EPTWill someone who knows the roles please PM me? I PM'd Ver but I'm waaaay to impatient
Responsibility Mafia! - Page 62
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6782 Posts
Will someone who knows the roles please PM me? I PM'd Ver but I'm waaaay to impatient | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
damn let me think. ##Unvote | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On January 06 2012 15:04 bumatlarge wrote: Sorry, Kita. I actually shot at RoL last night, because if he was scum I think he might have not roleblocked me. Anyway, I don't think he can be a roleblocker and still have pulled off that BC shot without being a scumvig. Since meapak is dead it makes kita's "hit" on syllo look pretty bad. ##Vote: Kitaman27 I haven't been keeping track of how many scum I've killed kita, and neither has RoL. Basically if RoL is mafia, this is gonna be Insane Mafia 2 all over again. Oh well. Commence hammer Ver. This just made my life easier. Why did you hit me lol? | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 06 2012 15:30 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: If you really want to talk about this more bum I suppose we can, but I don't feel like rehashing every point that's been made against kita, its redundant. You were all for killing him a page ago. A town response to me posting all my notes from the entire game would be something along the lines of "oh crap, could bum be scum afterall?", instead you know that I'm probably not willing to lynch bum, so you focus on convincing him that I need to be killed without even mentioning them. You're scum RoL. I'll try to post my final analysis first thing tomorrow morning. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
On January 06 2012 15:25 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: This just made my life easier. Why did you hit me lol? I was curious to see if you as scum would risk not roleblocking me after saying kita was scum. I have also tried to hit chezinu for being bad mannered about ditching the game, but meapak had subbed in and Ver didn't accept it. I'm kinda tired, and I don't think I can read this thread again. So whatever. Basically, this is the major hiccup in RoL being scum. GGQ was choked with his own necktie. BloodyC0bbler had a tie stuffed down his throat. chaoser had his tie tied to the back of a car and was run through town. Mr. Wiggles was shot in the face. Foolishness died from lack of sleep while hallucinating French poetry. wherebugsgo was defenestrated. prphlz summed it up pretty well. On December 28 2011 15:49 prplhz wrote: Today's hits were: wherebugsgo by me (this is the first time I shoot scum so bear with me if I am being a little giddy) If scum had three hits yesterday they have around that today too, I seriously doubt that they killed 5 people though, 4 scum can't kill 5 people which means that somebody on this list was shot by town. I'm going to guess that scum shot 3 or maybe 4 people people if they have any additional KP. Foolishness I conjecture was shot by scum because of what he did to wherebugsgo. chaoser was pretty much confirmed town after having killed Palmar so scum shot him too. This leaves three people unaccounted for. BloodyC0bbler was being very inactive and a lot of people found him suspicious so I doubt that he was shot by scum. This leaves just GGQ or Mr. Wiggles as the last scum hits. I had town reads on both of these guys so I haven't a clue. Maybe some more vigs will claim today or whatever, maybe mafia actually just have this much KP. He also accuses RoL in that same post, but I'm interested in the hits. Mafia would have to have some real manpower to pull off these hits AND BC. RoL was claiming the BC hit forever. I know for a fact the last mafia is a roleblocker. Was RoL's positioning really such that they would have their roleblocker claim the hit that another mafia made? It doesn't fit right with me. Though I'm still boggling over the GM > BC, then Fool > L. Both survived. The fuck. No one has come up with a better explanation then roleblocks. RoL has been a tricky bastard. I'm just going to change my mind and run with this kita. Kita has been no-nonsense this entire game, and more then three times have I gone "He's most assuredly town". So I'm gonna go with my instinct rather then what the last 4 people have said, and lynch RoL. Maybe I wouldn't have if RoL wasn't all over the place. Kita has been really consistent, and with something this close, I'm going to side with the person I feel proved themself. Screw his overlap with meapak anyway, no where in my PM does it give me any information as to what happens when that happens. Also pulling out all of that useless information helped kita. I can't really say it hasn't heavily influenced this. Oh fucking well lol. ##Vote RebirthofLegend | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
 Gonna become a professional tic-tac-toe player after this stuff. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
##Vote RebirthofLegend | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
From just memory you can remember L trying to kill me the day he got lynched, I never really put any posts into why he was scum, I just ran with the analysis that was done on top of my already existing suspicions of L and lynched him. I gained no credit for that lynch. But seriously, think about the BC kill. I explained all my reasoning behind it and why I did everything. No one counter claimed my vig hit. For me to be scum, that night there would have to be 4 mafia KP, or other unclaimed vig hits. The much simpler explanation is 3 hits and my vigi hit. If we assume any other scenario it assumes mafia taking a huge risk by trying to call a hit they didn't perform or hoping they killed one of the people who performed a hit thus preventing a counter claim. At the end of the day I am most likely a town due to that scenario. But if you would like to elaborate where I am all over the place by all means. But if you want to stay with instinct, fine, lose the game on your own terms. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On January 06 2012 15:42 kitaman27 wrote: A town response to me posting all my notes from the entire game would be something along the lines of "oh crap, could bum be scum afterall?", instead you know that I'm probably not willing to lynch bum, so you focus on convincing him that I need to be killed without even mentioning them. You're scum RoL. I'll try to post my final analysis first thing tomorrow morning. It's called I am tired as shit, and I have already read every post from you, bum, meapak/chez, and your entire scum team twice. You really think one post by you (which I did read) is going to somehow contradict all that information? Bum's claim also makes more sense and further implicates you today. but hey, let me one up you. This is from closed casket mafia. Chezinu- Said he was going to try, early on posting random shit. Impossible read. Attacks Amber's post, leaning town Radfield- too much emphasis on lurkers, and very wordy posts, although might just be his style of posting if I remember right. He just writes wordy looking at his BC defense against accusations. Kurumi- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235762¤tpage=9#179 Reversed Ace's words in an interesting way. Ace didn't say 2KP mafia would be too strong, but used the no flip to justify why mafia were so weak. Kind of odd. Spams and contributes nothing of actual value. Votes for fishball. Amber[LighT]- Page 10 posted the dumbest shit I have ever read. Reading red. BC- Actually trying this game. I agree with his thoughts on radfield posting unnecessary shit, but at the same time I believe radfield just writes in a very wordy way. Protown read for effort, but he might just like the challenge in this game. ilj- echoes. ECHOES MOAR. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235762¤tpage=14#266 KNOWINGLY ECHOES ARGHHHH http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235762¤tpage=15#286 First actual thought. Chaoser/VisceraEyes- Sucks, bitch puts me at tier 2. Psuedo contributions but gets subbed out. Viscera? Fishball- The boss negro. Deconduo- Aggressive, not his typical mafia behavior, generally tries to coast. Wants to kill fishball who he thinks is green? Que? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=235762¤tpage=16#307 Deconduo is in the gray, I think he is honestly just playing like shit. Caller- POST SOMETHING RELEVENT, I HATE YOU. Chezinu .5 Palmar- Wants to carpet bomb the game with kills, I like it. First post of Radfield/Kurumi. I agree with the reads more or less. Scamp- Not as active as I would like, late game bloomer. Doesn't appear too scummy. LSB- Posting late about Deconduo/Fishball and posting dumb shit. Sandroba- Posting nothing, supports LSB? Odd. Actually defends himself fairly well to fishballs accusations. Going in the gray area. Fuck man, I am so town now. + Show Spoiler + I was scum in this game, I kept it as something to post in case of emergency since its counter intuitive for mafia to need to keep a reads list, but keeping this list also allowed me to keep track of players I wanted to kill. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 07 2012 00:35 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: I was scum in this game, I kept it as something to post in case of emergency since its counter intuitive for mafia to need to keep a reads list, but keeping this list also allowed me to keep track of players I wanted to kill. lol how is that relevant? That is just a bunch of reads you posted midway through day one in some random game you were scum. o.O On January 06 2012 15:43 bumatlarge wrote: He also accuses RoL in that same post, but I'm interested in the hits. Mafia would have to have some real manpower to pull off these hits AND BC. RoL was claiming the BC hit forever. I know for a fact the last mafia is a roleblocker. Was RoL's positioning really such that they would have their roleblocker claim the hit that another mafia made? It doesn't fit right with me. Three mafia kp + a failed suicide vig seems like the most logical explanation to me. Three kp seems somewhat high for a game with only 4+1 scum, but considering town has 15kp + the daily lynch, they certainly needed a way to keep up. There were also three unaccounted for kps on night one. On January 06 2012 15:43 bumatlarge wrote: Though I'm still boggling over the GM > BC, then Fool > L. Both survived. The fuck. No one has come up with a better explanation then roleblocks. We still have no idea what the roles of bugs, L, and syllo were. In a setup where all 15 town have a kp, from a balancing perspective, a scum medic really seems likely. We already know L somehow survived Foolishness's hit and I think it is likely that is how RoL survived the GM hit. By far the weirdest thing in the thread is L's insistence that GM lied about his shot. It makes absolutely no sense considering GM would have been able to announce his true shot when the scum team would be unable to change their actions. I think his true motives must have been to distract the thread from questioning how RoL would have survived the hits. RoL mentions three different times how GM's shot on him confirms him as town. He argues that GM's role was different than LSB's and that GM wouldn't kill his target if they were town. This also doesn't make sense, since GM wouldn't leave out details of his role after counter-claiming LSB, knowing that he would likely die that night. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
It makes sense, stop trying to misconstrue established facts. Secondly, that isn't a post from a game. Its from a word document I have just had on my computer, those reads and clues were NEVER posted. I was showing BumAtLarge that just because you had a wall of shit to post doesn't mean you have said anything of substance nor does it confirm you as town. L Surviving foolishnesses hit was on another night with no claimed roleblock, I believe the mafia roleblocked and hit foolishness because they thought he was going to kill WBG, if you read his posts prior to his death he is hitting on like 2-3 mafia the whole time. Foolishness was a serious threat to get one of you lynched and the mafia knew he was probably a vig and was saying WBG should die you chose to RB + Hit him. This is why L didn't die and didn't claim a hit. It was because he was never hit. My argument about how GM's role must of worked was to explain how we could somehow have a RB and a failed hit on me. At that time where Chezinu was being a douche townie that is the information I had to work with. Stop saying that infers I am mafia for that since it was the only explanation I could come up with with the given information. Chezinu lied and fucked us up that day. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
Bum, ask yourself. What makes more sense to explain those two nights of actions? Kita's "Well see there was a suicide vig that night which accounts for extra KP, and then a mafia medic that night to explain L not dying, and lets ignore RB placement because thats unimportant to my scenario" Or mine "Both scenario's can be perfectly explained by retrospective information as an interaction between roleblocking targets" This means N1, GM was RBed to set up an ez day 2 lynch, but BC cleared that up with a hit. N3 Foolishness was RBed because he was a threat to the mafia and expressed a desire to kill bugs, so he was RB + Hit, which explains everything perfectly. Occam's Razer, Kita is being silly. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 07 2012 02:01 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Kita, we now know as fact that Chezinu was never roleblocked, which means there was a roleblock and chances are it was mafia RBing Gmarshal to set him up for the next days lynch when he failed to follow through on his promise to kill someone. They didn't count on BloodyC0bbler killing Gmarshal instead. This explains where that roleblock went and why I didn't die and has been realized as a possibility since Meapak said Chezinu wasn't really roleblocked. Now we KNOW Chezinu is town and we can infer that the roleblock was actually on GM the same time BC hit him, hence why I am still alive and GM is dead. These are your own words RoL. This post has nothing to do with chezinu claiming roleblock. You don't even reference it: On December 23 2011 15:16 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: GM Couldn't of been roleblocked because then he wouldn't of been dead. So if he faked his hit to mislead mafia then changed it last minute to try to kill me and he was roleblocked then he wouldn't of killed himself, which means the mafia would of had to RB + hit him, which means there would be 4 hits unaccounted for, which is bad and probably not possible since we know someone claimed killing palmar, that would leave 4 other hits in mafia hands. More likely, the mafia was going to let GM kill himself/whoever else since it wasn't them, and as a result GM hit me and killed himself because I am town aligned. This would leave 3 hits unaccounted which could be an SK kill and 2 mafia, or just mafia kills. Much more reasonable. Either way, we can be certain that GM was NOT roleblocked, otherwise it leaves an absurd amount of KP unaccounted for, so he must of killed himself. Any other explanation would be elaborate as shit and confusing therefore, we defer to Occam's and we have our answer. Funny how you seem to use Occam's Razor to support whatever scenario is convenient at the time. There are 15 town kp in this game. Occam's Razer, mafia has a medic. Ver gave us a medic in Personality when there were only like 3-4 vigs. Both your explanation and my explanation both leave Wiggles/GGQ mysteriously dead. Don't discredit mine, just because I can't prove there was a suicide vig. That part is irrelevant to both our arguments. As for that closed casket post, page 19, you posted it on day one after updating it. Your partly finished analysis has no impact on my alignment. Surviving the day one hit, that isn't even the only reasoning against you. All game long, you've only been posting when it benefits you. You announce your scum candidate is bum at lylo and that his filter supports your case. After realizing that you're never going to be able to get 3 votes to lynch him, you instantly drop it and move on to me. You say you didn't read the whole L lynch in context, yet your original reasoning for thinking I was town was the context of the L lynch! Then I look at Kitaman, he started the lynch on L, but that's not really the important part. Look at the mafias position going into that, it was a 5v3 situation and they needed one last mislynch, L was reaming into me hard trying to force my mislynch it doesn't REMOTELY look like he was setting himself up to get bussed, he was pushing for the end game right there. Instead Kita pushes his lynch and it gets flipped on L. I read him yesterday, but it would require an impeccable scum game from Kita for this read to be wrong and all the things he did be setting up the illusion of being town. There was a reason mafia absolutely had no push on day three. It is because both their members were up for lynch! L went into day three expecting to get you lynched and win out the game on day four and five. You were the most logical choice for a bus since you had that extra baggage from the GM hit. The problem? They were caught off guard when L got pushed instead. syllogism is the person whose posts hurt them the most: On December 29 2011 07:07 syllogism wrote: Very possible, but nothing in above is related to that. Why are you making these bad logical leaps in LYLO? On December 29 2011 19:20 syllogism wrote: Sheth: That's not "proof" at all, but I agree with L being the safest lynch today ##vote L Here he throws some suspicion on bum for bringing L up. He knows he can't flat out deny that L is scum, but he doesn't want L lynched or else he would actually post reasoning, rather than saying "its very possible". Even up until the moment that he has to agree to vote L, syllo still shows signs of frustration and comes out looking awful. If me and L had planned to bus L ahead of time, why in the world is syllo not involved? His indifference to the lynch is one of the main reasons which led me to shoot him. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
My point was having a list of analysis done doesn't prove you are town just because you could copy a spreadsheet. When I came to a conclusion on you/bum I didn't read over the whole lynch, just your posts pertaining to it, on that note, I may have misread the lynch. I knew even since then, that the true conclusion and final answer would come after reading all the mafia filters in conjunction with yours. That is now what I did, Meapak had me reconsider my case on you and Bum and now I believe you are scum. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
Kitaman Town: -Very active, zero fear of posting. -I've nearly agreed with everything he has said. -Dat list, he's either super town, or hes mafia and he wants to win this REALLY badly Scum -Claiming hit after it happens, and meapak the townie has claimed it. -Likes to take credit. -Has kita ever considered me as scum? -The syllo thing looks pretty solid, but it would have been much better if it was included in your list, or if you had posted that reason immediately after you shot him. It looks like you just found out that link. Are you just saying that to show how messed up the scum teams position was during day 3? Explain your reasoning for hitting syllo. I'd like a little more then the below post. On December 31 2011 14:25 kitaman27 wrote: Look through his filter. He was completely useless the entire game, never bringing up a case against a single player. Him randomly coming out and positioning himself for a mislynch at LYLO was the tipping point. I was considering shooting you, but you never set off my trigger. RoL Town -I seriously doubt he wasn't the reason for BC dying. The remaining scum is a roleblocker. Seems rather convoluted. -Day 3 seems extrordinarily bad on mafia's part if RoL is scum. They seriously couldn't bus properly at lylo? L and RoL would have thought this out better I feel. -His reads the last few days have been all over the place, which sounds like someone I know! Scum -GM getting roleblocked after trying to hit RoL makes RoL look really bad, andday 3 the scum wasted no time in selling out their member in lylo. Perhaps that is WIFOM, but it seems like there was no drawbacks. L looked like he was trying to get back in the thread with this rather then just going for the win. -My imagination. In a set-up where every townie is a vig, balancing for mafia seems like it would rely on a lot of power. Nearly any sum of powers you can throw together don't benefit RoL. I would find it very hard to believe that all scum has is a team roleblock and a list of all the ways they can be killed. I think there is more to it. One scum medic makes RoL almost certain scum for me. Scum vigis explain BC perfectly. Multiple roleblocks are probably his best out, because the GM thing looks like a false trail. For both of you, explain why I am not scum. You both have thoroughly accepted this, and I am pretty neurotic about people assuming I'm town. One of you knows it, and the other has guessed it. RoL has looked into why I could be scum, and kita just seems like he can't argue I am scum, so he doesn't bother. | ||
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kitaman27
United States9244 Posts
On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote: -Claiming hit after it happens, and meapak the townie has claimed it. That simply comes down to me not being around for the deadline. I was at the movies and had to drop a friend off and I got stuck talking to his Mom -_- I could have brought a case against him earlier, but that could have caused me to have gotten roleblocked and I thought I would be back in time anyways. When Meapak questioned me about the hit, I confirmed that vig hits can overlap. This was supported by Sheth, who also stated vig hits weren't refunded. On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote: -Likes to take credit. Not quite sure what to say about this one. I took credit on the syllo hit because I shot him. For the L lynch, I think its the strongest evidence that points to me being town. On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote: -Has kita ever considered me as scum? Like I mentioned before, the main thing that bugged me was that you were buddying up with chez and myself. As mentioned in my notes, here were the things that stood out to me, but I felt there was a much stronger case against RoL for the reasons I've mentioned. bum (good manner vig) -responsibility points??? -soft defends chez, mason? -unvotes hydra, seems unconfident -claims trigger/blue -supports GM's claim over LSB's, doesn't want to let both shoot -Wishy-washy analysis of wiggles, no real conclusion -only person around before lynch -timing of role claim is weird On January 06 2012 15:13 kitaman27 wrote: If you're the scum, please just let me know so we can save everyone some time. I'd be willing to hammer myself if that were the case. Otherwise, let me write up my final case tomorrow. I even tried to get you to claim scum thinking the game was over, just in case RoL wasn't actually scum (a long shot I admit). There was no way I would hammer myself. On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote: -The syllo thing looks pretty solid, but it would have been much better if it was included in your list, or if you had posted that reason immediately after you shot him. It looks like you just found out that link. Are you just saying that to show how messed up the scum teams position was during day 3? Explain your reasoning for hitting syllo. I'd like a little more then the below post. I didn't shoot night one or two because we still hadn't lynched a scum and there were a limited amount of people who had actually set off my trigger. I could have shot you for making up the responsibility points or maybe curu for the way he handled the lsb lynch, but it was too early in the game. syllo wasn't on my night two list, because all four of my scum suspects were dead or confirmed town by the time I shot on night three. When we finally lynched L, I made my shot based on the outcome of the day. Sheth and syllo were the two people who came out looking the worst. Sheth had made an analysis against myself, voted RoL and posted as the last vote. Syllo seemed reluctant to push an L lynch and stated that he was the safest lynch only after the town had committed to lynching him. After the day ended, sheth asks syllo his opinion of me and he says was leaning scum based on an earlier read. This was the first time all game he had even mentioned my name, yet alone having a scum read on me. It was still lylo from scum's point of view and he was setting himself up for a mislynch. When I looked back at both players filters, neither made me think they were protown at all. I likely would have shot Sheth if I could find a good case that he was lying. He mentioned that he was sick and taking sleeping pills, yet was actively posting in election mafia and streaming for hours, but I'm not sure if Ver would have accepted that, so instead I shot syllo for the reasons above. On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote: -I seriously doubt he wasn't the reason for BC dying. The remaining scum is a roleblocker. Seems rather convoluted. RoL causing BC's death doesn't mean he is town, he could have simply claimed one of the mafia kps as his own shot. On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote: -Day 3 seems extrordinarily bad on mafia's part if RoL is scum. They seriously couldn't bus properly at lylo? L and RoL would have thought this out better I feel. Day three looks even worse on the mafia's part if I'm scum. L gets lynched and syllo looks awful and gets shot. Hardly sets them up well for endgame. On January 07 2012 04:00 bumatlarge wrote: For both of you, explain why I am not scum. You both have thoroughly accepted this, and I am pretty neurotic about people assuming I'm town. One of you knows it, and the other has guessed it. RoL has looked into why I could be scum, and kita just seems like he can't argue I am scum, so he doesn't bother. At this point, I think you're town because if you weren't you would have refused to move your vote off me last night. If I'm wrong, props to you. The reason I didn't push you on day five was that you openly shared your opinions, were the only other person around at the deadline on day two, which showed you actually cared about who town lynched, and that L flip-flopped his opinion on you so quickly after you accuse him on day three. | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
##Unvote ##Vote: Kitaman27 I'm willing to end the day early now, Ver. Not changing my mind. That is my final answer. | ||
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