EPTAs long as the money is tied up in hopeless first-generation pro-gamers, foreigners will always appear to be inferior to Koreans
<3 Plexa
Time to euthanize a whole generation of progamers, imo.
Stunted Growth of SC2 - Page 3
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Fishgle
United States2174 Posts
<3 Plexa Time to euthanize a whole generation of progamers, imo. | ||
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Primadog
United States4411 Posts
Slight nit-pick: To date, TSL3 has been the only true open tournament which showcased the best the non-Korean community had to offer (and indeed, Thorzain was born). Not true. Only 16 of the 32 spots are though the TL Open qualifier process; 3 more are seeded from TSL2; 13 of the 32 are invite spots reference. | ||
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ToFu.
331 Posts
as a "foreigner" who am i supposed to support? i don't look like idra or incontrol, but i'm not korean either. and then everybody keeps playing up the race issue as though that's supposed to be ok. turns out texans aren't as racist as tl. | ||
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johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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NonY
8748 Posts
On April 21 2012 04:01 LunaSea wrote: Ouaou, such a hate bandwagon against IPL ! Hot news guys : Team Liquid bought by MLG ! (I can't figure another reason than this ...) I'm sure that the OP is the kind of guys that "plays as the marine" like Sundance or loves the "ZvG" matchup. I didn't play Brood War nor followed any eSports before Starcraft 2 but I would prefer to have a small but dedicated community than a 100 million casuals that care more about nationality than skill level. When you can't figure out a better explanation than a conspiracy theory, you oughtn't post. | ||
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bmml
United Kingdom962 Posts
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HardlyNever
United States1258 Posts
Sure, I have some favorites of my own that I like to see win, but that is secondary to good Starcraft. The finals were actually the highlight of IPL4 for me, which otherwise was a little lackluster. I don't think artificially infusing or inflating foreigner chances just so westerners can feel involved is a fair thing to do. | ||
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Megaliskuu
United States5123 Posts
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
One of the biggest problems with marketing in both scenes is that the relevant media will always hype up the foreigner-underdog/Korean-overlord distinction over talking about individual players. So in the end we are always cheering for abstractions/representations of concepts (the legend, the national hero, the foreigner underdog, the girl standing up to a guy-dominated sport) instead of actual people who embody these concepts. This wouldn't even be so bad except the scene is not deep enough to localize its support along the lines of basketball or soccer. | ||
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Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
While I care about alot of the koreans, DRG, MKP, HerO, Taeja, all of the old BW legends I simply didn't feel like Alive vs Squirtle brought anything for me. well that and I personally dislike TvP. There are infact alot of Koreans who do have personality(the ones aforementioned) the only problem is, there are way more koreans who are all (much) better then a large part of the foreigners, yet they have as you say no ''face''. They can be flown out and will destroy any foreigner hope or atleast elminate alot of them very swiftly. There isn't only an oversaturation of Tournaments, there is also an oversaturation of (very) good korean players who have no face, this is not them being at fault though and can be very hard to solve. | ||
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Jakkerr
Netherlands2549 Posts
There's maybe 3 Korean players that I like watching cause they somewhat have a personality. I didn't even watch the IPL4 finals tbh with you cuz I really didn't care about the winner. They won their matches so yeh... they deserved to be in the finals but every SC2 tourney is so random compared to real sports. In tennis there's ~4 players that always win the major tournaments, there's always some new guys that perform well but they don't reach the finals. Same goes for pretty much any sport. But in SC2 players that don't really have any results can actually just win the biggest tournament until now cause they are having a good weekend. This is really bad from a spectator perspective since it's hard to be a fan of a player if they perform completely different on any tournament they play. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
Though I have to admit that the foreigner scene is partly at fault. A good analogy would be: Korean progamer = Meryl Streep Foreign progamer = Kim Kardashian The foreign scene is too much into drama instead of actual playing ability. | ||
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bmml
United Kingdom962 Posts
On April 21 2012 05:07 HardlyNever wrote: I honestly don't care much about the actual players playing. Sure, I have some favorites of my own that I like to see win, but that is secondary to good Starcraft. The finals were actually the highlight of IPL4 for me, which otherwise was a little lackluster. I don't think artificially infusing or inflating foreigner chances just so westerners can feel involved is a fair thing to do. Unsure whether you actually read the OP at all, he talked about a fairer qualification process for tournaments. Not spoonfeeding places to foreigners. | ||
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CosmicSpiral
United States15275 Posts
On April 21 2012 05:20 andrewlt wrote: Don't you think the problem is partly the game and not just the community? SC2 was designed to be more volatile than BW. Luck plays more of a part and allows lesser skilled Koreans to knock off better skilled Koreans on a more routine basis than they could in BW. The first generation foreigners are hopelessly outskilled but the faceless Koreans are close enough in skill that they could knock off the better ones. We won't have this problem if it's the same, few top Koreans dominating instead of some random faceless one. Though I have to admit that the foreigner scene is partly at fault. A good analogy would be: Korean progamer = Meryl Streep Foreign progamer = Kim Kardashian The foreign scene is too much into drama instead of actual playing ability. The best Koreans are the faceless Koreans. On April 21 2012 05:20 Jakkerr wrote: Agreed, when 2 Koreans play I couldn't care less who actually wins. There's maybe 3 Korean players that I like watching cause they somewhat have a personality. I didn't even watch the IPL4 finals tbh with you cuz I really didn't care about the winner. They won their matches so yeh... they deserved to be in the finals but every SC2 tourney is so random compared to real sports. In tennis there's ~4 players that always win the major tournaments, there's always some new guys that perform well but they don't reach the finals. Same goes for pretty much any sport. But in SC2 players that don't really have any results can actually just win the biggest tournament until now cause they are having a good weekend. This is really bad from a spectator perspective since it's hard to be a fan of a player if they perform completely different on any tournament they play. This is also why tennis is boring as a spectator sport and does not inspire the same fervor as certain team sports. | ||
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Chef
10810 Posts
No hand outs is great, fine, you'll ensure your league has more legitimacy that way. Hand picking players who have proven themselves and pitting them against each other... That's when you start to see the game mature. | ||
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Novalisk
Israel1818 Posts
On April 21 2012 05:20 andrewlt wrote: Don't you think the problem is partly the game and not just the community? SC2 was designed to be more volatile than BW. Luck plays more of a part and allows lesser skilled Koreans to knock off better skilled Koreans on a more routine basis than they could in BW. The first generation foreigners are hopelessly outskilled but the faceless Koreans are close enough in skill that they could knock off the better ones. We won't have this problem if it's the same, few top Koreans dominating instead of some random faceless one. Volatility at the top is a problem, but blaming the game is easy as it's something we cannot change as a community. Instead, we must look at what we can do in order to make the top more stable. | ||
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KillerDucky
United States498 Posts
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Kraznaya
United States3711 Posts
"marketing is why people are still rooting for incontrol and tyler and idra when they could be rooting for illusion, and marketing for the short term will kill sc2 foreign scene in the long term" | ||
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NotJumperer
United States1371 Posts
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Meatloaf
Spain664 Posts
Im an example of one that started seeing tournaments in the beta , i almost never lose a big tournament (especially semifinals and finals) if i can work around to see it but even knowing that IPL4 was running i didnt really watch this one , all the players with history falled pretty early (foreigners and known koreans) and as much as i like squirtles play... I dont know feels like watching 2nd division football for me instead of 1st div , i mean i like football but ill not go as far as not knowing the players , their history , no drama... no underdog bc you really dont know anything about the players. the foreign scene shouldnt close doors to the koreans , but this kind of takeover should not be encouraged as it was again ever imho. | ||
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