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Alright people, this is getting a little ridiculous. We can't let this thread stagnate midday.
Ghost and Phagga, do you agree with how I handled NightFury? Who is your greatest suspicion right now?
slOosh, what is your current stance on alderan? on k2hd? does one effect the other?
zelblade, you said that you agreed with slOosh that igabod was the easy way out. Who on the list of people who voted igabod do you find most scummy and why?
Gumshoe, if we were to lynch someone, who would provide the most information? What are the conflicts currently in the game as you see them? How do you think the scum are behaving this game to bring us to this point?
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Just got back home, trying to catch up on this new NightFury and subsequent k2hd thing, and will post before sleeping for sure.
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Reading over, and it seems like I totally missed Hyde's case against Alderan, probably because when I came back N1 was over and it got buried under the N1 Wifom discussions.
Its a solid case, and strangely enough, Alderan has totally ignored it and focused on my case alone, even though it was a response to his question:
On February 29 2012 06:58 Alderan wrote:
Jekyll, what do you think about the current cases at hand, namely the ones against Chocolate, myslef, and k2hd.
I thought he responded decently against my case, so I put him in null, and I really want to hear his defense of this before casting a vote on him, as I believe I am suspect to confirmation bias after being so involved in discussion with him and want to approach it with a clear, refreshed mind.
As for k2hd (considering him independently of Alderan)
His filter doesn't bring up that much content after N1 is over, and I was giving him the benefit of the doubt as he is a hydra (therefore more busy etc.), but after this post, there isn't any reason I should
On February 28 2012 22:04 k2hd wrote:
Also, I should be able to post more in the 2 upcoming days, because I don't have uni.
Again, all posts on k2hd account by BassInSpace.
His D2 posts consist of little tidbits on the N1 actions, the confusion around roleblock and then a small question on my Alderan case, ending with calling out nttea (who rightfully should be called out - seriously where is this guy?).
Its hard to get a proper read because of the lack of content in his filter, but that in itself is a tell - I'm leaning mafia lurker.
Now as for their interactions, it is really strange.
Alderan puts up a case against k2hd, but as Hyde points out he drops case and suspects Janaan.
k2hd seems to suspect Alderan, but (if you follow his filter), he never gets a response, and for no clear reason he drops his suspicions on Alderan and starts soft defending him when the heat on him starts turning up.
As individuals their actions are suspect.
As a pair their actions are even more suspect - perhaps they are faking an "argument" early game creating safety nets where if one flips the other won't be suspected. I don't think this is pure speculation as both of them drop their cases on each other, and they dropped off their interaction around start of D2.
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Alright, gotta sleep now. DYH I don't think right now holding off too much on your case is the best choice.
Right now our votes are spread between 4 suspects, and it is critical that we rally and focus on the best possible choice. It could be the case that more than 1 of them are mafia, but even then we should be unified in which one to lynch.
Thinking about our friends in alternate timezones, they may not be able to read your case and we can't really bank on Alderan and k2hd posting satisfactorily and I think in this situation a soft deadline would also be helpful.
But I trust your judgement - we need content from everyone and not just a few of us.
I just want us to be mindful of the situation that we are in.
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For any who are awake, I will be posting my case in about 2 hours. I've been taking my time collecting my thoughts and going through filters, to build these cases, but have to go to dinner now.
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I believe that chocolate is town.
He's had a LOT of pressure put on him due to his sub-par posting on day 1, and had to defend himself left, right and centre for the rest of day 1. He's spent most of his time on defensive posts, and perhaps hasn't been able to focus on gathering much of his own evidence on other players. He is very aggressive in trying to force lurkers to post more by voting, but as was mentioned by DYH, this could just have been a poorly thought out way of fostering discussion. I understand that it may have been an easy way to avoid generating original content/cases of his own, but again, this is probably just the play style of a townie who is unsure of what to do, or who would rather not stick his head out too much. I did not check up on everyone's previous games, but from what I gather from what others have said, chocolate was mafia in his last game, had to tone down his posting because it was too aggressive, and hasn't played town before (unless he's had another game that I don't know about).
There is also this post by chocolate:
On February 28 2012 11:26 Chocolate wrote:
You do realize that is basically a vote swing, which you state is bad? Stand by your words. If I get lynched we will get good info on alderan, gum, dyh, sloosh, Phagga, and night.
Why would he argue so confidently against a vote swing AWAY from him?
Chocolate is also one of the first to start getting suspicious of alderan. After day 1, some of the heat was finally lifted off of him and focused on alderan by others. Following this, we have sloosh post a large case against alderan, followed by JekylAndHyde's case, and alderan is under more and more pressure. Instead of continuing his case against alderan, chocolate decides to launch a case against night fury of all people, who no one had posted any suspicions against yet. If he were mafia, why would he not join others in pressuring alderan (or the case that is piling up against gumshoe), and go for a target who would be harder to mislynch? I sincerely believe chocolate is town, and that some of those pressuring him hard are looking scummy to me.
Those who voted chocolate on day 1: phagga, sloosh, NightFury, ghost
I currently do not have as much info as I'd like on NightFury to say much about him.
Sloosh's actions seem pro-town to me so far, and though he has not posted as much as others, his posts have generally been full of content.
Now for the remaining two:
Phagga has been trying very hard for a chocolate lynch the whole game. He takes a moment to call gumshoe out on why he didn't change his vote from ghost, and why he felt the need to "take responsibility" for voting chocolate if he flipped green, and then goes straight back to attacking chocolate. He is either getting tunnel vision with chocolate, or trying to get the mislynch on him. Have a look at this post. He accuses chocolate of relying on the arguments of others, and voting lurkers (a policy which he did state at the start), but ignores the fact that it is chocolate who first brought up a case against alderan (albeit a rather lackluster one) and states emphatically that he will vote chocolate again on day 2, presumably for not coming up with original cases/evidence, when there was still 48 irl hours for chocolate to contribute on day 2 (day 1 had not even ended yet). This early vote behaviour was the same thing we called nttea out for when he wanted a default alderan lynch.
Then we have ghost. His last few posts have all been aimed at chocolate. here they are
Ghost and phagga engage in banter that seems like bullying chocolate to me in the first post, and the second post is unnecessary, because although chocolate did not do anything like make a new case, it was still a valid point. Nttea should not be posting like that, and if he is as clueless as he says he is, chocolate was only helping him. The way he analyses the chocolate quotes in the third post is very condescending in tone. He could have done so without putting chocolate down, as others in the thread have done.
I also do not trust this post made by ghost:
On February 28 2012 11:03 ghost_403 wrote:
You see, this is how I see it.
We could vote to lynch Igabod. That's not even really a bad idea. He's been lurking hardcore. Kinda scummy if you ask me. And I don't like scummy. However, his flip doesn't tell us anything. Maybe, we'll get lucky and lynch a scum. Odds are about, what, 28%? You can do worse than that.
Other option: You lynch either me or chocolate. I think it's pretty well established, one of the two of us is scum. If whoever gets lynched flips red, awesome! Lynched a scum! If not, guess who the first person on the chopping block is tomorrow. The guy who wasn't lynched. Either way, going into day 3, the town is down one scum.
Trying to gain the trust of the town by encouraging a chocolate or ghost lynch on day 1. If chocolate flipped green, suspicion may still have fallen off of ghost because mafia would presumably not make a post like this. I realise that this point is a bit WIFOM (I think I'm using the term correctly?).
Basically, it seems to me that phagga and ghost are actively trying to discredit chocolate after his already shaky start, and possibly also get the mislynch on him.
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Sloosh, I was never more than mildly suspicious of alderan. I did make some points against him, but note that I then said this:
However, I don't think I have enough yet to be any more than moderately suspicious of either at this point (would alderan really shove himself into the spotlight this much if he were mafia? It must be awfully hard to keep from any slips this way... But I'm new to mafia, so who knows).
So I was still very unsure about alderan. As for me suddenly dropping my case against alderan, it's just that ghost and phagga have stood out to me more now, after going through the most recent posts. I soft defended alderan because if there is going to be a case against him, I wanted those issues which I brought up to be dealt with first, so that I could be more open to an alderan case. My speculation on the mafia's intent on the hit and its impact on alderan is, after reading what others think, WIFOM and I will not harp on it any longer.
Going through the most recent posts, however, and coming to my chocolate conclusions, phagga and ghost stood out to me more. As for alderan not responding to me... Well, if you go through my posts, you'll notice that it seems to be a trend that nobody really responds to me in any real meaningful way. In this regard I feel the same as nightfury. This part is addressed to DYH as well.
As I stated, my time zone and university timetable make it hard for me to contribute while everyone is around. When I get home, there is already a lot of content and cases for me to go through. When I'm home I do not actively jump in to post much because a lot of what I may have wanted to say has already been said. If I rehash them, I am accused of recycling other's arguments and being poor town (in fact alderan already pointed this out) or generating contentless posts for a pro mafia cause. Because of this, I prefer to take my time in posting, going through posts and filters looking for original evidence or new cases to make that haven't already been mentioned, which takes me awhile, as I am away for extended periods of time while discussion is occurring. And, like nightfury, this is my very first TL and forum mafia game. I do not have a good grasp of generating good discussion, and quite frankly the ability of some of you in the thread to absorb so much information so quickly and post your thoughts makes me feel like I want to hold off on my own posting so that I can REALLY think about, and make my own good points, before presenting them to you. That being said, it looks like I was not successful in making meaningful posts in your eyes. I apologise for not posting as much as others in the thread (even after taking time zone into consideration), but I will continue posting like this for the rest of the game and even others, until I get better at it.
I had actually been wondering when more people would start calling me out for my posting habits so far.
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EBWOP
Others' arguments instead of other's arguments. Sorry, wrongly placed apostrophes bug me.
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To k2hd:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 19:39 k2hd wrote:I believe that chocolate is town. He's had a LOT of pressure put on him due to his sub-par posting on day 1, and had to defend himself left, right and centre for the rest of day 1. He's spent most of his time on defensive posts, and perhaps hasn't been able to focus on gathering much of his own evidence on other players. He is very aggressive in trying to force lurkers to post more by voting, but as was mentioned by DYH, this could just have been a poorly thought out way of fostering discussion. I understand that it may have been an easy way to avoid generating original content/cases of his own, but again, this is probably just the play style of a townie who is unsure of what to do, or who would rather not stick his head out too much. I did not check up on everyone's previous games, but from what I gather from what others have said, chocolate was mafia in his last game, had to tone down his posting because it was too aggressive, and hasn't played town before (unless he's had another game that I don't know about). There is also this post by chocolate: Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 11:26 Chocolate wrote:
You do realize that is basically a vote swing, which you state is bad? Stand by your words. If I get lynched we will get good info on alderan, gum, dyh, sloosh, Phagga, and night. Why would he argue so confidently against a vote swing AWAY from him? 1Chocolate is also one of the first to start getting suspicious of alderan. After day 1, some of the heat was finally lifted off of him and focused on alderan by others. Following this, we have sloosh post a large case against alderan, followed by JekylAndHyde's case, and alderan is under more and more pressure. Instead of continuing his case against alderan, chocolate decides to launch a case against night fury of all people, who no one had posted any suspicions against yet. If he were mafia, why would he not join others in pressuring alderan (or the case that is piling up against gumshoe), and go for a target who would be harder to mislynch? I sincerely believe chocolate is town, and that some of those pressuring him hard are looking scummy to me. Those who voted chocolate on day 1: phagga, sloosh, NightFury, ghostI currently do not have as much info as I'd like on NightFury to say much about him. Sloosh's actions seem pro-town to me so far, and though he has not posted as much as others, his posts have generally been full of content. Now for the remaining two: Phagga has been trying very hard for a chocolate lynch the whole game. 2 He takes a moment to call gumshoe out on why he didn't change his vote from ghost, and why he felt the need to "take responsibility" for voting chocolate if he flipped green, and then goes straight back to attacking chocolate. He is either getting tunnel vision with chocolate 3, or trying to get the mislynch on him. Have a look at this post. He accuses chocolate of relying on the arguments of others, and voting lurkers (a policy which he did state at the start), but ignores the fact that it is chocolate who first brought up a case against alderan (albeit a rather lackluster one) and states emphatically that he will vote chocolate again on day 2, presumably for not coming up with original cases/evidence, when there was still 48 irl hours for chocolate to contribute on day 2 (day 1 had not even ended yet). This early vote behaviour was the same thing we called nttea out for when he wanted a default alderan lynch. Then we have ghost. His last few posts have all been aimed at chocolate. here they areGhost and phagga engage in banter that seems like bullying chocolate to me in the first post, and the second post is unnecessary, because although chocolate did not do anything like make a new case, it was still a valid point. Nttea should not be posting like that, and if he is as clueless as he says he is, chocolate was only helping him. The way he analyses the chocolate quotes in the third post is very condescending in tone. He could have done so without putting chocolate down, as others in the thread have done. 1bI also do not trust this post made by ghost: Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 11:03 ghost_403 wrote:
You see, this is how I see it.
We could vote to lynch Igabod. That's not even really a bad idea. He's been lurking hardcore. Kinda scummy if you ask me. And I don't like scummy. However, his flip doesn't tell us anything. Maybe, we'll get lucky and lynch a scum. Odds are about, what, 28%? You can do worse than that.
Other option: You lynch either me or chocolate. I think it's pretty well established, one of the two of us is scum. If whoever gets lynched flips red, awesome! Lynched a scum! If not, guess who the first person on the chopping block is tomorrow. The guy who wasn't lynched. Either way, going into day 3, the town is down one scum. Trying to gain the trust of the town by encouraging a chocolate or ghost lynch on day 1. If chocolate flipped green, suspicion may still have fallen off of ghost because mafia would presumably not make a post like this. I realise that this point is a bit WIFOM (I think I'm using the term correctly?). Basically, it seems to me that phagga and ghost are actively trying to discredit chocolate after his already shaky start, and possibly also get the mislynch on him.
1 You are aware that later in your post at 1b you quote ghost_403 who wrote against a vote switch away from him and chocolate, and say that that post is a reason you don't trust ghost_403? This is contradictory.
2 The question you should ask yourself here is: Is this something a townie would do? And if so, is it also something scum would do? I doubt scum would want to stay in the spotlight like that.
Also, If you are town, and you feel strongly about someone being scum, what are you gonna do?
- Try to push a lynch on that person even if people will not listen to you
- let the person of the hook because noone listens to you, and pick another target
I would be stupid to push his lynch so hard if I was scum and knew he was town. When he would get lynched and flipped green, everyone would be on my heels. You do not want that as scum, specially not so early in the game.
Nothing Chocolate said so far convinced me that he is not scum. That's why I still want him lynched.
3 I am aware that I am prone to tunneling Chocolate, and I am currently reading through several filters (again) to give an update on who else I think is fishy.
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I did actually think about that after making my post phagga, but decided to wait for someone to point it out so as not to spam. I would argue that it was safer for ghost to make a post like that because there was more pressure on chocolate, than on him, so there was a lower chance of people calling ghost's bluff. I will be confirming my vote roughly 10-12 hours from now. I would like to read what others think when they wake up, but currently I am more inclined to vote for ghost than for you. And so, tentatively:
##Vote: ghost_403
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Don't have much time to post but my style last game was very passive and lurky, k2hd. Phagga 1b is a good point, 2 is looking pretty wifom, and I'm glad to hear about 3.
K2 I'm really glad to see you posting. Keep it up
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EBWOP
I suppose I should mention that i have class all day tomorrow (morning excluded), but I have a little time to change my vote and post a few thoughts if a better target comes up/someone can convince me not to vote ghost in the morning when I'm up and on the computer (about 11 hours from now). However, any substantial posts will probably be made around the same time as my last few posts.
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I would be stupid to push his lynch so hard if I was scum and knew he was town. When he would get lynched and flipped green, everyone would be on my heels. You do not want that as scum, specially not so early in the game.
Perhaps it is enough that chocolate is discredited, and you know you don't have the numbers to mislynch him without mafia stacking on him. At this stage, there is a low chance of chocolate actually being lynched and thus, flipping green, since there are multiple cases out on alderan, gumshoe and myself. It is also a convenient way of wasting a vote and not committing to anyone else, but as you say, I will wait to see what you have to say about others when you're done with their filters. I will try my best to see what you have to say in the morning before class. This is why I am placing a preliminary vote on ghost first.
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EBWOP
I'm off for the night, apologies for the spam on this page.
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I agree with DYH that the activity (or lack thereof) is astounding. Its less than 12 hours to lynch, yet we dont have any clear targets. What we need to do now is to consolidate the lynch. Right now, there are votes scattered on gum, ald, ghost and chocolate. Whilst im pretty sure it is likely there is at least one scum and most likely more in there, we need to agree on who to lynch, prefably before the deadline.
Regarding the day 1 lynch, I feel that scum would definately have spread out their votes, and it is pretty unlikely that they all dumped their votes onto one person. Of the igabod train, who i feel most suspisious of is k2hd. His filter was pretty bare before recent posts, and the fact that he only started posting content when pressured feels wierd. Steveling was another suspect for me as I had read through the thread for the first time. I found him being lazy and not wanting to play being wierd as shit - why sign up if you know you arent going to play? Test (who replaced Steve) hasnt been giving off townie vibes either.
Another suspision from the igabod train I actually had was DYH. I found him not willing to switch to steveling because he didnt "trust" Aldrean, even though he said that he agreeded with him. However, I do think that DYH is town now - he is obviously putting in effort into the game and is making good sense.
I still believe that gumshoe will be the best lynch, and the most likely to flip scum imo. He still hasnt posted anything of substance, even though he has promised to do so, which is really wierd considering that he is always one of the most active posters so far in both this game and the last. My thoughts regarding him I have already elaborated on.
Also Aldrean where the hell did you go to?
I would be fine today with a gumshoe or k2hd lynch, in that order. Aldrean might not be a bad lynch either if he continues lurking so hard, but I would prefer leaving him for tomorrow.
I need to go sleep soon, someone who can be active during the deadline please try to consolidate the lynch. We cannot afford to no-lynch today.
P.S. I can change my vote from my phone before deadline if need be.
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Generally: I don't care if this is anyones first game on TL Mafia. This is a newbie game, noone has a lot of experience with TL Mafia. This game is here to learn, so please stop making excuses like that. I have already skipped several paragraphs who start with that, and I will continue to skip them in the future.
DoYouHas:
On March 01 2012 14:57 DoYouHas wrote:
Alright people, this is getting a little ridiculous. We can't let this thread stagnate midday.
Ghost and Phagga, do you agree with how I handled NightFury?
No, I don't agree. You accused him of not generating content. He agrees, but then only writes an excuse, and you are already giving him a free pass. Now there is no more pressure on him to generate real content, which is what would have given us more information on him. You left him of the hook way to early. Instead, I would have liked to see you call him out on his confession of not generating content, and pressure him more at least until he starts generating content.
I noticed several times that people don't want to pressure someone anymore after the target went from scummy to towny. Why not? If you already started, pressure some more. Townies don't need to be afraid to get pressured. After all, they have no reason to lie, and if they write what they think and observe, than they have nothing to fear. And it will generate more information which will enable more people to judge better if someone is town or not.
But if you let Nightfury of the hook like that, and nightfury gets lynched anyway and flips red, I will immediatly get suspicious about your reluctance to pressure him after making a case on him.
On March 01 2012 14:57 DoYouHas wrote:
Who is your greatest suspicion right now?
- Chocolate
- Gumshoe
- Alderan
k2hd:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 22:16 k2hd wrote:Show nested quote +I would be stupid to push his lynch so hard if I was scum and knew he was town. When he would get lynched and flipped green, everyone would be on my heels. You do not want that as scum, specially not so early in the game. Perhaps it is enough that chocolate is discredited, and you know you don't have the numbers to mislynch him without mafia stacking on him. At this stage, there is a low chance of chocolate actually being lynched and thus, flipping green, since there are multiple cases out on alderan, gumshoe and myself. It is also a convenient way of wasting a vote and not committing to anyone else, but as you say, I will wait to see what you have to say about others when you're done with their filters. I will try my best to see what you have to say in the morning before class. This is why I am placing a preliminary vote on ghost first.
This is just not true. On the first day, my vote was on Chocolate the whole day. After this vote + Show Spoiler +On February 28 2012 07:36 NightFury wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote: Chocolate
+ Show Spoiler +On February 28 2012 08:36 phagga wrote:
So, folks, I will be offline for the night in about 20 minutes. So far my vote stays on Chocolate. I have read a few interesting things about others (specially steveling), but so far nothing could convince me to switch my vote to another person. I still think Chocolate is our best lynch. On February 28 2012 10:00 phagga wrote:
I'm off to bed now. My vote stays on chocolate.
That was 2 hours before the deadline. There was still the possibility that he would get lynched. 40 minutes before the deadline JekyllAndHyde unvoted Chocolate.
Chocolate:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 20:58 phagga wrote:To k2hd: + Show Spoiler +On March 01 2012 19:39 k2hd wrote:I believe that chocolate is town. He's had a LOT of pressure put on him due to his sub-par posting on day 1, and had to defend himself left, right and centre for the rest of day 1. He's spent most of his time on defensive posts, and perhaps hasn't been able to focus on gathering much of his own evidence on other players. He is very aggressive in trying to force lurkers to post more by voting, but as was mentioned by DYH, this could just have been a poorly thought out way of fostering discussion. I understand that it may have been an easy way to avoid generating original content/cases of his own, but again, this is probably just the play style of a townie who is unsure of what to do, or who would rather not stick his head out too much. I did not check up on everyone's previous games, but from what I gather from what others have said, chocolate was mafia in his last game, had to tone down his posting because it was too aggressive, and hasn't played town before (unless he's had another game that I don't know about). There is also this post by chocolate: Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 11:26 Chocolate wrote:
You do realize that is basically a vote swing, which you state is bad? Stand by your words. If I get lynched we will get good info on alderan, gum, dyh, sloosh, Phagga, and night. Why would he argue so confidently against a vote swing AWAY from him? 1Chocolate is also one of the first to start getting suspicious of alderan. After day 1, some of the heat was finally lifted off of him and focused on alderan by others. Following this, we have sloosh post a large case against alderan, followed by JekylAndHyde's case, and alderan is under more and more pressure. Instead of continuing his case against alderan, chocolate decides to launch a case against night fury of all people, who no one had posted any suspicions against yet. If he were mafia, why would he not join others in pressuring alderan (or the case that is piling up against gumshoe), and go for a target who would be harder to mislynch? I sincerely believe chocolate is town, and that some of those pressuring him hard are looking scummy to me. Those who voted chocolate on day 1: phagga, sloosh, NightFury, ghostI currently do not have as much info as I'd like on NightFury to say much about him. Sloosh's actions seem pro-town to me so far, and though he has not posted as much as others, his posts have generally been full of content. Now for the remaining two: Phagga has been trying very hard for a chocolate lynch the whole game. 2 He takes a moment to call gumshoe out on why he didn't change his vote from ghost, and why he felt the need to "take responsibility" for voting chocolate if he flipped green, and then goes straight back to attacking chocolate. He is either getting tunnel vision with chocolate 3, or trying to get the mislynch on him. Have a look at this post. He accuses chocolate of relying on the arguments of others, and voting lurkers (a policy which he did state at the start), but ignores the fact that it is chocolate who first brought up a case against alderan (albeit a rather lackluster one) and states emphatically that he will vote chocolate again on day 2, presumably for not coming up with original cases/evidence, when there was still 48 irl hours for chocolate to contribute on day 2 (day 1 had not even ended yet). This early vote behaviour was the same thing we called nttea out for when he wanted a default alderan lynch. Then we have ghost. His last few posts have all been aimed at chocolate. here they areGhost and phagga engage in banter that seems like bullying chocolate to me in the first post, and the second post is unnecessary, because although chocolate did not do anything like make a new case, it was still a valid point. Nttea should not be posting like that, and if he is as clueless as he says he is, chocolate was only helping him. The way he analyses the chocolate quotes in the third post is very condescending in tone. He could have done so without putting chocolate down, as others in the thread have done. 1bI also do not trust this post made by ghost: Show nested quote +On February 28 2012 11:03 ghost_403 wrote:
You see, this is how I see it.
We could vote to lynch Igabod. That's not even really a bad idea. He's been lurking hardcore. Kinda scummy if you ask me. And I don't like scummy. However, his flip doesn't tell us anything. Maybe, we'll get lucky and lynch a scum. Odds are about, what, 28%? You can do worse than that.
Other option: You lynch either me or chocolate. I think it's pretty well established, one of the two of us is scum. If whoever gets lynched flips red, awesome! Lynched a scum! If not, guess who the first person on the chopping block is tomorrow. The guy who wasn't lynched. Either way, going into day 3, the town is down one scum. Trying to gain the trust of the town by encouraging a chocolate or ghost lynch on day 1. If chocolate flipped green, suspicion may still have fallen off of ghost because mafia would presumably not make a post like this. I realise that this point is a bit WIFOM (I think I'm using the term correctly?). Basically, it seems to me that phagga and ghost are actively trying to discredit chocolate after his already shaky start, and possibly also get the mislynch on him. You are aware that later in your post at 1b you quote ghost_403 who wrote against a vote switch away from him and chocolate, and say that that post is a reason you don't trust ghost_403? This is contradictory. 2 The question you should ask yourself here is: Is this something a townie would do? And if so, is it also something scum would do? I doubt scum would want to stay in the spotlight like that.
Also, If you are town, and you feel strongly about someone being scum, what are you gonna do?
- Try to push a lynch on that person even if people will not listen to you
- let the person of the hook because noone listens to you, and pick another target
I would be stupid to push his lynch so hard if I was scum and knew he was town. When he would get lynched and flipped green, everyone would be on my heels. You do not want that as scum, specially not so early in the game.
Nothing Chocolate said so far convinced me that he is not scum. That's why I still want him lynched.3 I am aware that I am prone to tunneling Chocolate, and I am currently reading through several filters (again) to give an update on who else I think is fishy.
On March 01 2012 21:50 Chocolate wrote:
Don't have much time to post but my style last game was very passive and lurky, k2hd. Phagga 1b is a good point, 2 is looking pretty wifom, and I'm glad to hear about 3.
K2 I'm really glad to see you posting. Keep it up
I disagree. Scum does not want to be in the spotlight. People in the spotlight get analyzed more, and scum has to play a role / lie to look townie, so the chance that people will reveal their true role is higher. You will not often find scum that is going to play aggresively, and most of the time they won't get far with it because they have to hide too much.
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Who I find to be scummy and would be ok to lynch (in this order):
- Chocolate
- gumshoe: A lot of fluff, not much content. I don't like how he wanted to take responsibility for a chocolate lynch, his explanation did not convince me completely. Then he started zelblade for the roleblock information, which looked like rolefishing to me. The way he suddenly was asking for replacement was just... well, let's just say it pissed me off. This is clear anti-town behaviour.
- Alderan: I never liked his hypothetical dialog between ghost_403 and Chocolate. Also:
On February 28 2012 09:44 Alderan wrote:
Currently I find k2hd questionable as well, but I don't have a concrete case and it's too late in the voting period to be discussing a brand new case I feel. Will be a good one fore tomorrow, especially if igabod flips green.
On February 28 2012 09:51 Alderan wrote:
I honestly get the feeling Steveling is more likely to be scum than igabod, It's only on't a gut feeling, but let's be real, we're lynching lurkers, we don't have much else.
##vote: Steveling
At this point we already had trouble finding a fitting lynch target. And while several people had talked about steveling behaving scummy, noone had voted him. Alderan even acknowledges that it is late in the vote to bring in new cases, but votes for a person that noone had voted at that point nevertheless. And his argumentation is that steveling is more likely to be scum. I don't like that one at all.
Whereelse will we find scum? Somewhere in k2hd and nttea I guess. There are some people that I get more or less a null read atm, and only two that I see as townish.
Just to make this clear: The vote deadline is at 4am in my timezone (CET), so I will probably not be online then. I will come online again 4-6 hours before the deadline. For now, my vote stays on Chocolate.
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On March 01 2012 20:58 phagga wrote:
2 The question you should ask yourself here is: Is this something a townie would do? And if so, is it also something scum would do? I doubt scum would want to stay in the spotlight like that.
Also, If you are town, and you feel strongly about someone being scum, what are you gonna do?
- Try to push a lynch on that person even if people will not listen to you
- let the person of the hook because noone listens to you, and pick another target
I would be stupid to push his lynch so hard if I was scum and knew he was town. When he would get lynched and flipped green, everyone would be on my heels. You do not want that as scum, specially not so early in the game.
This is wrong. It is equally as possible that mafia would tunnel someone that hard. Tunneling someone into a lynch, on a green flip, makes it very hard for the town to determine whether it was just bad town play or scummy play. It is an easy way for a scum to get into and out of the spotlight without offering anything more than a null read on them. It also lowers the town's expectations for them for the rest of the game. Similarly, being willing to back off a case is just as often a trait of a townie who has changed their mind as it is a scum who wants a bandwagon. WIFOM my friend, WIFOM.
I also find myself oddly comfortable with either a k2hd, gumshoe, or Alderan lynch. I think they all have good reasons to be lynched, but I will wait a little longer to see what people think before I make my preference clear.
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EBWOP: what more people think* (phagga, zelblade, and k2hd have been pretty clear)
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Ok guys, sorry about the absence, was going to take the afternoon off after my last post but then I got caught up with some GF shit all night last night.
Let's see what we got here:
I think I can address all of Sloosh and Jekyll's worries about me in one sentence:
A person can have more than one case active at a time, especially when the town is as inactive as this one.
Look, I posted a couple cases of people I find scummy at the end of the night/beginning of the day period to see what everyone thinks about the cases. Sloosh I used to think you were just playing poorly (while ridiculing my play nonetheless) but now I realize you are just misleading the town to cast suspicion on me.
Alderan puts up a case against k2hd, but as Hyde points out he drops case and suspects Janaan.
I did not drop anything, I'm suspicious of multiple people, ya know, because there are more than one scum.
Then you had this post: On March 01 2012 15:52 slOosh wrote:
Alright, gotta sleep now. DYH I don't think right now holding off too much on your case is the best choice.
Right now our votes are spread between 4 suspects, and it is critical that we rally and focus on the best possible choice. It could be the case that more than 1 of them are mafia, but even then we should be unified in which one to lynch.
Thinking about our friends in alternate timezones, they may not be able to read your case and we can't really bank on Alderan and k2hd posting satisfactorily and I think in this situation a soft deadline would also be helpful.
But I trust your judgement - we need content from everyone and not just a few of us.
I just want us to be mindful of the situation that we are in.
What in the hell does that even mean? Again you continue to try to discredit my name, my cases, and my contributions for seemingly no reason. You already admit that you don't find me as suspicious as you originally did with your first case, so why the blatant cut down.
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EPT
