• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 06:19
CET 12:19
KST 20:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview7RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4) BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced
Tourneys
RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Tenacious Turtle Tussle 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night
Brood War
General
[BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle Let's talk about Metropolis
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 1 - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Fighting Spirit mining rates Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1599 users

DHM Fall Finals - Group C Preview (2021)

Forum Index > SC2 General
2 CommentsPost a Reply

DHM Fall Finals - Group C Preview (2021)

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
September 9th, 2021 06:01 GMT

DreamHack Masters: Fall 2021 - Season Finals

By Poopi

This group seems pretty straightforward on paper. #1 Korean seed Dark should get out in first place, while sole Oceania seed Probe should get eliminated in last place. That would leave Time (#1 China) and Scarlett (#2 NA) to battle it out for the 2nd spot in the playoffs.

But if StarCraft always went the way it was supposed to on paper, it wouldn’t be so fun, would it? Let’s dig a bit and see how realistic an upset is, and if it’s worth making a prediction that runs against conventional wisdom.

DreamHack Masters Fall


Group C Preview: Dark, Probe, Scarlett, TIME

Match time: Thursday, Sep 09 2:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)

Dark isn't only coming in as the favorite in this group, but also as one of the favorites to win the entire Season Finals. As the reigning GSL champion, and participant in the playoffs of the present GSL season, the DPG Zerg is looking as sharp as ever. While his 2-3 overall map record against Bunny during the Code S RO16 could be marked as a small demerit, it might end up being seen as more of a credit to Bunny depending on how the next couple of weeks go.

Dark's initial match against Probe is the biggest mismatch of this entire tournament, and all the fans will know that without looking at any statistics. However, it’s always more entertaining to put numbers on things. Sometimes they pay off when there's a ludicrous upset, as MBCGame learned when they gave Bisu a 2.69% chance of beating Savior in the 2007 MSL finals. More than 1000 Aligulac.com rating points separate Dark and Probe, giving our Zerg player nearly a 95% chance of winning. Ergo, if Probe wins, we can surmise that he's at least half as good as Bisu.

It will be interesting to see if Probe tries to cheese out Dark, or does his best before dying an honorable macro death. Alas, Probe might not have much agency in this at all, as Dark is prone to cheesing out his opponents—regardless of their relative stature.

The more interesting question of the group might be if anyone can stop Dark from going 4-0. According to Aligulac, Scarlett has the best chance at upsetting Dark at around 25%. However, the grim reality is that she's never beaten him in seven prior encounters, and has only ever won a single map against him (the head to head is 13-1 in favor of Dark overall). TIME is even less favored according to Aligulac with around a 13% chance of winning, but at least he was able to beat Dark once in ten matches for a slightly more respectable map record of 8W–21L (27.59% win-rate). Given that Dark is not known to perform particularly badly online, these statistics should be a pretty accurate depiction of the reality: Dark will top his group, and might lose a map to TIME if the Chinese terran were to beat Scarlett in their first match of the day.

The real battle then, will be for second place, which is likely to be contested between former Newbee teammates TIME and Scarlett. To give Probe some credit, the prior Summer Season Finals hardly gave him a stage to showcase his skills, as he went up against Maru (runner-up) and Reynor (champion) in consecutive series. TIME and Scarlett should give him a chance to play more even matches, and demonstrate exactly why he's the 3-time OCE champion. Also, there probably isn't a TON of pressure from the Australian community for him to do well, and we've heard plenty of stories about how having nothing to lose can result in better performance. But, ultimately, given the track record of the OCE region in big internationals, it will be an incredible long shot for Probe to make it to the playoffs.

In any case, Aligulac sees Scarlett and TIME as evenly matched due to their TvZ ratings being almost identical at around 2600. While Scarlett has a significant head-to-head advantage of 26W–11L (70.27%), she scored many of her wins before TIME really broke out in WCS/EPT tournaments. Their latest match was a 1-1 tie in the World Team League, and prior to that, TIME defeated her 2-0 in a TSL qualifier.

TIME's raw TvZ numbers in 2021 are actually shockingly poor compared to his Aligulac.com rating, with barely a 35% map win-rate. However, he faced almost solely top level Zergs such as Rogue, Dark and Solar, and given the same slate of games, it would be hard for all but the best EPT Terrans to do any better. Expectedly, Scarlett has a far better ZvT record in 2021 compared to TIME: 53W–30L (63.86%) in games and 24W–12L (66.67%) in matches. The reason is obvious: she faced worse opponents on average. She basically dominated every Terran from NA region, while losing to everyone around the level of uThermal, Kelazhur and SpeCial. In the end, I favor TIME, who had his rating deflated by losing to top zergs without being able to farm a lot of lower level Zergs to raise his rating.

While I give TIME the edge, I'm a bit worried about how the rematch curse might affect him. Going off anecdotal evidence, momentum really does seem to matter in GSL-style groups. If TIME beats Scarlett initially but then gets utterly demolished by Dark, will he be in sound mental shape against a Scarlett who is likely to have built some momentum by beating Probe? (Not to mention the extra scouting data she would have from Dark vs TIME). I'm still giving the nod to TIME, but it's far from a sure thing.

Predictions: Dark and TIME to advance.




Writer: Poopi
Editor: Wax
Photos: DreamHack
Statistics: Liquipedia

Facebook Twitter Reddit
TL+ Member
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
870 Posts
September 09 2021 09:56 GMT
#2
So much love for scarlett, but as for the two last groups i would be surprised of an unexpected result...

The only surprise would come from group D, I hope Zoun can defeat Trap for the second place.
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4958 Posts
September 09 2021 12:51 GMT
#3
I have always been a fan of Scarlett, specially when she was one of the few foreigners that could put a fight vs the koreans back in the day. Even though nowadays she is not as impressive, you know what they say: class is permanent and cheese is eternal. Let's see how it all ends up.
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
04:30
2025 Offline Finals
Classic vs herOLIVE!
Tasteless1795
Crank 1434
RotterdaM633
IndyStarCraft 303
CranKy Ducklings97
3DClanTV 90
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 1795
Crank 1434
RotterdaM 633
IndyStarCraft 303
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 12584
Sea 5002
Calm 2931
Horang2 1505
Hyuk 970
Bisu 745
Jaedong 657
Sharp 597
actioN 380
Stork 348
[ Show more ]
Killer 218
EffOrt 214
Last 197
firebathero 192
ZerO 124
Pusan 102
Free 76
sorry 62
Dewaltoss 60
Shine 47
Mong 37
Aegong 31
Sacsri 27
Sea.KH 21
ajuk12(nOOB) 16
Movie 10
Dota 2
singsing2544
Dendi654
XcaliburYe551
League of Legends
JimRising 400
C9.Mang0395
Counter-Strike
x6flipin122
Super Smash Bros
Westballz27
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor189
Other Games
summit1g8862
FrodaN1229
B2W.Neo662
XaKoH 173
TKL 98
Mew2King79
ZerO(Twitch)17
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
CasterMuse 22
lovetv 7
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH140
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2112
League of Legends
• Stunt558
Other Games
• Scarra185
Upcoming Events
WardiTV 2025
1h 41m
herO vs ShoWTimE
SHIN vs herO
Clem vs herO
SHIN vs Clem
SHIN vs ShoWTimE
Clem vs ShoWTimE
IPSL
5h 41m
Sziky vs JDConan
BSL 21
8h 41m
Tech vs Cross
Bonyth vs eOnzErG
Replay Cast
21h 41m
Wardi Open
1d
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 5h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 22h
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
SC Evo League
6 days
BSL 21
6 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Revival: Season 3
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
RSL Offline Finals
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.