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I have an idea about how and why Starcraft II might be completely different than SC and BW in terms of counters and strategies.
Imagine, if you will, the perspective of the races as if it were in real life. The Terrans in Vanilla StarCraft are sick of their damn marines being all but useless against masses of Zerg mutalisks and hydralisks, so they introduce the medic to make marines actually useful. The Zerg respond by countering with the lurker to take out masses of infantry. The Protoss, on the other hand, need some more deception and mindgame tactics, and bring out the dark templar. Also, they are sick of masses of mutalisks raging havok everywhere, so they bring out corsairs.
So basically, that is the transition from vanilla to bw. Now think about lingering weaknesses of each race, and what is going to happen for SCII.
Protoss: -Tanks own goons and terrans love tanks, so introduce a super sheild around goons and call them immortals... now zealots aren't the best counter to tanks aside from air. -Vultures play hit and run to kill zealots like nothing, so introduce a new ability for zealots to chase them down. Also an improvement for fighting lings. -Protoss get harassed like crazy, such as tanks and lurkers on cliffs. Now they have stalkers which can warp up cliffs, given vision, and colossi, which can have a great time frying cliffs. -Ultraling is a nightmare. Colossi do the job of a reaver, but don't require the nearly-impossible attention to detail and luck that a reaver requires. This way zealot / Colossi should be a viable counter to ultraling.
Terran: -Infantry just can't stand up to well-controlled dragoons and/or storm... so reapers should do a nice job to work as a quick and hard-hitting unit against these type of enemies. -not much else is known
Zerg: -... not much is known, except banelings counter zealots and colossi.
I think based off of this assumption, we might be able to predict what kind of units will be introduced into SCII. What do you guys think?
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I think there have been a billion threads like this and that they should stop.
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lol, it's only three days after any information has been released and most people are still very excited about it. Chill out, if you don't enjoy speculating then avoid the SCII forum =]
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I love threads like this, screw all u haters. I don't think many people have realized that they have showed only some of the new protoss units/abilities.. Just think how awesome the new zerg and terran units will be! Each race will now have a super unit like the protoss mothership, what will the T and Z equivalent be? A huge flying overmind? A command centre with an ion cannon? I can't wait..
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Oh and i don't even play sc anymore, i quit about 4 years ago.
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I actually really hope that protoss is the only race with a super unit... that would make the races more diverse.
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On May 21 2007 22:32 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: Imagine, if you will, the perspective of the races as if it were in real life. The Terrans in Vanilla StarCraft are sick of their damn marines being all but useless against masses of Zerg mutalisks and hydralisks, so they introduce the medic to make marines actually useful. The Zerg respond by countering with the lurker to take out masses of infantry. The Protoss, on the other hand, need some more deception and mindgame tactics, and bring out the dark templar. Also, they are sick of masses of mutalisks raging havok everywhere, so they bring out corsairs.
Interestingly enough, the reasons for these new units are brought out fairly well in the storyline. UED involvement, the continuing mutations and new strains in the Zerg, and a deeper look into Protoss' dark and ancient history. To say that the Protoss enlisted the Corsairs because they are "sick of masses of mutalisks" is pretty stupid.
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On May 21 2007 23:07 SproutBoy wrote: I love threads like this, screw all u haters. I don't think many people have realized that they have showed only some of the new protoss units/abilities.. Just think how awesome the new zerg and terran units will be! Each race will now have a super unit like the protoss mothership, what will the T and Z equivalent be? A huge flying overmind? A command centre with an ion cannon? I can't wait..
On May 21 2007 23:13 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: I actually really hope that protoss is the only race with a super unit... that would make the races more diverse.
Read the articles around; its said that Protoss will be the only one with such a super-unit, which means to say that Terran and Zerg will have appropriate countermeasures available to them.
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On May 21 2007 23:18 useless wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2007 22:32 AcrossFiveJulys wrote: Imagine, if you will, the perspective of the races as if it were in real life. The Terrans in Vanilla StarCraft are sick of their damn marines being all but useless against masses of Zerg mutalisks and hydralisks, so they introduce the medic to make marines actually useful. The Zerg respond by countering with the lurker to take out masses of infantry. The Protoss, on the other hand, need some more deception and mindgame tactics, and bring out the dark templar. Also, they are sick of masses of mutalisks raging havok everywhere, so they bring out corsairs.
Interestingly enough, the reasons for these new units are brought out fairly well in the storyline. UED involvement, the continuing mutations and new strains in the Zerg, and a deeper look into Protoss' dark and ancient history. To say that the Protoss enlisted the Corsairs because they are "sick of masses of mutalisks" is pretty stupid.
Yeah, I'm well aware that there is a storyline behind where the new units came from. However, everyone knows that corsairs are almost entirely used to take out mutalisks or in rare instances fleets of wraiths if the terran chooses to build them. All I'm saying is that SCII might take the approach of countering many units' weaknesses by improving them or replacing them. In this way, the game would be blown wide open and people would have to figure out entirely new strategies. Based on this assumption, we might be able to figure out what kind of units we might be able to expect in SCII. For example:
-A really large problem terran had against zerg in bw is taking out fleets of mutalisks using a versatile air unit. The valkarie just didn't cut it, as it stopped firing alot of the time, had quite a bit of prerequisite buildings, and could basically only be used to take on mutalisks and hunt overlords-- not too useful when the zerg decided to switch to lurkers or something. Maybe we will see a new air unit or a usable version of the valkrarie for terran.
-Since protoss loses the dragoon, will they be completely screwed in ground vs air? So far we haven't seen evidence that stalkers or immortals can attack air. So either 1) stalkers or immortals are reasonably effective against air or 2) there is another non-air unit we haven't been introduced to yet.
-Burrowed zerg units just weren't THAT useful in broodwar (save lurkers of course), so we might see some kind of change to that. Think about how vulnerable zerg is early game against terran... I bet there are alot of zergs out there who are tired of buiding at least 4 sunks to defend against the initial m&m from terran. One idea I think might be interesting is for banelings to burrow and act as mines, so when they are directly stepped on they explode. How annoying would that be? Even worse than spider mines in some cases. Could act as a sort of static defense in the beginning to avoid said massing sunkens against terran.
-The terran ability to lift buildings is useful but not neccessarily heavily used in gameplay. Sure, there are strategies to lift a CC to islands quickly on certain maps, and people often build their CC in thier main base to protect it while they are expanding, not to mention the famous wall involves lifting/landing a barracks, but it seems to me like there could be so many other uses. What if the CC could carry 4 scvs, so it could land and immediately start a base? That seems to appeal to the nomadic nature of the terran and help to overcome the terran weakness of being so static.
Little tricks like building walls for terran have shaped the game as we know it today, and that is alot of what makes bw so appealing and have such a high skill curve. In my opinion, everything should be massively changed, i.e. each race fixes some previous weaknesses from bw but has new vulnerabilities. That way, little tricks would come about that Blizzard will never expect, even with the massive testing they are sure to do.
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On May 22 2007 00:34 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
-Since protoss loses the dragoon, will they be completely screwed in ground vs air? So far we haven't seen evidence that stalkers or immortals can attack air. So either 1) stalkers or immortals are reasonably effective against air or 2) there is another non-air unit we haven't been introduced to yet. .
Actualy if you watch the gameplay video you see that Stalkers have two different attacks, propebly one vs air and one vs ground. I think stalkers might work nice vs fast airunits, able to teleport after them when they try to hit and run harass.
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