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Introduction Terran and Protoss both have become very versatile on the battlefield. They have many tactics to surround, and change up the way the battle turns out. Let me name a few of these.
Stalkers: Blinking is an easy way to surround the enemy. You can go up and down cliffs, pulling off surprise attacks. Vikings: Also a good way to surround the enemy. You can pull off surprise attacks, and get behind the enemy quickly. Colossus: Ignoring cliffs, these beasts can easily surround an incoming force of Zerglings, approaching your Immortals. Being sneaky enough, you can go around the battlefield via cliffs, and backside the enemy. Reapers: 'Nuff said.
Zerg don't have much that would be called versatile, or atleast compared to the other two races. Yes, they have nydus worms. These aren't quite versatile however. Sure, once they are set up they are, but getting behind the enemy using these is a different story. Plus, I can't imagine people getting a Nydus all prepared in time to stop a force of Stalkers.
MY IDEA All Zerg ground units, while burrowed, are mobile, but only while under creep. This would make a big emphasis on spreading creep. You will now have to think about positioning your Zerg force before hand, and securing a safe place of creep.
Imagine: You have constructed a few plots of creep outside your first expo. You are attacked by Stalkers. You burrow about a fourth of your Zerglings, and move the lings to the other side of the Creep plot. The Stalker's blink micro isn't turning out to be as effective now that they're surrounded.
I was imagining moving speed to still be pretty fast, else it wouldn't prove to be useful in the first place. (First group of lings would be dead by the chance you get to move your burrowed group and unburrow). It would be really creepy moving around in a Zerg base. Zerg could be crawling behind your back right now, ready to spring out.
Anyway, how do you guys think this would work?
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^^oh shit.
Well, thanks for pointing that out, I'm pretty new to TL.net.
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On October 14 2008 09:42 Nisco wrote: Introduction Terran and Protoss both have become very versatile on the battlefield. They have many tactics to surround, and change up the way the battle turns out. Let me name a few of these.
Stalkers: Blinking is an easy way to surround the enemy. You can go up and down cliffs, pulling off surprise attacks. Vikings: Also a good way to surround the enemy. You can pull off surprise attacks, and get behind the enemy quickly. Colossus: Ignoring cliffs, these beasts can easily surround an incoming force of Zerglings, approaching your Immortals. Being sneaky enough, you can go around the battlefield via cliffs, and backside the enemy. Reapers: 'Nuff said.
Zerg don't have much that would be called versatile, or atleast compared to the other two races. Yes, they have nydus worms. These aren't quite versatile however. Sure, once they are set up they are, but getting behind the enemy using these is a different story. Plus, I can't imagine people getting a Nydus all prepared in time to stop a force of Stalkers.
MY IDEA All Zerg ground units, while burrowed, are mobile, but only while under creep. This would make a big emphasis on spreading creep. You will now have to think about positioning your Zerg force before hand, and securing a safe place of creep.
Imagine: You have constructed a few plots of creep outside your first expo. You are attacked by Stalkers. You burrow about a fourth of your Zerglings, and move the lings to the other side of the Creep plot. The Stalker's blink micro isn't turning out to be as effective now that they're surrounded.
I was imagining moving speed to still be pretty fast, else it wouldn't prove to be useful in the first place. (First group of lings would be dead by the chance you get to move your burrowed group and unburrow). It would be really creepy moving around in a Zerg base. Zerg could be crawling behind your back right now, ready to spring out.
Anyway, how do you guys think this would work?
This is a very interesting idea. I would like to see you develop it alittle more. Mechanics such as these are very good at striking that duality of simple and complex .
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hmm
this is one of the few ideas I dont think is immediately stupid
I'd be interested to see this tested out, but I think there should be a speed reduction while burrowed
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The Infestor already moves while burrowed And there are already advantages to being on creep. I don't think that this is necessary.
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Where did we ever come up with this belief that just because an idea may be bad it is not worth examining?
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Good point Archerofaiur.
A lot of ideas are totally shitty, but might as well test them out to see how they work.
Kinda like this Gas Mechanic crap, eh?
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I dont like this idea simply because its primarily defensive in nature. I mean, aren't zerg all about mobility? I mean you could look at it from a different perspective and say that the zerg aren't gaining an ability while they're on the creep, they're losing an ability while they're off the creep.
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This will make ZvZ very very interesting... would you be able to go through elevation ? That might be imbalanced, but would make back door entrances in ZvZ possible.
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I would think that speed is more important than position when your enemy is already in your base. People would rather just stop the enemy from destroying buildings as fast as they can than lose fewer units, but lose a significant amount of buildings.
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Creep should be able to sink down Stalkers, burrown them to no end, absorb their blink ability and give it to ultras.
I am a little pissed at protoss atm.
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I really like this idea. It's simple and creates a lot of fun options
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On October 14 2008 09:42 Nisco wrote: Introduction Terran and Protoss both have become very versatile on the battlefield. They have many tactics to surround, and change up the way the battle turns out. Let me name a few of these.
Stalkers: Blinking is an easy way to surround the enemy. You can go up and down cliffs, pulling off surprise attacks. Vikings: Also a good way to surround the enemy. You can pull off surprise attacks, and get behind the enemy quickly. Colossus: Ignoring cliffs, these beasts can easily surround an incoming force of Zerglings, approaching your Immortals. Being sneaky enough, you can go around the battlefield via cliffs, and backside the enemy. Reapers: 'Nuff said.
Zerg don't have much that would be called versatile, or atleast compared to the other two races. Yes, they have nydus worms. These aren't quite versatile however. Sure, once they are set up they are, but getting behind the enemy using these is a different story. Plus, I can't imagine people getting a Nydus all prepared in time to stop a force of Stalkers.
MY IDEA All Zerg ground units, while burrowed, are mobile, but only while under creep. This would make a big emphasis on spreading creep. You will now have to think about positioning your Zerg force before hand, and securing a safe place of creep.
Imagine: You have constructed a few plots of creep outside your first expo. You are attacked by Stalkers. You burrow about a fourth of your Zerglings, and move the lings to the other side of the Creep plot. The Stalker's blink micro isn't turning out to be as effective now that they're surrounded.
I was imagining moving speed to still be pretty fast, else it wouldn't prove to be useful in the first place. (First group of lings would be dead by the chance you get to move your burrowed group and unburrow). It would be really creepy moving around in a Zerg base. Zerg could be crawling behind your back right now, ready to spring out.
Anyway, how do you guys think this would work?
Borrowed Creep Movement + Underground Speed Bonus = Increased Zerg Macro
So how about comboing burrowing movement with the 30% (or more) speed bonus on creep. To clarify make the speed bonus only apply to underground units and make both underground movement and the speed bonus only applicable when a zerg unit is on creep.
This gives zerg a early form of transport (before that nydus worm gets out). This is especially good if you have constructed a creep highway to the opponents base. Spawn some zerglings, burrow them and speed crawl on your creep highway all the way over to the opponents base, unburrow and start attacking.
As you noted this lends an air of suspence to invading a zerg base. You never know what can be moving deep underneath your feet or when it could pop out.
One cool part about tying the creep speed bonus to burrowed movement is that now you can give the bonus to drones since they can't mine minerals while borrowed.
Additionally you dont have to worry that much about why the zerg can move faster on creep but other races arnt slowed down. Lore can claim that when burrowed the zerg could be pumped through creep vessels (like blood vessels) to their destination.
Visual clarity is a concern but I believe the head above ground animations or some sort of underground silhouette unique for each zerg unit could allow for quick identification.
This could open up many interesting gameplay situations. Ex. early game zealots getting past your units and you burrow and head them off.
Zerg on zerg matches would be especially interesting with entire armies emerging to fight and submerging as they vie for tactical advantage.
AAAANNDD this increases macro! Zerg players can simply rely on rally points to get their forces to the battle field OR they can have them spawn at the hatchery burrow and speed crawl to the front lines on a creep highway. To do this the player must return to his base, select the units, burrow them, then order them to the edge of the creep. To take full advantage of this we want to make it easier for zerg players to create creep highways to the battlefield.
This can be done by a creep growing mechanic whereby a player selects a creep generating buidling (again requires player to return to base), gains a creep paintbrush tool and can “paint” new creep tendrils from the creep generating building into the battlefield. This allows for easy construction of creep highways. Visually creep expansion would mimic venom symbiote (Spiderman 3) locomotion.
Look for this and other creep mechanics to be more fully explored in Thesis to Increase Macro: Part 5
And congrats on a great idea Nisco!
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^^Well archerofauir ruined the idea.
OP is good though, it is very simple and is not powerful unless used very creatively. I don't think this would be an integral part of the game, but could make for some pimpest plays like flare and lockdown did.
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I like this idea as well... I'd like to see it in action.
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It´s good because it will make the Zerg signifikantly weaker off Creep. Zerg units are comperativly damaging for cost which is balanced by the fact that they can generally be shot before they can attack.
This would turn them into a supriseattackfest ala NOD exept without the suprise since the creep gives it away.
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Entering an alien's base requiring detectors sounds logical as well. Submit this to Blizz!!!
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I like this idea.
Maybe it'd also allow Zerg units to scale cliffs that way?
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On October 14 2008 09:42 Nisco wrote: Plus, I can't imagine people getting a Nydus all prepared in time to stop a force of Stalkers.
A progamer can
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i want the creep to poison non zergs who walk on the creep.
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On October 20 2008 01:40 sqwert wrote: i want the creep to poison non zergs who walk on the creep.
That would be annoying lol.
Its just like that one WC3 ROC Mission, where you have to charge the human fortress, but as long as your under the "enchantment area" your units slowly take damage. It wasn't fun, just pissed the hell out of me.
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Great idea (the burrow mechanic not poison ). I would LOVE to see this implemented.
You'd have to make sure the Zerg don't have much visibility while burrowed or across their 'creep highways' tho or the micro would become far to superior when you know exactly what enemy units are approaching.
Maybe if creep tumors still extend creep but don't give sight radius at all. So it is possible for creep to grow into the fog, and if you want to see whats on the creep you still need buildings or units.
If you also added a system similar to the Terrans radar tower so you can 'sense enemy units walking on the creep' but not see what they are until their out of the fog, then the creep would feel even more alive.
This would also change the way the enemy attempts to attack a Zerg enemy as appose to any other race, because they would either attempt to push back your creep highways using detectors and a small force to maintain map control OR try to send their assaults into your base without stepping on creep, possibly forcing them to take a longer route on the way just to avoid giving away their position.
Creep has no eyes after all and if the tumors are burrowed it make pure sense :D
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This threads getting a lot more positive feedback than I expected. (Good thing).
Lorewise, this ability would work because creep softens the ground under it.
Easy-peezy.
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 23 2008 11:42 DeCoup wrote:Great idea (the burrow mechanic not poison ). I would LOVE to see this implemented. You'd have to make sure the Zerg don't have much visibility while burrowed or across their 'creep highways' tho or the micro would become far to superior when you know exactly what enemy units are approaching. Maybe if creep tumors still extend creep but don't give sight radius at all. So it is possible for creep to grow into the fog, and if you want to see whats on the creep you still need buildings or units. If you also added a system similar to the Terrans radar tower so you can 'sense enemy units walking on the creep' but not see what they are until their out of the fog, then the creep would feel even more alive. This would also change the way the enemy attempts to attack a Zerg enemy as appose to any other race, because they would either attempt to push back your creep highways using detectors and a small force to maintain map control OR try to send their assaults into your base without stepping on creep, possibly forcing them to take a longer route on the way just to avoid giving away their position. Creep has no eyes after all and if the tumors are burrowed it make pure sense :D i love it
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This is a terrible idea because of zvz.
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On November 10 2008 16:58 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: This is a terrible idea because of zvz. You should check the date on threads before you post in them.
Bumping a thread like this is bad since there really wasn't any productive conversation going anyway. Plus there really isn't any reason meriting a bump anyway(eg new developments).
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Oh, come on. Don't get all righteous 'cuz I bumped a two week-old topic.
And really, that's a crucial issue that nobody addressed.
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On October 14 2008 09:42 Nisco wrote: It would be really creepy moving around in a Zerg base. Zerg could be crawling behind your back right now, ready to spring out.
Anyway, how do you guys think this would work?
That is why u bring your obs with you, right?
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This was done in RA:Tiberium Sun. The gameplay was so god awful in that game. And not just IMO but a majority of the people that played it aswell. Mostly do to shit moving unhindered by ridges or water or other obstacles by way of tunneling.
Sounds like the 'flying' mechanic. But flying is alright since flying units can be shot at. It would be pretty silly if zealots started punching the ground.
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Don't really like the idea. just give overlords back the ability to transport and there you have it.
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