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C9++ Mini Mafia - Page 12
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
We need more people giving input, including you. | ||
VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
Just /confirming now. I've read through the thread and will be putting together some thoughts shortly. | ||
xsksc
United Kingdom1044 Posts
On March 19 2012 00:26 slOosh wrote: Yea I don't like this post - you are sidestepping and not addressing my suspicions. 1) The meat of my suspicions was not at all on your calling out, but your behavior after that. 2) I think it's pre-emptive because you are addressing a past stance in lieu of your present stance. 3) You take half a paragraph to assert that we have a lot of time and implicitly encourage thread stagnation as you do not offer any new discussion points or "push a town agenda" 4) You completely ignore my suspicions on your 'wishy-washy on the fence' nature point in my case. Add in some misrepresentation (painting me as someone stupid enough to try to convince someone that they are scum) and some more sidestepping (in the form of asking me for my stance without clarifying your own at all) and right now you are my #1 read. I have already posted why I think johnnywup is town - I'd be happy to explain further but won't be doing so until you give your own stance. 1) My only behaviour after calling him out was my reponse to VE, in which I say I'm going to wait and see how the rest of the day plays out. 2) What is it a pre-emptive defense of, exactly? You can rush into whatever you want, but I'm going to wait and see how he posts for the rest of the day. Is that a scum trait? I've already said I will vote for his lynch, if we don't find someone more likely to flip scum. My "stance" never changed. 3) We do have plenty of time, keep in mind this was just a few hours after the game had started, we only had a few people posting. In my post that contains the "meat of your suspicions", I tell VE to put the breaks on a bit. I go on to say why I won't be joining his vote crusade until I've seen more of johnnys posts. Now, for whatever reason, you see it that I'm scummy because of this and you think that Johnny is a scared townie. Why then, would I wait and keep an open mind? Why doesn't scum xsk just throw an extremely easy vote on an extremely easy bandwagon? Because I'm town bro. 4) I ignored them because they're baseless. I've never been wishy-washy. My opinnion does not just change when I'm called out about it, like johnnys did. I don't care if it's unpopular. I would believe that he is 100% scum just from his responses to pressure IF it wasn't his first game, it sucks that we have to account for that, but we do, new players can make giant errors of judgement. I'm going to wait and see how he posts in the second part of day before I make my mind up. That's not being wishy-washy, it's being sensible. As for the last part, I didn't mean to imply that you are stupid, I think your case is stupid however, especially now that I'm seeing where the meat of it originated. I did not sidestep anything, I have nothing to pre-emptively defend from, and my stance on the matter should already be pretty obvious. Now, I'd LOVE to know your reasons for being so sure that johnny is town, please. Because no, you haven't stated why, all you've said was this. On March 18 2012 15:18 slOosh wrote: I think johnnywup is town and he is responding like deer caught in headlights. Why do you believe he is a newbie town and not a newbie mafia by the way he reacted? Let's roll with your example, why is he a deer and not a wolf? Both can be caught in headlights. | ||
johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
On March 19 2012 01:34 jcarlsoniv wrote: I've found out that, when put under pressure, johnnywup has been very keen on trying to clear his name, claiming he's just vanilla townie, and being very defensive in general. If he REALLY wants people to look elsewhere, he needs to start scumhunting for his own sake instead of just trying to be innocent. Innocent people don't feel the need to be innocent. Guilty people do. Of course I'm being defensive. Why would I want to die no matter what role I am? And about the scumhunting, I really have no clue who is scum at this point, I really would give reads if I had any. On March 19 2012 03:23 xsksc wrote: 1) My only behaviour after calling him out was my reponse to VE, in which I say I'm going to wait and see how the rest of the day plays out. 2) What is it a pre-emptive defense of, exactly? You can rush into whatever you want, but I'm going to wait and see how he posts for the rest of the day. Is that a scum trait? I've already said I will vote for his lynch, if we don't find someone more likely to flip scum. My "stance" never changed. 3) We do have plenty of time, keep in mind this was just a few hours after the game had started, we only had a few people posting. In my post that contains the "meat of your suspicions", I tell VE to put the breaks on a bit. I go on to say why I won't be joining his vote crusade until I've seen more of johnnys posts. Now, for whatever reason, you see it that I'm scummy because of this and you think that Johnny is a scared townie. Why then, would I wait and keep an open mind? Why doesn't scum xsk just throw an extremely easy vote on an extremely easy bandwagon? Because I'm town bro. 4) I ignored them because they're baseless. I've never been wishy-washy. My opinnion does not just change when I'm called out about it, like johnnys did. I don't care if it's unpopular. I would believe that he is 100% scum just from his responses to pressure IF it wasn't his first game, it sucks that we have to account for that, but we do, new players can make giant errors of judgement. I'm going to wait and see how he posts in the second part of day before I make my mind up. That's not being wishy-washy, it's being sensible. As for the last part, I didn't mean to imply that you are stupid, I think your case is stupid however, especially now that I'm seeing where the meat of it originated. I did not sidestep anything, I have nothing to pre-emptively defend from, and my stance on the matter should already be pretty obvious. Now, I'd LOVE to know your reasons for being so sure that johnny is town, please. Because no, you haven't stated why, all you've said was this. Why do you believe he is a newbie town and not a newbie mafia by the way he reacted? Let's roll with your example, why is he a deer and not a wolf? Both can be caught in headlights. For the sake of argument, it's very possible that I'm a newb wolf caught in headlights. But if I was scum why would my scum-mates allow me to get killed first day? | ||
jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On March 19 2012 03:57 johnnywup wrote: For the sake of argument, it's very possible that I'm a newb wolf caught in headlights. But if I was scum why would my scum-mates allow me to get killed first day? Happens all the time. In Team Fortress Mafia, Pandain derped hardcore day 1, and me and Nisani just let him roll over dead, then we were able to weasel through town and produce a win out of it despite our 4th scum mate being afk the whole game. + Show Spoiler + I know you remember that game, WBG ;P (huehue) | ||
Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
While I'm not convinced about your towniness so far I'm not seeing you in red lights just yet. Personally I don't like jcarlsoniv. He seemed to jump the wagon way to quickly. Since I also think the whole case on Johnny is somewhat weak at this point doesn't help jcarlsoniv. On March 18 2012 23:35 jcarlsoniv wrote: Omg I'm alive... Damn Toad, that diagram was super informative. Yes, awful post, but I'm getting more of a new town vibe off of it. It reminds me of my thought process when I started playing. (Assuming he's new, if he's not, then this turns into a VERY scummy post) Explain my vote, eh? Well, I voted quite early in the day. Do you know why? Because I found (and still do find) his posting to be suspicious. So I placed a vote on him. I can find out information this way. But, sorry, I didn't mean to offend you and your scum buddy. Compare what I bolded with jcarlsoniv's case on Johnny... Its the same points that I bring up against Tobon that jcarlson brings up about johnny. But when its tobon its a newbie town read and when its Johnny its a scummy read. Huh? Tobon and Jcarlsoniv are scum together. | ||
johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On March 19 2012 04:19 Dirkzor wrote: Well, Johnnyboy, some are resisting the fact that you might be scum. So that defence is pretty useless at this point. While I'm not convinced about your towniness so far I'm not seeing you in red lights just yet. Personally I don't like jcarlsoniv. He seemed to jump the wagon way to quickly. Since I also think the whole case on Johnny is somewhat weak at this point doesn't help jcarlsoniv. Compare what I bolded with jcarlsoniv's case on Johnny... Its the same points that I bring up against Tobon that jcarlson brings up about johnny. But when its tobon its a newbie town read and when its Johnny its a scummy read. Huh? Tobon and Jcarlsoniv are scum together. Cute, but wrong. If by "jump the wagon" you mean "was the first person to tag johnnywup as scum" then...yeah I guess? You raised similar points to mine on Tobon, but they are different situations. JW has been making assertive comments and then backing off right after with something like: On March 18 2012 08:32 johnnywup wrote: Of course, I could be overthinking things. But this isn't concrete evidence, and will probably change after different events. Then, after doing so a couple times and being questioned about it: On March 18 2012 10:40 johnnywup wrote: i'm bad at the game first game, that might be a reason why im so bold @_@ i dont know when or when not to be bold with reads. Tobon straight up said "I don't trust my reads much". It was the difference in doing rather than saying that raised the red flag for me on JW. I, however, by no means said I think Tobon is town. I merely said I got a townie vibe off of the one post because it reminded me of my posting and thought process in my first few games. That being said, Tobon planning to just bandwagon is scummy. We need more posts from him, and also need lurkers to stop lurking. I hate lurkers. I'm looking at you, snarfs, Toad, sandroba. | ||
johnnywup
United States3858 Posts
But the thing is, when I was questioned about my opinions I felt attacked, wrongly or rightly, but I did. So I tried to back off, as I didn't feel that strongly about what I said, I was just trying to be helpful where I could. And of course, that led to a lot of red flags from people, so I tried to show that I didn't feel strongly about it which raised more red flags..so I didn't know what to do. I was put in a situation where any newb town would be struggling, and here I am. I don't know what to say at this point, because no matter what I say people are going to be accusing me of being scum when I am not. I honestly don't know who could be town or scum at this point, so I'm not very helpful there. So there, that's my thought process during this situation. I didn't know it would lead down this path, but it did, so here I am, trying to clear my head. So keep trying to lynch me, but it's a waste of lynch, you'll get a vanilla townie and you'll get no information from any of this. | ||
xsksc
United Kingdom1044 Posts
On March 19 2012 04:51 johnnywup wrote: I don't think they're that dissimilar situations, really. But the thing is, when I was questioned about my opinions I felt attacked, wrongly or rightly, but I did. So I tried to back off, as I didn't feel that strongly about what I said, I was just trying to be helpful where I could. And of course, that led to a lot of red flags from people, so I tried to show that I didn't feel strongly about it which raised more red flags..so I didn't know what to do. I was put in a situation where any newb town would be struggling, and here I am. I don't know what to say at this point, because no matter what I say people are going to be accusing me of being scum when I am not. I honestly don't know who could be town or scum at this point, so I'm not very helpful there. So there, that's my thought process during this situation. I didn't know it would lead down this path, but it did, so here I am, trying to clear my head. So keep trying to lynch me, but it's a waste of lynch, you'll get a vanilla townie and you'll get no information from any of this. The problem is, a newbie scum who messed up would make the same exact defense here. | ||
jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
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xsksc
United Kingdom1044 Posts
What are your thoughts on the game thus far? | ||
Nemesis
Canada2568 Posts
On March 19 2012 03:18 Snarfs wrote: Hey everyone, Just /confirming now. I've read through the thread and will be putting together some thoughts shortly. It's been 2 hours since then, still gathering your thoughts? | ||
slOosh
3291 Posts
On March 19 2012 03:23 xsksc wrote: 3) We do have plenty of time, keep in mind this was just a few hours after the game had started, we only had a few people posting. In my post that contains the "meat of your suspicions", I tell VE to put the breaks on a bit. I go on to say why I won't be joining his vote crusade until I've seen more of johnnys posts. Now, for whatever reason, you see it that I'm scummy because of this and you think that Johnny is a scared townie. Why then, would I wait and keep an open mind? Why doesn't scum xsk just throw an extremely easy vote on an extremely easy bandwagon? Because I'm town bro. 4) I ignored them because they're baseless. I've never been wishy-washy. My opinnion does not just change when I'm called out about it, like johnnys did. I don't care if it's unpopular. I would believe that he is 100% scum just from his responses to pressure IF it wasn't his first game, it sucks that we have to account for that, but we do, new players can make giant errors of judgement. I'm going to wait and see how he posts in the second part of day before I make my mind up. That's not being wishy-washy, it's being sensible. As for the last part, I didn't mean to imply that you are stupid, I think your case is stupid however, especially now that I'm seeing where the meat of it originated. I did not sidestep anything, I have nothing to pre-emptively defend from, and my stance on the matter should already be pretty obvious. Now, I'd LOVE to know your reasons for being so sure that johnny is town, please. Because no, you haven't stated why, all you've said was this. Why do you believe he is a newbie town and not a newbie mafia by the way he reacted? Let's roll with your example, why is he a deer and not a wolf? Both can be caught in headlights. Nothing in your filter indicates a reservation of opinion. It's clear that you already think he is scum and are shutting down evidence from a guilty until proven innocent standpoint. On March 19 2012 05:00 xsksc wrote: The problem is, a newbie scum who messed up would make the same exact defense here. Add to that some even more misrepresentation, acknowledging the only line I mention him yet somehow construe that I am "so sure" he is town, when I made no such read. I'm now more confident from these responses ##Vote: xsksc And all of this has nothing to do with johnnywup's alignment as you think it does. It is your actions and motives in interaction with him. | ||
Snarfs
Canada1006 Posts
On March 19 2012 05:25 Nemesis wrote: It's been 2 hours since then, still gathering your thoughts? Sorry, I'm trying to play EVE with my dad while reading new replies as they come up. I'm not liking Tobon, for his one post which a couple people called out as being pretty terrible and I had the same feeling reading it, but I'll give him that he's probably learning. I'm also not liking johnnywup. Not only do we have everything that everyone else is mentioning, but also his vanilla town claim seems off. As I mentioned though, this doesn't quite have my full attention so I'm going to wait until later on this evening when I've actually had a chance to contribute to the topic before I throw my vote on anyone. I like to put a little more effort into divulging my thoughts before voting someone and I just don't have time right now. | ||
xsksc
United Kingdom1044 Posts
Regardless of how you see things, I think it's quite clear I'm reserving final judgement on johnny, I've been over this already and it's getting a bit tiring having to repeat myself. I believe in my post on him I even said I wasn't accusing him of being scum, I said I didn't like his posts and they didn't make much sense if you look at them from a town perspective. I think that yes, there is a higher chance of him flipping scum than anyone else at this point, but things can change by the end of the day. | ||
VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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Tobon
United States372 Posts
On March 19 2012 04:37 jcarlsoniv wrote: That being said, Tobon planning to just bandwagon is scummy. We need more posts from him, and also need lurkers to stop lurking. I hate lurkers. I'm looking at you, snarfs, Toad, sandroba. I'd be happy to post more. What more would you like me to talk about? And what I said was that if it came down to it, that I'd rather bandwagon than allow a no-lynch, because I believe a no-lynch to be a big waste of time. You'll notice that I haven't actually voted for or tried to push the case against anyone with lynch votes yet. But yes, if just as the current example, Johnnywup has the most votes but no majority and we're near the end of the day, I'd add my vote to try to get a lynch rather than leaving a no-lynch. | ||
xsksc
United Kingdom1044 Posts
On March 19 2012 06:13 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah, I'm kinda on the edge of my seat awaiting thoughts from several players. Come on guys, having 48 hours doesn't mean you have to take all 48 hours to read the thread. VE, what do you think of sloosh and his case on me? Does it look like a possible chainsaw defence to you? | ||
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