EPTOn February 22 2012 12:58 kitaman27 wrote:
Yikes, did I touch on a sensitive issue?
lol
Yikes, did I touch on a sensitive issue?
lol
he's caught between a rock and a dumb place
Storm Mafia - Page 25
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
he's caught between a rock and a dumb place | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
On February 22 2012 12:56 wherebugsgo wrote: Because you sheeped and syllogism didn't. prpl would be a scumread too if he was normally any good. But, it's nothing out of the ordinary to expect prplhz to make a bad argument, so despite the fact that he agrees with an opinion I disagree with it isn't alignment indicative for him. I probably could, but I don't have to, since the burden of proof is on you. If you want to convince someone to vote BC you need to come up with a convincing argument first. For now, since your vote reason is poor, no one has a reason to follow you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophic_burden_of_proof I stated my reasons. If you'd like me to do so in more detail, I can do that. I'm not sheeping syllogism, in fact I did not even read his post as I've been busy all day but BC's lack of activity and the few posts I have read jump out to me as scummy and since I'm torn between redFF being awful town or scum, I'm going with BC. You "probably" could? If you are going to say any vote on BC is terribad and call people scum for it have some confidence. When I actually have time to look through filters tomorrow maybe you'll feel I'm more justified but it doesn't seem you're all that concerned about it really. | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
Again, as I said before, the burden of proof is on you. If you want to tell me BC is scum and that I should vote for him, come up with a convincing argument for him being scum. So far, you've told me that you think he's scum based on his "lack of activity" and the fact that "his posts jump out to me as scummy." Neither of these things is at all alignment-indicative, so why are you stretching to pretend as if your argument is worth more than it really is? It doesn't take a genius to figure out that an argument of "this guy has posted five times and he looks scummy" is god awful. In fact, what you just said is more a soft-defend of redFF than it is an accusation of BC. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
He's playing negatively, passively, he's criticizing others for not contributing past the PL discussion but offers nothing to the thread himself. WBG won't give me an ounce of credit, but I did point out a bit more than just "uhhhh he looked scummy uhhh" and this post was meant to justify my vote change before I made a real case. I'd rather avoid scum and the sheeple jumping on me for changing my vote quietly. I've been out and about all night but considering my doubts with redFF I'm not going to keep my vote on him when I feel better about somebody else. Calling that a soft defense is stupid. You have been defending red much harder based on nothing but meta reads early in this game. I am currently more intrigued at the people who have let policy discussion run so damn rampant for even this short a duration of a game who (in my mind) should know better. This is, in essence, saying we should be scumhunting instead. Something that BC has not done and justified not doing, when I see no reason that town-BC would act in this manner. This is a typical scum posting behavior, they act like they are contributing or juuuuuust about to do some great things for town and just never do it. Instead of contributing something positive, they just criticize and put down/parrot what other people are doing and this can sometimes give the illusion that they have done something useful. The best way to get town on the right track is not by telling everyone they suck and to shut up, it is to post well/make cases and guide the discussion in the right direction. This was essentially the main point in syllogisms argument if I'm not mistaken. Can you explain why that is wrong and terrible, WBG? On February 22 2012 10:37 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Why did I subject myself to read this fucking nonsense. Do I have to say this? Role does not equal alignment. Redff claiming his role in hopes to confirm his alignment is horseshit. In an unknown setup and him claiming that there may be multi target abilities the chances of mafia having a role to find said abilities is just as within reason as the town. He then states that if he is roleblocked to lynch him, but says its not optimal to lynch claimed blues? Contradiction and sounds like hes just finding any reason to stay alive. This level of play is so insanely bad that it makes me sad. He knows all this and yet still does the play to create a total shit fest of a thread and does not in anyway create a pro town environment. As for syllo. Get off my nuts. 5 hours is never enough information to actually commit to a read especially given my horrible ability to differentiate between bad play and bad scum. Find other straw men to go burn. ##vote redff My understanding is that redFF is saying he shouldn't be lynched right away except under the exceptional circumstances he mentioned. It's not a contradiction, it's an exception. If I'm wrong about that point it out but I'll go over red's filter again and check myself. Get off my nuts. 5 hours is never enough information to actually commit to a read especially given my horrible ability to differentiate between bad play and bad scum. Find other straw men to go burn. I'm certainly not asking you to go nail the scum in 5 hours, you're being asked to contribute beyond being negative about what's going on already. You can tell us all how bad we are as long as you want, you've been on TL long enough to know that won't do anything except fan the flames. Inject a little bit of good into it. Nice job justifying your lack of effort, negging yourself a little bit. I think BC is scum and I'm voting for him. Considering it's still Day 1 it's not a homerun 100% nailed done deal fucking case, but I'm going to put my vote where I feel it needs to be. I don't care that BC is a vet or any other nonsense meta arguments for lynching/not lynching any player in this game. | ||
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DoctorHelvetica
United States15034 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
WUUUUUT? ##Unvote redFF ##Vote BloodyC0bbler | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
Only post from BC in which he votes for redff and doesn't even call him scum, just someone who isn't creating "a pro town environment". I don't personally think that is redff's speciality as town, so it's basically a meaningless point. Given BC's activity and posting hours it doesn't look like he'll be convincing me that he is town before the deadline. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
Did you ever get around to looking at the whole WBG/chaoser thing sir? I feel like that exchange means something. chaoser's defense was solid, but I didn't mind WBG's attack either. However, chaoser still seems to be interested in finding scum, while WBG has only recently been calling red scum...he's been tunneled in on chaoser ever since that argument. I'm starting to get a red read on WBG. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
Also, I think that if there is a scum tracker, there is likely a town tracker as well and thus if there is another tracker out there, it might be worthwhile to counter claim redff at some point today. Tracker is a useful role, but not essential and certainly worth outing if it almost guarantees a scum lynch on day 1. Since I believe redff really is a tracker rather than just scum fake claiming, no counter claim would be relatively strong evidence of him being a town aligned tracker. Tracker is also a role that isn't easy to use, so it makes sense to be present in this setup, considering that this is supposedly a challenging one. Redff while your outburst feels genuine, you should keep posting today. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 22 2012 16:33 syllogism wrote: It's not without a question; I've a quite a few town reads and out of the remaining people BC has looked worst, but despite him personally likely not being around to convince me, I will look into others today. Also, I think that if there is a scum tracker, there is likely a town tracker as well and thus if there is another tracker out there, it might be worthwhile to counter claim redff at some point today. Tracker is a useful role, but not essential and certainly worth outing if it almost guarantees a scum lynch on day 1. Since I believe redff really is a tracker rather than just scum fake claiming, no counter claim would be relatively strong evidence of him being a town aligned tracker. Tracker is also a role that isn't easy to use, so it makes sense to be present in this setup, considering that this is supposedly a challenging one. Redff while your outburst feels genuine, you should keep posting today. Wait, so you think that if redFF is scum, you still believe his claim? Why would scum volunteer information to town like that? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On February 22 2012 16:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Wait, so you think that if redFF is scum, you still believe his claim? Why would scum volunteer information to town like that? No, I'm saying that I believe redff is a tracker. I also believe that if there is a scum tracker, there is also a town tracker. Thus, if redff is scum, there is a town tracker out there who can counterclaim. If there is no counter claim, I believe redff is town purely based on that fact. It's not rock solid, but it is reasonable. Aside that, I personally think redff is town based on other evidence, but in case I'm wrong my suggestion helps. Further, if there is no counter claim and others find my logic reasonable, this would prevent us from lynching our tracker. | ||
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
WBG apparently wants to de-friend everyone in the game and is doing a good job so far. Blazinghand is being to quite this game and his post are much shorter then they usually are. I know he have wanted to post less then he did his first games but his post usually don't lack this much substance. I would say BH is a good lynch candidate. I haven't read his filter in detail but I will later. Also he haven't used thw word "hustle" at all this game - maybe he is the one doing the hustling? And yes I still think chaoser is a bit scummy, Jitsu. (Should have been clear when I said he was my lynch target) | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On February 22 2012 16:42 VisceraEyes wrote: That was dangerously close to role-fishing syllo - the existance of one town-tracker doesn't preclude a second town-tracker. Am I missing something? You are right, that is the possible weak point in the plan. I do not think that it is likely that there are two town aligned trackers, however. It's a setup with only 18 players and knowing palmar/sandroba, I don't think they would have opted to include two identical and relatively uninteresting blue roles. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On February 22 2012 16:46 Dirkzor wrote: I find it highly unlikely that RedFF is scum. When reading through the thread I had the feeling that the wagon was forming way to fast (just before VE/BH mentioned it in the thread). At the same time we can't just keep RedFF around because he claimed a blue role. Might be an idea to keep alive until day 2 so people with nightactions can do whatever they think with him (vig or dt maybe?) WBG apparently wants to de-friend everyone in the game and is doing a good job so far. Blazinghand is being to quite this game and his post are much shorter then they usually are. I know he have wanted to post less then he did his first games but his post usually don't lack this much substance. I would say BH is a good lynch candidate. I haven't read his filter in detail but I will later. Also he haven't used thw word "hustle" at all this game - maybe he is the one doing the hustling? And yes I still think chaoser is a bit scummy, Jitsu. (Should have been clear when I said he was my lynch target) You are not helping yourself here by stating that you think it's highly unlikely that redff is scum and then propose vigging a blue role. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On February 22 2012 16:33 syllogism wrote: It's not without a question; I've a quite a few town reads and out of the remaining people BC has looked worst, but despite him personally likely not being around to convince me, I will look into others today. Also, I think that if there is a scum tracker, there is likely a town tracker as well and thus if there is another tracker out there, it might be worthwhile to counter claim redff at some point today. Tracker is a useful role, but not essential and certainly worth outing if it almost guarantees a scum lynch on day 1. Since I believe redff really is a tracker rather than just scum fake claiming, no counter claim would be relatively strong evidence of him being a town aligned tracker. Tracker is also a role that isn't easy to use, so it makes sense to be present in this setup, considering that this is supposedly a challenging one. Redff while your outburst feels genuine, you should keep posting today. My issue is you never tackled the complexity that the claim itself brings into the game. He is just going to sit there and be confusing. He hasn't really done anything productive and has in fact looked scummy which multiple people have seen. I explained it a bit in an earlier post, this helps scum unilaterally if RedFF continues to live and dismissing him as being unlikely to do the claim himself ignores the fact that players can learn and that he also has 3 other team mates. Either A. RedFF is a tracker. Scum RB's him, we can never prove his alignment or that a RB actually exists (Even if most set ups do have RBers.) B. RedFF is scum and faked tracker. RedFF can claim RB while the mafia either does not have a RB, or does a RB + hit strategy to hide that RedFF is lying while still strategically using a roleblock. Me and GM employed this strategy in closed casket but for a different purpose, its fairly common. RedFF can claim to watch someone and see them do nothing, the only way to prove him lying is to have that player counterclaim that they indeed performed an action, thus outing a blue. Either way we have no way to prove RedFF's claim and he won't die until WE kill him because scum isn't going to do it for us when hes a walking pile of wifom. | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
On February 22 2012 16:47 syllogism wrote: You are right, that is the possible weak point in the plan. I do not think that it is likely that there are two town aligned trackers, however. It's a setup with only 18 players and knowing palmar/sandroba, I don't think they would have opted to include two identical and relatively uninteresting blue roles. Not even if said 'uninteresting blue roles' are hard to use? I've been a tracker before, it's not easy. Imagine also if the scum KP are person to person - increasing the difficulty for town, you'd have to similarly increase the difficulty for scum, and giving them KP in the form of player-to-player seems...well you'd probably know better than me. Does that seem likely? | ||
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Dirkzor
Denmark1944 Posts
I just think that lynching him will provide next to nothing going forward so I would rather lynch someone else.. | ||
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