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F$%^! lessons “Learned”, and i can't edit the title  O well epic fail...
Here are a few little flaws in WC3 that really should have been fixed a long time ago. I don't know that Blizzard will repeat the same mistakes but for those lucky few who DO get into the SCII beta please make sure stupid little items like this don't get missed. I know most people will be focused on balance, units and stuff but please try to "see the trees in the forest" if you know what I mean.
* Add an option in the menu to disable the god damn windows key! I really don't like the fact I have to edit my registry or use a 3rd party program to do this.
* Same thing goes for ALT-TAB ^
* Please add a menu where we can easily configure ALL hot keys to whatever we choose , something similar to Warkeys would be nice!
* Add am EASY way to squelch your opponent. When their name “IllIIlIIlIIlIIlllI” (L & i) it's a little difficult. A box you could quickly check in game sure would be nice.
* ALT-QQ!?!?! Hello!!! how many countless games have been thrown away on this little gem. Option to disable please...
Anything else I missed?
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10387 Posts
I think what you listed was the least of everyone's worries
I, for one, have never accidently Alt-qq'd, or Alt-tabbed for the matter
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I accidentally alt qq'd before when i use beastmaster =(
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I did it in WC3, when the Show Health Bar option was not implemented, but in StarCraft ...
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Meh. I've hit the windos key instead of control a few times when hotkeying, which pissed me off, but it wasn't game changing so I wouldn't not get SC2 because of features like disabling keys and stuff don't exist but it would be nice if they were changed.
/run-on sentence
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i hope the annoying chains from war3's interface don't make a return. they were nice to look at the first couple of times, but after that became annoying
plus not letting people watch replays on bnet was a mistake
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SC2 has the same alt functionality as War3, so disabling altQQ would be really nice (Q is obviously a great key to rebind something to).
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On March 13 2009 15:19 Ingenol wrote:
SC2 has the same alt functionality as War3, so disabling altQQ would be really nice (Q is obviously a great key to rebind something to).
is this for real? hold down alt to see health? not sure how i feel about this
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Yea, I hated Alt+Tab in WC3... would always be holding down Alt to see unit health and then try to tab through a control group to use an ability and get fucked and lose my hero or something....
I've never accidentally AltQQ but i'm sure it has happened.
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On March 13 2009 15:13 SoMuchBetter wrote:
plus not letting people watch replays on bnet was a mistake
This. The most retarted thing ever and if we can't watch replays on bnet for SC2 there will be hell to pay.
Other things include making an option to skip menu animations. SC was fast with no animation, but for some reason in war3 they put this slow sliding animation which means going from the main menu to joining a game takes so much longer than it should.
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Need to be able to manually alter what colors people appear as.
I'm colorblind
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On March 13 2009 16:01 -orb- wrote:
Need to be able to manually alter what colors people appear as.
I'm colorblind
shift + tab
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On March 13 2009 15:50 jigga wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 15:13 SoMuchBetter wrote:
plus not letting people watch replays on bnet was a mistake This. The most retarted thing ever and if we can't watch replays on bnet for SC2 there will be hell to pay. Other things include making an option to skip menu animations. SC was fast with no animation, but for some reason in war3 they put this slow sliding animation which means going from the main menu to joining a game takes so much longer than it should.
Yes! I hate the stupid animations on bnet. Such a fucking piss off.
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On March 13 2009 16:09 Rice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 16:01 -orb- wrote:
Need to be able to manually alter what colors people appear as.
I'm colorblind shift + tab
OH GREAT BECAUSE THE GREEN+RED IT CHANGES IT TO IS REALLY GREAT HUH?
Like 99.9% of the people that are color blind, I'M RED/GREEN color blind.
I want to be able to change it to like red/blue or yellow/blue etc
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I have never once ALT-QQ'd out of a game accidentally in the 11 years I have played StarCraft.
I have never ALT-tabbed or ALT-QQ'd out of a WC3 game either. As for the windows button, take it out of your keyboard. It serves no real purpose anyway.
How the hell do you even do that accidentally?
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windows key is useless
ctrl-escape does the same thing ffs
it was just put there to annoy gamers
IBM model m ftw!
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I believe this is why players had the ability to watch SC replays on Bnet and not WC3:
Watching replays with other players online was easy in SC1 because the map file was included in the replay file. Therefore, players without the map that the game was played on would still be able to watch the replay.
In Warcraft 3, map files were a lot larger, some over 4.5 mb. If the map file was included in the replay file, some player's replay folder would be massive.
It's very likely that SC2 map files will be a lot larger than WC3 map files.
Would you rather replays be 100kb or be 5mb but you're able to watch them on Bnet?
Blizzard believes the costs out weigh the benefits.
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On March 13 2009 16:51 SearingShadow wrote:
I believe this is why players had the ability to watch SC replays on Bnet and not WC3:
Watching replays with other players online was easy in SC1 because the map file was included in the replay file. Therefore, players without the map that the game was played on would still be able to watch the replay.
In Warcraft 3, map files were a lot larger, some over 4.5 mb. If the map file was included in the replay file, some player's replay folder would be massive.
It's very likely that SC2 map files will be a lot larger than WC3 map files.
Would you rather replays be 100kb or be 5mb but you're able to watch them on Bnet?
Blizzard believes the costs out weigh the benefits.
if you are watching a replay of any 1v1 game, the maps wont be over 500 kb (most would run about 200).
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On March 13 2009 16:18 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 16:09 Rice wrote:On March 13 2009 16:01 -orb- wrote:
Need to be able to manually alter what colors people appear as.
I'm colorblind shift + tab OH GREAT BECAUSE THE GREEN+RED IT CHANGES IT TO IS REALLY GREAT HUH? Like 99.9% of the people that are color blind, I'M RED/GREEN color blind. I want to be able to change it to like red/blue or yellow/blue etc
hahahahahaha colorblind rage ftw!
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On March 13 2009 16:24 rushz0rz wrote:
I have never once ALT-QQ'd out of a game accidentally in the 11 years I have played StarCraft.
I have never ALT-tabbed or ALT-QQ'd out of a WC3 game either. As for the windows button, take it out of your keyboard. It serves no real purpose anyway.
How the hell do you even do that accidentally?
I’ve only accidentally Alt-QQ a won game a handful of times but that’e enough. As Ingenol said, “Q” is in a good location. Pretty much anyone who has remapped their keys to the QWER,ASDF,ZXCV has probably accidentally ALT-QQ at least once.
I also don’t feel like prying out my windows key from my nice new Razer lycosa keyboard. Thou if I must I will find a way to take it apart and permanently disable the windows key. What’s crazy is I tried disabling the win key in the program that came with the keyboard, it didn’t work... So then I tried the regedit hack for vista, http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/77881-windows-hotkeys.html and even that didn’t work!GRRRRRR, thankfully warkeys/autokeys has an option to disable the left windows key.
Anyway how you have never ALT-QQ or ALT-tabbbed in 11 years is a mystery to me But I can only guess you don’t use custom keys and/or or you are mostly a mouse only player.
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On March 13 2009 17:06 esla_sol wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 16:51 SearingShadow wrote:
I believe this is why players had the ability to watch SC replays on Bnet and not WC3:
Watching replays with other players online was easy in SC1 because the map file was included in the replay file. Therefore, players without the map that the game was played on would still be able to watch the replay.
In Warcraft 3, map files were a lot larger, some over 4.5 mb. If the map file was included in the replay file, some player's replay folder would be massive.
It's very likely that SC2 map files will be a lot larger than WC3 map files.
Would you rather replays be 100kb or be 5mb but you're able to watch them on Bnet?
Blizzard believes the costs out weigh the benefits. if you are watching a replay of any 1v1 game, the maps wont be over 500 kb (most would run about 200).
This is true about standard Blizzard maps, but a lot of WC3 tournaments use Blizzard maps which have been edited to contain sponsors. Some even have custom loading screens. These things will increase the file size of a map by over 1 mb. And what about UMS maps? I am certain that there are going to be some very large custom made maps (> 8mb). With custom music, custom unit models, custom tilesets and a large playable area I wouldn't be surprised if some maps were over 15 mb.
The only way Blizzard would allow players to view replays on Bnet is if the map files were not included in the replay file. This may be difficult for Blizzard to do.
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with the alt for health bar thing i could definitely see alt qqing
that really needs to be taken out
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A simple solution would be being able to customize all your hotkeys.
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On March 13 2009 17:36 lowlypawn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 16:24 rushz0rz wrote:
I have never once ALT-QQ'd out of a game accidentally in the 11 years I have played StarCraft.
I have never ALT-tabbed or ALT-QQ'd out of a WC3 game either. As for the windows button, take it out of your keyboard. It serves no real purpose anyway.
How the hell do you even do that accidentally? I’ve only accidentally Alt-QQ a won game a handful of times but that’e enough. As Ingenol said, “Q” is in a good location. Pretty much anyone who has remapped their keys to the QWER,ASDF,ZXCV has probably accidentally ALT-QQ at least once. I also don’t feel like prying out my windows key from my nice new Razer lycosa keyboard. Thou if I must I will find a way to take it apart and permanently disable the windows key. What’s crazy is I tried disabling the win key in the program that came with the keyboard, it didn’t work... So then I tried the regedit hack for vista, http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/77881-windows-hotkeys.html and even that didn’t work!GRRRRRR, thankfully warkeys/autokeys has an option to disable the left windows key. Anyway how you have never ALT-QQ or ALT-tabbbed in 11 years is a mystery to me But I can only guess you don’t use custom keys and/or or you are mostly a mouse only player.
I have Q as move key and I use ALT a lot, never yet managed to ALT-QQ out, i use alt a lot. Tab is useful too never managed to alt tab out either. Window key is painfull sometimes though.
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On March 13 2009 17:48 IdrA wrote:
with the alt for health bar thing i could definitely see alt qqing
that really needs to be taken out
happens a lot in wc3 yeah. alt-tab as well, since you're checking unit hp and switching beteween heroes/unit blocks a lot.
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edit: wrong thread, nvm. mispost
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I hope it will be easier to target units that are behind buildings/trees. Due to the angle of perspective, it can be really tricky sometimes. For example acolytes "above" the gold mine or treasure drops from monster packs. It happend many times that I was forced to use the camera rotation keys, that's like page up/down or something, which feels very wierd, especially since you have to hold it down or the camera rotates back.
The alt-q-q and alt-tab issues have already been pointed out, I have felt those many times. Damn beast master.
Oh and about hotkeys in general (I think they did pretty well with this in wc3), make them easily accessable. Probes on "r", not "p" for example. I feel physically handicapped everytime i play protoss. Normally I'm terran and "s" is a very easy to press, no 15 cm hand movement needed.
Better yet, make all keys 100% customizable without having to edit text files and stuff/use 3rd party programs. It should be simple, kind of like in World of warcraft.
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On March 13 2009 21:17 Bob123 wrote:
I hope it will be easier to target units that are behind buildings/trees. Due to the angle of perspective, it can be really tricky sometimes. For example acolytes "above" the gold mine or treasure drops from monster packs. It happend many times that I was forced to use the camera rotation keys, that's like page up/down or something, which feels very wierd, especially since you have to hold it down or the camera rotates back.
The alt-q-q and alt-tab issues have already been pointed out, I have felt those many times. Damn beast master.
Oh and about hotkeys in general (I think they did pretty well with this in wc3), make them easily accessable. Probes on "r", not "p" for example. I feel physically handicapped everytime i play protoss. Normally I'm terran and "s" is a very easy to press, no 15 cm hand movement needed.
Better yet, make all keys 100% customizable without having to edit text files and stuff/use 3rd party programs. It should be simple, kind of like in World of warcraft.
Oooh, bringing WoW into this discussion was a mistake, prepare, for flame!
No j/k but I agree with most other things, but why are you comparing SC2 to WC3? Makes no sense.
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Wow. I hardly find anything of this to be a problem for me. Sorry.
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On March 13 2009 21:21 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 21:17 Bob123 wrote:
I hope it will be easier to target units that are behind buildings/trees. Due to the angle of perspective, it can be really tricky sometimes. For example acolytes "above" the gold mine or treasure drops from monster packs. It happend many times that I was forced to use the camera rotation keys, that's like page up/down or something, which feels very wierd, especially since you have to hold it down or the camera rotates back.
The alt-q-q and alt-tab issues have already been pointed out, I have felt those many times. Damn beast master.
Oh and about hotkeys in general (I think they did pretty well with this in wc3), make them easily accessable. Probes on "r", not "p" for example. I feel physically handicapped everytime i play protoss. Normally I'm terran and "s" is a very easy to press, no 15 cm hand movement needed.
Better yet, make all keys 100% customizable without having to edit text files and stuff/use 3rd party programs. It should be simple, kind of like in World of warcraft. Oooh, bringing WoW into this discussion was a mistake, prepare, for flame! No j/k but I agree with most other things, but why are you comparing SC2 to WC3? Makes no sense.
Because SCII interface will resemble WC3 more then any other game…
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What in the world is this Alt-QQ stuff about?
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is awesome32274 Posts
On March 13 2009 23:44 Biochemist wrote:
What in the world is this Alt-QQ stuff about?
alt Q Q is the combination of keys to surrender fast.
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Don't know if sc2 has the same annoying mouse scroll to change view like wc3, but seriously, give an option to disable that. Countless times have my finger accidentally grazed the middle scroll in a big battle in wc3 and the laggy camera view change f's up my micro.
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As one of the Beta Testers I'll try and get this implemented, though not to sure what real power we have
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On March 13 2009 15:02 lowlypawn wrote:F$%^! lessons “Learned”, and i can't edit the title O well epic fail... Here are a few little flaws in WC3 that really should have been fixed a long time ago. I don't know that Blizzard will repeat the same mistakes but for those lucky few who DO get into the SCII beta please make sure stupid little items like this don't get missed. I know most people will be focused on balance, units and stuff but please try to "see the trees in the forest" if you know what I mean. * Add an option in the menu to disable the god damn windows key! I really don't like the fact I have to edit my registry or use a 3rd party program to do this. * Same thing goes for ALT-TAB ^ * Please add a menu where we can easily configure ALL hot keys to whatever we choose , something similar to Warkeys would be nice! * Add am EASY way to squelch your opponent. When their name “IllIIlIIlIIlIIlllI” (L & i) it's a little difficult. A box you could quickly check in game sure would be nice. * ALT-QQ!?!?! Hello!!! how many countless games have been thrown away on this little gem. Option to disable please... Anything else I missed?
sorry, but i think ur definately wrong here....
disable win key is fine, but also disable alt+tab?
are you serious? how are you supposed to go to windows then. moreover its not very likey to accidently hit alt+tab lol......
changing hotkeys is BULLSHIT !
the squelch thing is ok
alt+qq....its useful......and its ur fault if you hit it by mistake....wtf usefulness>stupidity
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On March 13 2009 16:18 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 16:09 Rice wrote:On March 13 2009 16:01 -orb- wrote:
Need to be able to manually alter what colors people appear as.
I'm colorblind shift + tab OH GREAT BECAUSE THE GREEN+RED IT CHANGES IT TO IS REALLY GREAT HUH? Like 99.9% of the people that are color blind, I'M RED/GREEN color blind. I want to be able to change it to like red/blue or yellow/blue etc
Actually, among colorblindnesses, I thought red/green colorblindness was only a slight majority of all cases, because there's protanopia, which is a lack of red receptors... but anyways, I totally agree that you should be able to manually change the colors to whatever you want (and set those color preferences out of game, even). I also think that even if alt-QQ has never happened to you, you should be able to disable it if it happens to some people. I'm pretty sure any casual player would be extremely turned off by a game if they lost two games that they were winning to a stupid keyboard shortcut (especially since their hotkey control wouldn't be as refined as longtime players).
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On March 13 2009 21:21 Zoler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 21:17 Bob123 wrote:
I hope it will be easier to target units that are behind buildings/trees. Due to the angle of perspective, it can be really tricky sometimes. For example acolytes "above" the gold mine or treasure drops from monster packs. It happend many times that I was forced to use the camera rotation keys, that's like page up/down or something, which feels very wierd, especially since you have to hold it down or the camera rotates back.
The alt-q-q and alt-tab issues have already been pointed out, I have felt those many times. Damn beast master.
Oh and about hotkeys in general (I think they did pretty well with this in wc3), make them easily accessable. Probes on "r", not "p" for example. I feel physically handicapped everytime i play protoss. Normally I'm terran and "s" is a very easy to press, no 15 cm hand movement needed.
Better yet, make all keys 100% customizable without having to edit text files and stuff/use 3rd party programs. It should be simple, kind of like in World of warcraft. Oooh, bringing WoW into this discussion was a mistake, prepare, for flame! No j/k but I agree with most other things, but why are you comparing SC2 to WC3? Makes no sense.
Because some of these things were steps in the wrong direction, comming from starcraft 1. I'm not gonna say that wc3 was worse than starcraft in every single possible way. It wasn't. Flame me if you like. I think to show HP bars with the alt key (later automatic) in wc3 was not a bad idea. Unexpected problems arose though, such as accidental alt-q-q or alt-tab. The idea was good, but poorly implemented (or not thought-through enough).
The problems with targeting units behind buildings exist only because of the 3D enviroment, which will be carried on to sc2 from wc3. I think the game would be better in "semi-2D" like starcraft 1, but I understand that for the new audiance that is not acceptable. They do want to make a game that sells in large quantities, not just take over the minimal (compared to other games) Brood War fan base. It has to attract kids. I just hope they make the best of it, I don't want to feel obstructed by the camera view.
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On March 14 2009 01:36 MasterReY wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 15:02 lowlypawn wrote:F$%^! lessons “Learned”, and i can't edit the title O well epic fail... Here are a few little flaws in WC3 that really should have been fixed a long time ago. I don't know that Blizzard will repeat the same mistakes but for those lucky few who DO get into the SCII beta please make sure stupid little items like this don't get missed. I know most people will be focused on balance, units and stuff but please try to "see the trees in the forest" if you know what I mean. * Add an option in the menu to disable the god damn windows key! I really don't like the fact I have to edit my registry or use a 3rd party program to do this. * Same thing goes for ALT-TAB ^ * Please add a menu where we can easily configure ALL hot keys to whatever we choose , something similar to Warkeys would be nice! * Add am EASY way to squelch your opponent. When their name “IllIIlIIlIIlIIlllI” (L & i) it's a little difficult. A box you could quickly check in game sure would be nice. * ALT-QQ!?!?! Hello!!! how many countless games have been thrown away on this little gem. Option to disable please... Anything else I missed? sorry, but i think ur definately wrong here.... disable win key is fine, but also disable alt+tab? are you serious? how are you supposed to go to windows then. moreover its not very likey to accidently hit alt+tab lol...... changing hotkeys is BULLSHIT ! the squelch thing is ok alt+qq....its useful......and its ur fault if you hit it by mistake....wtf usefulness>stupidity
Uh what is your problem with choices?
He's not asking for them to disable it and leave it at that but he's asking for an option to freaking disable it if you want, I think that's more than fair.
Why is changing hotkeys bullshit? Do you have any clue how much more comfortable it would be for me to play protoss if I could move Pylon to Y from P? It's not even game breaking and again, it's a damn choice.
If you've ever played WC3 you'd be shocked at how easy it is to accidentally alt+qq a game away given how you pop up health bars.
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On March 13 2009 16:18 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 16:09 Rice wrote:On March 13 2009 16:01 -orb- wrote:
Need to be able to manually alter what colors people appear as.
I'm colorblind shift + tab OH GREAT BECAUSE THE GREEN+RED IT CHANGES IT TO IS REALLY GREAT HUH? Like 99.9% of the people that are color blind, I'M RED/GREEN color blind. I want to be able to change it to like red/blue or yellow/blue etc
yeah i realized this a few minutes after i made my post but i was already off of the computer and decided not to go back and change it
On March 13 2009 17:48 IdrA wrote:
with the alt for health bar thing i could definitely see alt qqing
that really needs to be taken out
in war3 a few patches ago they added an option to permanently display health bars, but its still a problem because people are so used to holding down alt the entire time they play. so you will habitually hold alt down with the option enabled and make the healthbars not show =/
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I agree with most of the suggestions, although I've never really had big problem with them.
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The problems with targeting units behind buildings exist only because of the 3D enviroment, which will be carried on to sc2 from wc3. I think the game would be better in "semi-2D" like starcraft 1, but I understand that for the new audiance that is not acceptable. They do want to make a game that sells in large quantities, not just take over the minimal (compared to other games) Brood War fan base. It has to attract kids. I just hope they make the best of it, I don't want to feel obstructed by the camera view.
Selective memory ftl. You seem to forget that terran constantly hide units behind their lifted buildings in sc1 making it impossible for the other player to target those units, 3d actually fixes this to a degree.
* Add an option in the menu to disable the god damn windows key! I really don't like the fact I have to edit my registry or use a 3rd party program to do this.
* Same thing goes for ALT-TAB ^
* Please add a menu where we can easily configure ALL hot keys to whatever we choose , something similar to Warkeys would be nice!
* Add am EASY way to squelch your opponent. When their name “IllIIlIIlIIlIIlllI” (L & i) it's a little difficult. A box you could quickly check in game sure would be nice.
* ALT-QQ!?!?! Hello!!! how many countless games have been thrown away on this little gem. Option to disable please...
1. I don't see a reason for this when you can just pry out the windows key if you have problems with hitting the key as the key is absolutely pointless if you don't use it.
2. If they don't have a permanent show health bar option i can agree for this.
3. Would be very nice.
4. Agreed, something like right click the player name to bring up a menu and squelch being in that menu.
5. I suggest the impossible is done and switch it to ALT-Q-Q-Q for quit exit even though i've never done it myself.
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im sorry i missed the "option to disable".
sorry OP
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On March 14 2009 05:52 ManWithCheese wrote:
Selected memory ftl. You seem to forget that terran constantly hide units behind their lifted buildings in sc1 making it impossible for the other player to target those units, 3d actually fixes this to a degree.
On March 14 2009 05:52 ManWithCheese wrote:
1. I don't see a reason for this when you can just pry out the windows key if you have problems with hitting the key as the key is absolutely pointless if you don't use it.
2. If they don't have a permanent show health bar option i can agree for this.
3. Would be very nice.
4. Agreed, something like right click the player name to bring up a menu and squelch being in that menu.
5. I suggest the impossible is done and switch it to ALT-Q-Q-Q for quit exit even though i've never done it myself.
I think there is a difference between the "player made" trick of hiding tanks/turrets under barracks, ebays and the 3D engine being anoying. "Sorry that chest was behind the trees from that angle, must rotate the screen 90 degrees to the right and zoom in max to take it".
1: Why should we have to physically violate our computers? I'm on a laptop and it's not that simple just to rip it out, even if i did on my previous desktop computer's keyboards. Maybe people use the windows key normally and therefor don't want to remove it. It's a small convenience thing, if you're so against this feature, simply don't use it.
5: I'm not sure if this was a joke or not, but it doesn't solve anything.
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On March 13 2009 17:36 lowlypawn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 16:24 rushz0rz wrote:
I have never once ALT-QQ'd out of a game accidentally in the 11 years I have played StarCraft.
I have never ALT-tabbed or ALT-QQ'd out of a WC3 game either. As for the windows button, take it out of your keyboard. It serves no real purpose anyway.
How the hell do you even do that accidentally? I’ve only accidentally Alt-QQ a won game a handful of times but that’e enough. As Ingenol said, “Q” is in a good location. Pretty much anyone who has remapped their keys to the QWER,ASDF,ZXCV has probably accidentally ALT-QQ at least once. I also don’t feel like prying out my windows key from my nice new Razer lycosa keyboard. Thou if I must I will find a way to take it apart and permanently disable the windows key. What’s crazy is I tried disabling the win key in the program that came with the keyboard, it didn’t work... So then I tried the regedit hack for vista, http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/77881-windows-hotkeys.html and even that didn’t work!GRRRRRR, thankfully warkeys/autokeys has an option to disable the left windows key. Anyway how you have never ALT-QQ or ALT-tabbbed in 11 years is a mystery to me But I can only guess you don’t use custom keys and/or or you are mostly a mouse only player.
I use my keyboard just as much as my mouse during games.
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War3 maps aren't that big. That is, the standard maps aren't. Looking through my folder right now, some of the smaller maps are 80-90kb. An average sized map (4 players) is about 150-200kb. A large (12 player) map is only 300 kb.
Custom maps like DOTA are probably why you guys think they are over 1 MB.
I think it'll be easy for Blizzard to have replays online once again.
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On March 14 2009 02:09 bludragen88 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 16:18 -orb- wrote:On March 13 2009 16:09 Rice wrote:On March 13 2009 16:01 -orb- wrote:
Need to be able to manually alter what colors people appear as.
I'm colorblind shift + tab OH GREAT BECAUSE THE GREEN+RED IT CHANGES IT TO IS REALLY GREAT HUH? Like 99.9% of the people that are color blind, I'M RED/GREEN color blind. I want to be able to change it to like red/blue or yellow/blue etc Actually, among colorblindnesses, I thought red/green colorblindness was only a slight majority of all cases, because there's protanopia, which is a lack of red receptors... but anyways, I totally agree that you should be able to manually change the colors to whatever you want (and set those color preferences out of game, even). I also think that even if alt-QQ has never happened to you, you should be able to disable it if it happens to some people. I'm pretty sure any casual player would be extremely turned off by a game if they lost two games that they were winning to a stupid keyboard shortcut (especially since their hotkey control wouldn't be as refined as longtime players).
Red/green are by far the most, something like 80% of them, where most of the red/green can actually see all colors but with their green spectrum shifted towards the red one making them seem extremely similar, or some of them have the red spectrum shifted towards green instead getting almost the same effect.
The rest types of color blindness just lacks some receptors and thus do not see those colors at all, like me who don't see red. And color blindness is quite common, 10% of males got it so its a huge amount of people who gets handicapped by the large reliance on colors in most games.
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The only times I ever hit the windows key is while playing Diablo 2, because you use Alt to see items...
On Starcraft or Warcraft, that's never been an issue. I guess I could see it because of control for hotkeying things, but for some reason I only ever accidently hit it when I try to hit Alt, not Ctrl haha
I'm with ya on the easy way to squelch though. Since that's a feature in Diablo, it's kinda weird they left it out in WC3. It could be in the diplomacy menu where you ally/unally people.
...How do you accidently hit Alt and Tab though? I can't really see hitting both of them at once happening accidently.
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On March 14 2009 10:33 Murkyith14 wrote:
The only times I ever hit the windows key is while playing Diablo 2, because you use Alt to see items...
On Starcraft or Warcraft, that's never been an issue. I guess I could see it because of control for hotkeying things, but for some reason I only ever accidently hit it when I try to hit Alt, not Ctrl haha
I'm with ya on the easy way to squelch though. Since that's a feature in Diablo, it's kinda weird they left it out in WC3. It could be in the diplomacy menu where you ally/unally people.
...How do you accidently hit Alt and Tab though? I can't really see hitting both of them at once happening accidently.
Can happen in WC3, you use Alt to see the health bars of all units on the screen and you wanna get group 1 and you accidently hit Tab? 
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On March 13 2009 16:18 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 16:09 Rice wrote:On March 13 2009 16:01 -orb- wrote:
Need to be able to manually alter what colors people appear as.
I'm colorblind shift + tab OH GREAT BECAUSE THE GREEN+RED IT CHANGES IT TO IS REALLY GREAT HUH? Like 99.9% of the people that are color blind, I'M RED/GREEN color blind. I want to be able to change it to like red/blue or yellow/blue etc
I know nothing about color blind. So if you're RED/GREEN color blind, how do you deal with red/green traffic lights ?
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On March 13 2009 15:13 SoMuchBetter wrote:
i hope the annoying chains from war3's interface don't make a return. they were nice to look at the first couple of times, but after that became annoying
plus not letting people watch replays on bnet was a mistake
I remember Blizzard even point that out themself a long time ago, I'm sure it will be fixed.
However things like window key and alt+qq isn't a too big of deal for me, as I often use them, and I never accidently pressed them during games.
Edit: I have a habbit of taking my thumb off the alt key when I use other buttons.
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On March 14 2009 11:55 hixhix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 16:18 -orb- wrote:On March 13 2009 16:09 Rice wrote:On March 13 2009 16:01 -orb- wrote:
Need to be able to manually alter what colors people appear as.
I'm colorblind shift + tab OH GREAT BECAUSE THE GREEN+RED IT CHANGES IT TO IS REALLY GREAT HUH? Like 99.9% of the people that are color blind, I'M RED/GREEN color blind. I want to be able to change it to like red/blue or yellow/blue etc I know nothing about color blind. So if you're RED/GREEN color blind, how do you deal with red/green traffic lights ?
Unlike blizzard (and most game developers it seems... sigh) the government actually took color blind people into account when making traffic lights.
You see, being color blind only makes two colors look exactly alike if they are the same shade. In other words, if you were to take a picture and then completely desaturate it, would they look the same in black and white? Obviously it's not quite this simple since for almost all cases of color blindness the color blind person doesn't see in black and white (that would be a complete lack of retinal cones).
While different shades can still be hard to tell apart, the closer the shade is, the harder the two colors are to tell apart, so with traffic lights they made the red a very deep red, while the green is a very light green so that it's easy to tell apart.
On top of that if they were the same shade, red is always on top and green is always on the bottom, so you don't need to be able to see the colors.
Edit: Here is a very cool site that shows you somewhat what it might be like to be colorblind.
For most of the images on that page I can't tell the two apart.
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doubleupgradeobbies!
Australia1187 Posts
On March 14 2009 14:45 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2009 11:55 hixhix wrote:On March 13 2009 16:18 -orb- wrote:On March 13 2009 16:09 Rice wrote:On March 13 2009 16:01 -orb- wrote:
Need to be able to manually alter what colors people appear as.
I'm colorblind shift + tab OH GREAT BECAUSE THE GREEN+RED IT CHANGES IT TO IS REALLY GREAT HUH? Like 99.9% of the people that are color blind, I'M RED/GREEN color blind. I want to be able to change it to like red/blue or yellow/blue etc I know nothing about color blind. So if you're RED/GREEN color blind, how do you deal with red/green traffic lights ? Unlike blizzard (and most game developers it seems... sigh) the government actually took color blind people into account when making traffic lights. You see, being color blind only makes two colors look exactly alike if they are the same shade. In other words, if you were to take a picture and then completely desaturate it, would they look the same in black and white? Obviously it's not quite this simple since for almost all cases of color blindness the color blind person doesn't see in black and white (that would be a complete lack of retinal cones). While different shades can still be hard to tell apart, the closer the shade is, the harder the two colors are to tell apart, so with traffic lights they made the red a very deep red, while the green is a very light green so that it's easy to tell apart. On top of that if they were the same shade, red is always on top and green is always on the bottom, so you don't need to be able to see the colors. Edit: Here is a very cool site that shows you somewhat what it might be like to be colorblind.For most of the images on that page I can't tell the two apart.
A simpler part of the solution is that the green light is always on the bottom, and the red always on top :D
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You guys forgot the most important thing:
Bring back game speed setting
What gave Blizzard the idea that people enjoyed watching unit spend 10 mins killing each other when both WC2 and SC were played in fastest? Not allowing players to set game speed was the worst thing about WC3.
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On March 14 2009 15:49 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
You guys forgot the most important thing:
Bring back game speed setting
What gave Blizzard the idea that people enjoyed watching unit spend 10 mins killing each other when both WC2 and SC were played in fastest? Not allowing players to set game speed was the worst thing about WC3.
You can set game speed in Warcraft 3. Everyone plays Warcraft 3 on fastest setting.
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On March 14 2009 16:14 SearingShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2009 15:49 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
You guys forgot the most important thing:
Bring back game speed setting
What gave Blizzard the idea that people enjoyed watching unit spend 10 mins killing each other when both WC2 and SC were played in fastest? Not allowing players to set game speed was the worst thing about WC3. You can set game speed in Warcraft 3. Everyone plays Warcraft 3 on fastest setting.
Not to mention the fact that they've already discussed game speeds, so they'll most likely be in the game.
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On March 14 2009 15:49 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
You guys forgot the most important thing:
Bring back game speed setting
What gave Blizzard the idea that people enjoyed watching unit spend 10 mins killing each other when both WC2 and SC were played in fastest? Not allowing players to set game speed was the worst thing about WC3.
i like when people who have literally no knowledge about a game talk as if they are seasoned veterans
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On March 14 2009 17:34 Rice wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2009 15:49 AsianEcksDragon wrote:
You guys forgot the most important thing:
Bring back game speed setting
What gave Blizzard the idea that people enjoyed watching unit spend 10 mins killing each other when both WC2 and SC were played in fastest? Not allowing players to set game speed was the worst thing about WC3. i like when people who have literally no knowledge about a game talk as if they are seasoned veterans
Indeed... Even Faster is the speed of choice for competitive players in WC2.
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Actually, as far as I know, Blizzard has made some accomodations for the colour blind in StarCraft II. Unfortunately, I cannot remember the specific article in which it was written. I know it was some sort of preview of the BlizzCon 2007 build, but I am honestly not sure.
If I find it, I will be sure to post it here.
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Feed back so far has been good. Accommodations the colors for color blind players is a good idea, and I remembered one more idea that should definitely be implemented.
* Injured units should bleed! (Or smoke if they are mechanical)…Health bars are ugly and old school. In WC3 they added the feature to always have them on, that was a step in the right direction but they still look terrible. A much better solution that is already partially implemented would be to make injured units bleed (or smoke if they are mechanical). Building already have this feature so it would not be hard for blizzard to add this to all the units. The only problem I can see would be a frame rate issue. If you have a hundred zerglings all bleeding at once I could see that slowing down the game. But then again I’m sure there would be a way to have a simpler bleed animation for slower computers that would not take any more CPU cycles then those ugly heath bars.
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haha, if those are the only lessons learned from wc3 we really have to prepare for the worst.
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i don't know if this has been mentioned, but i hope when you can rotate the camera, it stays like that instead of reverting back to normal if you let go (with a reset button if you want it back to its default view)
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On March 15 2009 19:02 ven_ wrote:
haha, if those are the only lessons learned from wc3 we really have to prepare for the worst.
Care to elaborate? What are the technical limitations of War3 that we are missing?
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Wasn't there an option in WC3 to have the show hit bars thing always on? So you didn't have to hold Alt.
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On March 16 2009 04:52 Kyuukyuu wrote:
Wasn't there an option in WC3 to have the show hit bars thing always on? So you didn't have to hold Alt.
There is yes, added in a later patch.
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On March 13 2009 16:18 -orb- wrote:OH GREAT BECAUSE THE GREEN+RED IT CHANGES IT TO IS REALLY GREAT HUH? Like 99.9% of the people that are color blind, I'M RED/GREEN color blind. I want to be able to change it to like red/blue or yellow/blue etc
in war3, it changes to blue (your units), cyan (allies) and red (enemies)
huh?
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On March 16 2009 02:52 SoleSteeler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2009 19:02 ven_ wrote:
haha, if those are the only lessons learned from wc3 we really have to prepare for the worst. Care to elaborate? What are the technical limitations of War3 that we are missing?
None... there are indeed lessons to be learned from WC3 but none of the things mentioned by the OP have got anything to do with them.
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Changing the hotkey lay out is kind of lame IMO, the next step would be setting 1a2a3a as one key, or 5sd6sd7sd8sd
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ya but its not really a slippery slope so the next step is irrelevant
its pretty easy to say its ok to remap single keys to single keys but not ok to put multiple actions on one.
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Why not? Gaming keyboards already have that kind of capability, as well as third-party programs... They are basically adapting parts of former third-party program advantages into the game, so why would this not be a foreseeable possibility?
I guess it would help with any balancing quirks that are inherent to the lay-out, like how producing some units is more convenient than others in certain races.
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On March 16 2009 22:22 fanatacist wrote:
Changing the hotkey lay out is kind of lame IMO, the next step would be setting 1a2a3a as one key, or 5sd6sd7sd8sd
OMG lets hope no programmer ever comes up with this, cause non-live starcraft will be ruined since you cant control how much players change stuff like that. I am a little scared now ...
I also agree that changing hotkeys is not necessary. It takes a little skill to get used to the starcraft hotkeys and seeing skill has been taken out of starcraft 2 a lot already, lets not simplify it even more.
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Unlike blizzard (and most game developers it seems... sigh) the government actually took color blind people into account when making traffic lights.
Just because they didn't go full blown custom color editing doesn't mean they didn't take it into account. Blizzard's the only developer I can think of off-hand that has made an effort, and with the next WoW patch they added even more color-blind functionality.
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Look its not like people will be able to do Micro macros (lol that sounded weird)
Its just, instead of building zerglings with Z you can choose Q
Or you can make ALL special habilities of units in like QWE
etc...
Its not gamebreaking.
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Changing hotkeys DOES make the game easier. But mostly because it's more COMFORTABLE. If you're a bad player - it won't help you at all, if you're a good player - it will make the game more smooth/fluent for you.
It would only be bad if not everyone would be able to do this. If everyone could set his hotkeys/tooltips to whatever suits this person there really is no problem with that.
And I'm all for disabling windows key/alt+tab in-game (if you want to minimize you can always ctrl+esc), it has screwed up a considerable amount of games for me. Alt+q+q wasn't such a big problem since I've got 'move' under q (and you don't surround all that often) and all abilities under zxcv.
They should also remove 'rally to unit' stuff. It's all fine in WC3 when you rally your units to a hero, but when he dies they rally to the location he died at, and if you revive him while they're walking there thy turn around to go back to your base wasting a lot of time.
They could make it so if a unit that's been rallied to dies the rally points for buildings simply reset.
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I just took my windows key off. ^^
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On March 16 2009 15:27 ven_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2009 02:52 SoleSteeler wrote:On March 15 2009 19:02 ven_ wrote:
haha, if those are the only lessons learned from wc3 we really have to prepare for the worst. Care to elaborate? What are the technical limitations of War3 that we are missing? None... there are indeed lessons to be learned from WC3 but none of the things mentioned by the OP have got anything to do with them.
Again, elaborate. What are these lessons?
The things that most people perceive as being "wrong" with War3 aren't in SC2 in the first place. Namely things like heroes, items, creeps, upkeep, low unit count, high HP units, etc.
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On March 15 2009 15:07 lowlypawn wrote:
Feed back so far has been good. Accommodations the colors for color blind players is a good idea, and I remembered one more idea that should definitely be implemented.
* Injured units should bleed! (Or smoke if they are mechanical)…Health bars are ugly and old school. In WC3 they added the feature to always have them on, that was a step in the right direction but they still look terrible. A much better solution that is already partially implemented would be to make injured units bleed (or smoke if they are mechanical). Building already have this feature so it would not be hard for blizzard to add this to all the units. The only problem I can see would be a frame rate issue. If you have a hundred zerglings all bleeding at once I could see that slowing down the game. But then again I’m sure there would be a way to have a simpler bleed animation for slower computers that would not take any more CPU cycles then those ugly heath bars.
You've got to be joking, how would you tell the actual HP of the unit at a glance if there are no health bars? Animations are incredibly imprecise, not to mention the fact that they'll just make the game more confusing to look at. It's the same argument about extended death animations, they add nothing to the gameplay and just confuse players and make it harder to play the game. Sure, with buildings it's ok to have them because it's not very often you need to know the exact HP of a building, but a health bar really isn't very intrusive and makes the whole experience a lot better.
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Everyone whining about being able to remap hotkeys please stfu and get your head checked.
Why should sticking to the HK layout given to us by blizzard be interpreted as a sign of "skill"?
Being forced to use the control lay-out given to you is archaic and sloppy, I hate every single game that forces me to use some kind of preset controls. Customization FTW.
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I can understand the protesters for MBS. Personally I don't mind MBS, and yes GASP I am not a SC noob I played 1v1 for almost 3 years before stopping due to final school year. I just don't like to hear noobs complain about the only skill in sc is being able to select stuff fast, and citing it as the primary reason why they lose to me.
So yes, I understand the MBS haters. But protesting against customizable controls is taking things way too far.
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On March 18 2009 01:27 LilClinkin wrote:
Everyone whining about being able to remap hotkeys please stfu and get your head checked.
Why should sticking to the HK layout given to us by blizzard be interpreted as a sign of "skill"?
Being forced to use the control lay-out given to you is archaic and sloppy, I hate every single game that forces me to use some kind of preset controls. Customization FTW.
it's a nice opinion but it's not really an argument with logic to back it up
if the layout doesn't have anything to do with 'skill' then you'll have no problem adapting to it
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It would make things take longer in setting up for Lans, offline tournies, pro-games, etc.. If each player had to change each of their race's hotkeys in a menu before the game, among all the other changes they need to make. You wouldn't be able to just hop on behind someone else's rig and blast some D's.
Something I like about Starcraft is that other than potentially having to get used to different mouse sensitivity, you can sit down at any computer with SC, and retain most of your skill. It would suck if you played on custom hotkeys for a year, then went to a lan and got raped because you were hitting T instead of K or something like that.
Perhaps server-side profile settings? That would be cool.
It's not a big deal if people re-map keys, and Blizzard, if I remember, already said they would allow for custom hotkeys in a menu(I might be absolutely insane but I swear I remember them saying that.)
But these were some small issues with the remap hotkeys thing.
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the main issue i see with that is different keyboards, for example
player 1 uses a g-15 and binds shit to the side buttons
player 2 uses a dt35 (i think they're called) and does not have the extra buttons
without saying anything about if it is or isn't actually a major advantage, one keyboard could and may be viewed as having an advantage over the other
a uniform keyset avoids this 'problem' all together
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On March 17 2009 08:32 SoleSteeler wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2009 15:27 ven_ wrote:On March 16 2009 02:52 SoleSteeler wrote:On March 15 2009 19:02 ven_ wrote:
haha, if those are the only lessons learned from wc3 we really have to prepare for the worst. Care to elaborate? What are the technical limitations of War3 that we are missing? None... there are indeed lessons to be learned from WC3 but none of the things mentioned by the OP have got anything to do with them. Again, elaborate. What are these lessons? The things that most people perceive as being "wrong" with War3 aren't in SC2 in the first place. Namely things like heroes, items, creeps, upkeep, low unit count, high HP units, etc.
It's not really that I think there's something wrong with War3. Well, it has a few issues but they're pretty minor and as you already pointed out War3 and Sc2 are so different that they probably won't impact the latter at all.
It's just that I don't really see how the OP's issues are related to Warcraft 3.
What he states as lessons to be learned from War3 could've already been learned from the original Starcraft. Which didn't happen because most of those things are useless. -_-;;
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accidentally alt q q'ing is the reason why i now do F10 + E + Q
edit: holy fuck. 1999 posts. i have no clue what to use my 2000th post on. it probably won't be epic
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they could quite easily make it ALT-Q then O for OK or E for end scenario
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On March 17 2009 20:20 nataziel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2009 15:07 lowlypawn wrote:
Feed back so far has been good. Accommodations the colors for color blind players is a good idea, and I remembered one more idea that should definitely be implemented.
* Injured units should bleed! (Or smoke if they are mechanical)…Health bars are ugly and old school. In WC3 they added the feature to always have them on, that was a step in the right direction but they still look terrible. A much better solution that is already partially implemented would be to make injured units bleed (or smoke if they are mechanical). Building already have this feature so it would not be hard for blizzard to add this to all the units. The only problem I can see would be a frame rate issue. If you have a hundred zerglings all bleeding at once I could see that slowing down the game. But then again I’m sure there would be a way to have a simpler bleed animation for slower computers that would not take any more CPU cycles then those ugly heath bars.
You've got to be joking, how would you tell the actual HP of the unit at a glance if there are no health bars? Animations are incredibly imprecise, not to mention the fact that they'll just make the game more confusing to look at. It's the same argument about extended death animations, they add nothing to the gameplay and just confuse players and make it harder to play the game. Sure, with buildings it's ok to have them because it's not very often you need to know the exact HP of a building, but a health bar really isn't very intrusive and makes the whole experience a lot better.
Health bars also don't show precisely how many hit points a unit has left. You have to click on the unit to see the exact number. But you could make the bleed animation look clean and easy to see. As the unit gets more damaged it could bleed more and start looking more banged up. It would certainly look better then a health bar floating in air above each unit.
Another point is knowing “exactly” how much heath left is not as important in SC as WC3. In WC3 you really need to know if that next Coil Sormbolt is going to kill your hero so you can town portal right before it hits. There is no TP in starcraft so stopping a killing blow is really not an option. Just knowing a unit is in the red will be more then adequate.
Also the resistance to custom keys is strange, one person said it would take too long to set up at tournaments. How long dose it take to plug a keyboard and mouse in? Then you just load your custom keys file from a CD and check the box. Would take 60 seconds. I do like the idea of keeping the custom keys configuration stored on the server! Also don't most people bring their own computers to LAN parties anyway?
The bottom line is do you guys want to take SCII to a new level or RTS gaming or do you just want SC/BW with a facelift?
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Skimming isn't revealing any mentions of the usefulness of the windows key. Yes, back in the day, I hated it, but I've gotten more used to it. It's very convenient for its hotkey functions (like win+E for explorer, win+D for minimize all/show desktop, etc). An ability to disable it would be most welcome, of course.
And yeah, there are gaming keyboards that disable it. (btw, pm me if you know anything about a keyboard with antighosting that's otherwise fairly normal and not too expensive, and isn't some wasd area-only crap.)
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On March 18 2009 05:15 ven_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2009 08:32 SoleSteeler wrote:On March 16 2009 15:27 ven_ wrote:On March 16 2009 02:52 SoleSteeler wrote:On March 15 2009 19:02 ven_ wrote:
haha, if those are the only lessons learned from wc3 we really have to prepare for the worst. Care to elaborate? What are the technical limitations of War3 that we are missing? None... there are indeed lessons to be learned from WC3 but none of the things mentioned by the OP have got anything to do with them. Again, elaborate. What are these lessons? The things that most people perceive as being "wrong" with War3 aren't in SC2 in the first place. Namely things like heroes, items, creeps, upkeep, low unit count, high HP units, etc. It's not really that I think there's something wrong with War3. Well, it has a few issues but they're pretty minor and as you already pointed out War3 and Sc2 are so different that they probably won't impact the latter at all. It's just that I don't really see how the OP's issues are related to Warcraft 3. What he states as lessons to be learned from War3 could've already been learned from the original Starcraft. Which didn't happen because most of those things are useless. -_-;;
Ahhh okay. Sorry, I just wasn't sure what you were getting at before.
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we need to get blizzard to confirm LAN is in SC2 , i couldnt imagine them being stupid enough to leave it out.would be a horrible decision , the series would go backwards.
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How do you accidentally alt+QQ in Starcraft? O.O
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Alt+qq and alt+tab seems to be rare, i think the most common problem is the windows key beacuse unlike alt+qq and alt+tab you only need to press the windows key once and that's it your game is ruined. Plus the windows key is near to the shift and ctrl keys w/c is used very often.
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Well, even if you accidentally hit your windows key it's not ruined because if you notice it before you unpress the button you can still prevent it by also pressing Control and then releasing both buttons.
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On March 19 2009 18:20 ven_ wrote:
Well, even if you accidentally hit your windows key it's not ruined because if you notice it before you unpress the button you can still prevent it by also pressing Control and then releasing both buttons.
I didnt know that, thanks for the tip. The old soultion to this is to remove the windows key from the keyboard.
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First of all, you CAN edit your hotkeys in WC3, but it involves creating a separate .txt file for the hotkeys and therefore casual players (like myself) don't usually do it. A fast way to custom map your keys would definitely useful. I also think this wouldn't be 'unfair' because in fact NOT being able to edit your hotkeys favors people with larger hands that can easily stretch over the keyboard.
Pro players edit their hotkeys. True story: Grubby (one of the best WC3 pro players) once sat down at his girlfriends computer and accidentally lost a game for her by alt+qq. It even happens to pros, so the ability to disable it is definitely useful.
Second, I just went through my NGL-mappack (NGL is probably the largest WC3-league that uses only custom maps) and all maps are over 1 MB in size. This is probably too much to include the map in the replay file.
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For some reason I really thought this thread was going to be along the lines of 'how i learned to micro from WC3'. How silly of me.
For the windows key, pressing any button while holding it will negate the keystroke, no matter what order you release them in. Except windows+D and E, i guess.
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On March 19 2009 23:45 Equaoh wrote:
For some reason I really thought this thread was going to be along the lines of 'how i learned to micro from WC3'. How silly of me.
For the windows key, pressing any button while holding it will negate the keystroke, no matter what order you release them in. Except windows+D and E, i guess.
The problem is that in WC3 if you get 120+ apm you start spamming alt non-stop and don't keep it pressed. I really can't imagine myself noticing that I've pressed win-key instead of alt for this 0,5 sec (especially that I don't know any person from WC3 even on average level that would actually take a peek at the keyboard during the game).
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On March 13 2009 15:28 omninmo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 15:19 Ingenol wrote:
SC2 has the same alt functionality as War3, so disabling altQQ would be really nice (Q is obviously a great key to rebind something to). is this for real? hold down alt to see health? not sure how i feel about this
you can actually toggle it now to always show health bars and press alt to temporarily remove them (which I use on w3c)
Also, I've never alt QQ'd or alt-tabbed accidentally from sc or wc3. I mapped all hero spells to
ZXCV and most of the buildings for undead to match the
qwer
asdf
zxcv
format
and I changed burrow back to U >,< !!
PS- take a pen or screwdriver and just pop the window and scroll lock keys out. Most worthless keys on the board anyways.
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when you use default hotkeys, summoning a quillbeast while holding alt to see life bars is a death setance
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As long as you only summon one quillbeast, you'll be fine. Why would you be pressing Alt while summoning a quillbeast anyway?
I played with QWER keys for a very long time now and even though almost everything I train at my buildings is on Q and I press the Alt key pretty much all the time inbetween the other actions I never even once accidentally hit Alt + Q at the same time.
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On March 18 2009 03:02 404.Nintu wrote:
It would make things take longer in setting up for Lans, offline tournies, pro-games, etc.. If each player had to change each of their race's hotkeys in a menu before the game, among all the other changes they need to make. You wouldn't be able to just hop on behind someone else's rig and blast some D's.
Something I like about Starcraft is that other than potentially having to get used to different mouse sensitivity, you can sit down at any computer with SC, and retain most of your skill. It would suck if you played on custom hotkeys for a year, then went to a lan and got raped because you were hitting T instead of K or something like that.
Perhaps server-side profile settings? That would be cool.
It's not a big deal if people re-map keys, and Blizzard, if I remember, already said they would allow for custom hotkeys in a menu(I might be absolutely insane but I swear I remember them saying that.)
But these were some small issues with the remap hotkeys thing.
In WC3 you can save your hot key config in a really small file, its easy to carry it around in any pendrive.
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On April 01 2009 04:25 ven_ wrote:
As long as you only summon one quillbeast, you'll be fine. Why would you be pressing Alt while summoning a quillbeast anyway?
I played with QWER keys for a very long time now and even though almost everything I train at my buildings is on Q and I press the Alt key pretty much all the time inbetween the other actions I never even once accidentally hit Alt + Q at the same time.
Alt = check health
Q = move
2x Q = move closer (for surrounds)
Do you see a correlation here?
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Then stop pressing alt when pressing something else ffs... it's not that hard, I do it all the time. I spam a lot and play with 250 - 280 apm while constantly pressing alt inbetween and never even made that mistake a single time.
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On April 01 2009 06:08 ven_ wrote:
Then stop pressing alt when pressing something else ffs... it's not that hard, I do it all the time. I spam a lot and play with 250 - 280 apm while constantly pressing alt inbetween and never even made that mistake a single time.
I'm not saying I did. But I can certainly see that happening for some players.
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On March 13 2009 16:51 SearingShadow wrote:
I believe this is why players had the ability to watch SC replays on Bnet and not WC3:
Watching replays with other players online was easy in SC1 because the map file was included in the replay file. Therefore, players without the map that the game was played on would still be able to watch the replay.
In Warcraft 3, map files were a lot larger, some over 4.5 mb. If the map file was included in the replay file, some player's replay folder would be massive.
It's very likely that SC2 map files will be a lot larger than WC3 map files.
Would you rather replays be 100kb or be 5mb but you're able to watch them on Bnet?
Blizzard believes the costs out weigh the benefits.
I also play warcraft and i agree to this 100%.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On March 13 2009 17:45 SearingShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 17:06 esla_sol wrote:On March 13 2009 16:51 SearingShadow wrote:
I believe this is why players had the ability to watch SC replays on Bnet and not WC3:
Watching replays with other players online was easy in SC1 because the map file was included in the replay file. Therefore, players without the map that the game was played on would still be able to watch the replay.
In Warcraft 3, map files were a lot larger, some over 4.5 mb. If the map file was included in the replay file, some player's replay folder would be massive.
It's very likely that SC2 map files will be a lot larger than WC3 map files.
Would you rather replays be 100kb or be 5mb but you're able to watch them on Bnet?
Blizzard believes the costs out weigh the benefits. if you are watching a replay of any 1v1 game, the maps wont be over 500 kb (most would run about 200). This is true about standard Blizzard maps, but a lot of WC3 tournaments use Blizzard maps which have been edited to contain sponsors. Some even have custom loading screens. These things will increase the file size of a map by over 1 mb. And what about UMS maps? I am certain that there are going to be some very large custom made maps (> 8mb). With custom music, custom unit models, custom tilesets and a large playable area I wouldn't be surprised if some maps were over 15 mb. The only way Blizzard would allow players to view replays on Bnet is if the map files were not included in the replay file. This may be difficult for Blizzard to do.
I'm sorry to be bumping this but I have to respond.
First of all - 1 mb in this day and age (2009) is NOTHING. It's less than nothing.
Second, even if they insist on sticking with the "must have map to view replay" system (aside from not being able to watch replays online, this is the most annoying thing about WC3 replays), why wouldn't you be able to, I don't know, download the map from the player who created the replay? I mean he must have it after all.
If you can't view replays online in SC2 - the sequel to a game made 10+ years ago, in which you CAN - I'll seriously be beyond pissed off. Watching replays on your own is not fun
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I agree, watching replays online while chilling and chatting in obs mode is awesome.
must have, period.
I dont care if im downloading 50 megabite replays, its worth it (specially since it will take 5 min to DL in a bad day and im from brazil, 300-500 kbps usually, 1300 on rapidshare etc...)
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You know what would be awesome? Being able to obs a tournament at any point in the game (leaving and entering). You can do this with the program Garena to watch other people play DotA even when their game have already started.
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Yeah, make it like Youtube (but not exactly like it). Like a whole ONLINE gallery of replays is in it. There is a duplicate checker, featured replays, promoted replays, most viewed/rated replays, and replays being watched right now. Also you could comment on them.
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I don't get what the big deal about maps is. Even if the map isn't included in the replay, anyone who plays on Bnet will have the blizzard mappack, and anyone who plays on an alternate server will have their mappack (whether it be the kespa mappack or an iccup mappack or something). As long as you've got the exact same map that the game was played on, you're good to go. And if you don't, the map will friggin download from the host.
I'm just agreeing with everything that's been said before basically.
On May 28 2009 05:17 Shade692003 wrote:
You know what would be awesome? Being able to obs a tournament at any point in the game (leaving and entering). You can do this with the program Garena to watch other people play DotA even when their game have already started.
That would definitely be awesome, but what kind of issues does that create? Ping? Hardware? I dunno I'm just wondering how that works.
On May 28 2009 05:43 lolaloc wrote:
Yeah, make it like Youtube (but not exactly like it). Like a whole ONLINE gallery of replays is in it. There is a duplicate checker, featured replays, promoted replays, most viewed/rated replays, and replays being watched right now. Also you could comment on them.
You mean like... a database?
But what's the point of having that be handled by Bnet (if that is what your suggesting, since you want to know which replays are being watched right now)? I don't really get it. Do you mean the replays would be watched exclusively online?
I think a website referencing a gazillion replays to download should definitely handle that task as long as it's got an awesome search function. And I'm sure it's the first thing we'll see as soon as some lucky people log on to the beta servers.
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That would definitely be awesome, but what kind of issues does that create? Ping? Hardware? I dunno I'm just wondering how that works.
IIRC, the way it works in Garena is that you aren't actually in the same game as the players. Yuo create a game, and Garena sends the actions information to your game. So it's kinda like watching a replay, unfolding itself in real-time.
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Oh that sounds great! And since everything is kinda delayed you don't care if your "instant replay" is a couple of seconds behind. That's a pretty cool system.
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On May 28 2009 07:09 Hammy wrote:
Oh that sounds great! And since everything is kinda delayed you don't care if your "instant replay" is a couple of seconds behind. That's a pretty cool system.
Much like HLTV
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Well alt-qq no longer exists because you can see health bars now, same with alt tab.
But yeah windows button and item slots are still lame
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Bosnia-Herzegovina1437 Posts
On March 17 2009 20:20 nataziel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2009 15:07 lowlypawn wrote:
Feed back so far has been good. Accommodations the colors for color blind players is a good idea, and I remembered one more idea that should definitely be implemented.
* Injured units should bleed! (Or smoke if they are mechanical)…Health bars are ugly and old school. In WC3 they added the feature to always have them on, that was a step in the right direction but they still look terrible. A much better solution that is already partially implemented would be to make injured units bleed (or smoke if they are mechanical). Building already have this feature so it would not be hard for blizzard to add this to all the units. The only problem I can see would be a frame rate issue. If you have a hundred zerglings all bleeding at once I could see that slowing down the game. But then again I’m sure there would be a way to have a simpler bleed animation for slower computers that would not take any more CPU cycles then those ugly heath bars.
You've got to be joking, how would you tell the actual HP of the unit at a glance if there are no health bars? Animations are incredibly imprecise, not to mention the fact that they'll just make the game more confusing to look at. It's the same argument about extended death animations, they add nothing to the gameplay and just confuse players and make it harder to play the game. Sure, with buildings it's ok to have them because it's not very often you need to know the exact HP of a building, but a health bar really isn't very intrusive and makes the whole experience a lot better.
+1. No doubt health bars are ugly, but animations would make it 2x more complicated.
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On March 13 2009 15:02 lowlypawn wrote:F$%^! lessons “Learned”, and i can't edit the title O well epic fail... Here are a few little flaws in WC3 that really should have been fixed a long time ago. I don't know that Blizzard will repeat the same mistakes but for those lucky few who DO get into the SCII beta please make sure stupid little items like this don't get missed. I know most people will be focused on balance, units and stuff but please try to "see the trees in the forest" if you know what I mean. * Add an option in the menu to disable the god damn windows key! I really don't like the fact I have to edit my registry or use a 3rd party program to do this. * Same thing goes for ALT-TAB ^ * Please add a menu where we can easily configure ALL hot keys to whatever we choose , something similar to Warkeys would be nice! * Add am EASY way to squelch your opponent. When their name “IllIIlIIlIIlIIlllI” (L & i) it's a little difficult. A box you could quickly check in game sure would be nice. * ALT-QQ!?!?! Hello!!! how many countless games have been thrown away on this little gem. Option to disable please... Anything else I missed?
Congrats on your concern being addressed in Blizzard's most recent Q&A! Unfortunately, however, it seems you and I will still be using AutoHotkey to defuse our Windows keys.
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On May 28 2009 10:36 peidongyang wrote:
Well alt-qq no longer exists because you can see health bars now, same with alt tab.
But yeah windows button and item slots are still lame
i was too used to holding down alt for all those years and never could adjust
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On May 28 2009 04:07 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 17:45 SearingShadow wrote:On March 13 2009 17:06 esla_sol wrote:On March 13 2009 16:51 SearingShadow wrote:
I believe this is why players had the ability to watch SC replays on Bnet and not WC3:
Watching replays with other players online was easy in SC1 because the map file was included in the replay file. Therefore, players without the map that the game was played on would still be able to watch the replay.
In Warcraft 3, map files were a lot larger, some over 4.5 mb. If the map file was included in the replay file, some player's replay folder would be massive.
It's very likely that SC2 map files will be a lot larger than WC3 map files.
Would you rather replays be 100kb or be 5mb but you're able to watch them on Bnet?
Blizzard believes the costs out weigh the benefits. if you are watching a replay of any 1v1 game, the maps wont be over 500 kb (most would run about 200). This is true about standard Blizzard maps, but a lot of WC3 tournaments use Blizzard maps which have been edited to contain sponsors. Some even have custom loading screens. These things will increase the file size of a map by over 1 mb. And what about UMS maps? I am certain that there are going to be some very large custom made maps (> 8mb). With custom music, custom unit models, custom tilesets and a large playable area I wouldn't be surprised if some maps were over 15 mb. The only way Blizzard would allow players to view replays on Bnet is if the map files were not included in the replay file. This may be difficult for Blizzard to do. I'm sorry to be bumping this but I have to respond. First of all - 1 mb in this day and age (2009) is NOTHING. It's less than nothing. Second, even if they insist on sticking with the "must have map to view replay" system (aside from not being able to watch replays online, this is the most annoying thing about WC3 replays), why wouldn't you be able to, I don't know, download the map from the player who created the replay? I mean he must have it after all. If you can't view replays online in SC2 - the sequel to a game made 10+ years ago, in which you CAN - I'll seriously be beyond pissed off. Watching replays on your own is not fun
Respectfully disagree with 1 mb isn't worth much. Sure it's not worth much in terms of storage, it is worth a lot in terms of hosting and bandwidth costs. Add in the popularity of SC2 and its subsequent expansion(s), the costs quickly adds up (same way unit weapon and armor upgrades snowballs in BW) to significant amounts.
I think the best option for Blizzard is to give the players the options at the time of saving replays whether to include the map or not.
I am kind of surprised nobody's mentioned this, probably because none of you are DotA players (where the longest games in melee last around 25 mins, dota games last 50 mins on average), but replays are screwed after reloading from saves. It would be nice if we had some kind of ability to keep the replays as whole or in parts even after a save-load scenario.
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Osaka27148 Posts
I disagree that 1MB is worth much for hosting and bandwidth. I think in the day and age of torrents, 1MB is absolutely nothing. The cheapest hosting packages would allow for thousands of downloads for small sites. Serious sites which would gain more traffic don't have to worry about it much, as they have much larger bandwidth allocations.
Lastly, there are plenty of free hosting sites for casual sharing. Everyone knows about yousendit etc.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Also, hosting a 1 mb file in 2009, is the price really that different from hosting a 100-300 kb file in 2001?
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What the hell, you don't need to have the map attached to the replay.. Just add a symbolic link with the map name, and if you don't have the map, well then you just have to get it somewhere! It was this way in Starcraft because the map files were so small, but theres absolutely no need to have this much repeated code (the map) inside every other little file, replay file!
I don't know why online replay viewing wasn't enabled in Warcraft 3, but it certainly wasn't due to the inability to find out what map each replay belongs to, since they do work in single player after all! The replays work fine without the map, as they should! I think it was just programmer lazyness.
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Sweden33719 Posts
Here's what's annoying about maps not being part of the replay file:
Step 1: You go to a replay site and download a nice shiny new replay.
Step 2: You go to start it, only to be greeted by a not so nice but probably shiny message that you don't have version #22509034590450495 of Lost Temple.
Step 3: You scour the internet for said map and put it in your map folder.
Step 4: You go back to the game to try to watch it, only to notice that the god damned map has to be in the same god damned fucking folder as the person who saved the replay had it in.
Step 5: You move the map to c:\games\warcraft 3\replay\annoying league with renamed maps\season 50\mapname
It's annoying.
Not as bad as not being able to watch replays online, but annoying.
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Hello 1000000 version of LT ? Would you dare catch'em all ? I've better things to do sorry.
And even if 1mb isn't a lot you know how blizz will react. They want their game as open as possible to the public.
Therefore 1mb is a lot for blizzard's standard imo.
edit : fuk fa answered faster
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It certainly is annoying. I hope they're aware of that.
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On May 29 2009 11:53 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Here's what's annoying about maps not being part of the replay file:
Step 1: You go to a replay site and download a nice shiny new replay.
Step 2: You go to start it, only to be greeted by a not so nice but probably shiny message that you don't have version #22509034590450495 of Lost Temple.
Step 3: You scour the internet for said map and put it in your map folder.
Step 4: You go back to the game to try to watch it, only to notice that the god damned map has to be in the same god damned fucking folder as the person who saved the replay had it in.
Step 5: You move the map to c:\games\warcraft 3\replay\annoying league with renamed maps\season 50\mapname
It's annoying.
Not as bad as not being able to watch replays online, but annoying.
Yes that needs to be fixed somehow.
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On May 29 2009 10:19 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Also, hosting a 1 mb file in 2009, is the price really that different from hosting a 100-300 kb file in 2001?
Maybe TL.net admins can shed some light on this?
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On May 28 2009 04:07 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2009 17:45 SearingShadow wrote:On March 13 2009 17:06 esla_sol wrote:On March 13 2009 16:51 SearingShadow wrote:
I believe this is why players had the ability to watch SC replays on Bnet and not WC3:
Watching replays with other players online was easy in SC1 because the map file was included in the replay file. Therefore, players without the map that the game was played on would still be able to watch the replay.
In Warcraft 3, map files were a lot larger, some over 4.5 mb. If the map file was included in the replay file, some player's replay folder would be massive.
It's very likely that SC2 map files will be a lot larger than WC3 map files.
Would you rather replays be 100kb or be 5mb but you're able to watch them on Bnet?
Blizzard believes the costs out weigh the benefits. if you are watching a replay of any 1v1 game, the maps wont be over 500 kb (most would run about 200). This is true about standard Blizzard maps, but a lot of WC3 tournaments use Blizzard maps which have been edited to contain sponsors. Some even have custom loading screens. These things will increase the file size of a map by over 1 mb. And what about UMS maps? I am certain that there are going to be some very large custom made maps (> 8mb). With custom music, custom unit models, custom tilesets and a large playable area I wouldn't be surprised if some maps were over 15 mb. The only way Blizzard would allow players to view replays on Bnet is if the map files were not included in the replay file. This may be difficult for Blizzard to do. I'm sorry to be bumping this but I have to respond. First of all - 1 mb in this day and age (2009) is NOTHING. It's less than nothing. Second, even if they insist on sticking with the "must have map to view replay" system (aside from not being able to watch replays online, this is the most annoying thing about WC3 replays), why wouldn't you be able to, I don't know, download the map from the player who created the replay? I mean he must have it after all. If you can't view replays online in SC2 - the sequel to a game made 10+ years ago, in which you CAN - I'll seriously be beyond pissed off. Watching replays on your own is not fun
Truth. There's no reason that you shouldn't be able to watch them online. That would seriously annoy me (and I'm sure I'm not alone) if we couldn't.
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EPT
