The way Zest got so completely destroyed by Maru in 2 consecutive GSLs basically overshadows everything he's achieved this year, especially given the fact a lot of people expected much from his PVT on both occasions.
The thing about Zest is that he peaked so high in the past that people can't expect any less from him, thus his GSL silver is considered more of a failure while Stats' GSL silver is considered more of an achievement cuz people expect much less from him.
On October 16 2018 02:49 Zaros wrote: Zest didn't get enough credit for his GSL runs, without Maru maybe he wins back to back GSLs
Mainly because he had relatively easy runs each season. In none of them did he really look like a championship contender. Though it is crazy to think if Maru had slipped up Zest might have won the last two GSL seasons even in his current form.
On October 16 2018 03:06 yht9657 wrote: The thing about Zest is that he peaked so high in the past that people can't expect any less from him, thus his GSL silver is considered more of a failure while Stats' GSL silver is considered more of an achievement cuz people expect much less from him.
It's less about expectations and more about their actual performance I think. Stats beat guys like Classic and soO when they were in ridiculous form, and only lost 4-2 to Maru. Zest made the final partly of bracket luck and lost in one of the most one-sided finals ever.
On October 16 2018 02:49 Zaros wrote: Zest didn't get enough credit for his GSL runs, without Maru maybe he wins back to back GSLs
Mainly because he had relatively easy runs each season. In none of them did he really look like a championship contender. Though it is crazy to think if Maru had slipped up Zest might have won the last two GSL seasons even in his current form.
On October 16 2018 03:06 yht9657 wrote: The thing about Zest is that he peaked so high in the past that people can't expect any less from him, thus his GSL silver is considered more of a failure while Stats' GSL silver is considered more of an achievement cuz people expect much less from him.
It's less about expectations and more about their actual performance I think. Stats beat guys like Classic and soO when they were in ridiculous form, and only lost 4-2 to Maru. Zest made the final partly of bracket luck and lost in one of the most one-sided finals ever.
The bracket luck thing seems silly to me, Zest had as dificult a path as Maru in S3. Parting vs Forte and Leenock in the ro32 probably favour Parting over Forte and Leenock over Parting, in the ro16 Maru faced Neeb and Reynor while Zest faced Leenock and Trap, Marus opponents were slightly better. In the Ro8 Maru faced Gumiho while Zest faced stats who is better than Gumiho.
In Season two ro32 Maru played Zanster and Dear while Zest played Sortof and lost to Trap fairly equal lineups but Zest was very sick so I think we can excuse his loss to Trap. In the RO16 they were in the same group. In the Ro8 Maru had Rogue while Zest had Dear obviously Maru has the better opponent in this round. In the round of 4 Maru had Classic but Zest has TY I would say these are fairly equal opponents.
So overall I would say the bracket luck is about equal to Maru's bracket luck maybe Zest had it slightly better but nothing too significant.
On October 16 2018 02:49 Zaros wrote: Zest didn't get enough credit for his GSL runs, without Maru maybe he wins back to back GSLs
Mainly because he had relatively easy runs each season. In none of them did he really look like a championship contender. Though it is crazy to think if Maru had slipped up Zest might have won the last two GSL seasons even in his current form.
On October 16 2018 03:06 yht9657 wrote: The thing about Zest is that he peaked so high in the past that people can't expect any less from him, thus his GSL silver is considered more of a failure while Stats' GSL silver is considered more of an achievement cuz people expect much less from him.
It's less about expectations and more about their actual performance I think. Stats beat guys like Classic and soO when they were in ridiculous form, and only lost 4-2 to Maru. Zest made the final partly of bracket luck and lost in one of the most one-sided finals ever.
So overall I would say the bracket luck is about equal to Maru's bracket luck maybe Zest had it slightly better but nothing too significant.
Except Maru actually won the season, Zest didn't. You were comparing Zest finals run to Stats. I was saying that Stats is more impressive because he beat better opponents on the way and didn't get completely embarassed when he got there.
Also in season 2 Zest had a waaay easier time making the final than Maru. Maru beat Rogue and Classic, who were considered by everyone to be the #2 and #3 players at the time. Zest had a much easier side of the bracket, Dear is weak in PvP and TY (while strong) wasn't unbeaten in TvP like Classic was.
On October 16 2018 02:49 Zaros wrote: Zest didn't get enough credit for his GSL runs, without Maru maybe he wins back to back GSLs
Mainly because he had relatively easy runs each season. In none of them did he really look like a championship contender. Though it is crazy to think if Maru had slipped up Zest might have won the last two GSL seasons even in his current form.
On October 16 2018 03:06 yht9657 wrote: The thing about Zest is that he peaked so high in the past that people can't expect any less from him, thus his GSL silver is considered more of a failure while Stats' GSL silver is considered more of an achievement cuz people expect much less from him.
It's less about expectations and more about their actual performance I think. Stats beat guys like Classic and soO when they were in ridiculous form, and only lost 4-2 to Maru. Zest made the final partly of bracket luck and lost in one of the most one-sided finals ever.
Funny how it's fine to talk about lucky seeding when it benefits Koreans but not when it catapults Neeb into a ro8 match against a serial GSL choker.
I don't think it's fair to talk about bracket luck that much. There's no doubt that Zest's runs could've been a bit harder but that's how the cookie crumbles and he really did deliver some good results this year.
If we're talking about his actual play though, wow. Boy does he look so sloppy right now. He's always had the macro of a potato during big engagements but his decision making used to be amazing, and now it always seems like his biggest liability. I actually face palm in many of the games Zest plays, whether he wins or loses, it always looks really rough. In many ways, it seems like he overperformed this year given his actual form.
At the same time, Zest was quietly one of the most influential players in terms of the 2018 meta. 2SG phoenix in PvZ really shook up the meta and just the existence of the build is such a huge deal because otherwise Zerg could safely go roaches in every single game. 6 Adept in PvP has also had a big impact on the matchup. I'd say Zest's best games this year were when he introduced some strong meta-influencing new builds, cos he looked surprisingly clean and refined.
Despite being high in points this year, I don't really give Zest a big blizzcon chance, but he seems to do way better than his play would suggest so you can never count him out. He could always pop out some new revolutionary plays and he is always dangerous, no matter how sloppy he looks
In that sense, everything is possible for Zest at BlizzCon. He could drop out in the group stages, but he could also go all the way. That is what makes him truly fascinating. We have no idea what to expect.
Given this quote I can only conclude that the entire writeup for sOs is going to be a long series of question marks.
Like, sOs is looking at least as shaky as he did in 2013 and 2015. Which, I guess means he's going to win?
Not a bad year for Zest, but he is so far from his top form. He usually likes such weekend based tournaments rather he always performs terrible in Blizzcons. I guess he could eventually reach a final depends from other matches and probably some PvP's where anything could happen between top players. I miss the old Zest rather he was not my top favorite toss, but he was the ultimate proof for total dominance and macro play only in specific periods. Only Innovation from this caliber is more constant than Zest. I much prefer Classic's style and play rather Zest is a bit more successful than Classic by trophies. In general, Blizzcon does not belong to many great pro-s in the scene because they are bit of tired and switching to new patches or just taking long rest. Especially protosses. sOs is something entirely different from any other psychology and character, that is why he is unique. Zest, Stats never impressed in november. Classic reached two semi-s untill now, but we'll see. Zest is not a favorite at all but I'd be glad if he can brake the curse and expectations.
Zest had a great year compared to the last, but from the most achieved protoss people still want more. I think he showed great games in GSL pretty nice runs, good consisteny, but the rest of the tournament he wasnt good enough (ok he won masters coliseum).
If it wasnt for his PvZ and Maru, i think he would have had a very sucessful year.
- IEM Pyeongchang: Loses to Elazer (Zerg) - IEM Katowice loses to most zergs in his group, fails to advance - GSL S1 loses to Dark (zerg) - GSL 2,3 loses to Maru - HSC loses to Solar (zerg)
In blizzcon i cant see him beating Serral and/or Maru.
Serral is way too clean for Zest's worst matchup, and Maru's style straight out counters Zest's. Any other opponent i give him at least 50% chance to advance (maybe except Dark).
On October 16 2018 07:46 tennisl wrote: Zest has a shot if he avoids Maru
No way, he could die to so many zergs imo.
He's done a lot of work on the matchup in recent months, it's definitely nowhere near as weak as it used to be. But I'd give any EU zerg a decent chance against KR protoss. They're far more abusive than their KR counterparts and lots of KR protoss don't really get the right practice against their styles.
It's great to see that this article finally has some acknowledgement of the impact that the loss of teamhouses has had in Korea. I totally agree that without the support, love and preparation from teammates, without meal preparation or coaching, most Korean players are in a more difficult environment now.
Maru and JAGW players of course don't have this issue and therefore have a significant advantage, which partly can explain Rogue and Maru's spikes in performance recently.
I certainly hope Zest pulls it out - one of my most favourite players for sure.
On October 16 2018 20:30 Dave4 wrote: Hi! First of all, go Wooki, big fan.
It's great to see that this article finally has some acknowledgement of the impact that the loss of teamhouses has had in Korea. I totally agree that without the support, love and preparation from teammates, without meal preparation or coaching, most Korean players are in a more difficult environment now.
Maru and JAGW players of course don't have this issue and therefore have a significant advantage, which partly can explain Rogue and Maru's spikes in performance recently.
I think you forgot Creator, cure and Trap whom are doing a great job at the moment, especially in online tournaments.