Anyway the story makes me cringe a bit. BW was not amazing but at least I did not have to harbor this vague sense of embarrassment all the time.
First mission of StarCraft 2: Legacy of the Void - Page 2
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levelping
Singapore759 Posts
Anyway the story makes me cringe a bit. BW was not amazing but at least I did not have to harbor this vague sense of embarrassment all the time. | ||
Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
On October 17 2015 18:47 WrathSCII wrote: 1. True, but if they wanted to punish him for that, why wait till SC2 and not in BW? Even though that does not make any sense if you think about it. Even if he did not slay Zazs, Overmind would eventually find Aiur, Zeratul is the one that taught Tassadar how to use Dark Templar energy and with it killed the overmind later. Zeratul is the one that brought Khalai survivors to Shakuris and helped them establish there and live with the Dark Templar. 2. True, I hope they use this as a reason because it is the most logical reason to accuse him for anything. Though he was limited on options. Either she lives as a slave or dies. He can be judged for treason but no reason for this "hate" he is getting. (Look at the way Selndies address him with such rudeness and despise). 3. As I said before, that is completely illogical because the only Daleem Protoss saw Kerrigan post-WoL all died without sending any signal to Shakuris as was explained in HotS. So logically they should have 0 info about Kerrigan to begin with. im just guessing, (maybe the answer might be in one of those starcraft novels) but basically i thought it was becasue the protoss were really busy with trying to get back on their feet and the main person thats been causing them all these trouble is kerrigan, she like tricks them all into pesudo following her until she backstabs them killing fenix again her crimes seem to be more pronounced cause even tho zeratul lead the zerg to auir its under the overmind's control that does the actual killing (plus kerrigan being his like 1st in command and later leader). Plus dont the protoss of auir really hate dark templers to the point where they're super outcasts and ignored. (hes probably been second priotery for a while with kerrigan/zerg being the first, plus its not like they think hes on kerrigan's side, just a failure in their eyes) also might just be that government stuff is slow ![]() | ||
Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
On October 17 2015 16:37 hymn wrote: Guys, guys, games have crappy stories, game story makers are not good writers. If you want a good story, read a book. If you want good gameplay, you play games. It's that simple. It's really not that simple. The mediums themselves makes the comparison of execution within books and games a tenuous one at best... Additionally, what you say is not an excuse for a multi-billion dollar industry anymore, mostly because they hire writers to do this stuff. Games can have good stories, and its not hard to write "good stories" in the medium (though what you would conceive of as a good story is kind of grey), so trying to downplay writing in a game that has a dramatic narrative just "because its a game" is pretty myopic honestly. | ||
Wrath
3174 Posts
On October 17 2015 20:58 Shock710 wrote: im just guessing, (maybe the answer might be in one of those starcraft novels) but basically i thought it was becasue the protoss were really busy with trying to get back on their feet and the main person thats been causing them all these trouble is kerrigan, she like tricks them all into pesudo following her until she backstabs them killing fenix again her crimes seem to be more pronounced cause even tho zeratul lead the zerg to auir its under the overmind's control that does the actual killing (plus kerrigan being his like 1st in command and later leader). Plus dont the protoss of auir really hate dark templers to the point where they're super outcasts and ignored. (hes probably been second priotery for a while with kerrigan/zerg being the first, plus its not like they think hes on kerrigan's side, just a failure in their eyes) also might just be that government stuff is slow ![]() Sorry, but this makes 0 logic. If they were "busy" why then let him take command in all the operations during BW? At least suspend him and let Artanis / Aldaris / Matriarch do the stuff. He was like a General, if it is because Zasz incident, he should have been suspended till everything is settled. And about Khalai Protoss hating the Dark Templar. The Khalai "REFUGEES" went to Dark Templars to take shelter from the zerg and live together. What kind of a refugee that comes to live with you and then decides to execute you? That is really a shitty refugee that should not have been taken in the first place. | ||
eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
To be fair, I won the first WoL mission on the easiest difficulty with a single attack move to the end. | ||
Shock710
Australia6097 Posts
On October 17 2015 21:42 WrathSCII wrote: Sorry, but this makes 0 logic. If they were "busy" why then let him take command in all the operations during BW? At least suspend him and let Artanis / Aldaris / Matriarch do the stuff. He was like a General, if it is because Zasz incident, he should have been suspended till everything is settled. And about Khalai Protoss hating the Dark Templar. The Khalai "REFUGEES" went to Dark Templars to take shelter from the zerg and live together. What kind of a refugee that comes to live with you and then decides to execute you? That is really a shitty refugee that should not have been taken in the first place. well they werent really actively searching for him maybe it was on the to do list and then he just appeared infront of them and they were like okay cool this makes things easier lol. As for the templar taking refugee, they kinda had to i doubt many would have changed their opinion on the dark templar but at that point they might have been undecided about him and if he wants to go do "mission" stuff might as well let him (afterall he did just take u in, accepted but u dont have to like them) and then idk some time along the road they decided u know what fuck zeratul/ we need someone to blame and zeratul is pretty easy to point to. idk protoss politics but people change their minds all the time. Either way i could see it happening in some random way or another i dont think its implausible they decided to hate on him, plus maybe they thought when he was actively fighting the zerg and in view of the conclave it was okay but when he decided to run and look for "answers" without telling them they misunderstood and thought he was running from judgement (dishonorable yada yada stuff) | ||
404AlphaSquad
839 Posts
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wjat
385 Posts
On October 17 2015 16:37 hymn wrote: Guys, guys, games have crappy stories, game story makers are not good writers. If you want a good story, read a book. If you want good gameplay, you play games. It's that simple. I've never stumbled upon a game with a story that's engaging like a good book. If someone says he has, tell them to read a novel like The great Gatsby and to tell again if the game story is better. I'm sorry bro but I played Ocarina of Time on my freaking Nintendo 64 =^.^= | ||
GiveMeCake
148 Posts
the smoke effects when zera appears in the cinematic the tile set of auir (so nice) the mutas flying over head being chased by phoenix otherwise it was disappointing, but again, only the first mission, there's still hope. | ||
Starecat
937 Posts
On October 17 2015 16:37 hymn wrote: Guys, guys, games have crappy stories, game story makers are not good writers. If you want a good story, read a book. If you want good gameplay, you play games. It's that simple. I've never stumbled upon a game with a story that's engaging like a good book. If someone says he has, tell them to read a novel like The great Gatsby and to tell again if the game story is better. Books are automatically better than games? Explain to me how Twilight is better than Xenogears. | ||
Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
On October 17 2015 16:09 WrathSCII wrote: I still do not understand why they accuse Zeratul for treason.... Because Blizzard is terrible at writing. There isn't a good reason for them to accuse him of treason. Exactly this, Seldnies said that it was because his interferance brought war to Aiur. But shouldn't they judge on him that much earlier? Like post SC1 and pre BW or something? Or even during BW? But they pretty did not care about that during BW at all. So why all of sudden. At least if they said because he murdered the matriarch that would have some meaning. But because slaying Zas and the overmind knew the location of Aiur is rather stupid... Not only was the Overmind trying to get to Aiur anyway (he would have undoubtedly gotten there eventually), but how the hell was Zeratul supposed to know that the mind link-thing was going to happen? For that matter, how the hell does everyone else know? Still a terrible excuse. | ||
Starecat
937 Posts
10/10. | ||
Endymion
United States3701 Posts
On October 17 2015 23:40 Starecat wrote: Books are automatically better than games? Explain to me how Twilight is better than Xenogears. twilight is actually an interesting book from a lot of different perspectives, idk why people slander it 24/7.. the movies are mostly over sexualized trash, but the books (at least the first two) are well written and they cater to their audiences without dumbing down everything like the movies do. i have never played xenogears so idk if it's better, but using twilight as an example of an objectively bad book in your statement isn't accurate | ||
Khalum
Austria831 Posts
On October 17 2015 23:54 Endymion wrote: twilight is actually an interesting book from a lot of different perspectives, idk why people slander it 24/7.. the movies are mostly over sexualized trash, but the books (at least the first two) are well written and they cater to their audiences without dumbing down everything like the movies do. i have never played xenogears so idk if it's better, but using twilight as an example of an objectively bad book in your statement isn't accurate [offtopic] + Show Spoiler + I find it very amusing in this context that your name is Endymion. Idk if you know the Hyperion books, which are truly amazing. The sequels were abyssmal and called .. Endymion. | ||
Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
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gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
Whats more one has to consider the emotional background here, the protoss are about to rethink their fucking home world, this is their Jerusalem many times over and humanity has done quite a bit in pursuit of that shit dessert city. This a gorgeous habitable world that also happens to be the center of all protoss culture, and now the motherfucker who (albeit inadvertently) was responsible for the original route of aiur shows up and says "nah brah, this isn't a big deal, lets go do something else." Couple that with the natural hatred of the nerazhim (dank brotars) and the fact that zeri outright helped kerrigan, was then allowed to fucking live by kerrigan, and then was nowhere to be found in the eventual final battle vs kerrigan (disastrous clash at the end of bw) you have a severe recipe for distrust. Then the ol mafia concept comes into play, wherein if accusations arise and your not their to confront them, suspicions become condemnations. So yeah, him fucking off to do mystical mediv shit (and literally mope as the books have it) must not have helped his cause. WHATS MOAR, if you look in the crowd you'll see exactly zero dark templar / : basically there's only one person here who wouldn't immediately feel kinda shitty about an infamous dt warping into hq, and that person is Artanis, who by the way, is actually quite reasonable about the whole thing. Specifically, Zeratul doesn't tell artanis this is a trap, only that they got better shit to do. Artanis views Aiur as the lynch pin of protoss unity, there is nothing at the moment more important to him than its reclamation and subsequent role in the unifying of the toss. To him its not so much a matter of is Zeri right, but more so just Aiur>Amon, which according to the lore video reclamation, you can blame on that rambo zealot. Any moar questions anyone : P | ||
Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On October 17 2015 20:33 Endymion wrote: i have been people fail the WoL starting mission on normal difficulty When you sit someone who has not played an RTS before in front of the game. And he sees his army--he does not want to lose a single fucking guy. He will slow play and use only small amounts of troops, retreating damaged ones, and reinforcing with the full health ones. Only people who understand RTS games already know that you can sometimes just deathball the fuck out of opponent. Unless they actually make a realistic campaign where you have a finite amount of resources to finish the campaign and you being wasteful in any one mission makes all preceding missions more difficult. But that's a different discussion. | ||
Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
On October 18 2015 01:48 gumshoe wrote: its not particularly unreasonable for the toss to be mad at zera / : considering the toss themselves aren't reasonable XD we've actually been through this whole thing before with Tassadar, and before you say "well tassadars crime was legit as opposed to zeras" remember, they only came after Tassadar after his attempt to kill a cerebrate failed / : not when he specifically committed his crime. Whats more one has to consider the emotional background here, the protoss are about to rethink their fucking home world, this is their Jerusalem many times over and humanity has done quite a bit in pursuit of that shit dessert city. This a gorgeous habitable world that also happens to be the center of all protoss culture, and now the motherfucker who (albeit inadvertently) was responsible for the original route of aiur shows up and says "nah brah, this isn't a big deal, lets go do something else." Couple that with the natural hatred of the nerazhim (dank brotars) and the fact that zeri outright helped kerrigan, was then allowed to fucking live by kerrigan, and then was nowhere to be found in the eventual final battle vs kerrigan (disastrous clash at the end of bw) you have a severe recipe for distrust. Then the ol mafia concept comes into play, wherein if accusations arise and your not their to confront them, suspicions become condemnations. So yeah, him fucking off to do mystical mediv shit (and literally mope as the books have it) must not have helped his cause. WHATS MOAR, if you look in the crowd you'll see exactly zero dark templar / : basically there's only one person here who wouldn't immediately feel kinda shitty about an infamous dt warping into hq, and that person is Artanis, who by the way, is actually quite reasonable about the whole thing. Specifically, Zeratul doesn't tell artanis this is a trap, only that they got better shit to do. Artanis views Aiur as the lynch pin of protoss unity, there is nothing at the moment more important to him than its reclamation and subsequent role in the unifying of the toss. To him its not so much a matter of is Zeri right, but more so just Aiur>Amon, which according to the lore video reclamation, you can blame on that rambo zealot. Any moar questions anyone : P Artanis idolized Tassa and Zera, he has only the deepest respect for them, and would listen well to what they had to say. Artanis helped Kerri in BW as much as Zera did, and I have no doubt would have agreed with killing the Overmind if it meant bringing Razagal back. If Tassadar was willing to forgive Zera for Zasz the rest of the protoss have no right to be angry. Furthermore how could Zera help Arty v Kerri on the Space Platform? He was lost and he and Arty had no idea where each other where. The only thing that Zera can be even a little blamed for is killing Raza but I have no doubt Mohandar will prevent the Nerazim from killing Zera in revenge. The only person I am unsure of is Vorazun, her opinion on the matter is paramount (but I digress). Selendis is clearly aware of the event of the Invasion of Aiur (her deep respect for Raynor) therefore she should know better than to hate Zera. I think they can understand that Kerri is twisted enough to let Zera live for the reasons she mentioned in The Reckoning, and therefore they can only maybe blame Zera for Primal Kerri but they shouldn't know about that. Not to mention the similarities between Zera and Tassa right now are way too insane. | ||
deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
No matter if he is guilty, he feels that he did bad things(mostly killing Raszagal IMO). So we can all guess why THEY did it when it is possible they are acting on Zeratuls wish. I am saving the prologue for November 9, so not exactly sure what is happening, just reminding a thing from HotS ![]() | ||
gumshoe
Canada3602 Posts
On October 18 2015 03:26 Cricketer12 wrote: Artanis idolized Tassa and Zera, he has only the deepest respect for them, and would listen well to what they had to say. Artanis helped Kerri in BW as much as Zera did, and I have no doubt would have agreed with killing the Overmind if it meant bringing Razagal back. If Tassadar was willing to forgive Zera for Zasz the rest of the protoss have no right to be angry. Furthermore how could Zera help Arty v Kerri on the Space Platform? He was lost and he and Arty had no idea where each other where. The only thing that Zera can be even a little blamed for is killing Raza but I have no doubt Mohandar will prevent the Nerazim from killing Zera in revenge. The only person I am unsure of is Vorazun, her opinion on the matter is paramount (but I digress). Selendis is clearly aware of the event of the Invasion of Aiur (her deep respect for Raynor) therefore she should know better than to hate Zera. I think they can understand that Kerri is twisted enough to let Zera live for the reasons she mentioned in The Reckoning, and therefore they can only maybe blame Zera for Primal Kerri but they shouldn't know about that. Not to mention the similarities between Zera and Tassa right now are way too insane. Artanis does idolize zera, thats why hes reasonable / : but all those events you mentioned, you assume the toss have definitive knowledge of what happened, all that really occured was zeratul took off with some dts after raz, then the overmind died, suggesting said dts aided kerri. All dem dts then were massacred, with the exception of zeri and zeri never came back / : despite all that you can clearly hear arti is giving zeri the benefit of the doubt, hes just not willing to call off the entire invasion because of zeris super duper vague request (there is evil and stuff over there, pwease) As for Seli, she doesnt have much char / : we can just consider her a hardcore sarah palin esque protoss conservative with a dash of racism (were there any dts in her wings mission btw?) So ultimately whether you have a problem with what happened in the cutscene boils down to two reactions. 1: would artanis give up on the hope of an aiur for all toss cause Zeri shows up after years of dodging/mopping and has misgivings? 2: would a hardcore khala toss be pissed at a dt with a shitty past for said shitty past and attempting to thwart THE GREAT RECLAMATION. Seems reasonable to me / : but like I said, the toss aint that reasonable XD so they dont have to be totally logical in thier accusations "HERESY" was always a pretty big flaw of the toss / : | ||
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