Community Update: August 6th
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batatm
Israel116 Posts
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hungns35
3 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland20725 Posts
On August 10 2019 12:54 batatm wrote: interesting discussion! here's my contribution: race distribution in gsl ro16 and ro8 during the last 2 years! And a fine contribution there sir. The order isn’t exactly a surprise but the raw numbers are a bit different to what I’d have guessed. Protoss is sightly lower than I would have thought, Terran a little higher, Zerg quite a bit worse. | ||
Xamo
Spain862 Posts
On August 10 2019 12:54 batatm wrote: interesting discussion! here's my contribution: race distribution in gsl ro16 and ro8 during the last 2 years! Having these numbers is nice, but the race distribution alone does not say anything about balance. Each player selects a race for personal reasons, which are not random, so in Korea there may be more Protoss pros/semipros than Terran and more Terran than Zerg. For example, in Ranking List 246 (July 31) from aligulac.com, there are 23 P, 29 T and 16 Z. List 236 (March 13) shows 33 P, 29 T, 15 Z. Looking at these two samples, it seems than there are less Zerg pros. It would be interesting to gather these over time for the last two years to compare vs your numbers - but I am too lazy for that | ||
batatm
Israel116 Posts
On August 12 2019 04:19 Xamo wrote: Having these numbers is nice, but the race distribution alone does not say anything about balance. Each player selects a race for personal reasons, which are not random, so in Korea there may be more Protoss pros/semipros than Terran and more Terran than Zerg. For example, in Ranking List 246 (July 31) from aligulac.com, there are 23 P, 29 T and 16 Z. List 236 (March 13) shows 33 P, 29 T, 15 Z. Looking at these two samples, it seems than there are less Zerg pros. It would be interesting to gather these over time for the last two years to compare vs your numbers - but I am too lazy for that that's why i chose to focus on the ro16 and ro8: when looking at this phases the total count of pro players in korea isn't as important imo, as only the absolute top representatives of each race make it this far. | ||
JoFar
31 Posts
On August 12 2019 06:39 batatm wrote: that's why i chose to focus on the ro16 and ro8: when looking at this phases the total count of pro players in korea isn't as important imo, as only the absolute top representatives of each race make it this far. Yeah, but if one race has (even more then) double the amount of Pro Players then the other (Protoss vs. Zerg in Korea), wouldn't it be a logical assumption that maybe there are also more Protoss Pro Players then Zerg Pro Players who are able to be top? And in this case ... well there are a lot of "Protoss Big Guns" who have won one or even multiple big tournaments in the past out there ... more then for Terran or especially Zerg. So for sure there maybe some imbalance regarding race destribution in Korea (same as in EU, only that there are sort of too much Zergies so it's the opposite of Korea) ... but that has nothing to do (or can be solved) with in-game balance ... The change to Chargelots would be huge, as it is a core unit. Would be similar to removing zergling speed (or nerfing by 50+ Percent) or removing combat shields for Marines (or changing stim, that there would be no longer attack speed bonus, just move speed bonus). You can't change one of them without changing something for the others. Especially as long there simply is no sign of any protoss dominance besides ONE (the last) GSL Season and maybe one or two Super Tournaments ... | ||
Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On August 12 2019 15:40 JoFar wrote: The change to Chargelots would be huge, as it is a core unit. Would be similar to removing zergling speed (or nerfing by 50+ Percent) or removing combat shields for Marines (or changing stim, that there would be no longer attack speed bonus, just move speed bonus). You can't change one of them without changing something for the others. Especially as long there simply is no sign of any protoss dominance besides ONE (the last) GSL Season and maybe one or two Super Tournaments ... Have you checked the patch history in lotv? Zergling: Slightly faster burrow and unburrow Marine: Unchanged Zealot: - Buff movement increase when charge is upgraded (2015) - Charge now deals 30 dmg on hit, previous charge movement buff reverted (2015) - Zealot charge damage reduced from 30 to 8 (2015) - Zealot movement speed increase with charge massively increased (2016) - Zealot charge upgrade cost from 200/200 to 100/100 (2017) In lotv terran and zerg core units are untouched, the zealot has gained a very big runspeed buff when charge is researched, bonus damage on its charge attack and halved the cost of the charge upgrade. I could also mention that at launch of wol zealots didn't have a guaranteed hit with charge that was patched in 1 year after wol launched, From launch the zealot has been hit with a literal bufftrain while the core units of other races has basically never been touched. (besides marine upgrade research time). On August 12 2019 15:40 JoFar wrote: You can't change one of them without changing something for the others. Well thats what they have been doing for the whole history of this game, especially in lotv. The zealot was supposed to be powerful but clunky and now its powerful and fast, they keep patching away the only weakness of the zealot. I'm not saying the nerf should have gone through, I'm actually undecided about it. Edit: In my opinion it feels like the zealot is buffed into a new role, they have been made powerful enough to strongly contribute to immortal/archon compositions. Their previous slower itterations were a lot weaker in situations when they weren't buffering for units with enough range. Colossi or disruptor, without these or air the zealot used to be kitable without archons or immortals being able to get many hits off which made those compositions a bit iffy. The buffs have strengthened those comps while also making the zealot harassments OP. | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12116 Posts
On August 10 2019 12:54 batatm wrote: interesting discussion! here's my contribution: race distribution in gsl ro16 and ro8 during the last 2 years! The GSL RO8 is fishy at best because of how the groups are created. If there would be a more fair way of the creation it would be more telling. That's why I use Ro16 from the Code S. Nice table though. | ||
showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12116 Posts
On August 12 2019 20:13 showstealer1829 wrote: Translation (Once again): Protoss removed from game. Every time they remove the Protoss from the game it doesn't work and they keep coming back and are successfull, I think your translating module needs restart, it's broken. | ||
hiroshOne
Poland424 Posts
Nerfed Infestors to the ground - dmg of IT by 50%, to the point that there are useless again...Hmmm. There is a reason why all Zergs mass Infestors against lategame of Protoss and Terran- because everything else that worked was nerfed already. Now thanks to geniuses from Blizzard, Zerg won't have valiable options vs Toss or Terran that are turtling into super lategame. JUST FUCKING GREAT! But that's not enough right? Let's just additiinally buff Carriers and Ghosts. Not only we are nerfing the only counter to T and P lategame, but we are buffing Carriers which this already nerfed Infestors were suppose to counter, and Ghosts which are hard counter vs Infestors already just to make OP mass BattleCruiser more OP. I just can't comprehend logic behind this. Why just not fix the bug which already makes IT much weaker? Or just tone down dmg lil bit. Nooooo, lets overkill nerf them to the ground and in the same time buff things which they should counter...I wonder what will Zerg do now vs Mass Carriers and Mass BCs. Just roll over and die right? And if it wasn't enough, let's give minor, meaningless nerf to OP Warprism and let's destroy early game in ZvT with buffing the most powerful upgrade in the game -STIM. At the end let's buff Overlord Speed by reducing it cost by 25/25 (LOL HAHAHAHAHA) just to let Zerg see earlier ehat is going to kill them straight. WOW Blizzard. You really do everything to destroy this game. I just wonder how long will take for u to understand that u made things worse. | ||
darklycid
3132 Posts
On August 14 2019 19:52 hiroshOne wrote: So let me get this straight. They wanted to tone down Infestors to ease Protoss in lategame vs Zerg but instead they: Nerfed Infestors to the ground - dmg of IT by 50%, to the point that there are useless again...Hmmm. There is a reason why all Zergs mass Infestors against lategame of Protoss and Terran- because everything else that worked was nerfed already. Now thanks to geniuses from Blizzard, Zerg won't have valiable options vs Toss or Terran that are turtling into super lategame. JUST FUCKING GREAT! But that's not enough right? Let's just additiinally buff Carriers and Ghosts. Not only we are nerfing the only counter to T and P lategame, but we are buffing Carriers which this already nerfed Infestors were suppose to counter, and Ghosts which are hard counter vs Infestors already just to make OP mass BattleCruiser more OP. I just can't comprehend logic behind this. Why just not fix the bug which already makes IT much weaker? Or just tone down dmg lil bit. Nooooo, lets overkill nerf them to the ground and in the same time buff things which they should counter...I wonder what will Zerg do now vs Mass Carriers and Mass BCs. Just roll over and die right? And if it wasn't enough, let's give minor, meaningless nerf to OP Warprism and let's destroy early game in ZvT with buffing the most powerful upgrade in the game -STIM. At the end let's buff Overlord Speed by reducing it cost by 25/25 (LOL HAHAHAHAHA) just to let Zerg see earlier ehat is going to kill them straight. WOW Blizzard. You really do everything to destroy this game. I just wonder how long will take for u to understand that u made things worse. Mmmmhm Zerg Tears | ||
GrandSmurf
Netherlands462 Posts
yeh. let me just add: 'let the meta settle' like zergs have been spoon feeding us since GGlord-infestor. | ||
UtherTruthBringer
43 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland20725 Posts
On August 19 2019 00:27 UtherTruthBringer wrote: Can't you guys just add new units instead of constantly making minuscule changes to the same units time and time again. Just add the reaver. Oh wait you would rather just continue to nickel and dime protoss and increase robo unit cost. My god Reavers with Warp Prism pickup, Blizzard for all our sakes can you please do this? And by all I mean for the sake of my ladder MMR | ||
Dedraterllaerau
113 Posts
On August 12 2019 16:28 Shuffleblade wrote: Have you checked the patch history in lotv? Zergling: Slightly faster burrow and unburrow Marine: Unchanged Zealot: - Buff movement increase when charge is upgraded (2015) - Charge now deals 30 dmg on hit, previous charge movement buff reverted (2015) - Zealot charge damage reduced from 30 to 8 (2015) - Zealot movement speed increase with charge massively increased (2016) - Zealot charge upgrade cost from 200/200 to 100/100 (2017) In lotv terran and zerg core units are untouched, the zealot has gained a very big runspeed buff when charge is researched, bonus damage on its charge attack and halved the cost of the charge upgrade. I could also mention that at launch of wol zealots didn't have a guaranteed hit with charge that was patched in 1 year after wol launched, From launch the zealot has been hit with a literal bufftrain while the core units of other races has basically never been touched. (besides marine upgrade research time). Well thats what they have been doing for the whole history of this game, especially in lotv. The zealot was supposed to be powerful but clunky and now its powerful and fast, they keep patching away the only weakness of the zealot. I'm not saying the nerf should have gone through, I'm actually undecided about it. Edit: In my opinion it feels like the zealot is buffed into a new role, they have been made powerful enough to strongly contribute to immortal/archon compositions. Their previous slower itterations were a lot weaker in situations when they weren't buffering for units with enough range. Colossi or disruptor, without these or air the zealot used to be kitable without archons or immortals being able to get many hits off which made those compositions a bit iffy. The buffs have strengthened those comps while also making the zealot harassments OP. The Zealot has always been trash compared to the Marine and the Zergling which is why it's being constantly buffed because it's supposed to be the backbone of the Protoss army. I'm still amazed people can't understand this unit costs 100 minerals, so when you see 5 Zealots going ham in your base it's equal to that of 20 Zerglings or 10 stimmed Marines. JUST TO PUT IT IN PERSPECTIVE FOR YOU SINCE MOST ARE NOT ABLE 2. | ||
Uni1987
Netherlands642 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2611 Posts
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hungns35
3 Posts
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gTank
Austria2259 Posts
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