DHM Winter: Serral, Scarlett, Cyan win regionals
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia18980 Posts
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Balnazza
Germany621 Posts
Neeb really did put in the bare minimum of effort to get to the Globals, huh? :D Obviously I just mean score-wise, not saying he played bad or lazy. | ||
Tommy131313
Germany145 Posts
And Clem and Serral are really pushing each other to perfect their TvZ more and more. GGs to all the European Heros | ||
HolydaKing
21219 Posts
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Riner1212
United States336 Posts
right: lost 3-0 to maru lol. | ||
Vindicare605
United States15561 Posts
On October 21 2021 15:12 Riner1212 wrote: (Serral later said he has less trouble against Korean foes than Reynor and Clem). right: lost 3-0 to maru lol. Serral stans are just going to say "but he's beaten Maru in the past" and completely ignore the rest. Completely ignore how Serral no longer has a rigged map pool and overpowered Zerg balance meta at his advantage when he loses. Completely ignore how he had both of those things when he's faced Maru in the past. | ||
Riner1212
United States336 Posts
On October 22 2021 01:32 Vindicare605 wrote: Serral stans are just going to say "but he's beaten Maru in the past" and completely ignore the rest. Completely ignore how Serral no longer has a rigged map pool and overpowered Zerg balance meta at his advantage when he loses. Completely ignore how he had both of those things when he's faced Maru in the past. sounds like i hit a nerve lol, you seem so salty. | ||
Vindicare605
United States15561 Posts
On October 22 2021 06:22 Riner1212 wrote: sounds like i hit a nerve lol, you seem so salty. I've heard it all before is all. | ||
dysenterymd
1040 Posts
On October 21 2021 15:12 Riner1212 wrote: (Serral later said he has less trouble against Korean foes than Reynor and Clem). right: lost 3-0 to maru lol. Regardless of what you think about the Serral Maru H2H (will Maru always beat Serral going forward, will they trade series, etc) it's pretty obvious that Serral does better in season finals than regionals, seeing as he's won 3/5 of those and 1/6 DHM EUs lol. Considering how many of his high profile losses have been to those two over the past year and a half seems like a very reasonable statement from Serral. | ||
Poopi
France12434 Posts
On October 20 2021 23:34 Balnazza wrote: Serral winning this is bad news for Clem. I feel like once Serral has beaten Reynor, he lost his "fear" against him. If the same happens to Clem, I don't know who will challenge Serral next. Neeb really did put in the bare minimum of effort to get to the Globals, huh? :D Obviously I just mean score-wise, not saying he played bad or lazy. I think Clem will be back at an amazing TvZ level in Katowice, Serral shouldn’t be the hardest EU zerg there. On the other hand, Reynor will probably peak at Katowice and be far more difficult than Serral. Should be interesting! | ||
Balnazza
Germany621 Posts
On October 22 2021 01:32 Vindicare605 wrote: Serral stans are just going to say "but he's beaten Maru in the past" and completely ignore the rest. Completely ignore how Serral no longer has a rigged map pool and overpowered Zerg balance meta at his advantage when he loses. Completely ignore how he had both of those things when he's faced Maru in the past. Who cares about Maru? He hasn't won a GSL in nearly three years, hasn't won a DH Masters and even his last great victory (GSL Super Tournament) was nearly two years ago. At this point there are far more interesting rivalries out there than Serral vs. Maru. But if you are interested in the stats: Maru won two times against Serral (both times 3-0), but lost 4 times (2x 0-2, 1x 0-3 and 1x 1-2). Both thoses 0-2 losses where in the same year as his wins against Serral. So I don't really see how this has anything to do with balance. And before you start with map pool...in their last two matches, both tournaments used the exact same maps | ||
UnLarva
379 Posts
Vs Non-Koreans Serral is 141–40 (77.90%) in games and 61–9 (87.14%) in matches. Vs Koreans Serral is 72–41 (63.72%) in games and 26–14 (65.00%) in matches. While it's not only about a loss to Maru. This year Serral has lost matches also against random SC2 gamers like Rogue, DRG, Byun, Cure, Trap, Zest, Stats, Solar, and Dark, against some of them - several times. Maybe it is more about Serral's inner feeling when confronting Koreans than Clem or Reynor what he meant when saying "he has less trouble against Korean foes than Reynor and Clem", as statistically Koreans as a whole have been more difficult opponents than Foreigners, not including Clem and Reynor. If either of them managed to get under Serral's skin then it is about the time to finally get rid of that kind mental boogies before Katowice. Good luck. | ||
Balnazza
Germany621 Posts
Don't know if you can apply the raw statistics for his own feelings here though. I think it is save to say that the most important tournaments of the last two years (for Serral) are the DH Masters, the BlizzCon 2019 and IEM Grand Finals 2020/21. Most of the times he got eliminated in these by Clem (including the one time he didn't even qualifiy for Masters), one time by Reynor and two times by koreans (Trap and Zest). So while his overall score against koreans might be weaker than against foreigners (or rather Reynor/Clem), he actually got kicked out more often by those two than by any korean rival. Could be just seeding etc. but there seems to be atleast some merrit to the fact that he has more trouble with Reynor/Clem than with the korean elite. | ||
tigera6
2855 Posts
On October 22 2021 08:10 Balnazza wrote: Who cares about Maru? He hasn't won a GSL in nearly three years, hasn't won a DH Masters and even his last great victory (GSL Super Tournament) was nearly two years ago. At this point there are far more interesting rivalries out there than Serral vs. Maru. But if you are interested in the stats: Maru won two times against Serral (both times 3-0), but lost 4 times (2x 0-2, 1x 0-3 and 1x 1-2). Both thoses 0-2 losses where in the same year as his wins against Serral. So I don't really see how this has anything to do with balance. And before you start with map pool...in their last two matches, both tournaments used the exact same maps What is the "far more interesting rivalries out there" you are talking about? Clem vs Reynor might be one but the need more time to get the hype up. Serral vs Maru is one that we all wanted to see years ago at their absolute best but never got to it because of Maru "weakness" in TvP. It take 2 years till now where we can say that Serral and Maru is at the top of their game again. In fact, Serral ranked No.1 and Maru ranked No.2 on the current Aligulac kinda speak out for the hype, not that I really agree to whole Aligulac ranking to begin with. Somehow you imply that Maru is "washed up" is pretty interesting, the same way as people think Serral was "washed up" before his recent DH tournament win. The idea that "either you are a champion or you are trash" is simply not correct, just look at Zest, he hasnt won shit for years, but most people including me believe he is the best Protoss out there and he showed that by beating Serral up convincingly last night. | ||
UnLarva
379 Posts
I hope only good for Serral, Reynor, and Clem, and also other Europeans for them being able to continue slowly rise against Koreans traditional near total dominance. But if I have to pick between Serral, Reynor, and Clem (or any other player) then it's Serral. I also hope that bracket luck would not ever seed these three against each others in early phases of a tournament. Tournaments are generally more entertaining if they all are in until last matches. | ||
TheOneAboveU
Germany3367 Posts
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Balnazza
Germany621 Posts
On October 23 2021 13:54 tigera6 wrote: What is the "far more interesting rivalries out there" you are talking about? Clem vs Reynor might be one but the need more time to get the hype up. Serral vs Maru is one that we all wanted to see years ago at their absolute best but never got to it because of Maru "weakness" in TvP. It take 2 years till now where we can say that Serral and Maru is at the top of their game again. In fact, Serral ranked No.1 and Maru ranked No.2 on the current Aligulac kinda speak out for the hype, not that I really agree to whole Aligulac ranking to begin with. Somehow you imply that Maru is "washed up" is pretty interesting, the same way as people think Serral was "washed up" before his recent DH tournament win. The idea that "either you are a champion or you are trash" is simply not correct, just look at Zest, he hasnt won shit for years, but most people including me believe he is the best Protoss out there and he showed that by beating Serral up convincingly last night. I will say upfront, that I don't particurlarly like Maru, so obviously I'm not the gold standard for judging him. And I completly agree with your statement that there is more instead of "hero or zero". The Serral/Maru thing was (atleast for me) at their height 2018, when both of them dominated their respective "half of the world". They were definetly the two best players of that year. But since they rarely if ever clashed, it became more of a pipe dream than a rivalry. As of now though, I'm more interested in for example Serral vs. Clem. Because a rivalry without stakes is just not that interesting for me and Serral and Maru don't really battle for anything at the moment, since Maru really doesn't have anything to bring to the table (title-wise, don't get me wrong please). "Serral vs. Maru" was, in the past, the match about the GOAT title. Now it feels like the GOAT just plays against an elite korean. That is cool, but there are other korean elite players, so Maru doesn't stand out. | ||
Gina
241 Posts
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tigera6
2855 Posts
On October 23 2021 21:43 Balnazza wrote: I will say upfront, that I don't particurlarly like Maru, so obviously I'm not the gold standard for judging him. And I completly agree with your statement that there is more instead of "hero or zero". The Serral/Maru thing was (atleast for me) at their height 2018, when both of them dominated their respective "half of the world". They were definetly the two best players of that year. But since they rarely if ever clashed, it became more of a pipe dream than a rivalry. As of now though, I'm more interested in for example Serral vs. Clem. Because a rivalry without stakes is just not that interesting for me and Serral and Maru don't really battle for anything at the moment, since Maru really doesn't have anything to bring to the table (title-wise, don't get me wrong please). "Serral vs. Maru" was, in the past, the match about the GOAT title. Now it feels like the GOAT just plays against an elite korean. That is cool, but there are other korean elite players, so Maru doesn't stand out. Maru still has the 2nd most title in KR scene after Rogue and the best Terran in KR, hes not just another great KR Terran like you implied, you clearly under-estimate his achievement and performance. If you watch his performance in Asus Rog, where he obliberate pretty much everyone, including the best from EU and KR, then there is every reason to hype about the match. And you automatically give Serral the GOAT for winning a couple more tournament on the same level with Super Tournament is just pure bias imo. Serral is just not as dominating as he did in 2018, either by the meta or many nerf on Zerg, and his accomplishment has not been as high as those "GOAT" standard that you spoke of. If you rank 2020-2021 accomplishment as a whole, Serral and Maru are barely in top 5, or maybe top 10, and neither are really dominating the world of SC2 like they did in 2018. That still make the matchup interesting given the recent performance. | ||
Balnazza
Germany621 Posts
But then again, that makes Serral vs. Maru not that special at the moment. It is just one of those top-contender matches, but nothing else stands out. While for example Serral vs. Clem is a clear rivalry about dominance outside of korea. It also helps that they clash a lot. I think just in 2021 Serral and Clem played more against each other than Serral and Maru ever did. Honestly I'm not even sure if you can call Serral vs. Maru a rivalry anymore. They play each other very rarely, they obviously don't hate each other (so there is no "social rivalry" either) and they don't really have anything to rival about in the first place. It is a good, solid match between two outstanding players, but that is about it. | ||
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