
offsetknown: false
mmr: -9999
PLAYEREND

Dataset:
--- GAMESTART ---
TIME: 1337120517864
VALID: false
ERROR:
Player1_won false
--- GAMEEND ---

End posttrigger
--------------------------------------------------
Pretrigger Start
Ramscanner: name1 : FoPÇ‚Chimaira
Ramscanner: id1 : 271741
Ramscanner: name2 : Tech
Ramscanner: id2 : 294778
ERROR Webgrabber: Preplayer 1 failed!
ERROR Webgrabber: Preplayer 2 failed!
Pretrigger END!
--------------------------------------------------
Posttrigger Start
DATAERROR Webgrabber Postplayer1 failed!
DATAERROR Webgrabber Postplayer2 failed!
DATAERROR Check_before 1+2: Postgrabber failed!
DATAERROR Aftercheck : Both players invalid
PREPLAYER 1:

--- PLAYERSTART VALID: false ---
Error_Mes: ERROR: cant grab site 2!
playername: -
id: 0
playerlink: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/294778/1/Tech/
server: EU
league: ERROR
division_name: ERROR
gamedate: ERROR
mapname: ERROR
totalbonuspool: 447
Wins: -9999
Looses: -9999
points: -9999
bonus: -9999
change_points: -9999
adjusted_points: -9999
offset: 0
offsetknown: false
mmr: -9999
PLAYEREND

PREPLAYER 2:

--- PLAYERSTART VALID: false ---
Error_Mes: ERROR: cant grab site 1!
playername: -
id: 0
playerlink: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/271741/1/FoPÇ‚Chimaira/
server: EU
league: ERROR
division_name: ERROR
gamedate: ERROR
mapname: ERROR
totalbonuspool: 447
Wins: -9999
Looses: -9999
points: -9999
bonus: -9999
change_points: -9999
adjusted_points: -9999
offset: 0
offsetknown: false
mmr: -9999
PLAYEREND

POSTPLAYER 1:

--- PLAYERSTART VALID: false ---
Error_Mes: ERROR: cant grab site 3! http://EU.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/294778/1/Tech/ladder/87067#current-rank
playername: Tech
id: 294778
playerlink: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/294778/1/Tech/
server: EU
league: error
division_name: ERROR
gamedate: ERROR
mapname: ERROR
totalbonuspool: 447
Wins: -9999
Looses: -9999
points: -9999
bonus: -9999
change_points: -9999
adjusted_points: -9999
offset: 0
offsetknown: false
mmr: -9999
PLAYEREND

POSTPLAYER 2:

--- PLAYERSTART VALID: false ---
Error_Mes: ERROR: cant grab site 1!
playername: FoPǂChimaira
id: 271741
playerlink: http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/271741/1/FoPǂChimaira/
server: EU
league: error
division_name: ERROR
gamedate: ERROR
mapname: ERROR
totalbonuspool: 447
Wins: -9999
Looses: -9999
points: -9999
bonus: -9999
change_points: -9999
adjusted_points: -9999
offset: 0
offsetknown: false
mmr: -9999
PLAYEREND

Dataset:
--- GAMESTART ---
TIME: 1337121989473
VALID: false
ERROR:
Player1_won true
--- GAMEEND ---

End posttrigger

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