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Hacks are massively prevalent since a month ago. It is now at Heart of the Swarm levels of horseshit everyday playing ladder vs these people.
But for some reason this community wants to continue to pretend it's not going on and force blizzard's hand into doing anything about it.
But can they really? If they could they would have already right? They aren't completely oblivious that this is massively happening at the moment - they just simply can't stop it, or don't have the resources or want to put the programmers on it to do anything about it.
Tbh, ever since the game went free to play hacking became way more prevalent.
Let's talk about it? As a community? No more bullshit "avilo calls everyone a hacker no one hacks" no more bullshit "hacks don't exist, it's just avilo's stream and protech whining." That shit needs to stop.
Talk about the problem. Let's get it fixed.
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On December 03 2018 08:27 avilo wrote:
No more bullshit "avilo calls everyone a hacker even when they clearly don't hack"
ftfy. the boy who cried wolf made the problem worse
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On December 03 2018 09:30 SHODAN wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2018 08:27 avilo wrote:
No more bullshit "avilo calls everyone a hacker even when they clearly don't hack" ftfy. the boy who cried wolf made the problem worse My thoughts exactly. Something definitely needs to be done about hackers, no doubt. But perhaps more attention wouldve been brought to the issue if it werent for people overmaking the claims that others were hacking while they surely werent. By falsely accusing others of hacking, all it accomplished was to detract from other valid cases of players who were indeed hacking.
Nobody should ever say that nobody has never hacked against Avilo, because some surely have. But he's also falsely claimed countless players were hacking as the reason for his losses, when theres no way in hell they did.
Kinda ironic when the person famous for calling out hackers is the same person whose helped shield them with all his baseless false accusations.
What we really need is someone who is respected across the community, whose words ring true & garner respect, to help make the case on this subject. However I'm sure Blizzard is aware of the hacks & has been for some time. We just need them to do something about them now. I'm guessing theres only so much they're prepared to do about it.
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On December 03 2018 03:19 Ben... wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 18:09 207aicila wrote:On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote:On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote:On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote:On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? " 90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1. These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them. Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away. I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away. This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao. What ProTech is talking about is in the view of a streamer. In context to hackers who target streamers, ProTech's point is definitely accurate. In that case it's easy to see that these hackers are trying to troll and get a rise out of streamers. Hence why ProTech's suggestion of not giving that kind of hacker the light of day works. That doesn't work for standard ladder hackers for non-streamers obviously unless you know specifically the person is a hacker.
Actually, I have two perspectives from playing SC1 for 12 years, and SC2 for 8 years as a streamer.
The concept is basically the same, most of the cheaters I played against in SC1 weren't really out to rank up or get better stats, they were out to simply piss you off.
Map hackers know full and well, that the further they progress, the sooner they will get caught. Take the rank #4 gm on NA, he knows anyone with half a brain will catch him cheating, and he also knows that he isn't going to get better at the game. He also knows that he won't be able to compete in WCS, so then what's the point of cheating?
To piss you off.
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Plenty of hackers out now. Just sad.
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Czech Republic12116 Posts
On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote:On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote:On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. .... This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. There's a problem. How do you want distinguish two barcodes? I leave every game against a barcode player, but that's on my level and I play unranked Also not everyone plays against the same 10 people, if you play 100 people in 2 weeks and 3 of them blatantly cheated, you need to keep a list somewhere, update it and ... well, that's annoying. And after some time it will be a VERY long list, sadly.
On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. Only if you go for a standard macro play. If you go for some aggressive opening which relies on dealing damage - then you're in a big disadvantage or you outright lose. Mechanics against cheater work only if you go for something that works no matter whether it's scouted or not
On December 03 2018 10:33 ProTech wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2018 03:19 Ben... wrote:On December 02 2018 18:09 207aicila wrote:On December 02 2018 11:01 ProTech wrote:On December 02 2018 07:40 SirPinky wrote:On December 02 2018 07:25 brickrd wrote:On December 02 2018 03:37 WeakOwl wrote: I don't believe it has anything to do with the new patch and everything to do with sc2 being f2p. Hackers are inevitable, the good thing about sc2 is map hacking has much less of an impact on the game when say compared to something like an aimbot. put a pro up against a hacker and the pro will most likely win unless the hacker is at or near a pro level already without hacks. i think you're understating the impact of hacks. yes, it's very likely pros would still take most games off of hackers based on better mechanics and game awareness, but i'm certain that ladder GMs and perhaps even pros will inevitably drop games to trash tier hackers because of the impact the hacks have. also, don't be naive enough to think that very high level players wouldn't ever use hacks. history and human nature prove otherwise. maphacking literally inflates the hacker's mechanical ability by completely erasing the APM involved in scouting (identifying tech) and spotting (positioning units and buildings to collide with enemy forces), which is a SIGNIFICANT attention sink for players at any competitive level. not every game situation can just be "muscled" by having 500 MMR on the other guy; certain game states do not allow for things to simply be outmicroed. i am a big hack skeptic who has called out players better than myself in the past (frankly, i think ive even disagreed with OP before), but i don't agree with the narrative that hacks "just don't matter that much if you're good." it's like saying if you work hard enough you'll automatically get rich. just not true, and something people say because they don't feel like addressing a problem. To your point, I think more detrimental than losing the game to a hacker, is the question of doubt that goes through a players mind after a loss: Like "What did I do wrong?" "Was it obvious what I was going?" "Should I not use that build anymore, since it was so grossly hard countered?" High level players, who use hacks, are very good at concealing them. Obviously the replay above was a blatant hack, but you have to question how hacks have impeded players from trying new builds after something fails miserably to a hacker (which they may not know is a hacker). Many times, myself included, think a replay looks fishy but write is off to luck or something YOU did wrong. Hacking not only destroys the game but also stifles player growth and experimentation. If you want to understand the cheater psyche, then you should look at the " why are they cheating? " 90% of players who use map hack like this, are just trying to get a rise out of you. I don't know what rank this was, but based on the play-style of the hacker in this game i'd say M3~M1. These players, who cheat at that level, are just trying to piss you off. That said, the best way to deal with it is simply leave the game, and any future games you play against them. Yes you are the victim, yes it isn't fair. However if everyone operated under that ideology most cheaters would simply go away. I've been toying around with that idea on my stream by muting the in-game sound, and not using an auto-scene switcher and i've noticed that the majority of people who were harassing me have gone away. This is why I think simply leaving the game, and not recognizing them as a player is the best way to go about it, since blizzard obviously isn't going to do anything about the cheating. I mean look at the rank #4 GM on NA currently. Got completely busted so many different times on YouTube, twitch, etc and they never did anything about it. Not gonna lie, claiming that 90% of maphackers are doing it to piss people off seems like a pretty self-absorbed thing to believe. In my experience people who cheat in online games are either immature kids or occasionally sadder, deeply insecure people. Sure some can cheat as a means of trolling, I'm not denying that, but do you really think 90% of them know you or give a shit about you? Give me a break lmao. What ProTech is talking about is in the view of a streamer. In context to hackers who target streamers, ProTech's point is definitely accurate. In that case it's easy to see that these hackers are trying to troll and get a rise out of streamers. Hence why ProTech's suggestion of not giving that kind of hacker the light of day works. That doesn't work for standard ladder hackers for non-streamers obviously unless you know specifically the person is a hacker. Actually, I have two perspectives from playing SC1 for 12 years, and SC2 for 8 years as a streamer. The concept is basically the same, most of the cheaters I played against in SC1 weren't really out to rank up or get better stats, they were out to simply piss you off. Map hackers know full and well, that the further they progress, the sooner they will get caught. Take the rank #4 gm on NA, he knows anyone with half a brain will catch him cheating, and he also knows that he isn't going to get better at the game. He also knows that he won't be able to compete in WCS, so then what's the point of cheating? To piss you off. I don't agree, IMO they want to demolish the enemy and have free wins. Why do master players lose 50 games in a row to get into the gold league and play the next 40ish games in the easy mode? Why are there smurf accounts which are many leagues bellow of their actual skill? To troll me? Then they shouldn't have the "whispers only from friends" turned on Sure, some want to troll, but in reality most of the cheaters in every game just want to dominate the field and kill all the better players. I would continue in CS - if somebody jumps to the server with a speedhack and an aimbot, they're most probably just trolling, because that's a blatant cheating and the person doesn't try to hide that. But if the person is trying to hide the cheating, it's not trolling anymore, because there's not the trolling part. I was trolling for years on internet forums, trust me, troll needs a reaction from their victims and if you hide the cheating very well you will NOT get the attention troll wants.
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United States32487 Posts
That feeling when the game is so popular that hacks are popular again
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Down with all the hackers, witch hunt style!
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On December 03 2018 08:27 avilo wrote: Let's talk about it? As a community? No more bullshit "avilo calls everyone a hacker no one hacks" no more bullshit "hacks don't exist, it's just avilo's stream and protech whining."
Hey remember that time you repeatedly got beaten by Leenock, who happened to be streaming at the exact same time as you and you repeatedly called him a hacker, as he killed you over and over again with ease?
If you want to help, stay quiet, becuase even if I saw a blatant hack, just seeing your name makes me doubt it.
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On December 03 2018 08:27 avilo wrote: Hacks are massively prevalent since a month ago. It is now at Heart of the Swarm levels of horseshit everyday playing ladder vs these people.
But for some reason this community wants to continue to pretend it's not going on and force blizzard's hand into doing anything about it.
But can they really? If they could they would have already right? They aren't completely oblivious that this is massively happening at the moment - they just simply can't stop it, or don't have the resources or want to put the programmers on it to do anything about it.
Tbh, ever since the game went free to play hacking became way more prevalent.
Let's talk about it? As a community? No more bullshit "avilo calls everyone a hacker no one hacks" no more bullshit "hacks don't exist, it's just avilo's stream and protech whining." That shit needs to stop.
Talk about the problem. Let's get it fixed. I think you have lost your credibility for calling out people. And the hacking is not the only problem SC2 faces as a community
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If Blizzard really wants, they can stop cheating or at least make it much harder to do so. It is as easy as changing where the memory is addressed for units and building every other week.
Since everyone plays ladder must be online, it is not hard to set up a cycle where it changes in such a way that maphack programs will not work. Of course, maphack developer will catch up. But by the time they catch up, just change it again.
It won't eliminate maphacking BUT it will greatly reduce it by making it a pain to always go and download the latest maphacking program.
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On December 03 2018 18:30 deacon.frost wrote:I don't agree, IMO they want to demolish the enemy and have free wins. Why do master players lose 50 games in a row to get into the gold league and play the next 40ish games in the easy mode? Why are there smurf accounts which are many leagues bellow of their actual skill? To troll me? Then they shouldn't have the "whispers only from friends" turned on Sure, some want to troll, but in reality most of the cheaters in every game just want to dominate the field and kill all the better players. I would continue in CS - if somebody jumps to the server with a speedhack and an aimbot, they're most probably just trolling, because that's a blatant cheating and the person doesn't try to hide that. But if the person is trying to hide the cheating, it's not trolling anymore, because there's not the trolling part. I was trolling for years on internet forums, trust me, troll needs a reaction from their victims and if you hide the cheating very well you will NOT get the attention troll wants. The mass throwing of games is a separate issue from the hackers but is also one the needs to be addressed. There needs to be a limit on how fast you start matching again after having a previous match (say, if you match someone, there is a cooldown before you can start matchmaking again unless it classifies you as winning within that cooldown time. If you play a normal game this cooldown doesn't matter. If you throw, you have to wait a couple minutes for the cooldown to reset. If your opponent throws, then you can start matching again immediately) and/or a system in place to check if people are throwing games or not. If someone suddenly is losing 10+ games in a row in well under 10 minutes then something fishy is obviously going on. I recently played someone ranked silver who was playing unranked and is now playing against 5200 MMR master and low GM players and was trolling both games I played against them. I checked their match history and they had thrown what appeared to be over 30 games in a row.
Other games have similar systems in place to prevent people from abusing the matchmaking systems, it isn't unreasonable to have the same expectations for SC2.
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Czech Republic12116 Posts
On December 04 2018 04:39 Ben... wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2018 18:30 deacon.frost wrote:I don't agree, IMO they want to demolish the enemy and have free wins. Why do master players lose 50 games in a row to get into the gold league and play the next 40ish games in the easy mode? Why are there smurf accounts which are many leagues bellow of their actual skill? To troll me? Then they shouldn't have the "whispers only from friends" turned on Sure, some want to troll, but in reality most of the cheaters in every game just want to dominate the field and kill all the better players. I would continue in CS - if somebody jumps to the server with a speedhack and an aimbot, they're most probably just trolling, because that's a blatant cheating and the person doesn't try to hide that. But if the person is trying to hide the cheating, it's not trolling anymore, because there's not the trolling part. I was trolling for years on internet forums, trust me, troll needs a reaction from their victims and if you hide the cheating very well you will NOT get the attention troll wants. The mass throwing of games is a separate issue from the hackers but is also one the needs to be addressed. There needs to be a limit on how fast you start matching again after having a previous match (say, if you match someone, there is a cooldown before you can start matchmaking again unless it classifies you as winning within that cooldown time. If you play a normal game this cooldown doesn't matter. If you throw, you have to wait a couple minutes for the cooldown to reset. If your opponent throws, then you can start matching again immediately) and/or a system in place to check if people are throwing games or not. If someone suddenly is losing 10+ games in a row in well under 10 minutes then something fishy is obviously going on. I recently played someone ranked silver who was playing unranked and is now playing against 5200 MMR master and low GM players and was trolling both games I played against them. I checked their match history and they had thrown what appeared to be over 30 games in a row. Other games have similar systems in place to prevent people from abusing the matchmaking systems, it isn't unreasonable to have the same expectations for SC2. Nah, why limit? Then these players will find a bot which will q them while they're at work(or alt-tabbed or something) and they won't play the game anyway. Take me - I play only unranked. And I don't play mirror games, randoms and barcodes. Sometimes I leave more than 10 games in a row because it's a mirror after mirror spiced with some randoms. I can't do anything about this and if you insist on me having a "cooldown" then do something about me forcing me to play matchups I don;t like. Sure, smurf accounts are bad, but it's a F2P game, you can have many smurf accounts you will play once in a blue moon to keep them on a low level. People will find a way around the system.
There's no real solution to this. Some people will be jerks
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Bottom line is, leaks have confirmed that blizzard employees aren't even making industry standard pay, and it's the main reason why we have so much nonsense in the game
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Czech Republic12116 Posts
On December 04 2018 11:51 ProTech wrote: Bottom line is, leaks have confirmed that blizzard employees aren't even making industry standard pay, and it's the main reason why we have so much nonsense in the game The other part of the leak was, that the high prestige of the company still gets them quality people. This cheating situation is Blizzard don't caring, it's not about quality of the people. Look at Bethesda or Dice last releases...
Don't tell just a half of the leak, tell the whole part of it.
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On December 02 2018 00:44 ggrrg wrote:I am always very sceptical of hacking claims, but given the comments I will make sure to check out the replay. Is it more blatant than this though? + Show Spoiler + AHAHAHAHAHAAHHA "gosu" my arse, interesting video
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On December 03 2018 08:27 avilo wrote: Hacks are massively prevalent since a month ago. It is now at Heart of the Swarm levels of horseshit everyday playing ladder vs these people.
But for some reason this community wants to continue to pretend it's not going on and force blizzard's hand into doing anything about it.
But can they really? If they could they would have already right? They aren't completely oblivious that this is massively happening at the moment - they just simply can't stop it, or don't have the resources or want to put the programmers on it to do anything about it.
Tbh, ever since the game went free to play hacking became way more prevalent.
Let's talk about it? As a community? No more bullshit "avilo calls everyone a hacker no one hacks" no more bullshit "hacks don't exist, it's just avilo's stream and protech whining." That shit needs to stop.
Talk about the problem. Let's get it fixed.
You are the last Person that should call out Hackers. You call out every semi decent move by your Opponent as "Maphack". I even won versus you with my offrace only for you to cry Maphack for 20 Minutesand then analyzing the Replay for another 10 Minutes. Yet you seemed to completly forget that I lost 20 Workers to your first Banshee.
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On December 17 2018 16:50 Railgan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2018 08:27 avilo wrote: Hacks are massively prevalent since a month ago. It is now at Heart of the Swarm levels of horseshit everyday playing ladder vs these people.
But for some reason this community wants to continue to pretend it's not going on and force blizzard's hand into doing anything about it.
But can they really? If they could they would have already right? They aren't completely oblivious that this is massively happening at the moment - they just simply can't stop it, or don't have the resources or want to put the programmers on it to do anything about it.
Tbh, ever since the game went free to play hacking became way more prevalent.
Let's talk about it? As a community? No more bullshit "avilo calls everyone a hacker no one hacks" no more bullshit "hacks don't exist, it's just avilo's stream and protech whining." That shit needs to stop.
Talk about the problem. Let's get it fixed. You are the last Person that should call out Hackers. You call out every semi decent move by your Opponent as "Maphack". I even won versus you with my offrace only for you to cry Maphack for 20 Minutesand then analyzing the Replay for another 10 Minutes. Yet you seemed to completly forget that I lost 20 Workers to your first Banshee.
This does not help our mission.
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On December 17 2018 16:50 Railgan wrote: You are the last Person that should call out Hackers. You call out every semi decent move by your Opponent as "Maphack". I even won versus you with my offrace only for you to cry Maphack for 20 Minutesand then analyzing the Replay for another 10 Minutes. Yet you seemed to completly forget that I lost 20 Workers to your first Banshee. Jeeeeeeez. Is this something personal? Dude, getout please it doesn't help us at all.
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On December 02 2018 03:59 Ben... wrote: Likewise with hatespeech and the like. I've been seeing a loooot of that too. They need to respond faster to reports. i can always just mute my opponent.
i don't mind going back to 1999 where anything and everything goes. if Blizzard takes the money they would've spent on policing things and puts it into the GSL, WCS and making sure the majority of ladder games have good game play that is even better.
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