EPTSurprisingly Normal Mini Mafia IX - Page 17
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
On March 25 2012 23:53 Mementoss wrote: I think you are vigilante, but Im just saying because you claimed it doesn't mean its true. Looking at the way it happened it seems though you are vigilante. Mafia could claim vig, but someone for sure would counter claim, and it wouldn't really make sense to bring attention to themselves with the fake claim. You posted you were vig without fear immediately even though sc2system flipped town. I am 95% sure you are vig, but its not 100% till you flip. Nothing is ever 100% certain, of course. However if you look at it logically it'd be an extremely bad play for Mafia as the real vigilante can just speak up and force a 1 for 1 trade. Unless that happens, you're pretty much going to have to trust me as it's the closest thing you're going to have to a confirmed town. | ||
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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ZBot
194 Posts
Remember, everyone must vote, and you need a majority to lynch (5 people in this case) Current votes: Not voting: Artanis[Xp], Nova_Terra, michaelthe, Ninja4ever., Gossemerr, Mementoss, Seviro, virtu, BlueyD The Day deadline is at 2012-03-27 12:00:00. (That's approximately 1 day, 11:53:18 from now.) | ||
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Seviro
Canada98 Posts
On March 25 2012 22:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote: .He also used a chainsaw argument against me after I accused him, voting me for little reason seemingly only because I voted on him and some minor suspicions. Regardless of alignment, that's bad. I don't think it was a "chainsaw argument" as you say because I did defend myself. I just thought "ok, he took all my post out of context so let's do the same thing with him". I know that was a bad play, but your accusations were meaningless so I just kind of did the same. Now i'm gonna go read some filter and I'll post some of my thought after, especially Mementoss, a lot of people seem to think that he his almost confirmed town and given last game scenario, I don't like that. So brb in some hours. | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
Nova_Terra: His meta is completely different. He explained that he changing the way he plays to improve his game. As vanilla town, he had long thought out posts, and pressure posts. In this game I read through his first 2 pages of filter, it 50% spam. The other 50% is dedicated to either responding to people, or asking peoples opinions on things usually leading the town in circles. Honestly, I can't even find anything to quote because its all useless. He seems to be posting in fear and holding back. He posts a case about BlueyD, but it was very forced and weak. Things were taken out of context to make them look scummy, and things that weren't scummy were meant to look scummy. Such as the leadership thing. Here is another thing that makes him seem suspicious. He totally ignored talk about the vig shot, until after it was done. He didn't want to push it cause he knew it would make him suspicious, but he didn't want to stop it because he knew sc2system was town. Maybe I should be suspicious for bringing it up, but as a mafia wouldn't that be too risky to do? I think the people we should look at are the people who ignored the topic who were active, these people being: Nova, Seviro, and BlueyD (but he was defending himself) On March 25 2012 17:10 Nova_Terra wrote: Yeah, If you are the vig artanis you should have waited. We could have had a free mafia death at some point. At least, sc2system was relatively worthless, so it should be a bit easier to go scumhunting. BlueyD, i kind of think the point of the hit on froggynoddy is in essence exactly what you said. he was off the radar, and its hard to read anything from the hit. I will go into his filter today, but i really dont expect to find much, unless its based on WIFOM. Says you shouldn't have shot, yet didn't say anything during the night when it was actually important. Also in many instances in this game he is constantly apologetic. Doesn't want to get on anyones bad side, and is just slipping by. + Show Spoiler + On March 24 2012 06:47 Nova_Terra wrote: I am so sorry, i got caught up in a game of quake. I really feel bad. Mementoss, the main thing thats changed is that i am trying hard to not let behaviors bother me and change the way i play. I took a lot of flak last time around, and while i am still trying to be active and helpful i dont want to go all out aggression because i will get too caught up like last time. even to the point of deluding myself that i was totally right. I defended artanis because i think that it was an innocent mistake, albeit a bad one. For my reasons previously stated, i am voting for Rise of Fenix. his play is not helping us at all, and i do not find artanis or anyone else (until i analyze the filters hard tomorrow morning) more suspicious. ##Vote: Rise of Fenix On March 24 2012 06:52 Nova_Terra wrote: Wow, i really messed up the time. Once again, sorry all, I promise that i will stick to it for sure next time. I will be on for another hour or so. On March 25 2012 07:23 Nova_Terra wrote: Oh, sorry. I didnt read over the thread while i wrote it and was going by filters. I did understand that he had a reason for it. I just didnt think that the reason made much sense when he had said that he would vote for RoF if he didnt contribute. As Artanis just said, I do find the manner in which he tried to take leadership to be scummy. He has been guiding the town towards a certain lynch from this position, without being forced to post much analysis, which i think is a result of having made a couple posts that seemed to be from an authoritative position. Another thing that i did not like from this is that as he is seemingly capable, he isnt posting as much content as i think he could be, like what i should have noticed about you last game mementoss. Prelim votes is OK with me, but i think that as much of the town is relatively inactive getting a clear consensus right away will be a bit challenging. I also dont want people to leave a prelim vote and forget about it until relatively late in the day because of this inactivity. Please stay active! We cant just let scum lurk this out. On March 25 2012 05:50 Nova_Terra wrote: sorry, got ninja'ed, i meant that to be for BlueyD. Overall his play is just spammy, hes not taking the town forward, his meta is completely off his vanilla. He has had one unique opinion in 3 pages of filter. He seems to be just the one asking the questions, and apologizing. Rather than analysing play and applying pressure. He is taking the town in circles. He is probably in the scum QT posting huge plans, while in here just spamming up the thread. The only reason I would think he was town, is because he defended Artanis's scum slip, and now it is shaping up for Artanis to be town. Other than that, I would be very sure this guy is scum. Maybe he just defended Artanis, to stay away from the same opinion of his scumbuddy seviro, who quickly after Artanis's case on him OMGUS'd and voted Artanis. But that is just WIFOM. ##Vote: Nova_Terra | ||
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Mementoss
Canada2595 Posts
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Seviro
Canada98 Posts
Mementoss: He was the first one to make a real case against Rise Of Fenix which really started the train rolling in my opinion. While Rise was doing a great job of sinking himself into bad and bad post, peolple started to look more into it after this case. He also was the first one to point out sc2system lurkerness.These two people had already been mentionned beforehand, respectively by Gossemer and Ninja4ever. My point is, not that it mean anything since it was the same for a lot of people, his two main suspect flipped town which is worth pointing out I think. Now, this is not scummy in itself but I also saw a little inconsistency in his posting. In his first post he states: + Show Spoiler + On March 22 2012 20:41 Mementoss wrote: Therefore, I say we lynch a lurker/useless poster day 1, unless we have a significant scum slip. Why is this beneifical to us the town, even though there is a good chance it will be a townie? 1) Helps narrow down the field for scum hunting later 2) Keeps the active ratio higher for discussion 3) Attempts to keep replacements out of the game, which are always difficult to read and deal with as one persons scum meta =/= the other persons. . Then, later he is the one who notice the slip of artanis + Show Spoiler + On March 24 2012 01:43 Mementoss wrote: Note the bolded/underlined, its both because its a very big mistake. A very big scum slip. Why is it such a huge deal? Because we have no clue if Nova_Terra is town. AT ALL. Here are the possibilities: 1) He is scum, he knows peoples roles, therefore he knows Nova_Terra is town. Slipped it by mistake. 2) He is scum, Nova_Terra is scum, he is quick to give the idea to the rest that Nova is confirmed town, when there is no proof behind it. Just saying it because Nova is active. 3) He is town, bad town play, making assumptions that lead to town not exploring all the possibilities, getting tunnelled away from someone (See me as mafia SNMM VIII) Dat scum slip If we follow his reasoning, At this point Artanis had 66% chance of being a scum but even then he didn't put a vote even after: On March 24 2012 05:24 Mementoss wrote: @Artanis, I don't believe your defense, but its not enough to warrant a day 1 lynch. Now that I have given Seviro a chance to defend, your case against him seemed weak to me. It was basically him discussing things that were going on in the thread, while they were important, don't see how this is scummy. He point out the slip, don't believe the defense, have stated in his first post that he would vote a lurker/useless poster unless a scum slip like this happened, be even then he doesn't put his vote on him once. Now, since Artanis is a confirmed townie now (unless a counter claim but at this point I doubt it), it is not inherently scummy but these littles inconsistencies are worth mentionning if we want to scum hunt effectively. My main suspect now is Micaelthe: Here is Froggy post about his early game so I won't have to repeat it. + Show Spoiler + On March 23 2012 10:07 froggynoddy wrote: Wow. Michaelthe, I'm not sure if you are bad town or bad scum. Regardless, you seem pretty bad. You're first post states (after day 1) that you are for lurker lynch: You're second post has no content: Your third point is some very weak finger pointing: There is pretty much nothing to go by. Your content is zilch, you are putting suspicion on people who have more content than you; I have argued that forcing lurkers to post is beneficial to town, more convincingly than you have (as has seviro and to a certain extent Nova_Terra), yet you put a really weak case forward against three posters. I'm not voting for you YET but you seriously need to shape up. Accusing players who have posted content in day 1 seems scummy to me as there is so little to go by. Make a better case dude. (for all three of us) I want to add on his ultimatum thingie. + Show Spoiler + On March 23 2012 07:19 michaelthe wrote: Actually, completely by accident. He should be below sc2system and ninja, but above froggy. I was tracking posts by quality and page by assigning a value to each post from 0 (greeting, basic chatter), 1 (very basic, but maybe an opinion), 2 (basic thoughts), or 3 (solid attempt at analysis for day1). Best I could do for day1... I suspect filters and exact content will matter more on day 2 or 3+ The scores are as follows: sc2system: 0,0 (a few posts on day1 I lumpped I think) Ninja: 0,0 Froggy: 0,1,1 And, as you said and I missed: Fenix: 1,1 (Argentina) So I will add him to the list, I guess in fairness I will give him 8 hours from this post, so an extra 40 minutes or whatever  Revised list: 1. Sc2system 2. Ninja 3. Rise of Fenix 4. Froggy 2 thing I want to point out with this. First thing, 3 out of 4 on this list are now dead dead townies. Second, he post an Ultimatum than never happen: ULTIMATUM: Post something of value within 8 hours or you are getting my vote! Which he emphasize as being an ultimatum. On March 23 2012 06:25 michaelthe wrote: not much of an ultimatum if I change it 5 minutes later! You're Euro.. what time is it there? Then his first actual vote happen 23 hour after his ultimatum whereas he said an ultimatum of 8 hour more so that he vote for someone that is not on his list. Which lead me to talk about the "Feudian slip" as he calls it. He seems to insist a lot on this than needed, now that we already had ROS and sc2system under the radar he bring back a point that had been discuss hours before as if since ROS and sc2system where dead men walking at this stage if he could change day 1 lynch then day 2 and 3 would have been a big mess for the town. I'll point out also that he was not the first to vote for Artanis since my vote was still on him and most of his opinion were mostly reformulating. Then, at the end of the day he just follow the bandwagon as he see that Artanis won't get lynched. Sorry for the lenght of the post, longer than expected. | ||
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Seviro
Canada98 Posts
On March 26 2012 02:27 Mementoss wrote: Here is another thing that makes him seem suspicious. He totally ignored talk about the vig shot, until after it was done. He didn't want to push it cause he knew it would make him suspicious, but he didn't want to stop it because he knew sc2system was town. Maybe I should be suspicious for bringing it up, but as a mafia wouldn't that be too risky to do? I think the people we should look at are the people who ignored the topic who were active, these people being: Nova, Seviro, and BlueyD (but he was defending himself) I had no position on this, and since it seems that I don'T have opinion or I just use others argument I might as well just not post. On the Nova topic, I won't say much since I'll wait for him to defend himself but I just want to point out that his last game's meta caused his downfall pretty badly so he might just be trying something else. But your apologizing point is a good one, it seems that he want to please to everyone and be kind of passive. | ||
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michaelthe
United States359 Posts
This is going to be long post, we actually have a good bit to go over! Night 1 Results: I was initially surprised to see a vig shot on a townie, but it quickly became apparent that this was a great call by Artanis. I would have been going at his throat today due to his slip. Artanis basically proved it was a typo, as he claimed. Artanis is now pretty confirmed town. He also picked his target well. Sc2 was at best an anti-town townie. Initial Day 2 Thoughts At the end of day1, I reread the argument between Seviro and Artanis. While I was pretty sure Artanis was scum, I thought Seviro's reponse was absurd. I came to the conclusion that one of these two were most likely scum... Since Artanis is now mostly-confirmed, the attack on Seviro gained another look. I came today and read and took notes the last 3 pages or so. While reading Night1, I noticed that Goss was the only one to suggest before AND after that sc2 vig hit wasn't good. This was in my notes, but I actually didnt too think much of it until Artanis posted something. Artanis posted a list of 3 ppl. I am going to attack the other two on that list. I know this looks scummy (zomg, Im on a list of 3, look at them 2, not me!), but I think people will see me being reasonable rather than overly-defense on the attack on Seviro/Goss. I already posted that these two aroused my suspicion. My reasons above and below should be clear. Defense from Artanis Artanis makes two points: 1) I defended Fenix as probable town: There were two clear options: He was terrible town, or he was terrible scum. What made me think he was just terrible town is because he was confused on multiple issues regarding the rules and terms in Mafia. He wasn't playing scummy, he was playing confused. I made the case that sc2 was a better lynch, but it was clear we had two useless players, either of them wasn't bad. I think most people weren't surprised when Fenix flipped town, but everyone was fine with that. 2) You call it a change in play style when I went from analytical to jumping on you hard for your slip. I much prefer an analytical style- rather, thats how I think. I would suggest jumping on you was objective. Everything I know and have read about mafia points out that your slip was the largest scum slip in the book. I could imagine mafia vets coming and analyzing the game and saying “WTF, NO ONE CAUGHT ARTANIS' SLIP?!?!” You yourself admitted it was a giant slip. Jumping on it was objectively a good thing. If you want more, let me know. On Seviro: (This is based heavily on his filter, pull it up if you want to see specific posts, this is already long enough without them all) First substantial post after initial wave of basic crap: On March 23 2012 08:10 Seviro wrote: EBWOP, If we agree that everyone should have a vote posted at a set time before the deadline (since no one disagreed right now let's say 8 to 6 hour) we can then make a better choice for the lynch of this day and if someone fail to do so then he is most likely to be proposed as a lunch candidate. He is suggesting a policy lynch based on not voting within an 8 hour deadline. The reason policy lynches are bad is because it removes analysis and focuses only on the policy. This one specifically means someone would be a lynch target simply for voting 4 hours from the deadline rather than 8. If you get scum to meet the deadline, the scum get a free town kill. Seviro's reponse to Artanis Attack. I was fairly certain Artanis was scum, after what I saw as a strong slip. But I think the vig claim was great (more on that later). I reread the Artanis / Servio post and thought Artanis' attack was simple (based on day1 stuffs..) but Serviro WAY overreacted with his defense. He went on to vote for Artanis in his defense, which is a TERRBIE move! FOUR minutes later he states a willingness to go after Fenix... After the Fenix train picks up some steam, he totally forgets about Artanis. Then he changes OFF Artanis and... onto Virtu, for not being active enough. His acusations are extremely fickle. He ends the day by jumping on the same train as everyone, Fenix. After Day1, he posts that he thinks sc2system is town. He has defended bad play of Fenix and SC2 as town. ONLY MAFIA KNOW WHO TOWNIES ARE! On March 25 2012 06:43 Seviro wrote: This is what I meant by pressure but not necessarly lynch, I put my vote on him and then he came and posted his thought so I switched back. This is what I call pressure play. He discusses the virtu vote as “pressure”. A vote with nothing behind it, with no case, nothing. He doesn't at all revisit his Artanis vote here. His most recent posts finally address the Artanis vote, his reasoning is ABSURD: On March 26 2012 01:47 Seviro wrote: I don't think it was a "chainsaw argument" as you say because I did defend myself. I just thought "ok, he took all my post out of context so let's do the same thing with him". I know that was a bad play, but your accusations were meaningless so I just kind of did the same. Now i'm gonna go read some filter and I'll post some of my thought after, especially Mementoss, a lot of people seem to think that he his almost confirmed town and given last game scenario, I don't like that. So brb in some hours. He says it wasn't a chainsaw defense, but then pretty much describes a chainsaw defense. We have all been discussing the initial Seviro/Artanis issue, I think Seviro would rather see it buried. On Gossemerr: What really caught me off was him talking about the vig shot. Before and after the vig shot he thinks its a terrible idea. On March 25 2012 12:07 Gossemerr wrote: Wow... fail vig shot.. I was too damn late. Now I slightly suspicious of Mem and Virtu. Entirely WIFOM, but makes me wonder. On March 25 2012 11:56 Gossemerr wrote: Are you SERIOUSLY suggesting that our vig should shoot someone who is possibly not a mafia? You would ACTUALLY want to waste a mafia kill on a bad town player? I think sc2system is playing either bad scum or town right now, as my older posts suggest, but why does he HAVE to die right now? Maybe Day 2 he will actually contribute. First, here is why its a good vig shot: 1) Artanis had a LOT of heat on him (at least in mind) due to a big mistake of calling someone a townie (which only Mafia could know). Artanis is now the most confirmed town we have. 2) sc2system was either a anti-town townie (useless posts, wanting to confuse ppl, etc.) or scum. A vig shot on him isn't bad in either case. A townie posting anti-town crap is useless. Even more useless if they get modkilled later for inactivity! Further more, it is particularly absurd that Goss would dislike this vig shot because Goss' ONLY attack has been agasint sc2system! Why would be pro-lynch on him and not pro-vig hit!? I think Goss thinks it's pro-town to frown upon a vig shot hitting a green, and therefore did. Everyone else was pretty much in consensus that it was a good vig shot. Conclusion I think this is terribly scummy from both Seviro and Goss. Seviro wanted his bad play buried, he ignored it mostly, and then defended it poorly. Goss made a big mistake of being the only person to go against the vig hit, despite making a case agasint the target! He went against the vig hit because he thinks it's pro-town to frown upon the vig accidently killing a green. Right now I would vote for either of these, I think they both made major mistakes. If I could vote twice, I would. I'm starting with Seviro because I think it's too his advantage to have more time past from his mistakes so he can bury them. Also, he has already tried, and failed, to cover up his bad play, Goss hasn't had a full chance to defend himself. ##Vote: Seviro | ||
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michaelthe
United States359 Posts
It took my daugthers entire nap to type this up, and I missed the last few posts. I will be able to read a bit, but not respond much (typing while holding a 14mo old doesnt end well) until tonight. | ||
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michaelthe
United States359 Posts
one last note before I'm out for a bit. If anyone wants me to respond to Seviro, I will- but it seems to me like he is forcing really weak cases to try and bury his terrible play and Artanis issue. Both his cases are rather poor and forced. | ||
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Seviro
Canada98 Posts
On March 26 2012 03:10 michaelthe wrote: Initial Day 2 Thoughts At the end of day1, I reread the argument between Seviro and Artanis. While I was pretty sure Artanis was scum, I thought Seviro's reponse was absurd. I came to the conclusion that one of these two were most likely scum... Since Artanis is now mostly-confirmed, the attack on Seviro gained another look. On Seviro: (This is based heavily on his filter, pull it up if you want to see specific posts, this is already long enough without them all) First substantial post after initial wave of basic crap: He is suggesting a policy lynch based on not voting within an 8 hour deadline. The reason policy lynches are bad is because it removes analysis and focuses only on the policy. This one specifically means someone would be a lynch target simply for voting 4 hours from the deadline rather than 8. If you get scum to meet the deadline, the scum get a free town kill. Seviro's reponse to Artanis Attack. I was fairly certain Artanis was scum, after what I saw as a strong slip. But I think the vig claim was great (more on that later). I reread the Artanis / Servio post and thought Artanis' attack was simple (based on day1 stuffs..) but Serviro WAY overreacted with his defense. He went on to vote for Artanis in his defense, which is a TERRBIE move! FOUR minutes later he states a willingness to go after Fenix... After the Fenix train picks up some steam, he totally forgets about Artanis. Then he changes OFF Artanis and... onto Virtu, for not being active enough. His acusations are extremely fickle. He ends the day by jumping on the same train as everyone, Fenix. After Day1, he posts that he thinks sc2system is town. He has defended bad play of Fenix and SC2 as town. ONLY MAFIA KNOW WHO TOWNIES ARE! He discusses the virtu vote as “pressure”. A vote with nothing behind it, with no case, nothing. He doesn't at all revisit his Artanis vote here. His most recent posts finally address the Artanis vote, his reasoning is ABSURD: He says it wasn't a chainsaw defense, but then pretty much describes a chainsaw defense. We have all been discussing the initial Seviro/Artanis issue, I think Seviro would rather see it buried. + Show Spoiler + Initial Day 2 Thoughts At the end of day1, I reread the argument between Seviro and Artanis. While I was pretty sure Artanis was scum, I thought Seviro's reponse was absurd. I came to the conclusion that one of these two were most likely scum... Since Artanis is now mostly-confirmed, the attack on Seviro gained another look. That is purely WIFOM. He is suggesting a policy lynch based on not voting within an 8 hour deadline. The reason policy lynches are bad is because it removes analysis and focuses only on the policy. This one specifically means someone would be a lynch target simply for voting 4 hours from the deadline rather than 8. If you get scum to meet the deadline, the scum get a free town kill. It doesn't mean it at all, let's say a 8 or even a 6 hour dealine, you had 40-42 to come up with a vote at this point in the day you should have your opinion anyway. It is in no way final but this way we can have an organized town and we have actually enough time to discuss each vote. FOUR minutes later he states a willingness to go after Fenix... After the Fenix train picks up some steam, he totally forgets about Artanis. What are you talking about?. Literally all the EFFING day I've been DEFENDING Fenix in hope that he would come up with something useful, which didn'T happen. Then he changes OFF Artanis and... onto Virtu, for not being active enough. His acusations are extremely fickle. He ends the day by jumping on the same train as everyone, Fenix. Virtu had promised us a post which was not there at the time, after he did post I switch my vote onto Fenix since his post were making less and less sense. After Day1, he posts that he thinks sc2system is town. He has defended bad play of Fenix and SC2 as town. ONLY MAFIA KNOW WHO TOWNIES ARE! On March 24 2012 23:54 michaelthe wrote: It was more or less expected that we'd get a bad townie on day 1. I thought it was pretty clear he was bad town rather than mafia, but just a really bad town who couldn't even vote in the right format last minute that would have saved him. You must be scum right? Just because I think something and it come down that I was right it doesn't mean anything. He says it wasn't a chainsaw defense, but then pretty much describes a chainsaw defense. We have all been discussing the initial Seviro/Artanis issue, I think Seviro would rather see it buried. On March 25 2012 22:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote: (if you don't know, a chainsaw argument is accusing the accuser rather than defending yourself).. I did not accuse him rather than defending myself, I did defend myself then I accused him, this is werew the difference lies. If you have other question about this Artanis/Seviro thing feel free to ask. | ||
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Seviro
Canada98 Posts
On day 1, there was an occasion to accuse Artanis so he jumped on it and when he saw that he was not going to be lynched he switched to ROS as he was the lynch candidate but he never ceased to mention sc2system, another lynch candidate. Now on day 2, since Artanis is most probably the Vig and that ROS and sc2system are gone, he is targetting me who have been under the spotlight for quite a while. | ||
Ninja4ever.
France231 Posts
The thing being, I have a two pages short story to write for tommorow, so I won't be able to correctly expand on why as I lack in time. here are some explanations though : Mementoss case on nova was great. At this point it doesn't matter even matter wether or not Mementoss is scummy, I find his explanation to be too good. Seviro lack of content in his posts and overall undeciveness make him look like someone that want to add chaos to the thread, very scummy like. Michaelthe, mostly suspected because he's " repeating too much stuff " which I find to be the least important tell when there's so few information to work with, in the beginning stage. He just seem like someone who doesn't have so much time and wanted to show he's active cause of the lurker pressure. Also suspected because he was quick to jump on artanis bandwagon, which was to me one of the two most logical thing to do at the time (the other one being voting against RoF) Gossemerr : mostly suspected because he wanted to lynch sc2system but not vigkill him. Don't think it's telling, as artanis said the fact that sc2system turned out green makes it kinda irrevelant, and he might have simply thought that sc2system wasn't suspect enough to waste one vighit. I won't be much more active tommorow sadly, but will be a lot more from monday night ! For now : ##Vote: Nova_Terra But it can greatly change depending on nova's and seviro's defense. | ||
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Ninja4ever.
France231 Posts
Clearly i like forgetting to bold my votes | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
On March 26 2012 02:27 Mementoss wrote: Alright, this activity is bad, its day 2 its crucial we get a mafia kill here. Lets up the activity and find one of these scum. With that being said Im going to present a case right now. Lets look at the filter shall we? Nova_Terra: His meta is completely different. He explained that he changing the way he plays to improve his game. As vanilla town, he had long thought out posts, and pressure posts. In this game I read through his first 2 pages of filter, it 50% spam. The other 50% is dedicated to either responding to people, or asking peoples opinions on things usually leading the town in circles. Honestly, I can't even find anything to quote because its all useless. He seems to be posting in fear and holding back. He posts a case about BlueyD, but it was very forced and weak. Things were taken out of context to make them look scummy, and things that weren't scummy were meant to look scummy. Such as the leadership thing. Here is another thing that makes him seem suspicious. He totally ignored talk about the vig shot, until after it was done. He didn't want to push it cause he knew it would make him suspicious, but he didn't want to stop it because he knew sc2system was town. Maybe I should be suspicious for bringing it up, but as a mafia wouldn't that be too risky to do? I think the people we should look at are the people who ignored the topic who were active, these people being: Nova, Seviro, and BlueyD (but he was defending himself) Says you shouldn't have shot, yet didn't say anything during the night when it was actually important. Also in many instances in this game he is constantly apologetic. Doesn't want to get on anyones bad side, and is just slipping by. + Show Spoiler + On March 24 2012 06:47 Nova_Terra wrote: I am so sorry, i got caught up in a game of quake. I really feel bad. Mementoss, the main thing thats changed is that i am trying hard to not let behaviors bother me and change the way i play. I took a lot of flak last time around, and while i am still trying to be active and helpful i dont want to go all out aggression because i will get too caught up like last time. even to the point of deluding myself that i was totally right. I defended artanis because i think that it was an innocent mistake, albeit a bad one. For my reasons previously stated, i am voting for Rise of Fenix. his play is not helping us at all, and i do not find artanis or anyone else (until i analyze the filters hard tomorrow morning) more suspicious. ##Vote: Rise of Fenix On March 24 2012 06:52 Nova_Terra wrote: Wow, i really messed up the time. Once again, sorry all, I promise that i will stick to it for sure next time. I will be on for another hour or so. On March 25 2012 07:23 Nova_Terra wrote: Oh, sorry. I didnt read over the thread while i wrote it and was going by filters. I did understand that he had a reason for it. I just didnt think that the reason made much sense when he had said that he would vote for RoF if he didnt contribute. As Artanis just said, I do find the manner in which he tried to take leadership to be scummy. He has been guiding the town towards a certain lynch from this position, without being forced to post much analysis, which i think is a result of having made a couple posts that seemed to be from an authoritative position. Another thing that i did not like from this is that as he is seemingly capable, he isnt posting as much content as i think he could be, like what i should have noticed about you last game mementoss. Prelim votes is OK with me, but i think that as much of the town is relatively inactive getting a clear consensus right away will be a bit challenging. I also dont want people to leave a prelim vote and forget about it until relatively late in the day because of this inactivity. Please stay active! We cant just let scum lurk this out. On March 25 2012 05:50 Nova_Terra wrote: sorry, got ninja'ed, i meant that to be for BlueyD. Overall his play is just spammy, hes not taking the town forward, his meta is completely off his vanilla. He has had one unique opinion in 3 pages of filter. He seems to be just the one asking the questions, and apologizing. Rather than analysing play and applying pressure. He is taking the town in circles. He is probably in the scum QT posting huge plans, while in here just spamming up the thread. The only reason I would think he was town, is because he defended Artanis's scum slip, and now it is shaping up for Artanis to be town. Other than that, I would be very sure this guy is scum. Maybe he just defended Artanis, to stay away from the same opinion of his scumbuddy seviro, who quickly after Artanis's case on him OMGUS'd and voted Artanis. But that is just WIFOM. ##Vote: Nova_Terra Ok. I just went over last game briefly. Starting off with, i made an apparently "bad move" by FoS'ing somebody early. Then, i got mad and frustrated, and ended up spamming defense posts and some OMGUS. At least in the pages i read, i was responding to people calling me out and playing aggressively because i was lashing out at people. After last game, i learned that i wanted to play in a more "emotionless" manner where it wouldnt screw me up and cause me to post cases and analysis that goes totally incorrect because my mind wanted to lynch them for even daring to accuse something i did to be bad or wrong. I wanted to play more like Mementoss (which is a bad example as he was scum, but still accurate) but he really did seem like a helpful townie, and he just seemed like his behavior never changed when different things happened. His posts didnt have OMGUS, or terrible cases. I wanted to do just that. And that i feel accounts for my meta. My pressure posts made me feel like i didnt actually do anything. We ended up letting a mafia through and a townie die. Yet, I dont even get how it could have helped. We pressured a townie who posted and then left, and he didnt respond and so he died. Then i received flak for switching my vote off him when i thought he was innocent later. All that this reinforced to me was that i shouldnt play the way my brain thinks. because its suspicious, etc. Enter this game. It starts in a week where i am busy to begin with with many tests, and my brain was scrambled to begin with. And i knew that i wanted to change up my play and play without this emotion crap. Because it was making me scummy. I've been trying to let people know that i agree with them in some issues here, and others there, to make myself as transparent as possible. And then every now and again, when some posts went through me, I went a little into rage mode. Immediately to shut it down, i kinda held back on analysis so i wouldnt let it influence my play, which i realize now makes no sense because by shutting down the analysis it was influencing my play.I was kinda scared about how i would come across because of how i was feeling. Strangely enough, this weekend i have had a relatively busy social schedule. Thats kind of new for me, and i realize this. Then i started missing deadlines (that i myself had made) and just not posting on time, making stupid lapses in judgement (like not reading the thread alongside filters and taking BlueyD's post out of context) as a result of me being out and about and/or playing games with friends. And i feel so bad about it, because i really didnt want to come off as suspicious but because of these little things i found that i was coming across in that manner, at least to myself, and thats why i've been apologising. Its so hard to be transparent when i was screwing up these little things, and i feel bad for making it so hard on the other townies to read me. However, i was spending some time looking over filters. I still maintain that i find the leadership thing to be scummy. I cant remember if i explained why i did in a previous post, but please ask if you want me to again. Dont want to waste space if i dont have to. Looking over the case, it definitely felt to me like it was certainly warranted and some things were suspicious, but it also felt like my case on seviro last game. I dont get why my analysis is apparently so bad, but all i know is that im trying to put tons of effort on these cases and nobodys really agreeing with it and it doesnt do anything.it feels terrible to be putting all the time and feeling into it and having it do nothing. Last night i came in after an exciting day out in the city, and finished my case, and then decided to relax for a little while and watch some MLG. yeah, i did see something about vigilante shot on sc2system, but at the time wasnt concerned about it and actually thought that it made sense as we wouldnt waste the day arguing about him (which i didnt post because people were taking flak for making posts to just agree with people), and only when i was literally falling asleep did i realize that the vigilante shot is pretty much a free kill against mafia if its used right, and didnt feel like getting up to go post to state my opinion. Not because i knew system was town or anything like that, I was just too damn tired around 1 in the morning. Which was another thing that i apologized for as i should have gotten up to do that. So, to end this defense, I want to add my reads on everybody so far. Mementoss: Leaning far town, seems very inno which scares me as thats how i was thinking last game. Seviro: leaning scum, actually. I hope to provide analysis on him tonight or tomorrow during the day. artanis: most likely to be town, at least in my eyes Virtu: Relatively null. I havent really gotten any vibes from him at all. Posts some analysis (of last games play etc) but doesnt really seem to do much with it at least in my eyes. Nova_Terra (yes i am putting myself on my own list): null. hard to read because of not posting thoughts when they seem to arise. Michaelthe: null leaning scummy. makes some posts that i find were pretty good early game, but then he just randomly drops off and doesnt post much. One thing in his favor in my eyes is how he has been playing aggressively. Gossemerr: Null leaning town. I like the aggressiveness however. Ninja4ever.:Null. not a very active player, but he does come and post his thoughts a couple times a day. I dont like his activity however. BlueyD: Null leaning scummy. I still think my points on the position he has been taking in the game are valid, and i find that he got defensive pretty dang fast. | ||
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
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Artanis[Xp]
Netherlands12968 Posts
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Nova_Terra
Switzerland1190 Posts
Yeah, it is an apologetic post about playing different than normal, as that is what seems to be accounting for the case against me. Main points against me seem to be meta difference, posting in fear, and ignoring vigi shot talk until after it was over, and i kinda think i addressed those. | ||
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