WCSReynor doesn't fear him and it shows. skill-wise I don't think the other top foreigners are that much worse than Reynor.
Reynor defeats Serral 4-2 to win WCS Summer 2019
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Charoisaur
Germany12907 Posts
Reynor doesn't fear him and it shows. skill-wise I don't think the other top foreigners are that much worse than Reynor. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy2049 Posts
On July 16 2019 03:49 Charoisaur wrote: The reason Reynor is the one who threatens Serral the most is because he's confident against him. The other foreigners are shitting their pants when they play vs Serral and do way more mistakes than usual (looking at you Neeb and Showtime). Reynor doesn't fear him and it shows. skill-wise I don't think the other top foreigners are that much worse than Reynor. How comes then that Reynor reaches finals that often? He does so by regularly beating the players are basically as skilled as he is his; top european Terran don't fear Reynor and consider him just another good player but facts point towards the opposite direction. So Neeb is afraid of Serral? He is still ahead in their head to head and was on a 5-0(2-0) streak before yesterday... To threaten Serral you need enough skill to beat him consistently, attitude plays a role for sure but I think it's not pivotal as you are implying. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany12907 Posts
On July 16 2019 04:01 Xain0n wrote: How comes then that Reynor reaches finals that often? He does so by regularly beating the players are basically as skilled as he is his; top european Terran don't fear Reynor and consider him just another good player but facts point towards the opposite direction. but he also loses often to other players. HSC 0-3 to Heromarine, WESG lost to Neeb, IEM got eliminated by Creator, WCS spring qualifier lost to uthermal, HSC XVIII lost to Cure. not bad at all, but he doesn't seem to be a step above the other top europeans except for his matches against Serral. | ||
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Blazinghand
United States24965 Posts
On July 16 2019 02:07 Fran_ wrote: I still don't understand what went through his mind: "I just lost my hive and third, time to kill him". Forza Italia! :D Well, at that point, Reynor knew there was no way he could win a macro game any more, because of the various moderate-loss engagements that would happen. Basically, imagine that Reynor and Serrel continue to skirmish in this scenario. Both players lose 40 food of army, back off, and remax. Serrel can remax on good units, hive tech units, etc. Reynor is forced to re-max on whatever units he still has buildings for, while also spending resources to tech back up to Hive if he wants to re-max on good units. There's no route to victory for Reynor there. Reynor's only chance is a single decisive engagement that he wins by a large amount, fought at Serrel's base, where he can immediately follow it up by taking out multiple hatches and cutting off reinforcements. At this moment, both are at 200 food - Reynor actually has about 30 more army supply since he lost 30 drones and rebuilt them as roaches or something - and this is the only time for the rest of the game that Reynor will be on even footing with Serrel, so he tried to force a decisive engagement, succeeded, knocked out Serrels' hatches and such, and won the game. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy2049 Posts
On July 16 2019 04:09 Charoisaur wrote: but he also loses often to other players. HSC 0-3 to Heromarine, WESG lost to Neeb, IEM got eliminated by Creator, WCS spring qualifier lost to uthermal, HSC XVIII lost to Cure. not bad at all, but he doesn't seem to be a step above the other top europeans except for his matches against Serral. Reynor is not one unreachable juggernaut the way Serral is, he plays minor tournaments and he loses way more often; I would say Reynor is a primus inter pares, his WCS results are the best if we exclude Serral. | ||
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darklycid
487 Posts
On July 16 2019 04:19 Xain0n wrote: Reynor is not one unreachable juggernaut the way Serral is, he plays minor tournaments and he loses way more often; I would say Reynor is a primus inter pares, his WCS results are the best if we exclude Serral. Neeb won 3/4 WCS 2017 i'd still rank him higher than reynor in wcs. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy2049 Posts
On July 16 2019 04:34 darklycid wrote: Neeb won 3/4 WCS 2017 i'd still rank him higher than reynor in wcs. I meant only since Reynor started playing WCS. He could not even play in 2017! | ||
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Fran_
United States937 Posts
On July 16 2019 04:12 Blazinghand wrote: Well, at that point, Reynor knew there was no way he could win a macro game any more, because of the various moderate-loss engagements that would happen. Basically, imagine that Reynor and Serrel continue to skirmish in this scenario. Both players lose 40 food of army, back off, and remax. Serrel can remax on good units, hive tech units, etc. Reynor is forced to re-max on whatever units he still has buildings for, while also spending resources to tech back up to Hive if he wants to re-max on good units. There's no route to victory for Reynor there. Reynor's only chance is a single decisive engagement that he wins by a large amount, fought at Serrel's base, where he can immediately follow it up by taking out multiple hatches and cutting off reinforcements. At this moment, both are at 200 food - Reynor actually has about 30 more army supply since he lost 30 drones and rebuilt them as roaches or something - and this is the only time for the rest of the game that Reynor will be on even footing with Serrel, so he tried to force a decisive engagement, succeeded, knocked out Serrels' hatches and such, and won the game. Totally. I'm admiring the mental fortitude of being in that situation and going for it, instead of giving up on that game (as it happened to Serral vs Showtime for example). | ||
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StarcraftSquall
United States146 Posts
Now don’t misunderstand me here EU has proven that they have the most top tier players outside Korea... but they also could go to most of these events. Circuit points this year are all being earned in the EU region with the exception of Montreal: Katowice, Kiev x2 and throw in a surprise stop in Finland with two months’ notice. It’s nearly impossible for non-EU players that don’t have deep pocketed sponsors to play in these tournaments, so while I think the best players are in fact winning, the format feels very rigged for them. 👀 | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic8456 Posts
On July 16 2019 05:51 Fran_ wrote: Totally. I'm admiring the mental fortitude of being in that situation and going for it, instead of giving up on that game (as it happened to Serral vs Showtime for example). Why would he give up though? He had bigger army and some remnants of economy. It was enough to do a 1.5 of a push. This is the classic issue of a person who harasses but doesn't kill. If you do it when there's no bank - that's great. if your enemy has a bank you risk he fills the missing workers by units and at that point you're facing an army that's bigger than yours. Your only way to win then is to defend perfectly. I'm quite surprised that so many people were surprised, this is IMO very common for Protoss players in PvT who play defensively. When they go - fuck this, f2, victory awaits. It's similarish to "oh, you just killed my 2 bases and lost an army for that, how about I destroy you instead of rebuilding my bases?"  | ||
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Alejandrisha
United States5859 Posts
first trophy ceremony that made me smile since innovation smelling his 2nd place flowers. serral great sportsman, reynor so likable. | ||
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Fran_
United States937 Posts
On July 16 2019 06:46 deacon.frost wrote: Why would he give up though? He had bigger army and some remnants of economy. It was enough to do a 1.5 of a push. This is the classic issue of a person who harasses but doesn't kill. If you do it when there's no bank - that's great. if your enemy has a bank you risk he fills the missing workers by units and at that point you're facing an army that's bigger than yours. Your only way to win then is to defend perfectly. I'm quite surprised that so many people were surprised, this is IMO very common for Protoss players in PvT who play defensively. When they go - fuck this, f2, victory awaits. It's similarish to "oh, you just killed my 2 bases and lost an army for that, how about I destroy you instead of rebuilding my bases?" Why would Serral give up on game 1 vs Showtime? He still did. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany2335 Posts
On July 16 2019 10:27 Fran_ wrote: Why would Serral give up on game 1 vs Showtime? He still did. Maybe he was sure he would win anyway  The viewer numbers are a bit disappointing. Sure it's summer and a lot of people have better things to do (what the hell is even better than watching Starcraft all day??!!?? ) Still, the stops last year are even or above. I thought overall numbers would go up/ be higher this year | ||
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showstealer1829
Australia3052 Posts
On July 16 2019 03:02 UnLarva wrote: Zergs must overrule Europe first, only after then they can inject an idea to wider foreign and Korean audiences: Toss must be obliterated. With all costs. Finally, someday in a dark future people will really pick a winning race. We all can celebrate the Victory Day, when Protoss race was wiped out, and an era and the phase of the real game that will finally begin. Xel'naga will balance the struggle, and keep Protoss cemetaries tidy and beautiful. 4th race requested. Zergs don't need to overrule Europe for Toss to be wiped from the game. The Blizzard balance team are managing that just fine on their own | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic8456 Posts
On July 16 2019 23:51 showstealer1829 wrote: Zergs don't need to overrule Europe for Toss to be wiped from the game. The Blizzard balance team are managing that just fine on their own And how do you propose to fix Korea then? Where Protoss is fine... hmm, I wonder. | ||
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Starcloud
24 Posts
On July 16 2019 06:46 deacon.frost wrote: Why would he give up though? He had bigger army and some remnants of economy. It was enough to do a 1.5 of a push. This is the classic issue of a person who harasses but doesn't kill. If you do it when there's no bank - that's great. if your enemy has a bank you risk he fills the missing workers by units and at that point you're facing an army that's bigger than yours. Your only way to win then is to defend perfectly. I'm quite surprised that so many people were surprised, this is IMO very common for Protoss players in PvT who play defensively. When they go - fuck this, f2, victory awaits. It's similarish to "oh, you just killed my 2 bases and lost an army for that, how about I destroy you instead of rebuilding my bases?" God....I think im going to agree Deacon on something..... But yeah, I didnt understand the "Wow, he decides to attack !!11"- commentary at all. Even few minutes before that I said to myself, that if Reynor decides attack now he is prolly going to win it. He was already up in army supply and his army also looked more scary and bigger than Serrals. In addition when Serral decided to harass, his army at home was even smaller than that. Serral should have made 10 spines and added that supply to his army as soon as he realized that Reynor isnt defending his harass at all. There wasnt any other logical decision than to attack in Reynors case; His eco was pretty much destroyed, he managed to make more army from lost drones. Otherwise it was a nice tournament. Serral looked bit "tired" and even bored, which was bit concerning. He seems to get more frustrated easily and the GG against Showtime actually looked more like "Well Im gonna beat you anyways"-type of call, which definetly isnt good. The whole year has been bit of that same too. It seems that the last hunger to win has been absent from his play, and that affects his whole gameplay. The only time he looked as sharp as last year was the WCS Spring, where the payback for Raynor- theme seemed to bring back the Old Night King, we all have been used to seeing. It almost seems that he needs some extra motivation to bring the best out of him. Dont get me wrong, his play is still very, very good, but it seems to be missing a bit. And a bit can be a huge factor when facing the best of the best. Like others here said, Reynors advantage over others is mostly the fact that he isnt afraid to go toe to toe vs Serral and the little race advantage that he is zerg which gives him bit more surprise advantages compared to other races. Serral cant just go on autopilot-mode against him anymore which in addition tends to make even his game more erratic. Have to hope Serral gets his mojo back in the end of the year, where he confronts the Koreans again. Hopefully they can bring the motivation up to his gold standards again. | ||
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striderx2048
5 Posts
On July 16 2019 04:19 Xain0n wrote: Reynor is not one unreachable juggernaut the way Serral is, he plays minor tournaments and he loses way more often; I would say Reynor is a primus inter pares, his WCS results are the best if we exclude Serral. So Reynor is Eli Manning when he faces Serral (Tom Brady) in the Super Bowl. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany12907 Posts
On July 17 2019 09:27 Starcloud wrote: God....I think im going to agree Deacon on something..... But yeah, I didnt understand the "Wow, he decides to attack !!11"- commentary at all. Even few minutes before that I said to myself, that if Reynor decides attack now he is prolly going to win it. He was already up in army supply and his army also looked more scary and bigger than Serrals. In addition when Serral decided to harass, his army at home was even smaller than that. Serral should have made 10 spines and added that supply to his army as soon as he realized that Reynor isnt defending his harass at all. There wasnt any other logical decision than to attack in Reynors case; His eco was pretty much destroyed, he managed to make more army from lost drones. Otherwise it was a nice tournament. Serral looked bit "tired" and even bored, which was bit concerning. He seems to get more frustrated easily and the GG against Showtime actually looked more like "Well Im gonna beat you anyways"-type of call, which definetly isnt good. The whole year has been bit of that same too. It seems that the last hunger to win has been absent from his play, and that affects his whole gameplay. The only time he looked as sharp as last year was the WCS Spring, where the payback for Raynor- theme seemed to bring back the Old Night King, we all have been used to seeing. It almost seems that he needs some extra motivation to bring the best out of him. Dont get me wrong, his play is still very, very good, but it seems to be missing a bit. And a bit can be a huge factor when facing the best of the best. Like others here said, Reynors advantage over others is mostly the fact that he isnt afraid to go toe to toe vs Serral and the little race advantage that he is zerg which gives him bit more surprise advantages compared to other races. Serral cant just go on autopilot-mode against him anymore which in addition tends to make even his game more erratic. Have to hope Serral gets his mojo back in the end of the year, where he confronts the Koreans again. Hopefully they can bring the motivation up to his gold standards again. I think it was a great decision from him to not remake drones and just fill up the supply with army units but yeah, the decision to attack at the end was the only logical decision in his position. | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia233 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy2049 Posts
On July 21 2019 15:19 swarminfestor wrote: Maru should be overpowered against Serral now. I didn't know Reynor switched to Terran before WCS finals. | ||
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