I agree with the huge importance of the casters when games are going mainstream.
The closest thing to StarCraft being on mainstream TV we have had in Sweden was when Aftonbladet had their coverage of the Dream Hack tournament. This was not on TV but at least streamed on a major mainstream online news site with a large audience.
The problem, however, was the Swedish casters. They were not knowledgeable enough and tried to use a lot of "cool words" that they did not fully comprehend themselves. Things like that can really kill the interest of potential new gamers or just general interest in the game. This discourages the audience that already loves the game since they feel that the casters ruin the experience with their lack of insight and it scares of those new to the game since the game becomes hard to comprehend. Also, camera control / obs. Is extremely important. One can easily see when inexperienced people cast since they fail to show a lot of the main events or just move the screen too much. In short; It is difficult to be a good caster, and even more so when casting to people that does not have a lot of prior knowledge.
Not sure if my post added too much, just wanted to stress the importance of the OP. The example with Aftonbladet I think shows that one should bring someone from the community in to do the casting and not try to re-cycle LoL casters or Counter Strike casters just because they have some experience in similar fields.
On October 18 2011 15:54 oZe wrote: We have to sell out, LOL. Can you sell out more than GSL? They have pepsi as a sponsor and in every single game there is like a one minute long YOU MUST DRINK PEPSI monologue.
All gamers drink coke, all computer people drink coke & I've never even come across a regular human who drinks pepsi for any other reason than "they don't have coke?, I'll take a pepsi".
If they had naked girls having sex in between games it would have been a bigger sell out, but we're getting there. They already have kpop girls posing with players or both girls(sc1).
Maybe in the future they will advertise adult diapers and require players to get oiled up before games, but until then no more selling out possible....
SO much wrong with this post.
Not all gamers drink coke. Most gamers will drink whatever they damn feel like. I know way back when that a majority of gamers were drinking mt.dew because of the relatively high caffine/low cost shit. I know many people who drink Pepsi instead of coke because it has a better taste and also is slightly cheaper. Coke is Over priced and nasty as shit!
Are Kpop singers really pimping theirselves out? No, its how Korea advertises shit. They hire the Kpop bands because that draws people in. Compare the GSL finals attendance rate from the open season to when they introduced Kpop groups and they increase, purely because theres a pull factor. Same as anywhere and any group. Hell, you stick machine head at a Lawn Bowls event and I'll fucking show up. Has nothing to do with Sex appeal, just that the male audience in Korea (between the ages of 14-40) for Sc1 ALL listen to Kpop Girl groups, therefore they are a pull.
And its not selling out to mention your sponsors....the reason they sponsor a tournament is that you PROMOTE their goods. I mean a sport which is new will always pay hommage to the sponsors for making it happen. Even in established sports, they throw the sponsors in oyur face at every moment. My teams soccer ground, we have sporting bet sponsor us and before each game they give you the odds and deals on betting for/against the team (yes they have vendors inside the stadium). Its just something you HAVE to do when someone sponsors you.
Selling out in Starcraft would be units changing their sayings to 'drink Pepsi' or a creep spawning a huge Gskill advert....as it is we're in the 'we appreciate muchly your interest in our tiny sport'.
As for the Op, commercial breaks are definintely available in a series....between games run commercials, where the key presses are we could have a running commercial....The adverts for 'nuke noodles' could be changed to sponsorships, Adverts could appear in the background as much as anything else.....and would affect games at all!
i don´t agree with this, to succes on TV you need to cut a lot of things that makes SC2 interesting, and why hide someone like day9 why deny how the community of gamers looks like, he says it a lot he´s not ashame of being who he is, neither do we : /
Just forget about SC2 ever becoming mainstream in the western world. The social stigma on gaming is still quite big, but that might not even be the big problem
The biggest problem is that Starcraft is a very abstract game. Nothing makes intuitive sense. If you don't know the intricacies of the ruleset, nothing makes any sense. This is what sets it apart from most normal sports. You don't need to know shit about fighting to start watching MMA and have a decent idea about what is going on, since punching, kicks and chokeholds make a lot of intuitive sense. Even a more complex game like American Football. I never watch outside the superbowl and I don't know jack shit about the game or even the exact rules. But I can still enjoy a big guy slamming a somewhat smaller guy into the ground, or the smaller guy using his speed to avoid the big guy. These things can help a casual viewer to immidiately get some enjoyment out of it, so he might stick around and learn the more complex aspects of the sport.
SC doesn't have that mechanism. Watching Marauders chew through Stalkers looks really random, unless you have a decent understanding of the units stats and overall role in the game. Because of this, a strong niche-following is the best SC can probably hope for, no matter how much selling out you do.
Besides, the demographic you want to aim for is one of the most fickle there is. They might jump on the bandwagon for a bit, but will jump ship whenever the next big thing comes along.
tl;dr you don't believe in SC2 as a valid product as it is. your post is honestly pretty insulting to a lot of people unintentionally because you pretend to have knowledge of broadcasting and you don't, and you pretend to know what makes good TV and you don't. you make it seem like everyone who watches TV is some semi-retarded collar popped douche bag who wouldn't enjoy watching the game for more than 5 minutes, so you have to distract them with a bunch of nonsense so they keep watching. reality check: they will change the channel anyway if that's your plan.
the idea behind TV is not to 'cater' to anyone hoping you get it right. not with a proven interest like SC2. what you do is you take what people like about SC2, and you make it bigger and better in front of more people. if it doesn't work then it just doesn't work. sorry. if starcraft taught me anything it's that being cool is a matter of perception, not culture. if you honestly believe that what you are interested in is great, and if you can communicate that properly, the average person will listen and be able to see what you see. the fact that you are against someone like artosis, who loves starcraft more than anyone, and can communicate it better than anyone, to tell the world what starcraft is shows how naive you are imo.
it's amazing to me that you can even mention the success of poker while clearly having no realization that poker never had to pretend to be something it wasn't on TV, and poker never became popular because the people behind it sold out and tried to pander to half-interested channel flippers.
First off, excellent post really impressive lots of work has gone into this well done
Secondly, i agree with almost everything you right. To do this properly it needs alot of work, it needs a Day[9] Incontrol SirScoots people to be in charge of it, others like them to help and to work together.
Thirdly, like everyone has said, Artosis and Tasteless are more than capable to draw in viewers to ANY show and are THE BEST we have. Also i think maybe you could throw all 3 of them intogether and have a 3 cast machine like in Korea, or maybe have Day[9] as the interviewer/back stage area guy hanging out with the pro's and talking to people. Tastosis is the reason i watch ALL of GSL (what they cast) because they are so entertaining and have such chemistry between them, its great fun and would be classic TV.
Lastly, you do need the Anna and Seltzer people as part of the announcing or something but fitting them in over someone like Day[9] etc might anger US as a community rather than the people that are being targeted audience wise.
You really think Sc2 can just change its casters/personalities around, slap on a video of their hands, and be successful to the 18-24 crowd? Come on now. When your average joe is flicking through channels, if he doesn't understand the shapes and colors on the screen, how does it matter who is talking/who is presenting? So first step is to get Sc2 mainstream so that people will understand what is going on.
we need a hollywood blockbuster hit about e-sports. Kid who goes from rag to riches to bonjwa, who everyone can relate to (Rocky style). That would get it mainstream, and people would actually know what those shapes and colors are on the screen.
But i don't a agree about selling out and going full-on noob friendly. Players who watch won't like super basic analysis and non-players won't understand anyway. I remember watching SC before playing it, although i am long time gamer it wasn't very fun for me.
Maybe before every TV show there could be 5-10min intro video show 3 races some army compositions etc. Nonplayers can watch and try to understand somthing and player can go get snack while it is on.
I mean in other sports the caster don't explain what every single line on the field means. They cast the game for people who know it. You can pick it up as you watch. And it is very easy to go and try SC2 for yourself. You can get what SC2 is all about after just few practise games, unless you it is the first videogame you ever see. Blizzard has the starter edition after all for a reason.
I do not agree with most of what you said. TV is a dying media as many before me has pointed out. Internet is the new entertainment channel, Barcraft is the way it'll go mainstream. What we have now is great, entertainment for very diverse interests. Those who want the hardcore analysis can get that, those who want lighthearted fun can find that, and the things inbetween.
We have a great and diverse range of characters, this is by far a greater attraction than ONE guy/gal who should carry the success of the industry on his/her shoulders. The ones people like will flourish, while the others will sink, this is how the people get to the loved positions they are now. How do you think Day[9] got to the position he is today? Was he a just a random guy with charisma who got injected into it? No, through hard work, dedication, personality he got where he is today. MLG tried to cater to the "frat community" with their phony television hosts. It sucked so incredibly bad. Day[9], DjWheat, Husky, Tastosis, Incontrol, JP etc got where they are because people like them and enjoy their work, and this is how it should continue. The character gallery is fantastic, the storylines are amazing, we have what we need to succeed already. Look at how much the industry already have expanded. We're already heading in a very positive direction. And TV will be nothing but a distraction. In a few years time TV will beg for SC2 to be on TV. But, TV is dying, let's not go down with a sinking ship.
In the end it comes down to this, I will not support something I do not enjoy. If I'm not entertained by e-Sports, then screw e-Sports. And I will certainly not be entertained by what you are proposing.
Like many have said TV is not relevant anymore, DjWheat says it and i believe it.
How much TV do you guys see? not much I bet, i'm usually in my PC with the TV on but my movies and TV series I see on my PC and I can't see something on TV because I don't want to commit to a shedulle, I want so see when I feel like it and that can only happen in internet!
Internet > TV and lets face it SC2 is not for everyone, i've shown this game to all my friends or they see me play it/ watch it at home and i allways try and explain what it is and only 1 in 10 will get interested but it's just because he sees shit blow up hehe! They resort to playing PES while i nerd away in SC2.. This is for us the gamers and that's it..
You made some great points about publicity. I mean that is where the money comes from. You seems also quite knowleageable about football, and you seem to want the starcraft community to look like the football one.
I am furiously against that. The football community is one of the worst ever. There are a lot a bad sides in it. People taking it too much seriously, supporting a sport that they don't fully understand or even practice, and having absurd rivalry against team supporters for instance.
If you had looked the end of MLG, you would have seen that starcraft players and quite nice and kind people. They don't try to make a fortune out of the game, they just want the activity to be recognized enough to ensure that they could live by playing it, letting them to progress and master the game. It seems to be the only thing that drives them. They are friends and practice with rivals. I mean, how often do you athletes training with potential rivals ? I feel closer to sc stars like day9 and huk or MC, that I could ever be to football stars. This kindness and love toward the game and the will to master it is something that profoundly defines the community. And I would not like to see this trade off for some money. With great audience comes with great stupidity.
I'd like to see starcraft and esport develop in its own way, like it has always did and at the right speed, not trying to copy other models. The football model is not the only one. Even if its close, look at Rugby. The community seems far more interesting that the football one.
I mean, we don't want for everyone to see that we are not a nerdy bunch that stay on computer all day long, not connecting with anyone. We know that it's not what we do (even if its my job :p). I have the feeling that you want esport to become mainstream because you are having little trouble assuming your passion. Clealry, you want to show off iNcontrol for having a "real" life before starcraft. We have nothing to prove in this regard. Making it big the wrong way will not achieve that anyway. In Korea, parents does not want their child to try to be programmer too, even if it's a big part of their sport scene now.
We have to be more like day9, assume us and share our passion with integrity. And if it does not fit TV, scr*w it. The whole traditional TV model is probably going to change anyway.
In the end, as an esport fan with integrity, I am not willing to see games cut in half by commercials for the sole purpose of having more money, ruining my focus on a game. I'm not a big fan of artossis, but I am not willing to exclude him in anyway. He has dedicated his life to starcraft, and he is a part of the people that made the community like it is right now. I don't see the urge to make it mainstream anyway. I'm gradually showing the game and the community to friends who are now passionate about it too. The scene is growing (quite fast compared to Korea) just fine right now.
Like shell said, it's not a "sport" for everyone. You HAVE TO play it to appreciate it.
I understand what your point is here, and I wholeheartedly disagree with some of it. Bringing a completely dumbed down SC2 without any sort of analysis to TV would be a terrible move, and it's most likely not going to happen.
You say we need to appeal to the frat boys that would watch this while drinking. I say fuck that. If we do bring SC2 to television, it needs to be the real deal. Sure, just as Tyler pointed out on SotG (to those of you that haven't listen to the discussion about this on State of the Game, I think it's episode 51 or 52), pretty much all SC2 casts we see are dumbed down, which is natural because the majority of the audience are not pros. But what you suggest is to dumb it down beyond recognition, to make it absurdly bland. That's the biggest mistake you could possibly make. It needs to be the real deal.
I also think you greatly miss the mark on the casting (partly due to the last part of dumbing it down). In my opinion, Tastosis would be the best choice for this. You tell the audience that they gave up they're earlier lives and left pretty much everything behind to complete their dreams, and you get sympathy and respect. Also, (I guess this is mainly a preference but bear with me) Tastosis' passion shines through and really gets you going. Maybe they're not the loudest casters that shout that shit is happening constantly, that some people like, but when Artosis and Tasteless (especially Artosis) begin raising their voices shouting and go crazy, you know shit just got real. It's special because it's not often you hear Artosis go completely bananas. This is what I'm talking about: WARNING SPOILERS FOR GSL SEASON 6, I think
I like some of the points you bring up about APM and emotion (crowds cheering and so on) and a bit about the personalities (though your opinion that Anna needs to be sexed up and quit looking classy I totally disagree with).
My point is; If Starcraft 2 goes on television I want it to be the real deal and not some bastardised version, as I think that would actually hurt ESPORTS (I know you guys love reading those two words together). Get the people that know the scene to produce it. If people like it, they will continue watching. If they don't, fine, then they're not part of the audience we want for ESPORTS.
This is all mostly subjective, and I don't want to force my opinion on other people. f you agree with me, nice, and if you don't, that's fine as well. Have a nice day, everyone!
wait, what? did you just say artosis nerdness is a negative thing? that's why he's so funny, he actually has a lot of interesting things to say in a way not so many people can see, day9 is the best sc2 teacher EVER, everyone has to be in this thing, as much as they can, it probably will not last 1 month lol, so to start i think day9 probably can do it cause hes not living in korea.
Problem is that eSports will never really fit normal TV structure. Why so pessimist, You ask?
Well let's look at the core audience, even by OPs definition it's young people, ages up to 24-25 in majority. That's part of population that is already quite active on internet, be it through actually following games or just through social media like FB/twitter/etc. Why would those people want to watch it on TV, with possibly annoying commercials in middle of games (due to mentioned issue with scheduling), when they can watch it on internet, be it live or through VODs that they can pause and rewind whenever they feel like, not limited by the structure of traditional TV?
You know, every now and then some TV station in my country tries to set up a show/block about video games. Problem is barley anyone watches it. When you have any interest in gaming You are most likely getting your dose of news/info from the internet, in a more interactive environment. TV is one sided, works on limited time frames, you have to be at TV at given hour to watch the thing. Not many want/can be bothered to do so when there is just so much better alternative.
I don't even see TV as a goal for eSports in general, as traditional TV is starting to be a thing of the past. Over time more and more will switch over to internet. People already are more happy to use on-line services to watch movies they are interested in than wait for them to be aired on TV. Plenty of TV stations put most of their offer on the internet that you can watch whenever you feel like, without the constrains of TVs air time.
How often do You, personally, tune into TV for news or entertainment compared to using internet for that ? There is simply no real point in trying to waste resources on setting a TV broadcasts when there is still so much to do in terms of expanding on the internet, which not only has worldwide reach but is just so much easier for both organizers and viewers.
Unless you want to reach 40+ year old viewer groups there is no reason to do it on TV at this point.