• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 12:41
CEST 18:41
KST 01:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE9Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b7IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly4Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"7ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!41
StarCraft 2
General
Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE Terran or Protoss Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b 3kb/s downloading patch..... are we back to 1998? Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly INu's Battles#18 - Cure, herO, Rogue & ByuN
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Industrial Park New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate
External Content
Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion screpdb: new Starcraft reporting tool ASL22 General Discussion ASL 22 Proposed Map Pool Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2v2v2v2 Tournament Star Con San Diego 2026 Escore Tournament - Season 3
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvT advise for noobs
Other Games
General Games
ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread How to buy a book - shipping from Korea to Europe
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2026-27 Football Thread placeholder 2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Games, Hormones, and "Dark" …
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10089 users

DHM Fall Finals - Group C Preview (2021)

Forum Index > SC2 General
2 CommentsPost a Reply

DHM Fall Finals - Group C Preview (2021)

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
September 9th, 2021 06:01 GMT

DreamHack Masters: Fall 2021 - Season Finals

By Poopi

This group seems pretty straightforward on paper. #1 Korean seed Dark should get out in first place, while sole Oceania seed Probe should get eliminated in last place. That would leave Time (#1 China) and Scarlett (#2 NA) to battle it out for the 2nd spot in the playoffs.

But if StarCraft always went the way it was supposed to on paper, it wouldn’t be so fun, would it? Let’s dig a bit and see how realistic an upset is, and if it’s worth making a prediction that runs against conventional wisdom.

DreamHack Masters Fall


Group C Preview: Dark, Probe, Scarlett, TIME

Match time: Thursday, Sep 09 2:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)

Dark isn't only coming in as the favorite in this group, but also as one of the favorites to win the entire Season Finals. As the reigning GSL champion, and participant in the playoffs of the present GSL season, the DPG Zerg is looking as sharp as ever. While his 2-3 overall map record against Bunny during the Code S RO16 could be marked as a small demerit, it might end up being seen as more of a credit to Bunny depending on how the next couple of weeks go.

Dark's initial match against Probe is the biggest mismatch of this entire tournament, and all the fans will know that without looking at any statistics. However, it’s always more entertaining to put numbers on things. Sometimes they pay off when there's a ludicrous upset, as MBCGame learned when they gave Bisu a 2.69% chance of beating Savior in the 2007 MSL finals. More than 1000 Aligulac.com rating points separate Dark and Probe, giving our Zerg player nearly a 95% chance of winning. Ergo, if Probe wins, we can surmise that he's at least half as good as Bisu.

It will be interesting to see if Probe tries to cheese out Dark, or does his best before dying an honorable macro death. Alas, Probe might not have much agency in this at all, as Dark is prone to cheesing out his opponents—regardless of their relative stature.

The more interesting question of the group might be if anyone can stop Dark from going 4-0. According to Aligulac, Scarlett has the best chance at upsetting Dark at around 25%. However, the grim reality is that she's never beaten him in seven prior encounters, and has only ever won a single map against him (the head to head is 13-1 in favor of Dark overall). TIME is even less favored according to Aligulac with around a 13% chance of winning, but at least he was able to beat Dark once in ten matches for a slightly more respectable map record of 8W–21L (27.59% win-rate). Given that Dark is not known to perform particularly badly online, these statistics should be a pretty accurate depiction of the reality: Dark will top his group, and might lose a map to TIME if the Chinese terran were to beat Scarlett in their first match of the day.

The real battle then, will be for second place, which is likely to be contested between former Newbee teammates TIME and Scarlett. To give Probe some credit, the prior Summer Season Finals hardly gave him a stage to showcase his skills, as he went up against Maru (runner-up) and Reynor (champion) in consecutive series. TIME and Scarlett should give him a chance to play more even matches, and demonstrate exactly why he's the 3-time OCE champion. Also, there probably isn't a TON of pressure from the Australian community for him to do well, and we've heard plenty of stories about how having nothing to lose can result in better performance. But, ultimately, given the track record of the OCE region in big internationals, it will be an incredible long shot for Probe to make it to the playoffs.

In any case, Aligulac sees Scarlett and TIME as evenly matched due to their TvZ ratings being almost identical at around 2600. While Scarlett has a significant head-to-head advantage of 26W–11L (70.27%), she scored many of her wins before TIME really broke out in WCS/EPT tournaments. Their latest match was a 1-1 tie in the World Team League, and prior to that, TIME defeated her 2-0 in a TSL qualifier.

TIME's raw TvZ numbers in 2021 are actually shockingly poor compared to his Aligulac.com rating, with barely a 35% map win-rate. However, he faced almost solely top level Zergs such as Rogue, Dark and Solar, and given the same slate of games, it would be hard for all but the best EPT Terrans to do any better. Expectedly, Scarlett has a far better ZvT record in 2021 compared to TIME: 53W–30L (63.86%) in games and 24W–12L (66.67%) in matches. The reason is obvious: she faced worse opponents on average. She basically dominated every Terran from NA region, while losing to everyone around the level of uThermal, Kelazhur and SpeCial. In the end, I favor TIME, who had his rating deflated by losing to top zergs without being able to farm a lot of lower level Zergs to raise his rating.

While I give TIME the edge, I'm a bit worried about how the rematch curse might affect him. Going off anecdotal evidence, momentum really does seem to matter in GSL-style groups. If TIME beats Scarlett initially but then gets utterly demolished by Dark, will he be in sound mental shape against a Scarlett who is likely to have built some momentum by beating Probe? (Not to mention the extra scouting data she would have from Dark vs TIME). I'm still giving the nod to TIME, but it's far from a sure thing.

Predictions: Dark and TIME to advance.




Writer: Poopi
Editor: Wax
Photos: DreamHack
Statistics: Liquipedia

Facebook Twitter Reddit
TL+ Member
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
876 Posts
September 09 2021 09:56 GMT
#2
So much love for scarlett, but as for the two last groups i would be surprised of an unexpected result...

The only surprise would come from group D, I hope Zoun can defeat Trap for the second place.
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4967 Posts
September 09 2021 12:51 GMT
#3
I have always been a fan of Scarlett, specially when she was one of the few foreigners that could put a fight vs the koreans back in the day. Even though nowadays she is not as impressive, you know what they say: class is permanent and cheese is eternal. Let's see how it all ends up.
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Patches Events
16:00
Patch Clash #9
RotterdaM287
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 287
RushiSC 28
SpeCial 3
BRAT_OK 0
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 6413
firebathero 815
Shuttle 748
Zeus 484
Soulkey 167
Dewaltoss 151
Hyun 59
scan(afreeca) 53
ToSsGirL 46
Killer 23
[ Show more ]
Sacsri 23
Rock 22
JYJ 22
soO 16
zelot 16
Hm[arnc] 15
Free 13
SilentControl 12
IntoTheRainbow 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 8
Mong 1
Dota 2
Gorgc5891
qojqva2097
Dendi901
420jenkins292
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
ScreaM1937
x6flipin706
edward48
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King111
Other Games
FrodaN2607
Serral1725
hiko825
Beastyqt641
Mlord513
ceh9434
crisheroes305
DeMusliM198
XaKoH 95
ArmadaUGS79
QueenE61
SteadfastSC48
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2860
• WagamamaTV468
League of Legends
• Nemesis3555
• TFBlade1085
Other Games
• Shiphtur323
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
16h 19m
CrankTV Team League
18h 19m
OSC
20h 19m
OSC
1d
Replay Cast
1d 7h
Escore
1d 17h
CrankTV Team League
1d 18h
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
2 days
ByuN vs SHIN
Solar vs Lambo
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Clem vs Serral
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Summer Champion…
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
PiGosaur Cup
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-28
SCTL 2026 Spring
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W5
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
Escore Tournament S3: W8
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Light Tournament 2026
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.