• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:24
CEST 21:24
KST 04:24
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-63PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August)8Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE15Weekly Cups (July 20-26): Early returns on 5.0.16b8IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly5
StarCraft 2
General
Life's Huge Gambling Spree After IEM Katowice 2014 Neeb returns to progaming; rejoins ONSYDE SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 1/8 Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL II announced - $10,000 prize pool, Dec 5-6 PIG STY FESTIVAL 8.0! (13 - 23 August) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 536 Railroad Switch The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation
Brood War
General
ASL22 General Discussion Making an Online Broodwar Manager Game BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion BW Drama: Terror's Debt Incident + C9 disbanding
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues BSL LAN Party - Kraków 29-30 August - OPEN SIGNUPS
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation PvT advise for noobs
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
Artificial Intelligence Thread US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The Scarlett Fan Club The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
What is a Gamer?
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 4651 users

DHM Fall Finals - Group C Preview (2021)

Forum Index > SC2 General
2 CommentsPost a Reply

DHM Fall Finals - Group C Preview (2021)

Text byTL.net ESPORTS
September 9th, 2021 06:01 GMT

DreamHack Masters: Fall 2021 - Season Finals

By Poopi

This group seems pretty straightforward on paper. #1 Korean seed Dark should get out in first place, while sole Oceania seed Probe should get eliminated in last place. That would leave Time (#1 China) and Scarlett (#2 NA) to battle it out for the 2nd spot in the playoffs.

But if StarCraft always went the way it was supposed to on paper, it wouldn’t be so fun, would it? Let’s dig a bit and see how realistic an upset is, and if it’s worth making a prediction that runs against conventional wisdom.

DreamHack Masters Fall


Group C Preview: Dark, Probe, Scarlett, TIME

Match time: Thursday, Sep 09 2:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)

Dark isn't only coming in as the favorite in this group, but also as one of the favorites to win the entire Season Finals. As the reigning GSL champion, and participant in the playoffs of the present GSL season, the DPG Zerg is looking as sharp as ever. While his 2-3 overall map record against Bunny during the Code S RO16 could be marked as a small demerit, it might end up being seen as more of a credit to Bunny depending on how the next couple of weeks go.

Dark's initial match against Probe is the biggest mismatch of this entire tournament, and all the fans will know that without looking at any statistics. However, it’s always more entertaining to put numbers on things. Sometimes they pay off when there's a ludicrous upset, as MBCGame learned when they gave Bisu a 2.69% chance of beating Savior in the 2007 MSL finals. More than 1000 Aligulac.com rating points separate Dark and Probe, giving our Zerg player nearly a 95% chance of winning. Ergo, if Probe wins, we can surmise that he's at least half as good as Bisu.

It will be interesting to see if Probe tries to cheese out Dark, or does his best before dying an honorable macro death. Alas, Probe might not have much agency in this at all, as Dark is prone to cheesing out his opponents—regardless of their relative stature.

The more interesting question of the group might be if anyone can stop Dark from going 4-0. According to Aligulac, Scarlett has the best chance at upsetting Dark at around 25%. However, the grim reality is that she's never beaten him in seven prior encounters, and has only ever won a single map against him (the head to head is 13-1 in favor of Dark overall). TIME is even less favored according to Aligulac with around a 13% chance of winning, but at least he was able to beat Dark once in ten matches for a slightly more respectable map record of 8W–21L (27.59% win-rate). Given that Dark is not known to perform particularly badly online, these statistics should be a pretty accurate depiction of the reality: Dark will top his group, and might lose a map to TIME if the Chinese terran were to beat Scarlett in their first match of the day.

The real battle then, will be for second place, which is likely to be contested between former Newbee teammates TIME and Scarlett. To give Probe some credit, the prior Summer Season Finals hardly gave him a stage to showcase his skills, as he went up against Maru (runner-up) and Reynor (champion) in consecutive series. TIME and Scarlett should give him a chance to play more even matches, and demonstrate exactly why he's the 3-time OCE champion. Also, there probably isn't a TON of pressure from the Australian community for him to do well, and we've heard plenty of stories about how having nothing to lose can result in better performance. But, ultimately, given the track record of the OCE region in big internationals, it will be an incredible long shot for Probe to make it to the playoffs.

In any case, Aligulac sees Scarlett and TIME as evenly matched due to their TvZ ratings being almost identical at around 2600. While Scarlett has a significant head-to-head advantage of 26W–11L (70.27%), she scored many of her wins before TIME really broke out in WCS/EPT tournaments. Their latest match was a 1-1 tie in the World Team League, and prior to that, TIME defeated her 2-0 in a TSL qualifier.

TIME's raw TvZ numbers in 2021 are actually shockingly poor compared to his Aligulac.com rating, with barely a 35% map win-rate. However, he faced almost solely top level Zergs such as Rogue, Dark and Solar, and given the same slate of games, it would be hard for all but the best EPT Terrans to do any better. Expectedly, Scarlett has a far better ZvT record in 2021 compared to TIME: 53W–30L (63.86%) in games and 24W–12L (66.67%) in matches. The reason is obvious: she faced worse opponents on average. She basically dominated every Terran from NA region, while losing to everyone around the level of uThermal, Kelazhur and SpeCial. In the end, I favor TIME, who had his rating deflated by losing to top zergs without being able to farm a lot of lower level Zergs to raise his rating.

While I give TIME the edge, I'm a bit worried about how the rematch curse might affect him. Going off anecdotal evidence, momentum really does seem to matter in GSL-style groups. If TIME beats Scarlett initially but then gets utterly demolished by Dark, will he be in sound mental shape against a Scarlett who is likely to have built some momentum by beating Probe? (Not to mention the extra scouting data she would have from Dark vs TIME). I'm still giving the nod to TIME, but it's far from a sure thing.

Predictions: Dark and TIME to advance.




Writer: Poopi
Editor: Wax
Photos: DreamHack
Statistics: Liquipedia

Facebook Twitter Reddit
TL+ Member
Vision_
Profile Joined September 2018
876 Posts
September 09 2021 09:56 GMT
#2
So much love for scarlett, but as for the two last groups i would be surprised of an unexpected result...

The only surprise would come from group D, I hope Zoun can defeat Trap for the second place.
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4967 Posts
September 09 2021 12:51 GMT
#3
I have always been a fan of Scarlett, specially when she was one of the few foreigners that could put a fight vs the koreans back in the day. Even though nowadays she is not as impressive, you know what they say: class is permanent and cheese is eternal. Let's see how it all ends up.
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
15:55
FSL TeamLeagueFINALS ST vs PTB
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
NeuroSwarm 132
BRAT_OK 77
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 15151
Calm 3723
Soulkey 295
firebathero 218
ggaemo 139
actioN 119
Hyun 36
Rock 18
Dota 2
Gorgc15297
LuMiX1
Counter-Strike
minikerr114
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu354
Other Games
FrodaN2229
Mlord1471
B2W.Neo686
uThermal445
TKL 358
ToD264
RotterdaM135
Hui .131
XaKoH 109
ROOTCatZ104
Chillindude14
MindelVK4
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick822
StarCraft 2
angryscii 18
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• printf 94
• StrangeGG 68
• davetesta33
• Kozan
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix22
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV511
League of Legends
• Jankos1704
• Nemesis1629
Other Games
• Shiphtur491
Upcoming Events
PiG Sty Festival
4h 36m
Afreeca Starleague
8h 36m
RSL Revival
13h 36m
Clem vs Serral
herO vs Rogue
WardiTV Summer Champion…
16h 36m
WardiTV Weekly
1d 15h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
PiGosaur Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S3: W5
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
RSL Revival: Season 6
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026

Upcoming

ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
K-JUNGMAN
Acropolis #5
Escore Tournament S3: W6
Escore Tournament S3: W7
Escore Tournament S3: W8
CSLAN 4
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Thunderpick World Champ.
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.