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On October 14 2019 23:52 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2019 23:28 Fango wrote:On October 13 2019 10:50 BisuDagger wrote: Dark is player of the year imo. Especially if he wins blizzcon. Crucial ZvZ losses are the only reason why he doesn't have more golds. If he can focus strictly on that matchup then he will be the global champion. He should have been player of the year in 2016 as well but TL seems to weight the blizzcon title very heavily. Although they didn't give POTY to Rogue in 2017, who by 2016/2018 standards would have won it as well. As far as this year goes, he definitely wins WeSG, GSL vs The World, and GSL season 3 if not for his ZvZ. Lol, just no. AT WESG, Zerg had no real answer to Terran's nukespam in the lategame, Inno would have won that title anyway. Dark was eliminated in the ro16 at GSL vs the World, there is no way he "definitely" wins it. Given Trap's PvZ, Dark would have most likely beaten him again in the finals. You can't be serious with this one. Do you really have the mindset that because Serral lost to INno that any other zerg would?
"no real answer to terran's nukespam" where the hell is this coming from? The only game at WeSG that even went to the lategame Serral won. Dark even 3-0'd INno in the WeSG Korea qualifiers, and also won his last 8 series against INno. While INno has lost almost every high profile TvZ this year outside of vs Serral.
As for GSL vs the World, imagine thinking Dark wouldn't beat TIME and Neeb....
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On October 15 2019 12:13 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2019 23:52 Xain0n wrote:On October 14 2019 23:28 Fango wrote:On October 13 2019 10:50 BisuDagger wrote: Dark is player of the year imo. Especially if he wins blizzcon. Crucial ZvZ losses are the only reason why he doesn't have more golds. If he can focus strictly on that matchup then he will be the global champion. He should have been player of the year in 2016 as well but TL seems to weight the blizzcon title very heavily. Although they didn't give POTY to Rogue in 2017, who by 2016/2018 standards would have won it as well. As far as this year goes, he definitely wins WeSG, GSL vs The World, and GSL season 3 if not for his ZvZ. Lol, just no. AT WESG, Zerg had no real answer to Terran's nukespam in the lategame, Inno would have won that title anyway. Dark was eliminated in the ro16 at GSL vs the World, there is no way he "definitely" wins it. Given Trap's PvZ, Dark would have most likely beaten him again in the finals. You can't be serious with this one. Do you really have the mindset that because Serral lost to INno that any other zerg would? "no real answer to terran's nukespam" where the hell is this coming from? The only game at WeSG that even went to the lategame Serral won. Dark even 3-0'd INno in the WeSG Korea qualifiers, and also won his last 8 series against INno. While INno has lost almost every high profile TvZ this year outside of vs Serral. As for GSL vs the World, imagine thinking Dark wouldn't beat TIME and Neeb....
Serral's has 58.62% (62.69% overall) ZvT win rate against Koreans offline from beginning of this year while Dark has 71.1% ZvT winrate (68.80% overall) in same period. Serral did have tougher Korean opponents but 12% difference is very significant. Rogue has 67.65% vs-Korean offline winrate this year too and 66.67% in ZvT (although he only played 27 ZvT games). Serral is still the favourite to win and his odds of doing so are probably close to as good as in 2018. However, I would say the Korean playing field this year is a lot more level so there are more competitors that will give him a run for his money.
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[QUOTE]On October 15 2019 12:27 Anc13nt wrote: [QUOTE]On October 15 2019 12:13 Fango wrote: [QUOTE]On October 14 2019 23:52 Xain0n wrote: [QUOTE]On October 14 2019 23:28 Fango wrote: [QUOTE]On October 13 2019 10:50 BisuDagger wrote: Dark is player of the year imo. Especially if he wins blizzcon. Crucial ZvZ losses are the only reason why he doesn't have more golds. If he can focus strictly on that matchup then he will be the global champion.[/QUOTE] He should have been player of the year in 2016 as well but TL seems to weight the blizzcon title very heavily. Although they didn't give POTY to Rogue in 2017, who by 2016/2018 standards would have won it as well.
As far as this year goes, he definitely wins WeSG, GSL vs The World, and GSL season 3 if not for his ZvZ. [/QUOTE]
Lol, just no. AT WESG, Zerg had no real answer to Terran's nukespam in the lategame, Inno would have won that title anyway. Dark was eliminated in the ro16 at GSL vs the World, there is no way he "definitely" wins it. Given Trap's PvZ, Dark would have most likely beaten him again in the finals. [/QUOTE] You can't be serious with this one. Do you really have the mindset that because Serral lost to INno that any other zerg would?
"no real answer to terran's nukespam" where the hell is this coming from? The only game at WeSG that even went to the lategame Serral won. Dark even 3-0'd INno in the WeSG Korea qualifiers, and also won his last 8 series against INno. While INno has lost almost every high profile TvZ this year outside of vs Serral.
As for GSL vs the World, imagine thinking Dark wouldn't beat TIME and Neeb....
Serral's has 58.62% (62.69% overall) ZvT win rate against Koreans offline from beginning of this year while Dark has 71.1% ZvT winrate (68.80% overall) in same period. Serral did have tougher Korean opponents but 12% difference is very significant. I think Dark would have beaten INnoVation 4-2 in WESG finals tbh, especially considering he 3-0'd him in the qualifiers.
[QUOTE/] It makes very good sense that Dark should have stronger ZvT and ZvP(to a lesser degree) for the same reason that Serral has stronger ZvZ. Its the strength of their competiton based on region lock. Imagine trying to practice for ZvT as Serral..or even ZvZ as Dark(to a lesser degree). Theres maybe 1 or 2 players Dark can go to getting good work and its not Serral level...its even worse for Serral - there is no one on Eu that can even be put in the same class as Maru or Inno when hes in form. I would honestly be curious what he does. Its like no one pointed out that region lock will slow the overall evolution of the game or something...darwin who?
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Between IEM Katowice and Super Tournament I, in ZvT Dark beat Bunny and Cure and lost to Maru and Gumiho; not exactly the unstoppable juggernaut in the matchup he usually is. Inno was on point at WESG, I think he would have won but, in any of case, Dark winning wouldn't have been a foregone conclusion as you all seem to be persuaded of.
Does your mental exercise consist of removing Serral or giving Dark an autowin over him? In the first case, Dark should have defeated Classic at GSL vs the World, not an easy task; if you choose the second option, I agree he would most likely have beaten TIME(whose TvZ was on fire in August) and Neeb.
Dark being better than Serral in ZvT and ZvP because of the environment would indeed make perfect sense. However, how would you explain Serral having by far the best ZvP in the world last year when he was dominating? I understand why you guys think Dark's ZvT is superior(I am less impressed by it this year, look at the series against Keen and Fantasy for example) but I fail to see why you consider his ZvP to be better. Because he defeated Stats once?
As for koreans fielded at BlizzCon being scarier this year(for Serral, especially), I don't think so. Maru is significantly worse than last year, the same goes for Stats(even if he fares better against Serral); Zerg are stronger, Dark and Rogue are indeed scarier(but Serral should have the upper hand anyway in a mirror) while soO seems out of shape. Protoss are struggling this patch so while Trap and herO should probably be scarier now than sOs and Zest last year, their chances appear to be slim. Classic's 2019 was arguably better than his 2018 but at the moment he doesn't look scarier than he was last year. TY seemed definitely stronger in 2018.
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''If there's a chance that this year is any different, it will be because Dark is no longer the most terrifying monster in the dungeon. After suffering a shock defeat to Elazer in GSL vs. The World, Dark said he had practiced like crazy. It didn't avail against him Rogue in Code S Season 3, but he still has some time to spare before the Global Finals. Unusual as it may seem, the #1 seed from Korea enters the tournament as the underdog. I hope that this time, he can exit the tournament the hero.''
He would have exited the hero if he played T or P, but he won as the Terrifying monster, which is something.
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greatest peak in LotV history
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On November 02 2019 15:58 BerserkSword wrote: greatest peak in LotV history It's an amazing peak but greater than Maru winning 4 GSLs in a row? Not at all
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this Blizzcon surely has something with darkness
WoW with Sylvanas and Shadowlands
Diablo 4
The Dark in sc2
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On November 02 2019 16:08 Charoisaur wrote:It's an amazing peak but greater than Maru winning 4 GSLs in a row? Not at all
yeah I'd say it's on the level of Rogue and INnoVation's peak.
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As a total noob in this game and fan of Dark, I wonder what are the aspects of Dark's gameplay that make him so good at this game. It's easier to pinpoint why for players like INnovation, Maru and Serral, who have unrelenting macro, really good micro and multitasking respectively. For Dark, he just makes his opponents look pretty bad, kind of like Rogue.
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Germany3367 Posts
The Empire Strikes Back, baby!
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On November 02 2019 18:04 Anc13nt wrote: As a total noob in this game and fan of Dark, I wonder what are the aspects of Dark's gameplay that make him so good at this game. It's easier to pinpoint why for players like INnovation, Maru and Serral, who have unrelenting macro, really good micro and multitasking respectively. For Dark, he just makes his opponents look pretty bad, kind of like Rogue. He clicks fast and accurately.
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Congrats to Dark! I think even though he had been smashing Korea during the latter half of this year, a lot pf people including myself were counting him out of winning BlizzCon due to his bad record against Serral.
I guess then the answer is to win without playing a game against him
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On November 02 2019 19:49 Akio wrote:Congrats to Dark! I think even though he had been smashing Korea during the latter half of this year, a lot pf people including myself were counting him out of winning BlizzCon due to his bad record against Serral. I guess then the answer is to win without playing a game against him
Let aside the history between Dark and Serral, from what i saw today, Serral would have had no chance vs Dark if he'd won vs Reynor in the semi.
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Finland855 Posts
On November 03 2019 00:32 parksonsc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2019 19:49 Akio wrote:Congrats to Dark! I think even though he had been smashing Korea during the latter half of this year, a lot pf people including myself were counting him out of winning BlizzCon due to his bad record against Serral. I guess then the answer is to win without playing a game against him Let aside the history between Dark and Serral, from what i saw today, Serral would have had no chance vs Dark if he'd won vs Reynor in the semi.
I think a Serral vs Dark BO7 series would've been way more interesting than a Reynor vs Dark BO7 series that we ended up with. Serral usually knows how to adapt during a series. Having said that, I'm really looking forward to what Reynor will come up with next year. Possible 2020 WCS champion?
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On November 03 2019 00:32 parksonsc wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2019 19:49 Akio wrote:Congrats to Dark! I think even though he had been smashing Korea during the latter half of this year, a lot pf people including myself were counting him out of winning BlizzCon due to his bad record against Serral. I guess then the answer is to win without playing a game against him Let aside the history between Dark and Serral, from what i saw today, Serral would have had no chance vs Dark if he'd won vs Reynor in the semi.
No chance, lol. It's more like that maybe Dark would have had a real shot against Serral this time, but I'm not even sure of that.
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On November 03 2019 01:09 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2019 00:32 parksonsc wrote:On November 02 2019 19:49 Akio wrote:Congrats to Dark! I think even though he had been smashing Korea during the latter half of this year, a lot pf people including myself were counting him out of winning BlizzCon due to his bad record against Serral. I guess then the answer is to win without playing a game against him Let aside the history between Dark and Serral, from what i saw today, Serral would have had no chance vs Dark if he'd won vs Reynor in the semi. No chance, lol. It's more like that maybe Dark would have had a real shot against Serral this time, but I'm not even sure of that. Serral couldn't get through the guy that was destroyed by Dark so we will never know!
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I can't really remember or point out any mistake Dark did all way long until he grabbed the trophy, he felt untouchable. After getting so many 2nd places it's neat his efforts paid off.
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On November 02 2019 18:04 Anc13nt wrote: As a total noob in this game and fan of Dark, I wonder what are the aspects of Dark's gameplay that make him so good at this game. It's easier to pinpoint why for players like INnovation, Maru and Serral, who have unrelenting macro, really good micro and multitasking respectively. For Dark, he just makes his opponents look pretty bad, kind of like Rogue. Dark and Rogue play pretty differently but I know what you mean. Seems mostly to come down to lots of weird timings and constant aggression. His trademark baneling waddle-bys that almost never do damage, his dizzying array of mediocre win rate all ins, and random batches of ling bane pressure that never makes sense (his 55 drone ling bane against Stargate in ZvP seems to be the latest example, the random win against stats in GSL ST and loss against showtime).
It really makes the opponents hesitate to attack, since chances are good they'll end up in a dirty knife fight. And Dark is impeccable when you give him 40 drones, 3 bases, 5 queens and a bunch of ravagers hahaha. So he keeps the opponents guessing, and plays the game at his tempo. But then his late game, when in shape, is definitely one of the best (ZvZ spellcasters are probably his primary weakness), so that's also a dangerous place to be. So I think his opponents play constantly afraid but also with a timer over their heads, which forces mistakes. It doesn't feel as solid as e.g. serral, but it seems to work really well when executed well. Super esoteric style, hard to imitate or to prepare against I think
Edit: Stylistically, I think he has a bit of herO's penchant for chaos and pressure, but has a much more solid macro style to back it up
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