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Watching some pro games, I've seen some of players spawn up a creep tumor right as their first queen pops up, some wait till their second queen pops up, or they'll get a third queen on one of their two bases and use that solely for creep tumors.
Here is my question, what do you think is the best way to start your creep spread?
There are many ways I have gone through this and I still have not come up with what works for me. When I spread creep, it's random. I'll use overlords to connect my bases, i'll end up having 25 extra energy on my queens and use that for a tumor and start the spread from there, or i've even used a third queen and used that for multiple creep tumors to start the spread and waited until i got my third base before using that queen for my third base to inject larva. (i still have not kept a queen up solely for transfusion, i still have not once used transfusion even though i know it is a VERY useful ability)
What is your take on this subject?
If it makes any difference, I am a Gold League Zerg Player.
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Im not sure if zergs can even use all the larva a queen can give out that early. So I think the one creep tumor is a good idea.
If they can use them all then inject is better
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When I go 15hat/16pool, my first two queens finish at the same time and I'll have extra energy so I usually start 2 tumors right away. Otherwise I'll wait for the 3rd queen.
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depends really upon what your opener is for your BO. If you FE 14-15 hatch with 2 queens simultaneously probably better to use the one in your main for a creep tumor and the 2nd for larva. Just because if you double inject no way you will have the minerals or usually supply room to use all the larva efficiently in time. Plus you have to take into account how early gas you go which means less minerals etc etc etc.
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When I go hatch first , and I spawn 2 queens at once , I inject with my queen at the nat and lay a creep tumor in my main with the other. If you go double creep tumor , you wont be able to spend all your minerals
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If I go for 15hatch/15pool etc kind of opening I tend to put my tumor first so I can try to hold possible fast early attacks better. However if I open with 11 pool I favor larva so I can catch up with eco fast.
This is just my way to play it and I've been satisfied with it.
Dia Zerg here.
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If I go pool first, I get my first creep tumour when the second queen pops up to connect the main and nat.
If I hatch first, generally I use my first 25 energy to get creep tumours.
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when I FE, my expo finishes I get the queen at my expo to larva inject, and the queen from main to spawn creep.
that way the creep connects the two bases, and can then start heading out.
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It depends, if you go the 15 hatch double queen, then I usuallly lay down a creep tumor in the main. If you feel like you can make 100% pure drones however, then an inject will allow you for some quicker drones, even though you can't spend ALL your larvae. When I have a good amount of drones, say 30, I make a third queen.
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If you're doing 15 hatch, I like to use the main hatch queen for a tumor and the nat to inject. 14/14 you need to inject first and make a second queen and use that for creep tumors. Generally you want a third queen somewhere in there if you're doing a low gas build.
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as far as i know when you 15 hatch you can't spend all the larvae after the first inject, so i have seen people(and tried myself for a while) plop down a tumor to start some rad spread. day9's recent daily touches on the use of queens for injects and it's a good watch.
since you're an up and coming player, i'd concentrate on making full use of your first two queens first to get you used to maximizing their use all game long---aka keeping energy as low as you can throughout the game.
what i end up doing when i'm faced with some problems in a game (a drop or needing to scout unit comp. for example) is try and plant a macro hatchery in my main so missing injects is more forgiving.
i'd say, whenever you glance over your hatcheries and queens and notice they're piling up on extra energy, send them out to tumor at the edges, and queue-move them back to the hatch.
but devoting your entire early game, each and every game, to creep tumors isn't more important than learning to nail the injects imo. there are certain builds and situations that you'll scout which call for an earlier tumor, or an earlier inject than you would want....like say, when you scout a reactor hellion opening
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15 hatch double queen ---> 2 tumors first
14gas/14pool ---> inject first
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Depends on your build. If you have the money to spend on larva, inject. If you are broke and have no money then make a creep tumor.
All about economic management.
^_^
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This is all dependent on build orders. Opening up speedlings, I'll put a creep tumor down once my second queen pops out. Opening up 15 hatch, both queens spawn at the same time, so I will use my main queen to put down a creep tumor to connect to my expo with creep. The only reason you put up creep tumors down in your base is to make it easier to defend against harassment. If, you dont scout hellions for example, you dont need to connect your bases with creep. It is very situational.
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Dude, this is easy, Mule unless you're supply blocked.
Oh wait--this is a zerg thread!
Inject unless your mineral timing has it so you can't afford the larva.
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On September 15 2011 15:44 lorkac wrote:
Dude, this is easy, Mule unless you're supply blocked.
Oh wait--this is a zerg thread!
Inject unless your mineral timing has it so you can't afford the larva.
This isn't correct at all. You must have misread his question. He is asking about early game creep spread. You usually want to connect you Nat and your main with creep once you second queen spawns in order to be able to defend against harassment. Mineral timings have nothing to do with this because zergs will always have money to spend on their larva. The only time a zerg cant use all his larva is in the Mid/Late game when he has 4+ hatches.
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It kinda comes down to the tightness of your play. My advice is to start with something simple that makes sense and make adjustments as you see fit. Play some games with creep tumor first, and if you don't have enough larva then you can change it.
That isn't to say that you can't take some of the excellent advice others here have said. I think some people were talking about 15 hatch and using the natural queen to inject while using the main queen to tumor, and this makes sense as dual injects is probably a lot of larva for that time.
I'm not sure about the 14gas 14 pool. I think it makes sense to use the tumor first because you will be spending money on an early upgrade and a hatchery, and I'm not sure but I think some players start their second queen before their natural hatch finishes, so all that is a lot of resources spent without using larva.
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I usually go tumor first, because in my builds, I don't have enough money to support the larvae ~75% of the time. It really does depend on the build order though - the particular expansion timing I use isn't particularly mineral efficient compared to say 15hatch 14pool, but it's pretty larva efficient, so I figure "sac some larva that would otherwise be going to waste so I could connect my main to my nat."
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If I do an early hatch like 14 hatch 14 pool, I always tumor with my first queen at least.
If I do 11 overpool, whether I inject or not depends on whether my hatch goes down on time. If it goes down at 18, then that mineral drain is far too much to make units out of the larvae I would get from an inject. However if it is like zvz, where you don't expand immediately, I spend the inject. You'll have 300 minerals extra to blow on units, afterall.
I would imagine a 14 pool is similar, but then again the queen comes 25 seconds later than 11 pool, so maybe that is enough to make inject first worth it. That certainly seems to be the consensus among players better than me.
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The larva vs creep spread is much depending on how you are going to use yout tactic. If I go a econ build 15/15/15, I always spawn larva with my double queen. This is because I am to much at a dissadvantag if I am subjected to an early rush. I simply need the larva to produce units if I find that marines are coming to my nat or suddenly a bunch of lings or roaches come crashing down. A CT would spell death since I would not have larva to spawn an additional say 8 lings to my defense.
If you also time the 15x3 you should have speed on your lings right about finished when a more heavy push comes so creep is not that big of a deal then. However...
If you are going for a super economic build and place one spine instead of lings and try to defend with queens, then I will always throw down a CT in my main. Since the spine is at your nat you will have to defend with drones and your two or three queens. Queens need that creep, it is littarly a life or death situation that they can not get to the other base in time or get sniped when not teamed together. I would say that if you are going for a slow ling build or 3+ queen opener, then a CT is a must, otherwise I would only use larva inject as my first action for my queens.
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EPT
